(10-14-2013 09:25 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 08:16 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I'm going to take a few steps backwards on this thread.

My question is what is the PROCESS by which Coach English could be fired?

My first reaction is that those who say when the AD (!) decides...

My guess is that the decision will be made as much by the U President, Dr. Martin, as by the AD.

And I wouldn't be surprised if several regents might also play a role. Some regents were very involved in the hiring and would probably be involved in a firing.

Quite frankly, those who think the AD 'sleeps' on it for a night or two and then decides might be giving the AD more power than she has.

Matter of fact, I'd bet dollars to donuts that a decision to fire Coach English would at least need Dr. Martin's concurrence or a decision to say fire in October vs. November would require Dr. Martin's concurrence.

The AD and U president would try to decide this question:

Will the team be more competitive for the BALANCE OF THIS SEASON with or without Coach English?

Otherwise, there is NO advantage to firing a coach with half a season left, can't talk to a prospective coach who is under contract now as a possible successor.

I think it's to EMU's advantage to announce that he will not be re-signed ASAP (this week???).

Not sure what the rules are regarding interviewing someone that is currently on staff at another school but getting the word out there now rather than later at least helps jump start the process. It'll also send the message to alumni/fans that something is being done. Doing it now rather than later is also fair to HS seniors that are being recruited by EMU.

Whether or not RE finishes out the season as a lame duck is another subject.

I agree with your assessment as to what needs to be done. That was the reason for starting this thread in the first place. For me the Ball State game told me that this season wasn't going to be a winning one.

I think English could stay if he took a 50% pay cut down to ($210,000), I don't think there is anyone out there that we could get for that kind of money that is any better..

I'd rather hire Mitchell out of Grand Valley for about that sum than see English return.

Out of respect for Demarius Reed and the team, I believe English will/should be allowed to finish out the season. That would be appropriate.

We can worry about the coaching search in December...

I would agree with you.

People have mentioned Winter at Wayne State and Mitchell at Grand Valley but actually this coach from the same conference appears to be more up and coming:

http://athletics.svsu.edu/sports/fball/c...o-template

Collins is the current head college football coach for the Saginaw Valley State Cardinals located in University Center, Michigan. He has held that position for five seasons, from 2008 until 2012. His coaching record at Saginaw Valley State is 35 wins and 20 losses. As of the conclusion of the 2012 season, this ranks him #4 at Saginaw Valley State in total wins and #3 at the school in winning percentage (.636). As the head football coach at Capital University, Collins recorded 66 wins and 51 losses in eleven seasons, which ranks him #2 all time in total wins and #2 in all-time winning percentage (.564). Capital made the NCAA Division III playoffs in each of Collins last three seasons.

I believe for 2013 Saginaw Valley is 7-1 and ranked 25th. Indy in the same conference is ranked higher and some mentioned their coach as a potential candidate.

(10-18-2013 01:26 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Out of respect for Demarius Reed and the team, I believe English will/should be allowed to finish out the season. That would be appropriate.

We can worry about the coaching search in December...

Quite frankly English could finish the season and a low keyed search for a replacement could be taking place.

They are not mutually exclusive. They can both be true. English doesn't need to be fired for a low keyed search to begin.

Think back to Ramsey.

Didn't he have a contract with a one year automatic renewal (term used was 'rollover') UNLESS rescinded by EMU?

I believe Ramsey coached his final year without being extended another year which is equivalent of being a 'lame duck' for his last season, i.e., told that you have no contract beyond the current season.

Quite frankly, English doesn't need to be fired. Simply non renewed as Ramsey was non renewed.

After the last game of this season his EMU coaching career simply comes to a quiet ending ala Ramsey.

Quite frankly even an announcement isn't necessary to 'alert' coaches that a vacancy exists. EMU can just go through the search process with a search firm and say NOTHING publicly yet the process would be working.

