(09-18-2023 08:33 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  AP Poll this week shows Fresno State as highest G5 vote getter. Tulane is 2nd. No SBC programs are receiving votes.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-rankings/

The AP poll is less relevant than ever. Its just a marketing arm of the entertainment networks.

That being said so far Fresno State has been the most impressive G5 team to date.

Except....

A) Even though the CFP committee creates a poll and sets up the playoff participants, they don't actually crown a national champion. That distinction would mainly go to the two major human polls.

B) If you don't think the AP poll has influence on how the committee thinks, especially where it concerns G5s, then that would be mistaken.

For the people making the comments about the AP poll, I compiled this list on the Sun Belt Board and replaced SMU with Army for the AAC.

Cumulative Weeks in the AP Poll (2018-2022)

1. Sun Belt 63
----------App State 10
----------Louisiana 18
----------James Madison 1
----------Coastal Carolina 24
----------Troy 2
----------Marshall 8

2. Mountain West 57
----------Boise State 26
----------San Diego St 10
----------Fresno St 9
----------SJSU 3
----------Utah State 6
----------Air Force 3

3. AAC 40
----------Memphis 12
----------SMU 19
----------UTSA 9
----------Navy 7
----------Army 6
----------Tulsa 6
----------Tulane 9
----------South Florida 3

4. CUSA 10
----------Liberty 10

5. MAC 4
----------Buffalo 3
----------Ball State 1

(09-18-2023 10:02 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  For the people making the comments about the AP poll, I compiled this list on the Sun Belt Board and replaced SMU with Army for the AAC.

Cumulative Weeks in the AP Poll (2018-2022)

1. Sun Belt 63
----------App State 10
----------Louisiana 18
----------James Madison 1
----------Coastal Carolina 24
----------Troy 2
----------Marshall 8

2. Mountain West 57
----------Boise State 26
----------San Diego St 10
----------Fresno St 9
----------SJSU 3
----------Utah State 6
----------Air Force 3

3. AAC 40
----------Memphis 12
----------SMU 19
----------UTSA 9
----------Navy 7
----------Army 6
----------Tulsa 6
----------Tulane 9
----------South Florida 3

4. CUSA 10
----------Liberty 10

5. MAC 4
----------Buffalo 3
----------Ball State 1

(09-18-2023 09:52 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:33 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  AP Poll this week shows Fresno State as highest G5 vote getter. Tulane is 2nd. No SBC programs are receiving votes.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-rankings/

The AP poll is less relevant than ever. Its just a marketing arm of the entertainment networks.

That being said so far Fresno State has been the most impressive G5 team to date.

Except....

A) Even though the CFP committee creates a poll and sets up the playoff participants, they don't actually crown a national champion. That distinction would mainly go to the two major human polls.

B) If you don't think the AP poll has influence on how the committee thinks, especially where it concerns G5s, then that would be mistaken.

Exactly my point. The AP poll is likely going to go hand in hand with the Committee. Not entirely because the committee will look at some metrics, but it is a snapshot into the current situation.

Tulane beat K-State last year in the non conference, the same K-State team that played for the Big 12 title.

Tulane beat South Alabama handily a few weeks ago. The same South Alabama team that demolished Oklahoma State on the road. A SBC fan might think the South Alabama win was big for the Sun Belt, but at this point since USA lost by 20 to Tulane...an American program is ahead and will stay ahead of South Alabama. Tulane just handled Southern Miss on the road.

Texas State beat Baylor. They also lost to UTSA. UTSA lost to Army. So Texas State doesn't really get a ton of actual credit for beating Baylor.

Can't get too excited until the pollsters do.

(09-18-2023 07:52 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 07:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 06:46 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  According to Vegas odds, the Sun Belt is currently expected to go 7-1 this upcoming weekend against FBS non-conference opponents.

The expected loss? Wyoming is a 2.5 point favorite over Appalachian State (in Laramie).

By the same metric, the AAC is expected to go 0-8 vs. FBS non-conference opponents this upcoming weekend. If you include Army, it's 0-9.

