(01-06-2022 01:28 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  FULL STAFF:


https://www.etsubucs.com/football/news/2...ing-staff/



https://www.etsubucs.com/football/coaches/

Great news!

(01-04-2022 05:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Taylor named Associate Head Coach, according to Kingsport Times News/Johnson City Press.

The job title is interesting. My guess is they had to create a new job title to be able to pay him more coin, and/or keep him happy and make him HC heir-apparent. Likely both. Would be interesting to see his salary for 2021 vs. 2022. How many other DII teams have such a title? I know there are some, but is it common?

(01-06-2022 02:51 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Taylor named Associate Head Coach, according to Kingsport Times News/Johnson City Press.

The job title is interesting. My guess is they had to create a new job title to be able to pay him more coin, and/or keep him happy and make him HC heir-apparent. Likely both. Would be interesting to see his salary for 2021 vs. 2022. How many other DII teams have such a title? I know there are some, but is it common?

Lots of Associate Head Coaches out there.

(I know you know ETSU is not a DII team.)

(01-06-2022 02:58 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 02:51 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Taylor named Associate Head Coach, according to Kingsport Times News/Johnson City Press.

The job title is interesting. My guess is they had to create a new job title to be able to pay him more coin, and/or keep him happy and make him HC heir-apparent. Likely both. Would be interesting to see his salary for 2021 vs. 2022. How many other DII teams have such a title? I know there are some, but is it common?

Lots of Associate Head Coaches out there.

(I know you know ETSU is not a DII team.)

Yeah, sorry, I meant I-AA. So how many are there in I-AA?

(01-06-2022 02:58 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 02:51 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Taylor named Associate Head Coach, according to Kingsport Times News/Johnson City Press.

The job title is interesting. My guess is they had to create a new job title to be able to pay him more coin, and/or keep him happy and make him HC heir-apparent. Likely both. Would be interesting to see his salary for 2021 vs. 2022. How many other DII teams have such a title? I know there are some, but is it common?

Lots of Associate Head Coaches out there.

(I know you know ETSU is not a DII team.)

I have his posts hidden but since you quoted it, I can see it. Wish I couldn't.
Taylor graduated in 88, Quarles in 89. So roughly the same age, Doesn't seem like
The head coach in waiting, throw in the fact that Taylor has now been passed over not once, not twice but three times for the Head Coach job I doubt a promise of you will get it next time would do much. I would guess Taylor and his family like the area, they are settled, he is a local hero and they tossed money at him and promised to keep his staff intact.

As for the made-up title. I guess Furman made it up for Quarles because he was "Associate Head Coach" there. Not every team in Div I (no idea about Div II or why it was brought up) has one of course but they aren't that rare.

(01-06-2022 02:51 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Taylor named Associate Head Coach, according to Kingsport Times News/Johnson City Press.

The job title is interesting. My guess is they had to create a new job title to be able to pay him more coin, and/or keep him happy and make him HC heir-apparent. Likely both. Would be interesting to see his salary for 2021 vs. 2022. How many other DII teams have such a title? I know there are some, but is it common?

Based on history, Taylor will never be head coach at ETSU as long as Scott Carter is AD. Even though, in my opinion Taylor was more qualified, Carter just doesn't agree. I believe that Carter made this decision on an island and I know a lot of people were not happy about it. If Quarles doesn't work out I think Carter is fired so maybe Taylor would have a shot then.

(01-06-2022 03:46 PM)Buc Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 02:51 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(01-04-2022 05:58 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  Taylor named Associate Head Coach, according to Kingsport Times News/Johnson City Press.

The job title is interesting. My guess is they had to create a new job title to be able to pay him more coin, and/or keep him happy and make him HC heir-apparent. Likely both. Would be interesting to see his salary for 2021 vs. 2022. How many other DII teams have such a title? I know there are some, but is it common?

Based on history, Taylor will never be head coach at ETSU as long as Scott Carter is AD. Even though, in my opinion Taylor was more qualified, Carter just doesn't agree. I believe that Carter made this decision on an island and I know a lot of people were not happy about it. If Quarles doesn't work out I think Carter is fired so maybe Taylor would have a shot then.

Say what?

Let me re-phrase my question: If Taylor is never going to be HC, then why the new title? It *has* to be to 'justify' the new, higher salary.