That is how business is done today.

one thing to think about though steve is that recruits look at coaching contracts. If they see a coach with in his last year with no extension on the horizon, they may opt to go to a school that has a more stable situation. That's why you see many coaches fired with 1 year left on their contract.

(10-28-2013 10:29 PM)Ubish Wrote:  one thing to think about though steve is that recruits look at coaching contracts. If they see a coach with in his last year with no extension on the horizon, they may opt to go to a school that has a more stable situation. That's why you see many coaches fired with 1 year left on their contract.

Yes, the 'lame duck'.

I don't doubt that recruiting will be really hurt this year but that is always, okay, almost always (WMU being the exception to the rule) the rule.

That said, as we know EMU has a junior-ladden team and the team will have talent next year regardless of how this year's recruiting plays out.

(10-29-2013 05:17 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 10:29 PM)Ubish Wrote:  one thing to think about though steve is that recruits look at coaching contracts. If they see a coach with in his last year with no extension on the horizon, they may opt to go to a school that has a more stable situation. That's why you see many coaches fired with 1 year left on their contract.

Yes, the 'lame duck'.

I don't doubt that recruiting will be really hurt this year but that is always, okay, almost always (WMU being the exception to the rule) the rule.

That said, as we know EMU has a junior-ladden team and the team will have talent next year regardless of how this year's recruiting plays out.

Great point!!!!

I'll also add that any verbals that EMU has at this point were aware that this was English last contract year and it might not be renewed. I understand the FB football players are a close knit group and that may appeal to potential recruits. I believe a majority of our football players are class acts.

http://www.eiupanthers.com/staff.aspx?staff=181

http://ysusports.com/sports/fball/coaches/Wolford_Eric

(10-28-2013 12:17 PM)emu79 Wrote:  People have mentioned Winter at Wayne State and Mitchell at Grand Valley but actually this coach from the same conference appears to be more up and coming:

http://athletics.svsu.edu/sports/fball/c...o-template

Collins is the current head college football coach for the Saginaw Valley State Cardinals located in University Center, Michigan. He has held that position for five seasons, from 2008 until 2012. His coaching record at Saginaw Valley State is 35 wins and 20 losses. As of the conclusion of the 2012 season, this ranks him #4 at Saginaw Valley State in total wins and #3 at the school in winning percentage (.636). As the head football coach at Capital University, Collins recorded 66 wins and 51 losses in eleven seasons, which ranks him #2 all time in total wins and #2 in all-time winning percentage (.564). Capital made the NCAA Division III playoffs in each of Collins last three seasons.

I believe for 2013 Saginaw Valley is 7-1 and ranked 25th. Indy in the same conference is ranked higher and some mentioned their coach as a potential candidate.

"Known for his innovative offensive mind, Collins has a tremendous reputation in the state of Ohio."

Sounds good to me.

(10-29-2013 05:58 AM)NUPudge Wrote:  

(10-29-2013 05:17 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 10:29 PM)Ubish Wrote:  one thing to think about though steve is that recruits look at coaching contracts. If they see a coach with in his last year with no extension on the horizon, they may opt to go to a school that has a more stable situation. That's why you see many coaches fired with 1 year left on their contract.

Yes, the 'lame duck'.

I don't doubt that recruiting will be really hurt this year but that is always, okay, almost always (WMU being the exception to the rule) the rule.

That said, as we know EMU has a junior-ladden team and the team will have talent next year regardless of how this year's recruiting plays out.

Great point!!!!

And anyone think that frosh can be 'saviors' need only to have watched Saturday's game. [Feb 2014 signing day is more about 2015, 2016 and beyond and little about 2014.]

Roback started and played a lot. Benz played a lot as well.

Benz looked much, much more polished than Roback.

Big difference between a redshirt junior and a true frosh.

Roback is playing to expedite his development for 2014 and beyond.

Let me start this out by saying that I am just asking a question because I have no facts but would you guys be open to hiring Jim Tressel as a head coach? I am thinking that our AD Ms. Lyke is from Ohio State and maybe she can reach out to him as a coach or maybe to recommend a strong head coach.. Just a thought.

