We know that EMU has hired assistant coaches from Div I programs going back as far?! And we know how that approach has worked on at EMU. It hasn't.

That's why some posters have suggested a different approach for this upcoming coaching vacancy-Div II or FCS coach.

What I meant by transparent it that needs to be free from bias. Many EMU fans thought Carr's involvement was skewed naturally to U of M people and by doing so this excluded perhaps others from consideration.

(10-30-2013 08:17 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We know that EMU has hired assistant coaches from Div I programs going back as far?! And we know how that approach has worked on at EMU. It hasn't.

That's why some posters have suggested a different approach for this upcoming coaching vacancy-Div II or FCS coach.

What I meant by transparent it that needs to be free from bias. Many EMU fans thought Carr's involvement was skewed naturally to U of M people and by doing so this excluded perhaps others from consideration.

The kind of bias that you talk about with Lloyd Carr is next to impossible and not undesirable. Carr was in coaching for something like 30 years. Who would better recognize a good coach? And first hand experience with the applicant is better than a reputation.

That it hasn't worked out with Coach English is not proof that the search process was flawed or even that he was a bad selection. A lot of things need to come together for this program and they didn't.

This is a tough job. Let's remember that.

(10-30-2013 11:45 AM)ljmhurons Wrote:  

(10-30-2013 08:17 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We know that EMU has hired assistant coaches from Div I programs going back as far?! And we know how that approach has worked on at EMU. It hasn't.

That's why some posters have suggested a different approach for this upcoming coaching vacancy-Div II or FCS coach.

What I meant by transparent it that needs to be free from bias. Many EMU fans thought Carr's involvement was skewed naturally to U of M people and by doing so this excluded perhaps others from consideration.

The kind of bias that you talk about with Lloyd Carr is next to impossible and not undesirable. Carr was in coaching for something like 30 years. Who would better recognize a good coach? And first hand experience with the applicant is better than a reputation.

That it hasn't worked out with Coach English is not proof that the search process was flawed or even that he was a bad selection. A lot of things need to come together for this program and they didn't.

This is a tough job. Let's remember that.

The fact is that EMU does not and has not come up with the silver bullet for finding the next Urban Meyer. It isn't like we have a success strategy which worked in the past which we abandoned...

And as I probably posted earlier in this thread, AD Diles wanted Brian Kelly and had a deal worked out with him until some folks got to his (BK's) ear and told him that EMU FB didn't have a track record of success. He was set to be announced and the presser was canceled as he decided to go to CMU.

Also IF we identify the next Urban Meyer, there might be multiple schools, with better tradition, and more $ seeking him.

That is why speculating on coaching candidates is, by definition, limited by tunnel vision. We aren't operating in a vacuum.

There could be say a dozen schools seeking new coaches in a month.

Well lets start with this? How much are we paying English?
What kind of coach could we afford to hire for the same salary? ie an Ohio State Assistant? a rising FCS a Division II coach?

Can EMU afford (or not afford) to pay more to bring the type of coach that would be able to turn the program around?

And while the money angle is important there's always the point that someone what the chance to be head coach, yes there are or could be lots of vacancies but there are a limited number of Div I schools.

In terms of Lloyd Carr, I have nothing but respect for him as a coach and a person. However if you go back and look at the names thrown around when Genyk was non renewed most of them had a U of M background. Maybe that was accidental maybe not.

English is paid 420,000 plus incentives.

My question was not answered, would you guys be opened to having Jim Tressel as a coach at EMU?

Dear Pudge,
In my opinion, No. Too much baggage, and we couldn't pay him enough to begin with. The only way I would accept him as coach, would be to have him sign a contract that stipulated any wrong doing of any kind, would be cause for immediate firing, and no payoff with that firing.

(10-30-2013 01:22 PM)NUPudge Wrote:  My question was not answered, would you guys be opened to having Jim Tressel as a coach at EMU?

Hell to the No. Which is fine because he would not be open to EMU either.

