(09-13-2021 09:34 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.

Thank you for that insight. I've speculated that the AAC would seek more established programs in FBS, and if they couldn't get Boise or other lucrative additions from the Mountain West, that current AAC members would likely turn to new states, new markets, and old friends to schools like UAB, Southern Miss, and Marshall. Also, I'm not fully understanding why the AAC would add 4 schools to replace 3 members. That doesn't make sense unless Navy leaves.

The AAC is down 4 members. The conference never replaced UConn. thus the need to add 4 schools if the conference is going back to 12 for all sports.

(09-12-2021 08:09 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

As a Tiger fan, I strenuous object to Ark St because they offer nothing for Memphis and are dangerous. Red Wolf fans should take my objection as a compliment.

Compliment taken. Thank you. Enjoyed the game Saturday despite the loss. I'm glad we're playing each other again.

As for stAte being considered you will notice fans from Jonesboro aren't over here promoting the move. I think most are realistic enough to know that the lack of basketball and baseball success has really hurt. And being only an hour from Memphis kind of hurts as well. So fans are resigned to standing by and seeing how this shakes out. Football is on a return path under Butch and we're hoping to see better basketball this year but until there is a commitment to finance all sports better stAte will be where it is.

(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.

I would never argue with you on expansion, but i will argue this one point. You mention ECU “elevating” App State. How would ECU elevate them? Did you see their game in Charlotte on 9/2? More App fans than ECU fans. Did you see ECU’s game against USC at Home? Lucky to have 35k in the seats. App has equal, if not better facilities than ECU, save for the fact ECU has a 50k seat stadium they can’t fill. App has just as good of fan support and they already beat ECU on the recruiting trail regularly. I just don’t agree with the notion that ECU “elevates” App at all.

As far as the “new success” angle goes. App has had 2 losing seasons since 1980, one of which was during the transition to FBS and most of the roster was redshirted. I totally get the argument, but App and Charlotte are no where near the same stratosphere and shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same breath for this conversation. App also doesn’t fit what you’re describing as new found success. They’ve been the most consistent football program in NC for nearly 40 years. It’s not like they weren’t playing with 65 scholarships in FCS either, the playing field was level and they had tons of success. ECU would help elevate UNCC, but App? Nope.

(09-13-2021 10:32 AM)App10 Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.

I would never argue with you on expansion, but i will argue this one point. You mention ECU “elevating” App State. How would ECU elevate them? Did you see their game in Charlotte on 9/2? More App fans than ECU fans. Did you see ECU’s game against USC at Home? Lucky to have 35k in the seats. App has equal, if not better facilities than ECU, save for the fact ECU has a 50k seat stadium they can’t fill. App has just as good of fan support and they already beat ECU on the recruiting trail regularly. I just don’t agree with the notion that ECU “elevates” App at all.

homer rant
who is winning now has nothing to do with elevating... wake forest is terrible at things, if someone said wake doesnt want to elevate ecu, app in the acc... saying you can beat them now is completely irrelevant to the conversation

and your equal fan points hurts your overall point with ANY context... boone is closer to charlotte than Greensville....ECU has had 7 consecutive horrible seasons ..app state has had 7 consecutive great seasons...he idea that the fan totals were roughly equal, 55/45 is crazy

i also don't get the attendance jab ...1) its covid no one has full stadium...35k is amazing for a terrible team in covid
2) since 2017 app states stadium has had 30k capacity, despite dominance in that time span, app state has only sold out the 30k once

you had 20k end of season attended games on 11 win season (which is horrible)...winless ECU would draw more.. the idea you have "just as good fan support" is laughable

recruiting rankings
2020- ecu 74 app state 85 -- 2019 ecu 78 app state 99 .. 2018 ecu 89 app 113
app state has never out recruited ecu ever...

and these rankings dont include transfers where ecu regularly lands sec transfers .... again this is with the context of ecu being terrible for 6 straight seasons and app state have consecutive great season

if ecu had regularly 11 win seasons, like app state (which they probably could in the Sunbelt) they be DESTROYING App state in attendance and recruiting ..cu was doing 45-50k attendance on 8 win c-usa teams

but back tothe actual point --elevating has nothing to do with who is winning now, but prevent having an even playing field in the eyes of recruits and causal state fans

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 10:32 AM)App10 Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.

