(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

I don't find it odd. I don't watch basketball. Never have.

(09-18-2023 04:45 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

I don't find it odd. I don't watch basketball. Never have.

Yet if the Sun Belt ever gets a team to the Final Four, will you post how great it is for the league?

(09-18-2023 04:45 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

I don't find it odd. I don't watch basketball. Never have.

I don't really watch basketball either. I don't let my limited worldview in that regard, though, blind me to its importance to college athletic departments.

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

Are we not talking about top G5 league? That isn't a thing in basketball. How did the SBC get to the current #6 FBS conference position isn't a basketball discussion.

They have historically been dead weight in football and I stand by my original comment.

(09-18-2023 04:48 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:45 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

I don't find it odd. I don't watch basketball. Never have.

I don't really watch basketball either. I don't let my limited worldview in that regard, though, blind me to its importance to college athletic departments.

We're talking about sports conferences, not worldviews. I don't hate basketball, I just don't watch it. The last basketball games I watched were the NBA finals four or five years ago. I enjoyed it, but never desired to be a regular fan of the sport. I don't discount basketball's importance, but it is not on equal footing with football, so I see no reason to treat it as such.

(09-18-2023 04:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:45 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

I don't find it odd. I don't watch basketball. Never have.

Yet if the Sun Belt ever gets a team to the Final Four, will you post how great it is for the league?

Sure will. But a final four appearance in basketball and a final four appearance in football would be vastly different levels of "great".

(09-18-2023 04:49 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

Are we not talking about top G5 league? That isn't a thing in basketball. How did the SBC get to the current #6 FBS conference position isn't a basketball discussion.

They have historically been dead weight in football and I stand by my original comment.

MTSU and Western Kentucky as "dead weight" in football? That simply is wrong and unfair.

You are correct that G5 basketball is not a thing. But, sadly, all the men's hoops programs in those five leagues sometimes tend to get "lumped together" (which is troubling for this Memphis fan). So I actually feel this is a basketball discussion (at least indirectly).

Stand by your comment if you will. But this Middle Tennessee State graduate will stand firm and note I'm glad the Blue Raider men's basketball program is now in a league that, at least on paper, puts more emphasis on men's hoops than the Belt. And "dead weight" MTSU football will be fine in the new C-USA.

I find it interesting that some Sun Belt fans conveniently ignore basketball when discussing the strength of the league. They will argue that football is the superior sport (so as to, perhaps, avoid having to note Belt hoops is mediocre). But if the league continues to enjoy a stellar year in men's soccer (and, say, Marshall wins another national title), will these same posters note how the SBC's strong soccer contributes to the league's overall positive perception? And if they do, will that seem contradictory?

I see the narrative spinning from some posters. And it's a good example of why I'm not a fan of any one league (at least not to the level of some posters who support SBC, C-USA and AAC schools).

And before you criticize me, please check how many posts I've made that have been complimentary of the Sun Belt.

(09-18-2023 05:02 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:45 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

I don't find it odd. I don't watch basketball. Never have.

Yet if the Sun Belt ever gets a team to the Final Four, will you post how great it is for the league?

Sure will. But a final four appearance in basketball and a final four appearance in football would be vastly different levels of "great".

Well, at least your are being consistent and I give you props for that.

Agree on the difference between football and hoops.

(09-18-2023 05:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:49 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

Are we not talking about top G5 league? That isn't a thing in basketball. How did the SBC get to the current #6 FBS conference position isn't a basketball discussion.

They have historically been dead weight in football and I stand by my original comment.

MTSU and Western Kentucky as "dead weight" in football? That simply is wrong and unfair.

You are correct that G5 basketball is not a thing. But, sadly, all the men's hoops programs in those five leagues sometimes tend to get "lumped together" (which is troubling for this Memphis fan). So I actually feel this is a basketball discussion (at least indirectly).

Stand by your comment if you will. But this Middle Tennessee State graduate will stand firm and note I'm glad the Blue Raider men's basketball program is now in a league that, at least on paper, puts more emphasis on men's hoops than the Belt. And "dead weight" MTSU football will be fine in the new C-USA.