We did this last time with our former AD with Michigan background and Lloyd Carr as an unpaid consultant. No surprise but most of the finalists had U of M backgrounds.

Our new AD needs to be careful here and not to indulge in Ohio State favoritism. We need a complete open and transparent search for the next coach with out any bias.

Some Ohio St assistants have done well (Toledo) and others are now struggling (Kent St.)

As you can see from the various postings there are a number of Div II and FCS coaching candidates out there if you want to avoid the usual Big Ten assistant coach route. From the FCS ranks I really do like the Eastern Illinois Coach and Youngstown State, from Div II I like either the Indy coach or Saginaw Valley, from the Big 10 or assistant coaching ranks I like either of the Mallorys, Joe Salem from MSU. My top wish list person would be Cubit.

(10-30-2013 06:18 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Our new AD needs to be careful here and not to indulge in Ohio State favoritism. We need a complete open and transparent search for the next coach with out any bias.

Some Ohio St assistants have done well (Toledo) and others are now struggling (Kent St.)

I'm not sure you have your fact correct.

Tim Beckman (OSU-Toledo) did very well.

Darrell Hazell (OSU -Kent) did very well.

I can add that maybe the best MAC coach in decades, Urban Meyer, was an assistant coach at Notre Dame when hired by BG.

That said, the idea of saying that anyone has evidence that assistant coaches or coordinators have worse success outcomes when moving to a FBS HC (MAC) position than say FCS (or even D-II) HCs, simply is not true.

This is simply anecdotal evidence which along with a dollar will buy a donut at Dunkin Donuts. I'm one who believe anecdotal evidence is virtually worthless. One can justify any point using anecdotal evidence. In science it is what is called the N=1 paradigm (I remember reading a journal article on it for a research course). What does a case study prove? Can one generalize from the single case to the broader population?

I'm not aware of any empirical study which has attempted to measure success rates between the two classes of hires (i.e,., FBS assistant coaches/coordinators vs. FCS/D-II head coaches) at the non-AQ level.

(10-30-2013 06:18 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Our new AD needs to be careful here and not to indulge in Ohio State favoritism. We need a complete open and transparent search for the next coach with out any bias.

Hiring coaches is not an open and transparent process, quite the contrary.

Unusually for the privacy concerns of the applicants the process is usually conducted now with the assistance of search firms which shield the applicant from a lot of media attention and disclosure.

Initial interviews aren't conducted on either the hiring schools campus or the campus of applicant, frequently in a third city.

later in the process various stakeholders get more involved in the process.

(10-30-2013 06:53 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-30-2013 06:18 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Our new AD needs to be careful here and not to indulge in Ohio State favoritism. We need a complete open and transparent search for the next coach with out any bias.

Some Ohio St assistants have done well (Toledo) and others are now struggling (Kent St.)

I'm not sure you have your fact correct.

Tim Beckman (OSU-Toledo) did very well.

Darrell Hazell (OSU -Kent) did very well.

I can add that maybe the best MAC coach in decades, Urban Meyer, was an assistant coach at Notre Dame when hired by BG.

That said, the idea of saying that anyone has evidence that assistant coaches or coordinators have worse success outcomes when moving to a FBS HC (MAC) position than say FCS (or even D-II) HCs, simply is not true.

This is simply anecdotal evidence which along with a dollar will buy a donut at Dunkin Donuts. I'm one who believe anecdotal evidence is virtually worthless. One can justify any point using anecdotal evidence. In science it is what is called the N=1 paradigm (I remember reading a journal article on it for a research course). What does a case study prove? Can one generalize from the single case to the broader population?

I'm not aware of any empirical study which has attempted to measure success rates between the two classes of hires (i.e,., FBS assistant coaches/coordinators vs. FCS/D-II head coaches) at the non-AQ level.

You're right about Hazell. We'll have to see how he does at Purdue.