(10-30-2013 01:46 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Pudge,
In my opinion, No. Too much baggage, and we couldn't pay him enough to begin with. The only way I would accept him as coach, would be to have him sign a contract that stipulated any wrong doing of any kind, would be cause for immediate firing, and no payoff with that firing.

Yeah, Lyke also probably spent considerable time cleaning up his mess, and I would assume knows more about him than she care to know.

(10-30-2013 12:47 PM)emu79 Wrote:  Well lets start with this? How much are we paying English?
What kind of coach could we afford to hire for the same salary? ie an Ohio State Assistant? a rising FCS a Division II coach?

Can EMU afford (or not afford) to pay more to bring the type of coach that would be able to turn the program around?

And while the money angle is important there's always the point that someone what the chance to be head coach, yes there are or could be lots of vacancies but there are a limited number of Div I schools.

In terms of Lloyd Carr, I have nothing but respect for him as a coach and a person. However if you go back and look at the names thrown around when Genyk was non renewed most of them had a U of M background. Maybe that was accidental maybe not.

I think EMU wanted English and used Carr just to seal the deal. Heck, a lot of us were excited when RE came to EMU.

EMU needs to find a good D2 or FCS head coach that has a track record of building a program. I really think that it needs to be a guy that is very innovative. A conventionally thinking coach will only get us...well...where we are right now.

Even if the money is not great by major BCS standards, if a guy proves himself at EMU then he'll get a shot at the next stpe up. Remember, only 2 years ago RE was the MAC coach of the year and was rumored to be headed to ASU.

The big question is what kind of involvement will the regents have? - hopefully Stapleton stays out of it this time.

(10-30-2013 07:39 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(10-30-2013 12:47 PM)emu79 Wrote:  Well lets start with this? How much are we paying English?
What kind of coach could we afford to hire for the same salary? ie an Ohio State Assistant? a rising FCS a Division II coach?

Can EMU afford (or not afford) to pay more to bring the type of coach that would be able to turn the program around?

And while the money angle is important there's always the point that someone what the chance to be head coach, yes there are or could be lots of vacancies but there are a limited number of Div I schools.

In terms of Lloyd Carr, I have nothing but respect for him as a coach and a person. However if you go back and look at the names thrown around when Genyk was non renewed most of them had a U of M background. Maybe that was accidental maybe not.

I think EMU wanted English and used Carr just to seal the deal. Heck, a lot of us were excited when RE came to EMU.

I agree. I'd think English was the man from day one.

This isn't like civil servant hiring where, at least in the old days, there were cert lists and a supervisor would hire from that list.

In EMU's case if the AD finds someone he likes, e.g., Brian Kelly (about 10 years ago) or English (5 years ago) then the process is to get that candidate hired.

I doubt a position coach had a chance vs. a DC who had been at UofM and L'ville.

As a tangent note, I doubt we'll ever get another OC or DC again from a BCS/Playoff conference school.

Normally the good coordinators are making too much for EMU.

This means a position coach or a FCS or D-II HC would almost certainly be the next hire.

I think any MAC school would be well served by hiring a successful !-AA head coach that has also been an assistant at a IA (I know) school.

(10-30-2013 07:39 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  EMU needs to find a good D2 or FCS head coach that has a track record of building a program.

I think this is the most important thing for EMU football in the next hire (a la Harkema).

Lembo at Testicle Tech another good example.

All,

If the history of EMU football is so bad then why not pay a proven HC some good $$$ and get a top level coach who had built a program that we know may only hang around for 3-4 year when by that time we would had turned the program around and then We could promote someone from the staff to take over as a HC? I want someone who has a successful track record of winning and not someone who has a good upside.. If you want to make money, you have to spend money.. If a coach could turnsaround EMU football program, EMU could make 20X's more in money from EMU garment sells, businesses, advertisement, marketing, etc..

Maybe do a book about turning around a down program, the coach could to motivational speaking.. Guys I just don't want to see EMU spend another 3-4 years on another English.. I want to meet you guys for a Pre-bowl game party..