I would never argue with you on expansion, but i will argue this one point. You mention ECU “elevating” App State. How would ECU elevate them? Did you see their game in Charlotte on 9/2? More App fans than ECU fans. Did you see ECU’s game against USC at Home? Lucky to have 35k in the seats. App has equal, if not better facilities than ECU, save for the fact ECU has a 50k seat stadium they can’t fill. App has just as good of fan support and they already beat ECU on the recruiting trail regularly. I just don’t agree with the notion that ECU “elevates” App at all.

homer rant
who is winning now has nothing to do with elevating... wake forest is terrible at things, if someone said wake doesnt want to elevate ecu, app in the aac... saying you can beat them now is completely irrelevant to the conversation

and your equal fan points hurts your overall point with ANY context... boone is closer to charlotte than Greensville....ECU has had 7 consecutive horrible seasons ..app state has had 7 consecutive great seasons...he idea that the fan totals were roughly equal, 55/45 is crazy

i also don't get the attendance jab ...1) its covid no one has full stadium...35k is amazing for a terrible team in covid
2) since 2017 app states stadium has had 30k capacity, despite dominance in that time span, app state has only sold out the 30k once

you had 20k end of season attended games on 11 win season (which is horrible)...winless ECU would draw more.. the idea you have "just as good fan support" is laughable

recruiting rankings
2020- ecu 74 app state 85 -- 2019 ecu 78 app state 99 .. 2018 ecu 89 app 113
app state has never out recruited ecu ever...

and these rankings dont include transfers where ecu regularly lands sec transfers .... again this is with the context of ecu being terrible for 6 straight seasons and app state have consecutive great season

if ecu had regularly 11 win seasons, like app state (which they probably could in the Sunbelt) they be DESTROYING App state in attendance and recruiting

but back tothe actual point --elevating has nothing to do with who is winning now, but prevent having an even playing field in the eyes of recruits and causal state fans

I stopped reading after you said “who is winning now”. My post had next to nothing to do with App winning now. It’s just a fact that ECU doesn’t have anything to offer App as far as elevation. An AAC patch on the jersey doesn’t change that.

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 10:32 AM)App10 Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.

I would never argue with you on expansion, but i will argue this one point. You mention ECU “elevating” App State. How would ECU elevate them? Did you see their game in Charlotte on 9/2? More App fans than ECU fans. Did you see ECU’s game against USC at Home? Lucky to have 35k in the seats. App has equal, if not better facilities than ECU, save for the fact ECU has a 50k seat stadium they can’t fill. App has just as good of fan support and they already beat ECU on the recruiting trail regularly. I just don’t agree with the notion that ECU “elevates” App at all.

homer rant
who is winning now has nothing to do with elevating... wake forest is terrible at things, if someone said wake doesnt want to elevate ecu, app in the acc... saying you can beat them now is completely irrelevant to the conversation

and your equal fan points hurts your overall point with ANY context... boone is closer to charlotte than Greensville....ECU has had 7 consecutive horrible seasons ..app state has had 7 consecutive great seasons...he idea that the fan totals were roughly equal, 55/45 is crazy

i also don't get the attendance jab ...1) its covid no one has full stadium...35k is amazing for a terrible team in covid
2) since 2017 app states stadium has had 30k capacity, despite dominance in that time span, app state has only sold out the 30k once

you had 20k end of season attended games on 11 win season (which is horrible)...winless ECU would draw more.. the idea you have "just as good fan support" is laughable

recruiting rankings
2020- ecu 74 app state 85 -- 2019 ecu 78 app state 99 .. 2018 ecu 89 app 113
app state has never out recruited ecu ever...

and these rankings dont include transfers where ecu regularly lands sec transfers .... again this is with the context of ecu being terrible for 6 straight seasons and app state have consecutive great season

if ecu had regularly 11 win seasons, like app state (which they probably could in the Sunbelt) they be DESTROYING App state in attendance and recruiting ..cu was doing 45-50k attendance on 8 win c-usa teams

but back tothe actual point --elevating has nothing to do with who is winning now, but prevent having an even playing field in the eyes of recruits and causal state fans

Also App out recruited ECU for the ‘21 class. And if you read what I said I said App was beating out ECU for recruits they both pursue, not that App was having higher ranked classes. Also, those recruiting ranking dont mean much when App is a perennial winner and ECU hasn’t had a winning season going on 7 years.

(09-13-2021 09:50 AM)panite Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 09:34 AM)All4One Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.