According to Vegas odds, Iowa State beat Ohio University on Saturday by between 2 and 3 points, while the UC Bearcats beat the Miami Redhawks by two touchdowns. Fortunately for both Bricks, they still play the games, so they were both able to record a win.

I didn't say it's going to happen. Simply reporting odds. Obviously I want to beat Wyoming, and I think we can.

I am just pointing out that the odds for games that haven't been played yet is close to weightless as evidence for the argument at hand.

I think one of the things about the SBC is that we're all a bunch of small schools in small towns that no one wants. The big city schools can't stand it when we win. How dare a small school in WV or in Boone NC come in and win like we win. You wonder why we have a chip on our shoulder? It's because you put it there. So yes we are proud of where the SBC is now, why? Because none of you wanted us and it makes you all mad that we're winning. You've got the money and the markets and all the resources and that's supposed to equal wins... but guess what? It doesn't.

The Sun Belt is definitely positioned to be the best of the non-power conferences now and in the future. Theyll prove it on the field, not the polls. Its that simple.

(09-18-2023 11:17 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  I think one of the things about the SBC is that we're all a bunch of small schools in small towns that no one wants. ...

One thing about the locations of most Sunbelt schools is that it should set the conference up to be competitive as far as NIL collectives in competing for P5 athletes in the transfer portal who have been sitting on the bench and are looking for playing time. In playing that game, being the big fish in the small pond is likely to work well for more schools than being a small fish in a big pond.

(09-18-2023 10:02 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  For the people making the comments about the AP poll, I compiled this list on the Sun Belt Board and replaced SMU with Army for the AAC.

Cumulative Weeks in the AP Poll (2018-2022)

1. Sun Belt 63
----------App State 10
----------Louisiana 18
----------James Madison 1
----------Coastal Carolina 24
----------Troy 2
----------Marshall 8

2. Mountain West 57
----------Boise State 26
----------San Diego St 10
----------Fresno St 9
----------SJSU 3
----------Utah State 6
----------Air Force 3

3. AAC 40
----------Memphis 12
----------SMU 19
----------UTSA 9
----------Navy 7
----------Army 6
----------Tulsa 6
----------Tulane 9
----------South Florida 3

4. CUSA 10
----------Liberty 10

5. MAC 4
----------Buffalo 3
----------Ball State 1

Put the number of NY6 bowls next to each conference and see how that looks.

The Sun Belt is the top G5 league for now. Part of it is credit to the Sun Belt, but a majority of it is the implosion of the AAC, losing Houston, Cincy, and UCF and replacing them with North Texas, Charlotte, and Rice.

(09-18-2023 10:57 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 07:52 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 07:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 06:46 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  According to Vegas odds, the Sun Belt is currently expected to go 7-1 this upcoming weekend against FBS non-conference opponents.

The expected loss? Wyoming is a 2.5 point favorite over Appalachian State (in Laramie).

By the same metric, the AAC is expected to go 0-8 vs. FBS non-conference opponents this upcoming weekend. If you include Army, it's 0-9.

According to Vegas odds, Iowa State beat Ohio University on Saturday by between 2 and 3 points, while the UC Bearcats beat the Miami Redhawks by two touchdowns. Fortunately for both Bricks, they still play the games, so they were both able to record a win.

I didn't say it's going to happen. Simply reporting odds. Obviously I want to beat Wyoming, and I think we can.

I am just pointing out that the odds for games that haven't been played yet is close to weightless as evidence for the argument at hand.

I disagree with that. Odds are connected to expectations.

The odds saying the SBC is favored to go 7-1, and the AAC is favored to go 0-8, represents a big shift in expectations for both conferences. The odds didn't look like that 5 years ago. The perception has changed, which is at the heart of this thread.

(09-18-2023 11:17 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  I think one of the things about the SBC is that we're all a bunch of small schools in small towns that no one wants. The big city schools can't stand it when we win. How dare a small school in WV or in Boone NC come in and win like we win. You wonder why we have a chip on our shoulder? It's because you put it there. So yes we are proud of where the SBC is now, why? Because none of you wanted us and it makes you all mad that we're winning. You've got the money and the markets and all the resources and that's supposed to equal wins... but guess what? It doesn't.