Associate Head Coach is a pretty common job title throughout the country. Tennessee Tech has one, Austin Peay has an "Assistant Head Coach", and other TN schools have Associate Head Coaches in many other sports (UTK- Basketball, UTC- Softball, Memphis- Baseball, etc.). I will also be interested to see Taylor's new salary- his previous salary ($102,295) was significantly more than Mike Rader's ($82,572). I also wonder how much Rader's salary will be decreased with the move away from Offensive Coordinator.

(01-06-2022 04:48 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Let me re-phrase my question: If Taylor is never going to be HC, then why the new title? It *has* to be to 'justify' the new, higher salary.

Here's an article listing some of the myriad meanings of coaching job titles: SBNation

Likely, you are right: "Some state schools require this title [Associate Head Coach] slapped on in order to reach a certain salary band."

(Also, sorry, no more division I-AA either. The Bucs are Division I, and play in the FCS — Football Championship Subdivision.)

(01-06-2022 03:46 PM)Buc Wrote:  Based on history, Taylor will never be head coach at ETSU as long as Scott Carter is AD. Even though, in my opinion Taylor was more qualified, Carter just doesn't agree. I believe that Carter made this decision on an island and I know a lot of people were not happy about it. If Quarles doesn't work out I think Carter is fired so maybe Taylor would have a shot then.

I think you're right that college A.D.s often put their jobs on the line when they hire a new head coach for football (and for men's basketball, too). But, the nine Sanders' assistants who are joining Quarles' staff would indicate they are not displeased with Carter's choice. And, judging from the reception Quarles received when he was introduced during the VMI game, the fans seem pretty happy to have him.

(01-06-2022 04:48 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Let me re-phrase my question: If Taylor is never going to be HC, then why the new title? It *has* to be to 'justify' the new, higher salary.

You might be right that the new title was required to give him a bump in pay. I won't debate that point. I do stand by my opinion that he will never be head coach with Carter at the helm. I don't think that is a stretch considering Carter has chosen other coaches twice now and frankly I don't see how anyone can argue that Taylor was not more qualified. Quarles had an outstanding high school career but a mediocre at best college experience. Taylor has had a very long and successful college career. I really don't understand how anyone would pick the high school success over college success but again they didn't ask me. I hope Quarles is very successful at ETSU for a variety of reasons including that it likely means that Taylor coaches as long as he wants to

(01-06-2022 09:11 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:48 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Let me re-phrase my question: If Taylor is never going to be HC, then why the new title? It *has* to be to 'justify' the new, higher salary.

Here's an article listing some of the myriad meanings of coaching job titles: SBNation

Likely, you are right: "Some state schools require this title [Associate Head Coach] slapped on in order to reach a certain salary band."

(Also, sorry, no more division I-AA either. The Bucs are Division I, and play in the FCS — Football Championship Subdivision.)

Hmmm Did you know that while at Tennesee Tech Taylor "drumroll" also served as associate head coach,
I mean take a minute and read his bio on the official site and he wasn't even the DC when he got that, just insider linebackers coach.

"While at Tech, he also served as associate head coach, while directing the team’s inside linebackers."

(01-06-2022 10:49 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 03:46 PM)Buc Wrote:  Based on history, Taylor will never be head coach at ETSU as long as Scott Carter is AD. Even though, in my opinion Taylor was more qualified, Carter just doesn't agree. I believe that Carter made this decision on an island and I know a lot of people were not happy about it. If Quarles doesn't work out I think Carter is fired so maybe Taylor would have a shot then.

I think you're right that college A.D.s often put their jobs on the line when they hire a new head coach for football (and for men's basketball, too). But, the nine Sanders' assistants who are joining Quarles' staff would indicate they are not displeased with Carter's choice. And, judging from the reception Quarles received when he was introduced during the VMI game, the fans seem pretty happy to have him.

Do you really believe that? The assistants staying only means that they couldn't find a better option than what they now have. Each assistant determines what their definition of "better" is. Rader was interested in the HC job but got demoted. You think he is happy about that because he appears to be staying. You think Taylor is "not displeased" with Carter's choice? He is staying because staying was the best for him however he defines it. I am guessing an assistant or two probably had no other options. College coaching is a tough career and a lot of assistants are just glad to have a job

Regarding fans at the game, of course you should cheer for the new coach even if you think the AD screwed up. Let me just say that I personally think that if he hired Taylor and Taylor sucked as a head coach... Carter still has a job. If Quarles sucks, I think Carter is likely fired. Just an opinion. I very well could be wrong and for the record again I hope Quarles is successful

So who got the boot? Quarles brought in 2 guys so that means two guys on the offensive side got released.

