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Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-11-2021 09:38 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  LOL

That was my reaction. We have Tulane, we dont need one of the cooyon schools. God can strike me dead before I ever voluntarily go to Ruston La.
09-12-2021 09:21 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 08:36 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Based on the posts of BigHouston, Attack and Pesik, they want us to add teams which will cause us to fail. Seems strange since we helped you succeed.

It's like an ex wife telling you who you can date

03-lmfao
09-12-2021 09:23 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
It seams any team from the MWC would need a guarantee from ESPN the money is worth it. Will ESPN do that? In addition, I think any MWC would have issues with the penalty to leave the conference. I can get the 10 million buy I get out but the 23 months is insane. Right now MWC knows it can now be the tallest midget. I think the AAC needs to to go with the southern strategy go after the best G5 teams not the largest market. Marshall, UAB, App St, Arkansas St, UL, La Tech, Coastal Carolina, and the school who's name shall not be spoken. 2-4 of these teams will bring a commitment to football that others have failed miserable at. There was a time were Memphis, Central Florida and Cincy were teams that many thought could exceed. I think Central Florida is the best case.
09-12-2021 09:35 PM
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LaTex14 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 09:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 09:38 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  LOL

That was my reaction. We have Tulane, we dont need one of the cooyon schools. God can strike me dead before I ever voluntarily go to Ruston La.

Did the guy from the school in Greenville, whose Wikipedia page calls it “BMX Pro Town USA”. Just insult Ruston? If anything LaTech is the ECU of C-USA.
Like I live in Houston so I feel like I could make this joke. But it’s hilarious coming from an ECU fan.
09-12-2021 09:37 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 09:37 PM)LaTex14 Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 09:38 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  LOL

That was my reaction. We have Tulane, we dont need one of the cooyon schools. God can strike me dead before I ever voluntarily go to Ruston La.

Did the guy from the school in Greenville, whose Wikipedia page calls it “BMX Pro Town USA”. Just insult Ruston? If anything LaTech is the ECU of C-USA.
Like I live in Houston so I feel like I could make this joke. But it’s hilarious coming from an ECU fan.

Greenville has over 4x the population of Ruston.
09-12-2021 09:45 PM
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power isn't overrated, but with the AAC needing so many schools, I don't think it will be a big thing during this expansion. For example, App and FAU could get in. I don't think most of the others listed (Ark St, LT, UNT) are being considered, to be honest with you.
09-12-2021 10:00 PM
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Ned Low Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 09:45 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:37 PM)LaTex14 Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 09:38 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  LOL

That was my reaction. We have Tulane, we dont need one of the cooyon schools. God can strike me dead before I ever voluntarily go to Ruston La.

Did the guy from the school in Greenville, whose Wikipedia page calls it “BMX Pro Town USA”. Just insult Ruston? If anything LaTech is the ECU of C-USA.
Like I live in Houston so I feel like I could make this joke. But it’s hilarious coming from an ECU fan.

Greenville has over 4x the population of Ruston.

(1) Greenville has a population much, much larger than that of Ruston and is about 20 miles to the east of the RTP (Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill) DMA. The Greenville area is also one of the fastest growing areas in one of the fastest growing states.

(2) I could be wrong but Shere Kahn is a Memphis fan who for some reason has decided that he likes ECU as of late, which is fine with me.
09-12-2021 10:22 PM
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Ned Low Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 07:20 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 06:19 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  We should go with what we know vs what we hope for. By that I mean that considering a team because of their potential performance or viewership is not a good idea. We should only
Make decisions on based on conditions NOW.

With that in mind and assuming that the MWC programs are not in play, I would rank the candidates in the following order:

(1) Army
(2) UAB
(3) Marshall
(4) App State
(5) Coastal Carolina
(6) Louisiana
(7) UTSA
(8) LA Tech
(9) FAU
(10) Old Dominion
(11) Charlotte
(12) WKU

Marshall and ODU have budget issues from what I have read; I’m not sure how severe they are or if they are only temporary in nature.

WKU deserves to be much higher on this list but for some reason everyone is ignoring them.

I did not list Liberty only because they don’t stand a chance in hell of getting in, solid athletic program notwithstanding.

EDIT: I should have listed Arkansas State somewhere in the middle of the pack.

We have one of the largest budgets in CUSA. I don’t care if we end up the the AAC but just want you to know.

Apologies and best of luck, however this turns out.
09-12-2021 10:24 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 08:36 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Based on the posts of BigHouston, Attack and Pesik, they want us to add teams which will cause us to fail. Seems strange since we helped you succeed.

lol---Im not posting who I "want". Im posting who I think the leadership will end up selecting. That said---why would any of the schools I noted cause the AAC schools "to fail"?

The truth is, I just dont see the presidents totally throwing academic standing out the window on their additions. I think they care a lot about the academic standing of the conference. Thus, I split the difference between selecting for academics and football performance. Two reasonably successful athletic programs with good to excellent academic credentials (UAB and Buffalo)---and two that were selected on the basis of having football programs with long histories of success spanning multiple leagues and coaches (AppSt and LatTech). Two are city schools--two are just schools that just consistently field winning teams. Im assuming the MW strategy isnt going to bear fruit---but if it does---thats obviously the way the presidents will go.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2021 11:53 PM by Attackcoog.)
09-12-2021 11:32 PM
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PicksUp Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 09:45 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:37 PM)LaTex14 Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 09:38 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  LOL

That was my reaction. We have Tulane, we dont need one of the cooyon schools. God can strike me dead before I ever voluntarily go to Ruston La.