I find it interesting that some Sun Belt fans conveniently ignore basketball when discussing the strength of the league. They will argue that football is the superior sport (so as to, perhaps, avoid having to note Belt hoops is mediocre). But if the league continues to enjoy a stellar year in men's soccer (and, say, Marshall wins another national title), will these same posters note how the SBC's strong soccer contributes to the league's overall positive perception? And if they do, will that seem contradictory?

I see the narrative spinning from some posters. And it's a good example of why I'm not a fan of any one league (at least not to the level of some posters who support SBC, C-USA and AAC schools).

And before you criticize me, please check how many posts I've made that have been complimentary of the Sun Belt.

Glad you're happy that MTSU is in a conference that matches their desire (also, didn't list WKU. Their leaving the SBC pissed a lot of App admin folk off.) However, the SBC put a focus on football and baseball. We excel at that. New additions have helps make the SBC a soccer power. The conference leadership said basketball is next. I trust the leadership and the buy-in by the member teams. The "dead weight" didn't have the shared vision and thus we are stronger with the current lineup and minus the ones that couldn't focus and work together.

Clearly the SB has room to grow in MBB

(09-18-2023 07:34 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 05:47 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:49 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

Are we not talking about top G5 league? That isn't a thing in basketball. How did the SBC get to the current #6 FBS conference position isn't a basketball discussion.

They have historically been dead weight in football and I stand by my original comment.

MTSU and Western Kentucky as "dead weight" in football? That simply is wrong and unfair.

You are correct that G5 basketball is not a thing. But, sadly, all the men's hoops programs in those five leagues sometimes tend to get "lumped together" (which is troubling for this Memphis fan). So I actually feel this is a basketball discussion (at least indirectly).

Stand by your comment if you will. But this Middle Tennessee State graduate will stand firm and note I'm glad the Blue Raider men's basketball program is now in a league that, at least on paper, puts more emphasis on men's hoops than the Belt. And "dead weight" MTSU football will be fine in the new C-USA.

I find it interesting that some Sun Belt fans conveniently ignore basketball when discussing the strength of the league. They will argue that football is the superior sport (so as to, perhaps, avoid having to note Belt hoops is mediocre). But if the league continues to enjoy a stellar year in men's soccer (and, say, Marshall wins another national title), will these same posters note how the SBC's strong soccer contributes to the league's overall positive perception? And if they do, will that seem contradictory?

I see the narrative spinning from some posters. And it's a good example of why I'm not a fan of any one league (at least not to the level of some posters who support SBC, C-USA and AAC schools).

And before you criticize me, please check how many posts I've made that have been complimentary of the Sun Belt.

Glad you're happy that MTSU is in a conference that matches their desire (also, didn't list WKU. Their leaving the SBC pissed a lot of App admin folk off.) However, the SBC put a focus on football and baseball. We excel at that. New additions have helps make the SBC a soccer power. The conference leadership said basketball is next. I trust the leadership and the buy-in by the member teams. The "dead weight" didn't have the shared vision and thus we are stronger with the current lineup and minus the ones that couldn't focus and work together.

If the Belt gets as good in men's hoops as it is in football, baseball and soccer, I will be highly surprised — and give full props. That will not be easy to accomplish. But it's a worthy goal.

(09-18-2023 04:03 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 11:17 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  I think one of the things about the SBC is that we're all a bunch of small schools in small towns that no one wants. The big city schools can't stand it when we win. How dare a small school in WV or in Boone NC come in and win like we win. You wonder why we have a chip on our shoulder? It's because you put it there. So yes we are proud of where the SBC is now, why? Because none of you wanted us and it makes you all mad that we're winning. You've got the money and the markets and all the resources and that's supposed to equal wins... but guess what? It doesn't.

Lol is that how it feels to do none of the work on a group project and still get an A? Wasn’t Marshall PART of those money and markets associations for like, 15 years, and throughout the Sun Belt’s rise? The one you left the humble, regional MAC for? The one that told App State and Ga Southern to kick rocks in favor of startups UTSA and Charlotte?

I’m sure you’re proud to be in SBC now, which has turned into a very fun conference (although one that always had solid potential). Man, what an act though. Your school was WITH the rival league for 95% of the Belt’s rise. Marshall (and USM) were very much wanted by big market schools. You were with them for decades!

