What if they join the Big Ten

(10-04-2023 08:08 PM)Illinoisking91 Wrote:  What if they join the Big Ten

They could, if they wait 12 years. I don't think they want to.

Their best choice would be KU. But if it's an ACC school, I'd guess NCSt (or perhaps VT).

In this scenario, UVA/Miami have to feel good about a B1G invite. Geography doesn't matter much, and culturally the fit is better. KU and Duke to 22. Stanford prays to the Virgin Mary that UND joins so they can be their plus-one.

(10-04-2023 04:41 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The thread title sums it up, who’s the lucky duck that joins them?

SEC: Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and Virginia

BIG: Georgia Tech and Miami (FL)

Big XII: Duke, Louisville, NC State and Virginia Tech

NC State with 6 votes…grrrrrr….

What if the 20th SEC school is Notre Dame? Checkmate for ESPN and the SEC.

(10-04-2023 09:33 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 04:41 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The thread title sums it up, who’s the lucky duck that joins them?

SEC: Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and Virginia

BIG: Georgia Tech and Miami (FL)

Big XII: Duke, Louisville, NC State and Virginia Tech

I don't think Duke, Miami or Ga Tech leave the elite, private, academic league Notre dame has now set up in the ACC. They dominate it's direction with it's influence. They pulled the strings for the three recent adds.

I see Pitt, Louisville, NCSU and Va tech to the Big XII.

Someone needed to put Us in the SEC !

(10-04-2023 10:13 PM)Pirate Rep Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 09:33 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 04:41 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The thread title sums it up, who’s the lucky duck that joins them?

SEC: Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and Virginia

BIG: Georgia Tech and Miami (FL)

Big XII: Duke, Louisville, NC State and Virginia Tech

I don't think Duke, Miami or Ga Tech leave the elite, private, academic league Notre dame has now set up in the ACC. They dominate it's direction with it's influence. They pulled the strings for the three recent adds.

I see Pitt, Louisville, NCSU and Va tech to the Big XII.

Notre Dame starting their own conference of elites and buddies is very much an option. They could still use their NBC deal to keep pace financially.

However, Clemson and Florida State would leave as football first schools, North Carolina and Virginia would leave because it would no longer be theirs, and Duke could stay with Stanford.

In that world the SEC moves to 20 with Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and Virginia and does stop at 20. The Big 10 could take Kansas and Colorado and have a bridge to the West, or the could do the same with Colorado and Utah.

I would suggest that if Notre Dame formed such a league that attracting Vanderbilt and Northwestern would be possible. S.M.U. would stay and Tulane could be added as a bridge to SMU, and South Florida would be an asset. If they pulled Northwestern with Vandy they have their conference. The Big 10 could pick up an Arizona school and the SEC could add Kansas to replace Vanderbilt.

The concept of Notre Dame anchoring their own entourage conference makes the SEC and Big 10 more profitable at 20 and ushers in 4 conferences to the upper tier.

Personally I would like that outcome better than most.

SEC:

Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State

Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina

Clemson, Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia

Big 10:

California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Utah, Washington

Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota

Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin

Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

Golden Dome Conference:

Army, Boston College, Northwestern, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

Air Force, California, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington State

Duke, Navy, Southern Methodist, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest

Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, N.C. State, Virginia Tech

* Notre Dame


New Big 12:

Arizona, Arizona State, Boise State, Brigham Young, San Diego State

Baylor, Houston, Texas Christian, Texas Tech, Nevada

Cincinnati, Colorado State, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State

Central Florida, East Carolina, Memphis, South Florida, Tulane

The answer is Duke. Best two football brands (FSU/Clemson) best two basketball brands (UNC/Duke). If the SEC pushes beyond 20 their next 2 choices would be VaTech and Miami to 22, but this is where it gets sticky because the B1G will be pushing to 20 and beyond with them.

I goofed with my vote on the poll. I meant to vote for NC State, but my phone selected Duke instead. Arrrgghh. Technology!!!

I voted for VaTech. They are the most SEC-like, carry the majority of the state and the most fertile recruiting grounds. Natural rival for KY, UTK, UGA, etc.

Miami is the only one with the required value.

Virginia is the "boutique" add to go with UNC. But frankly I see UNC as the 4th for Miami, not the other way around.

(10-04-2023 10:37 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  The answer is Duke. Best two football brands (FSU/Clemson) best two basketball brands (UNC/Duke). If the SEC pushes beyond 20 their next 2 choices would be VaTech and Miami to 22, but this is where it gets sticky because the B1G will be pushing to 20 and beyond with them.

Which is why the SEC may well push past 20. We aren't taking in former PAC schools and there is only 1 Big 12 school of interest, Kansas. So the SEC and ESPN will know that when they crack the conference they had better pull all they want or could use then. ESPN will know the inventory end game number as will FOX.

(10-04-2023 09:34 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  NC State with 6 votes…grrrrrr….

lol

I think that will come down to the NC university system decision-makers.