Thank you for that insight. I've speculated that the AAC would seek more established programs in FBS, and if they couldn't get Boise or other lucrative additions from the Mountain West, that current AAC members would likely turn to new states, new markets, and old friends to schools like UAB, Southern Miss, and Marshall. Also, I'm not fully understanding why the AAC would add 4 schools to replace 3 members. That doesn't make sense unless Navy leaves.

The AAC is down 4 members. The conference never replaced UConn. thus the need to add 4 schools if the conference is going back to 12 for all sports.

I totally forgot UConn even existed much less as a member of the AAC. Thank you for that clarification. That makes sense.

(09-13-2021 11:15 AM)App10 Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 10:32 AM)App10 Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.

I would never argue with you on expansion, but i will argue this one point. You mention ECU “elevating” App State. How would ECU elevate them? Did you see their game in Charlotte on 9/2? More App fans than ECU fans. Did you see ECU’s game against USC at Home? Lucky to have 35k in the seats. App has equal, if not better facilities than ECU, save for the fact ECU has a 50k seat stadium they can’t fill. App has just as good of fan support and they already beat ECU on the recruiting trail regularly. I just don’t agree with the notion that ECU “elevates” App at all.

homer rant
who is winning now has nothing to do with elevating... wake forest is terrible at things, if someone said wake doesnt want to elevate ecu, app in the acc... saying you can beat them now is completely irrelevant to the conversation

and your equal fan points hurts your overall point with ANY context... boone is closer to charlotte than Greensville....ECU has had 7 consecutive horrible seasons ..app state has had 7 consecutive great seasons...he idea that the fan totals were roughly equal, 55/45 is crazy

i also don't get the attendance jab ...1) its covid no one has full stadium...35k is amazing for a terrible team in covid
2) since 2017 app states stadium has had 30k capacity, despite dominance in that time span, app state has only sold out the 30k once

you had 20k end of season attended games on 11 win season (which is horrible)...winless ECU would draw more.. the idea you have "just as good fan support" is laughable

recruiting rankings
2020- ecu 74 app state 85 -- 2019 ecu 78 app state 99 .. 2018 ecu 89 app 113
app state has never out recruited ecu ever...

and these rankings dont include transfers where ecu regularly lands sec transfers .... again this is with the context of ecu being terrible for 6 straight seasons and app state have consecutive great season

if ecu had regularly 11 win seasons, like app state (which they probably could in the Sunbelt) they be DESTROYING App state in attendance and recruiting ..cu was doing 45-50k attendance on 8 win c-usa teams

but back tothe actual point --elevating has nothing to do with who is winning now, but prevent having an even playing field in the eyes of recruits and causal state fans

Also App out recruited ECU for the ‘21 class. And if you read what I said I said App was beating out ECU for recruits they both pursue, not that App was having higher ranked classes. Also, those recruiting ranking dont mean much when App is a perennial winner and ECU hasn’t had a winning season going on 7 years.

what do you think elevating means????
you realize elevating just means you support or detter them from entering the same conference as you....

there is a ridiculous amount of ecu commits with app state offers.. the 4star qb mason garcia that ecu got was being recruited by app state

(side note i try not to use anything from the 2020-21 season for any comparisons because of covid, tons of new rules like transfer, and super seniors, no in-person recruiting .. i dont include them in attendance or recruiting comps... there are teams that just took less than 10 recruits, ecu only took 14)

also recruit rankings is relative to your league... ecu out recruits app state... ecu is still one of the worst aac recruiting teams.... app state is top tier in the sunbelt... this is the point of elevation...app state isnt winning in the aac with recruiting classes ranked in the 90s thats just a fact.. either app state cant adapt and becomes a bad team like ecu (after being a good team in c-usa).. or app state adapts and starts to take top (aac level) talent in the state from ecu

Im still operating under the premise that no MWC schools are joining. Because of Big-12 expansion. Seems logical to me.

Those top MWC programs could protect the current AAC media deal.
But I don’t think those schools are a possibility right now.

I could see the AAC taking some Sunbelt / C-USA schools and negotiating them down to take a smaller piece of the media deal. So current schools maintain their level of $$. While new schools get a significant increase from C-USA. But not the 7 million current schools get.