(01-06-2022 09:11 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:48 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Let me re-phrase my question: If Taylor is never going to be HC, then why the new title? It *has* to be to 'justify' the new, higher salary.

Likely, you are right: "Some state schools require this title [Associate Head Coach] slapped on in order to reach a certain salary band."

(Also, sorry, no more division I-AA either. The Bucs are Division I, and play in the FCS — Football Championship Subdivision.)

Of course. We know that. But I-AA is much easier to distinguish than between FCS and FBS, which are acronyms with two of the three letters the same. I-AA is much easier to remember. And yeah, UTC is now "Chattanooga", UNC-G wants to be UNCG, SWMS wants to be "Missouri St.", the Ragin' Cajuns want to be "Louisiana"; and Milligan, King, and Tusculum colleges want to be universities. Etc. I-AA is by definition and title, also Division I. So it's not wrong to say the Bucs play in Div. I-AA, is it? (And..........what *is* the difference, if there is one? Isn't it just rebranding?)

Okay.........you can just say I'm old-fashioned and/or stuck in the past, and in this case I'll wear that shoe.

(01-06-2022 11:40 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 09:11 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:48 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Let me re-phrase my question: If Taylor is never going to be HC, then why the new title? It *has* to be to 'justify' the new, higher salary.

Here's an article listing some of the myriad meanings of coaching job titles: SBNation

Likely, you are right: "Some state schools require this title [Associate Head Coach] slapped on in order to reach a certain salary band."

Hmmm Did you know that while at Tennesee Tech Taylor "drumroll" also served as associate head coach,
I mean take a minute and read his bio on the official site and he wasn't even the DC when he got that, just insider linebackers coach.

"While at Tech, he also served as associate head coach, while directing the team’s inside linebackers."

Nope; had no idea, and it doesn't really matter. That's not AT ALL my point. I'm more concerned about the absurd growth/explosion in staff for college athletic teams. It's really a pet peeve of mine. Sometimes, you'll be watching a college football game (and it's *almost* as true for basketball, too), you'll be looking at the sidelines and see almost as many staff as players. And by "staff" I mean all the associated waterboys, watergirls, trainers, GAs, etc., etc., etc. Do we *really* need both an inside linebackers' coach, AND in outside linebackers' coach? And the salaries that go with that? Who are these "quality control" guys on staff? Do we really need TWO guys who at least are partly "NFL Pro Liasison" people?? I wasn't planning on doing this, but as of now there are NINETEEN on the football staff, and that may well not be all by the time he finishes hiring. Come on. You know John Robert Bell is rolling over and over in his grave. He'd not even believe it. And I know............."everybody else is doing it, so we got to". As I've said in this forum multiple times, that doesn't make something right. It's like an arms race; it really is. Where does it stop? You wanna try to explain to John Robert Bell why there are NINETEEN guys on the coaching staff? I wouldn't want to try.

The reason this is a pet peeve of mine is that it mirrors the absurd explosion in academic positions and *layers* of bureaucracy than came about here in the '80s with DeRosier. No need to go down that road, but it really changed the character of the university to one that's less personable, and terribly bloated. I'm sure some of you who would know these things know I'm right about that.

My point about "Associate Head Coach" is that it's yet another position, yet more money, yet more bloating - without any explanation. I'm not at all anti-Billy Taylor. He's done an admirable job. I think he's less a genius than some here, but I think he's done well. And I have no dog fighting whatsoever as to whether he'll be the coach-in-waiting or not. That title just sort of gives that aura, but we all know whenever Quarles leaves, that means NOTHING as to who will be the new HC. I just hate the lack of transparency throughout the athletic dept., and the university as a whole, for that matter. I want to know the specifics of shay's deal, etc. I don't have time left in my life to file a bunch of FOIAs.

Really...................can someone explain to me why one man can't coach both inside and outside linebackers? And save that $60K, or whatever it might be. Yes, I know there are definite differences and nuances between the positions, but after all, 4th grade teachers are expected to teach math, social studies, English, Science, etc.

Ok..............rant over. Stepping down from my pulpit, at least for now.

(01-07-2022 04:42 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 11:40 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 09:11 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 04:48 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Let me re-phrase my question: If Taylor is never going to be HC, then why the new title? It *has* to be to 'justify' the new, higher salary.