I don't think anyone liked what they saw happen with Cal and UCLA.

And the SEC won't have the "1 state, 1 school" excuse this time, if they take FSU and Clemson, since Florida and SC are already in the SEC.

But all that said, I'm just following the question of this thread.

I think the SEC should add: FSU, Clemson, NC, and Louisville.

It fills out their east side, while leaving the ACC options for viability. (which, I would think, is an espn preference)

But anyway, this thread is about what is likely to happen, not what I think should happen...

(10-04-2023 11:12 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 09:34 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  NC State with 6 votes…grrrrrr….

lol

I think that will come down to the NC university system decision-makers.

I don't think anyone liked what they saw happen with Cal and UCLA.

And the SEC won't have the "1 state, 1 school" excuse this time, if they take FSU and Clemson, since Florida and SC are already in the SEC.

But all that said, I'm just following the question of this thread.

I think the SEC should add: FSU, Clemson, NC, and Louisville.

It fills out their east side, while leaving the ACC options for viability. (which, I would think, is an espn preference)

But anyway, this thread is about what is likely to happen, not what I think should happen...

The SEC never had that rubric. ESPN did and in 2011 it was 2 new markets that were required to renegotiate the ESPN portion of the contract.

This time around Sankey has stated keeping rivalries together would be a priority as would be staying roughly regional.

Besides the Texas add was the one which violated any notion of ESPN's rubric of 1 school per state. Florida State and Clemson will only kick it to the curb.

And Skyhawk if the SEC takes 7 or 8 and the Big 10 takes Cal, Stanford and N.D. plus maybe Miami as Pete suggests, that's 11 or 12 of the current members and soon to be members. Georgia Tech, Louisville, Boston College, Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the Big 12 makes that 16 or 17 out of 18. At that point there is no rebuild.

Kansas

(10-04-2023 11:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 11:12 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 09:34 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  NC State with 6 votes…grrrrrr….

lol

I think that will come down to the NC university system decision-makers.

I don't think anyone liked what they saw happen with Cal and UCLA.

And the SEC won't have the "1 state, 1 school" excuse this time, if they take FSU and Clemson, since Florida and SC are already in the SEC.

But all that said, I'm just following the question of this thread.

I think the SEC should add: FSU, Clemson, NC, and Louisville.

It fills out their east side, while leaving the ACC options for viability. (which, I would think, is an espn preference)

But anyway, this thread is about what is likely to happen, not what I think should happen...

The SEC never had that rubric. ESPN did and in 2011 it was 2 new markets that were required to renegotiate the ESPN portion of the contract.

This time around Sankey has stated keeping rivalries together would be a priority as would be staying roughly regional.

Besides the Texas add was the one which violated any notion of ESPN's rubric of 1 school per state. Florida State and Clemson will only kick it to the curb.

And Skyhawk if the SEC takes 7 or 8 and the Big 10 takes Cal, Stanford and N.D. plus maybe Miami as Pete suggests, that's 11 or 12 of the current members and soon to be members. Georgia Tech, Louisville, Boston College, Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the Big 12 makes that 16 or 17 out of 18. At that point there is no rebuild.

I apologize, I was blurring the lines of what SEC wanted, due to what espn wanted.

As for expansion, we're all making lists, and I dunno, some days I question whether the conferences/media partners want to expand that much.

I think it would be fun, but there's too much we don't know yet in their decision-making.

(10-05-2023 12:22 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 11:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 11:12 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 09:34 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  NC State with 6 votes…grrrrrr….

lol

I think that will come down to the NC university system decision-makers.

I don't think anyone liked what they saw happen with Cal and UCLA.

And the SEC won't have the "1 state, 1 school" excuse this time, if they take FSU and Clemson, since Florida and SC are already in the SEC.

But all that said, I'm just following the question of this thread.

I think the SEC should add: FSU, Clemson, NC, and Louisville.

It fills out their east side, while leaving the ACC options for viability. (which, I would think, is an espn preference)

But anyway, this thread is about what is likely to happen, not what I think should happen...

The SEC never had that rubric. ESPN did and in 2011 it was 2 new markets that were required to renegotiate the ESPN portion of the contract.

This time around Sankey has stated keeping rivalries together would be a priority as would be staying roughly regional.

Besides the Texas add was the one which violated any notion of ESPN's rubric of 1 school per state. Florida State and Clemson will only kick it to the curb.

And Skyhawk if the SEC takes 7 or 8 and the Big 10 takes Cal, Stanford and N.D. plus maybe Miami as Pete suggests, that's 11 or 12 of the current members and soon to be members. Georgia Tech, Louisville, Boston College, Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the Big 12 makes that 16 or 17 out of 18. At that point there is no rebuild.

I apologize, I was blurring the lines of what SEC wanted, due to what espn wanted.

As for expansion, we're all making lists, and I dunno, some days I question whether the conferences/media partners want to expand that much.