ECU is in a more highly regarded conference than App State. This is true, the only people who don’t believe this are Sun Belt fans. That said, I believe the Sun Belt has surpassed C-USA in football. The ECU/App State/UNCC situation is tricky as they are all under the same umbrella. I really don’t know what the UNC System thinks about having them in the same athletic conference. ECU got into C-USA after UNCC was already a member, so I think it’s possible one of App St. or UNCC could join the American. UNCC would have to sign an agreement to expand their high school stadium, which they can’t fill up.

Regarding the Sun Belt schools: I think Louisiana absolutely has the facilities to be an AAC team. Going back to what Frank said about blocking, I have no idea what Tulane thinks about having UL in conference. SMU schedules UNT, but they’ve never shared a conference with them. I HIGHLY doubt USF is going to share a conference with FIU or FAU.

(09-13-2021 06:34 AM)Rob3338 Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 06:19 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  We should go with what we know vs what we hope for. By that I mean that considering a team because of their potential performance or viewership is not a good idea. We should only
Make decisions on based on conditions NOW.

With that in mind and assuming that the MWC programs are not in play, I would rank the candidates in the following order:

(1) Army
(2) UAB
(3) Marshall
(4) App State
(5) Coastal Carolina
(6) Louisiana
(7) UTSA
(8) LA Tech
(9) FAU
(10) Old Dominion
(11) Charlotte
(12) WKU

Marshall and ODU have budget issues from what I have read; I’m not sure how severe they are or if they are only temporary in nature.

WKU deserves to be much higher on this list but for some reason everyone is ignoring them.

I did not list Liberty only because they don’t stand a chance in hell of getting in, solid athletic program notwithstanding.

EDIT: I should have listed Arkansas State somewhere in the middle of the pack.

You should also have listed Buffalo and NOT listed Charlotte, Old Dominion and Western Kentucky. I would also move App State and Coastal up one spot each and move Marshall down two places. Otherwise all good.

I don't think App is ahead of Marshall, but I'm not going to argue that point as it is debatable I suppose.

As for Coastal...now that's just funny. Not a knock on Coastal but they have had what, 1 winning season in FBS which was last year? They have bad attendance (17k this week for Kansas), and their academics are no where near the same level as Marshall.

(09-13-2021 09:47 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  As I keep saying it will all end up with ESPN. Currently at 7 million per school the AAC is the 6th highest payout league. If ESPN tells the AAC if you add these 4 schools we will keep your payouts at 7 million then that would be attractive to those four schools and would be a better deal for any MWC,CUSA,MAC and SBC school.

If there were 4 schools that could keep that payout at 7 mil then you are 100% correct.

The only combination I could see hitting that mark is Boise State, SDSU, Army+VCU, whoever else ESPN values. Can't even think of a 4th that would move the needle enough.

It is more likely that the value comes in around 2 mil per and includes UAB, Buffalo, Rice, and UTSA.

(09-13-2021 11:49 AM)LaTex14 Wrote:  Im still operating under the premise that no MWC schools are joining. Because of Big-12 expansion. Seems logical to me.

Those top MWC programs could protect the current AAC media deal.
But I don’t think those schools are a possibility right now.

I could see the AAC taking some Sunbelt / C-USA schools and negotiating them down to take a smaller piece of the media deal. So current schools maintain their level of $$. While new schools get a significant increase from C-USA. But not the 7 million current schools get.

I would not be in favor of having junior partners. All teams all in.

(09-13-2021 08:59 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:52 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 08:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 08:36 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Based on the posts of BigHouston, Attack and Pesik, they want us to add teams which will cause us to fail. Seems strange since we helped you succeed.

the opposite....

1st off me and attack have completely opposite ideas on teams...we don't even align

he says "win now" team (App state , la tech, Louisiana type teams)..maximize the immediate tv deal

i say long-term potential teams (ga states, umass charlotte type teams, doesn't have to be these) and infuse them with tons of tv exposure and the aac branding..
if they arent great in the short term- easy wins to make smu look better for the next realignment (i think on per-team basis {after divided 10-12 ways}, i don't think the tv money will be that much different no matter who is added)

if you are stuck in the aac, you want teams that can challenge the big 12 at some point .. sure these teams cant compete with the big 12 short-term but maybe can in the future, but who has a path to 50k fans and 4star recruits in 10years . I like the school with 54k enrollment, in a mega recruiting hotbed, in a metro of 6million people


we arent even preaching the same message .... and i think you are referencing the fact that both of us have referenced rice. no one is advocating for rice, but noting the presidents will strongly consider them based on the past