The Sun Belt is a good conference because it invited good FCS teams. Shocker, football commitment and support translates! The top of the FCS/D1-A is traditionally just as good as the top of the G5, and four specific additions (JMU in 21, CCU in 17, App State and Southern in 14) plus the ejection of Idaho have led to the Sun Belt becoming, at worst, the second best league in G5.

We were in the SoCon for 20 years with App State and Georgia Southern where we won two National Titles. We joined the MAC in 1997. We left the MAC because we actually lost money when we went to a bowl game, we went to 7 bowl games during our 8 years in the MAC. So we weren't making any money for our athletic department. CUSA invited us, not because we have a huge market of 40k people in Huntington, but because of this...

1997 10-3 Bowl appearance
1998 12-1 Bowl win
1999 13-0 Bowl win #10 ranking
2000 8-5 Bowl win
2001 11-2 Bowl win #20 ranking
2002 11-2 Bowl win #16 ranking
2003 8-4 no Bowl appearance because the MAC only had 1 bowl bid

That's how we got into CUSA, not because of our mega market of 40k people in Huntington. We were in the good CUSA from 2005-2012 which is 7 years (not decades). We were in the bad CUSA from 2013-2021 which is 8 years of being in purgatory.

Marshall, Southern Miss and UTEP were left behind in the 2012/13 realignment. To say that our history and achievements in our past, being stuck in a CUSA we didn't want to be in (after 2012) doesn't help the SBC perception is ludicrous. Hell we beat Notre Dame and went 9-4 and won another bowl game our first year in the SBC. So in 2012 when we were left behind.. that was the spirit of my original post, no one wanted us because we were a small school in a small market. The SBC invited us because of our history, our brand name and we fit their identity of small school in a small market. Remember, the SBC added us, we weren't backfill because someone left. They increased their member size because of us and what we had accomplished in the past because that helps the SBC with their perception and with their (our) long term goal of being highly competitive in athletics and being in a regional conference with strong regional rivals.

There's a reason the SBC added (not backfilled) Marshall, Southern Miss, JMU and ODU.

*Excuse the bad grammar, I just typed a stream of consciousness type of post*

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

North Texas has only 4 NCAA appearances, 2 of which came in the sunbelt and they have an all time 875-1016 record. The NIT win is nice, but other than that they have been bad at basketball, including their time in the Sun Belt

FAU has an all time 364-505 record (.404 win pct) with 2 NCAA appearances (0 as a sunbelt school). Obviously the FF run was amazing and I was a huge fan, but until alst year FAU was considered one of the worst Bball programs in CUSA/SBC.

NMSU is the only basketball brand but Geography and fan interest weren't there. Why didn't the AAC invite them if they are such a powerful basketball brand and the AAC ostensibly cares about basketball so much?

Notice he didn't mention WKU as dead weight. They are a good program in bball and football. They made the wrong call on conference affiliation and how to organically grow a conference and now they are paying the price.

We'll see if FAU/UNT basketball can sustain longer success than the one year you cherry picked, or if that is an outlier in what is historically 2 mediocre to bad programs.

(09-19-2023 07:56 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

North Texas has only 4 NCAA appearances, 2 of which came in the sunbelt and they have an all time 875-1016 record. The NIT win is nice, but other than that they have been bad at basketball, including their time in the Sun Belt

FAU has an all time 364-505 record (.404 win pct) with 2 NCAA appearances (0 as a sunbelt school). Obviously the FF run was amazing and I was a huge fan, but until alst year FAU was considered one of the worst Bball programs in CUSA/SBC.

NMSU is the only basketball brand but Geography and fan interest weren't there. Why didn't the AAC invite them if they are such a powerful basketball brand and the AAC ostensibly cares about basketball so much?

Notice he didn't mention WKU as dead weight. They are a good program in bball and football. They made the wrong call on conference affiliation and how to organically grow a conference and now they are paying the price.

We'll see if FAU/UNT basketball can sustain longer success than the one year you cherry picked, or if that is an outlier in what is historically 2 mediocre to bad programs.

Your points are well made and I essentially agree with you. I'm a Middle Tennessee State grad who worked for two football seasons with the sports information department. So I, in defensive mode, misconstrued his comment about "dead weight" as a reference to quality. The poster meant (and I understand now) that MTSU was not on the same page as other programs (particularly those now in the Belt) and, as such, was weighing them down. To be fair, I can see how the poster could have taken such a view.