Dear Pudge,
I agree, but I am not sure how much money Eastern can spend for a new coach. We have to have avenues of revenue and attendance, as an example, right now can't be counted on. I'm not sure what may be available from television, but as I have already said, there may not be much in the cupboard.

(10-31-2013 01:42 PM)NUPudge Wrote:  All,

If the history of EMU football is so bad then why not pay a proven HC some good $$$ and get a top level coach who had built a program that we know may only hang around for 3-4 year when by that time we would had turned the program around and then We could promote someone from the staff to take over as a HC? I want someone who has a successful track record of winning and not someone who has a good upside.. If you want to make money, you have to spend money.. If a coach could turnsaround EMU football program, EMU could make 20X's more in money from EMU garment sells, businesses, advertisement, marketing, etc..

Maybe do a book about turning around a down program, the coach could to motivational speaking.. Guys I just don't want to see EMU spend another 3-4 years on another English.. I want to meet you guys for a Pre-bowl game party..

I think EMU needs a coach who will be there longer than 3-4 years to sustain success. An older coach with a lot of experience who is towards the end of their career. Joe Novak was NIU's head coach for 11 years, but he laid the foundation for what the Huskies are today. There have been a lot of coaches from the MAC the past few years who have turned around programs in a year or two and then they left, those schools went right back down. *cough*Miami*couch*

(10-31-2013 02:32 PM)timxlydon Wrote:  

(10-31-2013 01:42 PM)NUPudge Wrote:  All,

If the history of EMU football is so bad then why not pay a proven HC some good $$$ and get a top level coach who had built a program that we know may only hang around for 3-4 year when by that time we would had turned the program around and then We could promote someone from the staff to take over as a HC? I want someone who has a successful track record of winning and not someone who has a good upside.. If you want to make money, you have to spend money.. If a coach could turnsaround EMU football program, EMU could make 20X's more in money from EMU garment sells, businesses, advertisement, marketing, etc..

Maybe do a book about turning around a down program, the coach could to motivational speaking.. Guys I just don't want to see EMU spend another 3-4 years on another English.. I want to meet you guys for a Pre-bowl game party..

I think EMU needs a coach who will be there longer than 3-4 years to sustain success. An older coach with a lot of experience who is towards the end of their career. Joe Novak was NIU's head coach for 11 years, but he laid the foundation for what the Huskies are today. There have been a lot of coaches from the MAC the past few years who have turned around programs in a year or two and then they left, those schools went right back down. *cough*Miami*couch*

A coach who can turn a program for 3-4 years, I am okay with that..

(10-31-2013 02:32 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Pudge,
I agree, but I am not sure how much money Eastern can spend for a new coach. We have to have avenues of revenue and attendance, as an example, right now can't be counted on. I'm not sure what may be available from television, but as I have already said, there may not be much in the cupboard.

How much probable money are we leaving on the table because we have a bad coach and a closing program?

If we add bonuses to it based on W/L, offense scores, defense scores, players GPA. Etc....

(10-31-2013 02:32 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Pudge,
I agree, but I am not sure how much money Eastern can spend for a new coach. We have to have avenues of revenue and attendance, as an example, right now can't be counted on. I'm not sure what may be available from television, but as I have already said, there may not be much in the cupboard.

Money isn't the big issue, finding the right person is. But that is no different than five years ago.

I believe, if my media source is correct, each MAC team is supposed to get a huge increase in yearly monies from ESPN. From 100K to nearly 1M. I'm still not convinced, though.

Each MAC team is supposed to share big in the latest golden goose, the college football playoffs, starting in 2014 (technically after the 2014 season). That could soon be 1M per team per year. The monies for some big programs might be bigger than the GDP of some impoverished countries.

Football revenues even for the non-BCS (or non-playoff) conferences are rising and in the case of EMU far exceed any revenue increases we could hope from ticket revenues.

In summary: Our FB revenue drivers will be: road game guarantees, ESPN television monies and the College Football Playoffs distributions.

Increase the paid attendance at Rynearson is small dollars compared to the big revenue sources.