All your plans suck, but your plan for certain makes us worse on the field and court short term and cements us behind the MWC performance wise (and maybe even behind the Sun-Belt) with the "hope" of it being different in a decade. That's a really bad plan.

in football conferences are defined by the top not the depth... no one in football is jusged by how bad their worst teams are... they are defeinted by the top.. how many top 25, and how good is the very top team.. thius has alwasy been the case

the acc claim to being the #3 conference is based on clemson alone.. te big 12s position of weakness was the inability to have a title contender (oklahoma kept getting blownout in the playoff)
too much depth and acutally beating each other is actually the worst thing in the g5,

and the weird coincidence is that all the top potential teams are passable in basketball.. the win now football teams are the ones that arent good in basketball

Just to be clear the win now football options suck as choices too. The only "decent" option if MWC/Army isn't in play is just add UAB, sit at 9, and hope some of those "potential" schools actually hit some of it. The AAC also still has some football clout because it did have depth. It's had 4 different schools make it to the access bowl, proving that if you win the league no matter who you are you are a serious contender for the bowl. The MWC if Boise wasn't the team the rest weren't thought of as "on par" with an AAC champion and pretty much needed the AAC champ to have at least 1 more loss than a non-Boise champ to get to the game. That's where the depth thing comes into play, and now that's gone with only Memphis remaining as a former access bowl participate and only them, Temple, and Navy having finished seasons ranked (and Temple and Navy both happen to be awful right now).

To be fair---the fact that the various replacement groups talked about "all suck" has much more to do with the available replacement pool than anyone's specific selection of teams from that pool. Its not like you can take that eastern SB/CUSA/indy pool and come up with something that comes close to being as attractive as Boise, BYU, and Air Force---which is the kind of value adding combo that we've always talked about here as the goal. Things have changed. BYU is clearly off the board---and if the MW schools are off the board as well (and they likely are if those schools believe more Big12 expansion might happen in the next few years), then we are stuck with that rather limited eastern pool of replacement options. I mean---there is a reason we have never bothered to replace UConn despite them leaving over 2 years ago. With only 7 full all-sports football playing members---the AAC no longer has the option to just stand pat. It is what it is.

(09-13-2021 11:49 AM)LaTex14 Wrote:  Im still operating under the premise that no MWC schools are joining. Because of Big-12 expansion. Seems logical to me.

Those top MWC programs could protect the current AAC media deal.
But I don’t think those schools are a possibility right now.

I could see the AAC taking some Sunbelt / C-USA schools and negotiating them down to take a smaller piece of the media deal. So current schools maintain their level of $$. While new schools get a significant increase from C-USA. But not the 7 million current schools get.

I doubt the media deal gets distributed unequally, but the exit fees will be.

I have a hard time seeing any MWC schools agreeing to join the AAC before UT and OU move and the Big12 makes further decisions.
Likewise, I really have a hard time seeing Memphis jumping that far west. Maybe not even if the AAC somehow imploded and they don't land in the Big12.

(09-13-2021 11:15 AM)App10 Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 11:04 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 10:32 AM)App10 Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.

I would never argue with you on expansion, but i will argue this one point. You mention ECU “elevating” App State. How would ECU elevate them? Did you see their game in Charlotte on 9/2? More App fans than ECU fans. Did you see ECU’s game against USC at Home? Lucky to have 35k in the seats. App has equal, if not better facilities than ECU, save for the fact ECU has a 50k seat stadium they can’t fill. App has just as good of fan support and they already beat ECU on the recruiting trail regularly. I just don’t agree with the notion that ECU “elevates” App at all.

homer rant
who is winning now has nothing to do with elevating... wake forest is terrible at things, if someone said wake doesnt want to elevate ecu, app in the acc... saying you can beat them now is completely irrelevant to the conversation

and your equal fan points hurts your overall point with ANY context... boone is closer to charlotte than Greensville....ECU has had 7 consecutive horrible seasons ..app state has had 7 consecutive great seasons...he idea that the fan totals were roughly equal, 55/45 is crazy

i also don't get the attendance jab ...1) its covid no one has full stadium...35k is amazing for a terrible team in covid
2) since 2017 app states stadium has had 30k capacity, despite dominance in that time span, app state has only sold out the 30k once

you had 20k end of season attended games on 11 win season (which is horrible)...winless ECU would draw more.. the idea you have "just as good fan support" is laughable

recruiting rankings
2020- ecu 74 app state 85 -- 2019 ecu 78 app state 99 .. 2018 ecu 89 app 113
app state has never out recruited ecu ever...