You may not have seen, but I have posted previously that I am highly skeptical either North Texas or FAU can maintain a level of respectability in basketball.

My perspective is a bit different than those of many AAC, Sun Belt and C-USA fans. I root for a program (Memphis basketball) that has been "sufficiently nationally relevant" since it played for a national title (in the NIT, when that tourney was a bigger deal than the NCAA) in the late 1950s. Most Belt and C-USA programs (football or basketball) don't have that type history (UTEP hoops being an exception, of course). And that is not a criticism but, rather, a factor created by the circumstances of those SBC and C-USA members. I also want MTSU to do well, as my sister is a grad and my brother worked for the university. So as a fan of members of both the AAC and C-USA, I look at the Sun Belt with both respect (great job by the league in many ways) but also as a competitor to MTSU and Memphis.

But I try to be respectful of the Sun Belt.

(09-19-2023 08:21 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 07:56 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 04:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 03:43 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  Since 2011 the SBC has not only added strength but shed dead weight too.

Out: UNT, NMSU, Idaho, FIU, FAU, MTSU

In: App State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, CUSA3



2023 Conference is stronger than the 2011 Conference.

The Sun Belt has "shed dead weight" North Texas (last year's NIT champ), New Mexico State (a Final Four on its resume and 28 NCAA tourney appearance in its history), FAU (Final Four appearance last year), Western Kentucky (No. 16 in nation for all-time wins) and MTSU (which has beaten Kentucky, Florida State, Michigan State and Minnesota in the NCAA tournament since 1982).

And, yes, I know you are referencing football. But ...

It's this type dismissive approach from some Sun Belt fans on this board (not all to be very clear) that is simply odd. And, yes, I could say the same thing about some C-USA and AAC fans who post.

North Texas has only 4 NCAA appearances, 2 of which came in the sunbelt and they have an all time 875-1016 record. The NIT win is nice, but other than that they have been bad at basketball, including their time in the Sun Belt

FAU has an all time 364-505 record (.404 win pct) with 2 NCAA appearances (0 as a sunbelt school). Obviously the FF run was amazing and I was a huge fan, but until alst year FAU was considered one of the worst Bball programs in CUSA/SBC.

NMSU is the only basketball brand but Geography and fan interest weren't there. Why didn't the AAC invite them if they are such a powerful basketball brand and the AAC ostensibly cares about basketball so much?

Notice he didn't mention WKU as dead weight. They are a good program in bball and football. They made the wrong call on conference affiliation and how to organically grow a conference and now they are paying the price.

We'll see if FAU/UNT basketball can sustain longer success than the one year you cherry picked, or if that is an outlier in what is historically 2 mediocre to bad programs.

Your points are well made and I essentially agree with you. I'm a Middle Tennessee State grad who worked for two football seasons with the sports information department. So I, in defensive mode, misconstrued his comment about "dead weight" as a reference to quality. The poster meant (and I understand now) that MTSU was not on the same page as other programs (particularly those now in the Belt) and, as such, was weighing them down. To be fair, I can see how the poster could have taken such a view.

You may not have seen, but I have posted previously that I am highly skeptical either North Texas or FAU can maintain a level of respectability in football.

My perspective is a bit different than those of many AAC, Sun Belt and C-USA fans. I root for a program (Memphis basketball) that has been "sufficiently nationally relevant" since it played for a national title (in the NIT, when that tourney was a bigger deal than the NCAA) in the late 1950s. Most Belt and C-USA programs (football or basketball) don't have that type history (UTEP hoops being an exception, of course). And that is not a criticism but, rather, a factor created by the circumstances of those SBC and C-USA members. I also want MTSU to do well, as my sister is a grad and my brother worked for the university. So as a fan members of both the AAC and C-USA, I look at the Sun Belt with both respect (great job by the league in many ways) but also as a competitor to MTSU and Memphis.

But I try to be respectful of the Sun Belt.

Yes and the SBC whiile it does have JMU/ODU is still behind the A10 in Virginia since they have VCU/Richmond/GMU and across the river GWU.

I am not seeing a region where the SBC is the top hoops mid major. The MAC at least can claim that in Ohio and Michigan. It could do so in NY/New England too with UMass, URI, Fordham and Stony Brook.