Here's an article listing some of the myriad meanings of coaching job titles: SBNation

Likely, you are right: "Some state schools require this title [Associate Head Coach] slapped on in order to reach a certain salary band."

Hmmm Did you know that while at Tennesee Tech Taylor "drumroll" also served as associate head coach,
I mean take a minute and read his bio on the official site and he wasn't even the DC when he got that, just insider linebackers coach.

"While at Tech, he also served as associate head coach, while directing the team’s inside linebackers."

Nope; had no idea, and it doesn't really matter. That's not AT ALL my point. I'm more concerned about the absurd growth/explosion in staff for college athletic teams. It's really a pet peeve of mine. Sometimes, you'll be watching a college football game (and it's *almost* as true for basketball, too), you'll be looking at the sidelines and see almost as many staff as players. And by "staff" I mean all the associated waterboys, watergirls, trainers, GAs, etc., etc., etc. Do we *really* need both an inside linebackers' coach, AND in outside linebackers' coach? And the salaries that go with that? Who are these "quality control" guys on staff? Do we really need TWO guys who at least are partly "NFL Pro Liasison" people?? I wasn't planning on doing this, but as of now there are NINETEEN on the football staff, and that may well not be all by the time he finishes hiring. Come on. You know John Robert Bell is rolling over and over in his grave. He'd not even believe it. And I know............."everybody else is doing it, so we got to". As I've said in this forum multiple times, that doesn't make something right. It's like an arms race; it really is. Where does it stop? You wanna try to explain to John Robert Bell why there are NINETEEN guys on the coaching staff? I wouldn't want to try.

The reason this is a pet peeve of mine is that it mirrors the absurd explosion in academic positions and *layers* of bureaucracy than came about here in the '80s with DeRosier. No need to go down that road, but it really changed the character of the university to one that's less personable, and terribly bloated. I'm sure some of you who would know these things know I'm right about that.

My point about "Associate Head Coach" is that it's yet another position, yet more money, yet more bloating - without any explanation. I'm not at all anti-Billy Taylor. He's done an admirable job. I think he's less a genius than some here, but I think he's done well. And I have no dog fighting whatsoever as to whether he'll be the coach-in-waiting or not. That title just sort of gives that aura, but we all know whenever Quarles leaves, that means NOTHING as to who will be the new HC. I just hate the lack of transparency throughout the athletic dept., and the university as a whole, for that matter. I want to know the specifics of shay's deal, etc. I don't have time left in my life to file a bunch of FOIAs.

Really...................can someone explain to me why one man can't coach both inside and outside linebackers? And save that $60K, or whatever it might be. Yes, I know there are definite differences and nuances between the positions, but after all, 4th grade teachers are expected to teach math, social studies, English, Science, etc.

Ok..............rant over. Stepping down from my pulpit, at least for now.

Where can one see the ETSU athletic budget, the detailed budget, showing all income sources and all expenditures. It would appear that there is no shortages there as they seem to spend the money. This was a BIG topic back in the day when football was dropped. But, if I remember — the overall athletic budget increased year after year without football, exposing — maybe one could call some lies. Anyway - back to today’s budget.

(01-06-2022 11:57 PM)Buc Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 10:49 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  I think you're right that college A.D.s often put their jobs on the line when they hire a new head coach for football (and for men's basketball, too). But, the nine Sanders' assistants who are joining Quarles' staff would indicate they are not displeased with Carter's choice. And, judging from the reception Quarles received when he was introduced during the VMI game, the fans seem pretty happy to have him.

Do you really believe that? The assistants staying only means that they couldn't find a better option than what they now have. Each assistant determines what their definition of "better" is. Rader was interested in the HC job but got demoted. You think he is happy about that because he appears to be staying. You think Taylor is "not displeased" with Carter's choice? He is staying because staying was the best for him however he defines it. I am guessing an assistant or two probably had no other options. College coaching is a tough career and a lot of assistants are just glad to have a job

Regarding fans at the game, of course you should cheer for the new coach even if you think the AD screwed up. Let me just say that I personally think that if he hired Taylor and Taylor sucked as a head coach... Carter still has a job. If Quarles sucks, I think Carter is likely fired. Just an opinion. I very well could be wrong and for the record again I hope Quarles is successful

I believe I arrived at my opinions objectively, without the emotional influence you may experience as a personal friend of Coach Taylor's. Either way, you and I agree that assistant coaches will choose the "better" option when deciding what job offer to accept. In this case, it appears that working for Coach Quarles is the best option for all nine of the holdovers. From that, it seems obvious they all have a certain level of confidence in Quarles' as a head coach.