I think it would be fun, but there's too much we don't know yet in their decision-making.

What do we know?

1. Expanded CFPs are on the way and that means a prime reason to have a cable subscription if ESPN or FOX wins the bid.

2. They are consolidating inventory. Why? Breakaway is coming sooner or later and likely sooner because if the CFP carries cable subs in January a new hoops tourney will carry them in March.

3. I think 24 is about right for the SEC and Big 10 inasmuch as it gives each 12 games average per week to sell and consolidated the content is even stronger.

4. They actually reduce overhead by moving to 24 as odd as that sounds because they are replacing filler games with better material and purchasing the rights to a lot less conferences. I pointed out earlier how an SEC moving to 24 with 8 ACC schools would actually be a wash for ESPN with reduced overhead on the side. FOX would have better material and the Big 10 would have more games for CBS and NBC to choose. And their need for smaller conference content would be diminished.

5. ESPN and FOX split the rights for less expensive material and get a better product in the Big 12 including some late night slots for ESPN and a bit of Southeastern material for FOX and New England material for them as well.

6. The breakaway defines the scope of top tier material and with fewer conferences a smaller group of announcers can handle the load.

These are the motivations. And they are big ones in light of the issues facing OTA. This is why I look for something to pop sooner rather than later.

Once that is in place and the contract for the 2026's CFP is in hand the upper tier becomes a reality and with it Baseball, Softball, Gymnastics and the gamut to fill out the year and all from essentially 3 conferences which within the next 5 to 10 years may simply become 2 halves of one League.

(10-05-2023 12:49 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-05-2023 12:22 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 11:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 11:12 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-04-2023 09:34 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  NC State with 6 votes…grrrrrr….

lol

I think that will come down to the NC university system decision-makers.

I don't think anyone liked what they saw happen with Cal and UCLA.

And the SEC won't have the "1 state, 1 school" excuse this time, if they take FSU and Clemson, since Florida and SC are already in the SEC.

But all that said, I'm just following the question of this thread.

I think the SEC should add: FSU, Clemson, NC, and Louisville.

It fills out their east side, while leaving the ACC options for viability. (which, I would think, is an espn preference)

But anyway, this thread is about what is likely to happen, not what I think should happen...

The SEC never had that rubric. ESPN did and in 2011 it was 2 new markets that were required to renegotiate the ESPN portion of the contract.

This time around Sankey has stated keeping rivalries together would be a priority as would be staying roughly regional.

Besides the Texas add was the one which violated any notion of ESPN's rubric of 1 school per state. Florida State and Clemson will only kick it to the curb.

And Skyhawk if the SEC takes 7 or 8 and the Big 10 takes Cal, Stanford and N.D. plus maybe Miami as Pete suggests, that's 11 or 12 of the current members and soon to be members. Georgia Tech, Louisville, Boston College, Pittsburgh and Syracuse to the Big 12 makes that 16 or 17 out of 18. At that point there is no rebuild.

I apologize, I was blurring the lines of what SEC wanted, due to what espn wanted.

As for expansion, we're all making lists, and I dunno, some days I question whether the conferences/media partners want to expand that much.

I think it would be fun, but there's too much we don't know yet in their decision-making.

What do we know?

1. Expanded CFPs are on the way and that means a prime reason to have a cable subscription if ESPN or FOX wins the bid.

2. They are consolidating inventory. Why? Breakaway is coming sooner or later and likely sooner because if the CFP carries cable subs in January a new hoops tourney will carry them in March.

3. I think 24 is about right for the SEC and Big 10 inasmuch as it gives each 12 games average per week to sell and consolidated the content is even stronger.

4. They actually reduce overhead by moving to 24 as odd as that sounds because they are replacing filler games with better material and purchasing the rights to a lot less conferences. I pointed out earlier how an SEC moving to 24 with 8 ACC schools would actually be a wash for ESPN with reduced overhead on the side. FOX would have better material and the Big 10 would have more games for CBS and NBC to choose. And their need for smaller conference content would be diminished.

5. ESPN and FOX split the rights for less expensive material and get a better product in the Big 12 including some late night slots for ESPN and a bit of Southeastern material for FOX and New England material for them as well.

6. The breakaway defines the scope of top tier material and with fewer conferences a smaller group of announcers can handle the load.

These are the motivations. And they are big ones in light of the issues facing OTA. This is why I look for something to pop sooner rather than later.

Once that is in place and the contract for the 2026's CFP is in hand the upper tier becomes a reality and with it Baseball, Softball, Gymnastics and the gamut to fill out the year and all from essentially 3 conferences which within the next 5 to 10 years may simply become 2 halves of one League.

A lot of that hinges on a "breakaway", and I dunno. The NCAA provides a liability shield that they are unlikely to frivolously do away with.

And I say that as a proponent of the idea of moving fbs football out of the NCAA.