(09-18-2023 09:36 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 09:13 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:08 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 07:58 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Yeah, I think it's not so much of a "meteoric rise" as much as benefiting from the raiding of the AAC.

Keep in mind, the AAC has lost not only UC, UH and UCF, but also Louisville and Rutgers. If all of them were still in AAC there would be no meteors.

How do you explain the SBC's rise above the Mountain West and MAC then?

The last time the MWC lost a school was 10 years before the SBC passed them in Massey, and the last time the MAC lost a football member was 4 years before the SBC passed them in Massey. As of now, they haven't passed us since we passed them.

That's not saying much.

The Sun Belt champion was once 5-7. Today, it's the highest rated G5 conference.

I'd say that's a meteoric rise.

It's an interesting phrase considering that meteors are always falling.

Regarding the impact of UCF, Houston and Cincy leaving the AAC, we can look at how that would change the current numbers.

Right now, the AAC is 1-13 vs P5 (including ND) and 7-9 vs G5 (including Army). Looking at FBS games:

Houston is 1-2 with a win over UTSA and losses to Rice and TCU.
Cincy is 1-1 with a win over Pitt and loss to Ohio
UCF is 2-0 with wins over Kent and Boise

So with these added in, the AAC record changes from 2-14 vs P5 and 9-11 vs G5 (I count the Houston loss to Rice as a G-loss). That helps because going 1-1 vs P and 2-2 vs G is better than what the AAC is currently doing.

Now, if we get rid of the six newcomers, we subtract their 3-6 record vs other G5 (not sure how to count Rice beating Houston, so I counted it as a G5 win), and that makes the AAC record vs G5 now 6-5.

So 2-14 and 6-5. The SBC is currently 3-9 vs P5 and 8-4 vs G5.

Just eyeballing, the SBC would still be better. But it would be a lot closer.

Obviously, the AAC had nothing to do with whether SBC teams beat or lose to P5 teams. But when comparing the AAC vs the SBC overall, IMO the composition of the AAC has something to do with it.

The SBC has gotten better, but the AAC has, with the swap of the three teams to the nB12 and the acquisition of the six CUSA teams, gotten a lot worse. And the latter is IMO a major component of the SBC as of now topping the AAC.

Just my take.

(09-19-2023 08:50 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 09:36 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 09:13 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:08 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 07:58 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Yeah, I think it's not so much of a "meteoric rise" as much as benefiting from the raiding of the AAC.

Keep in mind, the AAC has lost not only UC, UH and UCF, but also Louisville and Rutgers. If all of them were still in AAC there would be no meteors.

How do you explain the SBC's rise above the Mountain West and MAC then?

The last time the MWC lost a school was 10 years before the SBC passed them in Massey, and the last time the MAC lost a football member was 4 years before the SBC passed them in Massey. As of now, they haven't passed us since we passed them.

That's not saying much.

The Sun Belt champion was once 5-7. Today, it's the highest rated G5 conference.

I'd say that's a meteoric rise.

It's an interesting phrase considering that meteors are always falling.

I had to look this up, but it's mostly true. In space, it's a meteoroid. In Earth's atmosphere, it's a meteor. If it lands on Earth, it's a meteorite. Not probable for a meteor to escape Earth's atmosphere, so the statement appears to be true.

My attempts to get you on a technicality were unsuccessful. +1 for you sir.

(09-19-2023 09:10 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 08:50 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 09:36 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 09:13 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:08 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  How do you explain the SBC's rise above the Mountain West and MAC then?

The last time the MWC lost a school was 10 years before the SBC passed them in Massey, and the last time the MAC lost a football member was 4 years before the SBC passed them in Massey. As of now, they haven't passed us since we passed them.

That's not saying much.

The Sun Belt champion was once 5-7. Today, it's the highest rated G5 conference.

I'd say that's a meteoric rise.

It's an interesting phrase considering that meteors are always falling.

I had to look this up, but it's mostly true. In space, it's a meteoroid. In Earth's atmosphere, it's a meteor. If it lands on Earth, it's a meteorite. Not probable for a meteor to escape Earth's atmosphere, so the statement appears to be true.

My attempts to get you on a technicality were unsuccessful. +1 for you sir.

definition has 2 meanings

1 is like a meteor
2 is developing very fast and attracting a lot of attention

Sun belt rising is 2.