This. Of course fans of SBC schools are excited about their collective success. Many of us (Marshall, App, Southern Miss, Georgia Southern, Louisiana, Troy, ULM, etc.) were told at some point that we weren't good enough to move up to a better conference. We were told that we weren't as valuable as who we once saw as peers (depending on the school, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, UNC-Charlotte, Middle Tennessee, Louisiana Tech, East Carolina, UAB, etc.). Since being told that, we've made success through ourselves, not by attaching ourselves to the success of others in a new conference.

People here love it when Big 12 posters pump their chests for being better better than the Pac-12, a conference that once rejected them.

But the minute Sun Belt posters do the same thing towards the AAC/CUSA, I've seen some people get annoyed? No, we also deserve the right to be prideful for passing schools who thought they were too good for us, just like Big 12 posters. We earned it.

I think there is a very good chance the SBC ends the season as the Top G5 this year. I am not sure they will get the access bowl or not, depends on how much they beat each other up. I think there are a couple programs from the AAC and MWC that have an easier path, and if Liberty goes undefeated they will be hard to jump as well.

(09-18-2023 11:34 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 10:02 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  For the people making the comments about the AP poll, I compiled this list on the Sun Belt Board and replaced SMU with Army for the AAC.

Cumulative Weeks in the AP Poll (2018-2022)

1. Sun Belt 63
----------App State 10
----------Louisiana 18
----------James Madison 1
----------Coastal Carolina 24
----------Troy 2
----------Marshall 8

2. Mountain West 57
----------Boise State 26
----------San Diego St 10
----------Fresno St 9
----------SJSU 3
----------Utah State 6
----------Air Force 3

3. AAC 40
----------Memphis 12
----------SMU 19
----------UTSA 9
----------Navy 7
----------Army 6
----------Tulsa 6
----------Tulane 9
----------South Florida 3

4. CUSA 10
----------Liberty 10

5. MAC 4
----------Buffalo 3
----------Ball State 1

Put the number of NY6 bowls next to each conference and see how that looks.

It really just eats you all up doesn't it

(09-18-2023 10:50 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 09:52 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:33 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 08:24 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  AP Poll this week shows Fresno State as highest G5 vote getter. Tulane is 2nd. No SBC programs are receiving votes.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...-rankings/

The AP poll is less relevant than ever. Its just a marketing arm of the entertainment networks.

That being said so far Fresno State has been the most impressive G5 team to date.

Except....

A) Even though the CFP committee creates a poll and sets up the playoff participants, they don't actually crown a national champion. That distinction would mainly go to the two major human polls.

B) If you don't think the AP poll has influence on how the committee thinks, especially where it concerns G5s, then that would be mistaken.

Exactly my point. The AP poll is likely going to go hand in hand with the Committee. Not entirely because the committee will look at some metrics, but it is a snapshot into the current situation.

Tulane beat K-State last year in the non conference, the same K-State team that played for the Big 12 title.

Tulane beat South Alabama handily a few weeks ago. The same South Alabama team that demolished Oklahoma State on the road. A SBC fan might think the South Alabama win was big for the Sun Belt, but at this point since USA lost by 20 to Tulane...an American program is ahead and will stay ahead of South Alabama. Tulane just handled Southern Miss on the road.

Texas State beat Baylor. They also lost to UTSA. UTSA lost to Army. So Texas State doesn't really get a ton of actual credit for beating Baylor.

Can't get too excited until the pollsters do.

These little transitive property simulations are only valuable when we have tons of data points and are directly comparing two teams to get into a NY6 slot.

Memphis is the only undefeated team in the American. They are the only ones that are pretty much guaranteed if they win out they will get the access bowl (if Fresno wins out I think they would get it over undefeated Memphis, maybe Marshall too)

Everyone else is playing catchup and hoping to catch a break over the course of the season, Tulane included.

(09-18-2023 12:19 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 11:17 AM)GreenBison Wrote:  I think one of the things about the SBC is that we're all a bunch of small schools in small towns that no one wants. The big city schools can't stand it when we win. How dare a small school in WV or in Boone NC come in and win like we win. You wonder why we have a chip on our shoulder? It's because you put it there. So yes we are proud of where the SBC is now, why? Because none of you wanted us and it makes you all mad that we're winning. You've got the money and the markets and all the resources and that's supposed to equal wins... but guess what? It doesn't.

