To add to the piling on the coaching...why didn't Smith start? I know the stated reason, but he seemed fine to me and we obviously played better with him in there. I'm not saying it would change the outcome (I tend to think it probably wouldn't), but that was odd.

(10-29-2023 08:00 AM)Sellers dweller Wrote:  To add to the piling on the coaching...why didn't Smith start? I know the stated reason, but he seemed fine to me and we obviously played better with him in there. I'm not saying it would change the outcome (I tend to think it probably wouldn't), but that was odd.

Yes, the big question was why didn't Smith start.

The ESPN+ telecast said Smith was banged up and missed some practice.

(10-29-2023 08:13 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-29-2023 08:00 AM)Sellers dweller Wrote:  To add to the piling on the coaching...why didn't Smith start? I know the stated reason, but he seemed fine to me and we obviously played better with him in there. I'm not saying it would change the outcome (I tend to think it probably wouldn't), but that was odd.

Yes, the big question was why didn't Smith start.

The ESPN+ telecast said Smith was banged up and missed some practice.

It was weird. 'banged up' enough to not play but in the same breath, 'played.'

Something is off with this team

(10-29-2023 09:33 AM)steve4840 Wrote:  

(10-29-2023 08:13 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-29-2023 08:00 AM)Sellers dweller Wrote:  To add to the piling on the coaching...why didn't Smith start? I know the stated reason, but he seemed fine to me and we obviously played better with him in there. I'm not saying it would change the outcome (I tend to think it probably wouldn't), but that was odd.

Yes, the big question was why didn't Smith start.

The ESPN+ telecast said Smith was banged up and missed some practice.

It was weird. 'banged up' enough to not play but in the same breath, 'played.'

Something is off with this team

The only thing I can think of is he could have hurt himself more? I'm sure we have all heard of the injury where a guy is hurt but he plays through the pain because, while it might hurt, he can't do any further damage.

Maybe Austin's injury was one that we could manage and play through, but there WAS a possiblity of making it worse?

(10-29-2023 09:45 AM)Sellers dweller Wrote:  

(10-29-2023 09:33 AM)steve4840 Wrote:  

(10-29-2023 08:13 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-29-2023 08:00 AM)Sellers dweller Wrote:  To add to the piling on the coaching...why didn't Smith start? I know the stated reason, but he seemed fine to me and we obviously played better with him in there. I'm not saying it would change the outcome (I tend to think it probably wouldn't), but that was odd.

Yes, the big question was why didn't Smith start.

The ESPN+ telecast said Smith was banged up and missed some practice.

It was weird. 'banged up' enough to not play but in the same breath, 'played.'

Something is off with this team

The only thing I can think of is he could have hurt himself more? I'm sure we have all heard of the injury where a guy is hurt but he plays through the pain because, while it might hurt, he can't do any further damage.

Maybe Austin's injury was one that we could manage and play through, but there WAS a possiblity of making it worse?

In the post-game interview that Luckey shared in this thread, Coach Creighton said that Austin Smith was cleared by game time, but did not take any reps all week in practice- which implied to me they went with Udengwu for practice reasons. Perhaps being cautious of aggravating the injury as you allude to. Or perhaps also used the situation opportunistically to try something different with the offense- and was clear not an improvement.

As far as defense goes I think they did fairly well. They stopped WMU 3 times with their great goal line defense. This game would have a really bad if they hadn't stood their ground. This like most losses this can be put on a the offense and that is do to a questionable quarterback. Honestly I've never seen a worse starting quarterback play for EMU.

(10-29-2023 01:27 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  As far as defense goes I think they did fairly well. They stopped WMU 3 times with their great goal line defense. This game would have a really bad if they hadn't stood their ground. This like most losses this can be put on a the offense and that is do to a questionable quarterback. Honestly I've never seen a worse starting quarterback play for EMU.

I completely agree.

(10-29-2023 01:27 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  As far as defense goes I think they did fairly well. They stopped WMU 3 times with their great goal line defense. This game would have a really bad if they hadn't stood their ground. This like most losses this can be put on a the offense and that is do to a questionable quarterback. Honestly I've never seen a worse starting quarterback play for EMU.

Hands down Todd Porter

I've yet to go back and watch the game, so I am just going off what I saw at the game. A couple of weeks ago I made the observation that I thought Austin was having trouble with making his reads. I sensed the same with Ike.