and these rankings dont include transfers where ecu regularly lands sec transfers .... again this is with the context of ecu being terrible for 6 straight seasons and app state have consecutive great season

if ecu had regularly 11 win seasons, like app state (which they probably could in the Sunbelt) they be DESTROYING App state in attendance and recruiting ..cu was doing 45-50k attendance on 8 win c-usa teams

but back tothe actual point --elevating has nothing to do with who is winning now, but prevent having an even playing field in the eyes of recruits and causal state fans

Also App out recruited ECU for the ‘21 class. And if you read what I said I said App was beating out ECU for recruits they both pursue, not that App was having higher ranked classes. Also, those recruiting ranking dont mean much when App is a perennial winner and ECU hasn’t had a winning season going on 7 years.

I think you are missing the point. The media payouts and recruiting improvements that come from AAC membership would elevate your program. You can compare to ECU all you want, but App is one of the best teams on the field in the Sun Belt, and ECU has been one of the worst teams on the field in the AAC.

Compare your recruiting numbers over the last five years against AAC teams with similar win totals. AAC teams averaging 10-wins seasons like you are hovering in the 40's. i.e. you would be recruiting at that level if you had those records in the AAC. We're terrible, and you had to pick a year where we only had 14 spots to fill to find one where you were ahead of us.

Similarly, if either of us joined the ACC, our bad teams would be recruiting in the 50's, and good ones in the 10's-20's. You can have a winning record over Duke all you want, but they will be recruiting in the 50's as long as they are in the ACC.

Quote:I stopped reading after you said “who is winning now”. My post had next to nothing to do with App winning now. It’s just a fact that ECU doesn’t have anything to offer App as far as elevation. An AAC patch on the jersey doesn’t change that.

I stopped reading when you actually didnt see how ECU would be elevating App State.

Ill try to be nice, but christ this is getting tough.... Do these schools coming over here have a board of their own?

Heres the deal. ECU is in the top G5 conference. Even without the three we are losing, our viewrship and accomplishments SMOKE that little ****-tastic conference APP state is in.

The AAC and MWC make 8-14 times more than CUSA and Sunbelt. At present value without the three teams were estimated to keep at least $4-$5 million of that deal. THat would still be 8-10 TIMES what App state makes.

NOw we could also get into the qualty of the tv deal. App state typically either isnt on tv or is burried in some no name who gives a piss channel and ECU plays on real channels.

Does that help you understand? You come to the AAC board and talk smack about our schools when honestly, your 1 coaching change away from being totally irrelevant. A few year ago nobody knew who App state was. In a few years they wont again.
Ive watched Southen Miss fans come and go, Marshal fans come and go, NIU, Akron.... we have seen all you clowns come over here and demand respect and act like you belong.

You dont. Thats why you are where you are. I hope like hell APP state doesnt get it. I want ECU strong, purple, crazy and full. I dont give a single crap about App State. None of us really do. Flavor of the week can go back to their board, just like every school before you did.

UAB and Marshall will get in long before App State. We at least have history with them.

(09-13-2021 03:48 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

Quote:I stopped reading after you said “who is winning now”. My post had next to nothing to do with App winning now. It’s just a fact that ECU doesn’t have anything to offer App as far as elevation. An AAC patch on the jersey doesn’t change that.

I stopped reading when you actually didnt see how ECU would be elevating App State.

Ill try to be nice, but christ this is getting tough.... Do these schools coming over here have a board of their own?

Heres the deal. ECU is in the top G5 conference. Even without the three we are losing, our viewrship and accomplishments SMOKE that little ****-tastic conference APP state is in.

The AAC and MWC make 8-14 times more than CUSA and Sunbelt. At present value without the three teams were estimated to keep at least $4-$5 million of that deal. THat would still be 8-10 TIMES what App state makes.

NOw we could also get into the qualty of the tv deal. App state typically either isnt on tv or is burried in some no name who gives a piss channel and ECU plays on real channels.

Does that help you understand? You come to the AAC board and talk smack about our schools when honestly, your 1 coaching change away from being totally irrelevant. A few year ago nobody knew who App state was. In a few years they wont again.
Ive watched Southen Miss fans come and go, Marshal fans come and go, NIU, Akron.... we have seen all you clowns come over here and demand respect and act like you belong.