This. Of course fans of SBC schools are excited about their collective success. Many of us (Marshall, App, Southern Miss, Georgia Southern, Louisiana, Troy, ULM, etc.) were told at some point that we weren't good enough to move up to a better conference. We were told that we weren't as valuable as who we once saw as peers (depending on the school, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, UNC-Charlotte, Middle Tennessee, Louisiana Tech, East Carolina, UAB, etc.). Since being told that, we've made success through ourselves, not by attaching ourselves to the success of others in a new conference.

People here love it when Big 12 posters pump their chests for being better better than the Pac-12, a conference that once rejected them.

But the minute Sun Belt posters do the same thing towards the AAC/CUSA, I've seen some people get annoyed? No, we also deserve the right to be prideful for passing schools who thought they were too good for us, just like Big 12 posters. We earned it.

College football fans are just regular people, they don't like things/institutions that challenge their world view. Everyone assumed that the SBC would remain the worst conference and they don't like it when evidence is presented that challenges their beliefs.

(09-18-2023 12:28 AM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 12:09 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  I also find it funny how you are cherry-picking certain stats to bolster your claim. Why not bring up men's soccer attendance like you did basketball?

I can, if you insist.

The SBC is #2 nationally in men's soccer attendance.

But the overall number....?

(09-18-2023 06:13 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 12:09 AM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 08:33 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote:  

(09-17-2023 06:57 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  It's easier for a Belt football program to be strong when its university's overall athletics focus renders men's hoops essentially an afterthought.

Marshall has as many NCAA March Madness Tournament wins in the last 10 years as Memphis. Afterthought my rear end.

The SBC DOUBLED its men's basketball attendance this year. The SBC DOUBLED its mens basketball national television appearances last year. They are implementing new scheduling standards for men's basketball. With teams like JMU, ODU, Marshall, Southern Miss now in the league, there is a basketball focus.

With the huge leaps this league has been making across the board in the last three years, I am looking forward to seeing where this league is going in men's basketball too. This league is ALOT better than people are giving it credit for in basketball. And really, all the gyms in this league are high quality. JMU and Georgia State have just opened brand new facilities in the last two years.

It doubled because four new teams consistently average that number, not because any of the remaining ten give a hoot. In the decade we were in the Belt, us and Louisiana were the only schools above 2,000 consistently.

You'll find the SBC will be a one-bid league as it has been for the better part of a decade and a half.

I also find it funny how you are cherry-picking certain stats to bolster your claim. Why not bring up men's soccer attendance like you did basketball? Truth is, the SBC finished this past year in roughly the same spot they've been in the recent past. ...

Pointing to football and basketball attendance is not "cherry picking" ... they are the two main revenue college sports in this country.

It is also true that the picture painted by the SBC attendance stats seems to be less the SBC programs "building up" their basketball programs and more the SBC "building up" its basketball relevance by adding schools that raised the SBC's average basketball quality, but as far as conference NET, that still counts.

It's also true that last season, the American had one at-large NCAA bid, and two at-large NIT bids, while the Sunbelt only had its automatic bid in the NCAA, with its NCAA automatic bid seeded five spots lower than the second of the American's teams, its regular season champion having to take the NIT spot, and its only at-large bid in the NIT.

Still, the NCAA 1-seed from the American and both of the at-large NIT bids are now in the Big12, and having an NIT at-large bid is a step up from where the Sunbelt was five years ago in basketball.

So whether the AAC remains substantially better than the Sunbelt in basketball when the rubber hits the road is still something to be determined.

He couldn't point to any actual success in basketball, but said the SBC attendance doubled. That's a terrible metric because they replaced two schools that drew 1,500-2,000 at the time of their departure with four schools who drew what they always do. The rest drew roughly what they have in recent years. How does that prove the SBC is "on the rise" in men's basketball?

Good for the SBC, seriously... but isn't it obvious that when the 'top' G5, by almost every metric, keeps losing it's top teams... this is one of the consequences?

People keep acting like that didn't just happen...