The challenge is the coaches seem to want to run empty passing schemes for much of the game, which does two things to your offense. First, you don't have an RB in the backfield, so by design your only option is to pass or for the QB to tuck and run. Next, in theory, empty schemes allow you to stack receivers and force the defense to show their coverage. Ideally, this allows the QB to make a coverage read pre-snap and identify where the coverage gaps will likely be. The QB can then focus on those anticipated gaps and quickly feed receivers who are likely to be open.

For empty passing schemes to be successful, a few key things need to happen. Your QB needs to make an accurate pre-snap read to determine where the coverage gaps will likely be; the QB needs to make a quick post-snap read of his "chosen" area of the field to identify which receiver route to feed; the receivers need to run their routes accurately; the QB needs to finalize his read and pass the ball QUICKLY to his intended target; and the receiver needs to catch the ball.

To my eyes, the empty set has failed this team as our QBs seem to struggle with their reads, both pre-snap and post-snap. I've seen the ball thrown into tight coverage too many times; the QBs often take too long to pass the ball thus allowing the defense to collapse the pocket (remember, the backfield is empty on these schemes, so there is no extra guy in the backfield to pick up a blitz or support a block); delayed pass allows more time for d-backs to cover what was initially an open receiver; the QB then has little choice but to tuck and run or just throw the ball away.

Finally, relying on the empty set as your primary scheme can backfire when the passing game isn't working as the moment you put backs in the backfield, the defense knows odds are you're going to run the ball.

Bottom line...I think the coaches are relying on offensive schemes our QB's are challenged with. For whatever reason our QB's seem to struggle with accurate reads on passing downs. Make passing your primary focus, and they are bound to struggle.

Dear cidbearit,
That was very educational fr me. I had no idea what an empty passing formation meant, and I agree with your explanation of what the problems with it can be. Thank you very much.

(10-30-2023 12:10 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear cidbearit,
That was very educational fr me. I had no idea what an empty passing formation meant, and I agree with your explanation of what the problems with it can be. Thank you very much.

Agree Ken.

Thanks CID for taking the time to explain your perspective and to define an empty set!!

Since there’s so much confusion with the reads, the staff should just drop back and pass 5, 10, 15 yards etc. The QBs have been ill equipped to run thru the progressions in under 3 seconds and make a pass play.

Agree. I love explanations which can tie schemes to talent.

I liked Dennis' observation that as soon as EMU re-sets to a traditional set, the opponents take that to mean a running play is coming.

(10-30-2023 09:59 AM)cidbearit Wrote:  I've yet to go back and watch the game, so I am just going off what I saw at the game. A couple of weeks ago I made the observation that I thought Austin was having trouble with making his reads. I sensed the same with Ike.

The challenge is the coaches seem to want to run empty passing schemes for much of the game, which does two things to your offense. First, you don't have an RB in the backfield, so by design your only option is to pass or for the QB to tuck and run. Next, in theory, empty schemes allow you to stack receivers and force the defense to show their coverage. Ideally, this allows the QB to make a coverage read pre-snap and identify where the coverage gaps will likely be. The QB can then focus on those anticipated gaps and quickly feed receivers who are likely to be open.

For empty passing schemes to be successful, a few key things need to happen. Your QB needs to make an accurate pre-snap read to determine where the coverage gaps will likely be; the QB needs to make a quick post-snap read of his "chosen" area of the field to identify which receiver route to feed; the receivers need to run their routes accurately; the QB needs to finalize his read and pass the ball QUICKLY to his intended target; and the receiver needs to catch the ball.

To my eyes, the empty set has failed this team as our QBs seem to struggle with their reads, both pre-snap and post-snap. I've seen the ball thrown into tight coverage too many times; the QBs often take too long to pass the ball thus allowing the defense to collapse the pocket (remember, the backfield is empty on these schemes, so there is no extra guy in the backfield to pick up a blitz or support a block); delayed pass allows more time for d-backs to cover what was initially an open receiver; the QB then has little choice but to tuck and run or just throw the ball away.

Finally, relying on the empty set as your primary scheme can backfire when the passing game isn't working as the moment you put backs in the backfield, the defense knows odds are you're going to run the ball.

Bottom line...I think the coaches are relying on offensive schemes our QB's are challenged with. For whatever reason our QB's seem to struggle with accurate reads on passing downs. Make passing your primary focus, and they are bound to struggle.

Thanks Cid. Taylor Powell excelled at reading defenses which explains why he is now a CFL starting QB. Of course Taylor had an excellent stable of WRs to work with last year and probably a better offensive line.