You dont. Thats why you are where you are. I hope like hell APP state doesnt get it. I want ECU strong, purple, crazy and full. I dont give a single crap about App State. None of us really do. Flavor of the week can go back to their board, just like every school before you did.

UAB and Marshall will get in long before App State. We at least have history with them.

Theres no reason to resort to histrionics because someone on here is saying something a little foolish.

Most if not all App fans realize ECU is in the better perceived conference. Same for getting an invite, I think we'd jump at it, especially if Marshall is involved. And I think if you want ECU to be strong, purple, crazy and spreading herpes like normal, they need a strong regional rival to push them back on track.

But that doesn't change that for now, and the immediate future App is a much stronger program than ECU. If we miss this round of realignment, that would suck, but we'll just continue to do what we've done the past 40 years, which is win an absurd amount of football games and push whatever conference we're in further.

When we got to the SBC, it was universally panned as the worst conference in FBS, and worse than a few FCS conferences. Here we are 7 years later and they are trying to make a play at passing the AAC. Who knows, if the AAC doesn't make the right moves right now that just might happen.

mostly at this point i'm just ready for the AAC to make their play so the SBC knows what to do, since I think everyone is on standby.

(09-13-2021 04:15 PM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-13-2021 03:48 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

Quote:I stopped reading after you said “who is winning now”. My post had next to nothing to do with App winning now. It’s just a fact that ECU doesn’t have anything to offer App as far as elevation. An AAC patch on the jersey doesn’t change that.

I stopped reading when you actually didnt see how ECU would be elevating App State.

Ill try to be nice, but christ this is getting tough.... Do these schools coming over here have a board of their own?

Heres the deal. ECU is in the top G5 conference. Even without the three we are losing, our viewrship and accomplishments SMOKE that little ****-tastic conference APP state is in.

The AAC and MWC make 8-14 times more than CUSA and Sunbelt. At present value without the three teams were estimated to keep at least $4-$5 million of that deal. THat would still be 8-10 TIMES what App state makes.

NOw we could also get into the qualty of the tv deal. App state typically either isnt on tv or is burried in some no name who gives a piss channel and ECU plays on real channels.

Does that help you understand? You come to the AAC board and talk smack about our schools when honestly, your 1 coaching change away from being totally irrelevant. A few year ago nobody knew who App state was. In a few years they wont again.
Ive watched Southen Miss fans come and go, Marshal fans come and go, NIU, Akron.... we have seen all you clowns come over here and demand respect and act like you belong.

You dont. Thats why you are where you are. I hope like hell APP state doesnt get it. I want ECU strong, purple, crazy and full. I dont give a single crap about App State. None of us really do. Flavor of the week can go back to their board, just like every school before you did.

UAB and Marshall will get in long before App State. We at least have history with them.

Theres no reason to resort to histrionics because someone on here is saying something a little foolish.

Most if not all App fans realize ECU is in the better perceived conference. Same for getting an invite, I think we'd jump at it, especially if Marshall is involved. And I think if you want ECU to be strong, purple, crazy and spreading herpes like normal, they need a strong regional rival to push them back on track.

But that doesn't change that for now, and the immediate future App is a much stronger program than ECU. If we miss this round of realignment, that would suck, but we'll just continue to do what we've done the past 40 years, which is win an absurd amount of football games and push whatever conference we're in further.

When we got to the SBC, it was universally panned as the worst conference in FBS, and worse than a few FCS conferences. Here we are 7 years later and they are trying to make a play at passing the AAC. Who knows, if the AAC doesn't make the right moves right now that just might happen.

mostly at this point i'm just ready for the AAC to make their play so the SBC knows what to do, since I think everyone is on standby.

I keep hearing this over and over again. The SBC will pass the AAC if they add wrong members. Well the SBC has not had a single member make a NY6 bowl, the SBC has the lowest TV contract.
It’s all about money and recognition and until the SBC can make more money than the AAC it doesn’t matter if one year they finish with a higher ranked team. Money talks and BS works and as long as the AAC makes more money than the SBC they will be able to raid whoever they want. And no the AAC is not going to from 7 million per team to lower payout than SBC just because UH,UC and UCF left. The AAC will be able to add three, four schools that ESPN will tell them these are the ones that we will pay you most for.