I guess an alternate explanation might be that nobody else wants our assistant coaches, and they had no other options. But, neither you nor I believe that. Certainly there are many schools that would gladly hire Taylor as their defensive coordinator. On the other hand, it doesn't appear there are other schools seeking to hire him as their head coach. Or, maybe he's not interested in coaching elsewhere. Maybe, in a period where offense is predominate, schools are seeking offensive minded coaches to head their programs. Maybe he simply doesn't have the "it" factor to be a head coach. Regardless, he's certainly an assistant with choices, and he chose to join Quarles' staff.

Coach Rader's "demotion" would appear to be in title only. Coach Sanders was always the de facto offensive coordinator. It's notable that Rader was head coach at Maryville College during the time Quarles was coaching Maryville H.S. He and Quarles have known each other for a long time, and Rader has chosen to join Quarles' staff — in spite of getting a lesser title. Again, the evidence seems to indicate faith in Quarles going forward.

Look at it this way: If all, or most, of the current assistants had turned down Coach Quarles' offer to join his staff, would that indicate to you they have a positive or negative opinion of the new head coach?

All nine offered assistants (at least two of whom may have bruised feelings) decided to join Quarles' staff. I just don't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than a reflection of their positive opinions of Quarles going forward.

(01-07-2022 10:26 AM)Flippmb Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 11:57 PM)Buc Wrote:  

(01-06-2022 10:49 PM)Flippmb Wrote:  I think you're right that college A.D.s often put their jobs on the line when they hire a new head coach for football (and for men's basketball, too). But, the nine Sanders' assistants who are joining Quarles' staff would indicate they are not displeased with Carter's choice. And, judging from the reception Quarles received when he was introduced during the VMI game, the fans seem pretty happy to have him.

Do you really believe that? The assistants staying only means that they couldn't find a better option than what they now have. Each assistant determines what their definition of "better" is. Rader was interested in the HC job but got demoted. You think he is happy about that because he appears to be staying. You think Taylor is "not displeased" with Carter's choice? He is staying because staying was the best for him however he defines it. I am guessing an assistant or two probably had no other options. College coaching is a tough career and a lot of assistants are just glad to have a job

Regarding fans at the game, of course you should cheer for the new coach even if you think the AD screwed up. Let me just say that I personally think that if he hired Taylor and Taylor sucked as a head coach... Carter still has a job. If Quarles sucks, I think Carter is likely fired. Just an opinion. I very well could be wrong and for the record again I hope Quarles is successful

I believe I arrived at my opinions objectively, without the emotional influence you may experience as a personal friend of Coach Taylor's. Either way, you and I agree that assistant coaches will choose the "better" option when deciding what job offer to accept. In this case, it appears that working for Coach Quarles is the best option for all nine of the holdovers. From that, it seems obvious they all have a certain level of confidence in Quarles' as a head coach.

I guess an alternate explanation might be that nobody else wants our assistant coaches, and they had no other options. But, neither you nor I believe that. Certainly there are many schools that would gladly hire Taylor as their defensive coordinator. On the other hand, it doesn't appear there are other schools seeking to hire him as their head coach. Or, maybe he's not interested in coaching elsewhere. Maybe, in a period where offense is predominate, schools are seeking offensive minded coaches to head their programs. Maybe he simply doesn't have the "it" factor to be a head coach. Regardless, he's certainly an assistant with choices, and he chose to join Quarles' staff.

Coach Rader's "demotion" would appear to be in title only. Coach Sanders was always the de facto offensive coordinator. It's notable that Rader was head coach at Maryville College during the time Quarles was coaching Maryville H.S. He and Quarles have known each other for a long time, and Rader has chosen to join Quarles' staff — in spite of getting a lesser title. Again, the evidence seems to indicate faith in Quarles going forward.

Look at it this way: If all, or most, of the current assistants had turned down Coach Quarles' offer to join his staff, would that indicate to you they have a positive or negative opinion of the new head coach?

All nine offered assistants (at least two of whom may have bruised feelings) decided to join Quarles' staff. I just don't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than a reflection of their positive opinions of Quarles going forward.

I agree with this.