Did the guy from the school in Greenville, whose Wikipedia page calls it “BMX Pro Town USA”. Just insult Ruston? If anything LaTech is the ECU of C-USA.
Like I live in Houston so I feel like I could make this joke. But it’s hilarious coming from an ECU fan.

Greenville has over 4x the population of Ruston.

Metro areas both probably around 225-250k. Not that different.
09-12-2021 11:47 PM
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geauxcajuns Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 11:47 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:45 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:37 PM)LaTex14 Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 09:38 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  LOL

That was my reaction. We have Tulane, we dont need one of the cooyon schools. God can strike me dead before I ever voluntarily go to Ruston La.

Did the guy from the school in Greenville, whose Wikipedia page calls it “BMX Pro Town USA”. Just insult Ruston? If anything LaTech is the ECU of C-USA.
Like I live in Houston so I feel like I could make this joke. But it’s hilarious coming from an ECU fan.

Greenville has over 4x the population of Ruston.

Metro areas both probably around 225-250k. Not that different.

Ruston’s metro area is 21k.
09-13-2021 06:34 AM
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Rob3338 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 06:19 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  We should go with what we know vs what we hope for. By that I mean that considering a team because of their potential performance or viewership is not a good idea. We should only
Make decisions on based on conditions NOW.

With that in mind and assuming that the MWC programs are not in play, I would rank the candidates in the following order:

(1) Army
(2) UAB
(3) Marshall
(4) App State
(5) Coastal Carolina
(6) Louisiana
(7) UTSA
(8) LA Tech
(9) FAU
(10) Old Dominion
(11) Charlotte
(12) WKU

Marshall and ODU have budget issues from what I have read; I’m not sure how severe they are or if they are only temporary in nature.

WKU deserves to be much higher on this list but for some reason everyone is ignoring them.

I did not list Liberty only because they don’t stand a chance in hell of getting in, solid athletic program notwithstanding.

EDIT: I should have listed Arkansas State somewhere in the middle of the pack.

You should also have listed Buffalo and NOT listed Charlotte, Old Dominion and Western Kentucky. I would also move App State and Coastal up one spot each and move Marshall down two places. Otherwise all good.
09-13-2021 06:34 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 11:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 08:36 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Based on the posts of BigHouston, Attack and Pesik, they want us to add teams which will cause us to fail. Seems strange since we helped you succeed.

lol---Im not posting who I "want". Im posting who I think the leadership will end up selecting. That said---why would any of the schools I noted cause the AAC schools "to fail"?

The truth is, I just dont see the presidents totally throwing academic standing out the window on their additions. I think they care a lot about the academic standing of the conference. Thus, I split the difference between selecting for academics and football performance. Two reasonably successful athletic programs with good to excellent academic credentials (UAB and Buffalo)---and two that were selected on the basis of having football programs with long histories of success spanning multiple leagues and coaches (AppSt and LatTech). Two are city schools--two are just schools that just consistently field winning teams. Im assuming the MW strategy isnt going to bear fruit---but if it does---thats obviously the way the presidents will go.
I think youre right about academic standing of the conference otherwise individual members may start to wonder well who cares then. If that doesn't matter I can just play in any conference. I seriously don't think the presidents drop their standards unless they can't get Tier 1 schools making the necessary commitment to athletics and primarily I mean the $$$ commitment to football. Actual football success is cyclical for everyone. And in the hard times all you have left is who actually are as a school.

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09-13-2021 07:48 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 11:47 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:45 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:37 PM)LaTex14 Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 09:21 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(09-11-2021 09:38 AM)mustangxc Wrote:  LOL

That was my reaction. We have Tulane, we dont need one of the cooyon schools. God can strike me dead before I ever voluntarily go to Ruston La.

Did the guy from the school in Greenville, whose Wikipedia page calls it “BMX Pro Town USA”. Just insult Ruston? If anything LaTech is the ECU of C-USA.
Like I live in Houston so I feel like I could make this joke. But it’s hilarious coming from an ECU fan.

Greenville has over 4x the population of Ruston.

Metro areas both probably around 225-250k. Not that different.

You are gonna have to define a pretty large area as a "metro area" to get Ruston to that number. Are you including Shreveport? That's like over an hour away, basically the same distance Raleigh is from Greenville and obviously from the decades of realignment wars ECU gets no credit for anything in Wake County.
09-13-2021 08:11 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 08:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 08:36 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Based on the posts of BigHouston, Attack and Pesik, they want us to add teams which will cause us to fail. Seems strange since we helped you succeed.

the opposite....

1st off me and attack have completely opposite ideas on teams...we don't even align

he says "win now" team (App state , la tech, Louisiana type teams)..maximize the immediate tv deal

i say long-term potential teams (ga states, umass charlotte type teams, doesn't have to be these) and infuse them with tons of tv exposure and the aac branding..
if they arent great in the short term- easy wins to make smu look better for the next realignment (i think on per-team basis {after divided 10-12 ways}, i don't think the tv money will be that much different no matter who is added)

if you are stuck in the aac, you want teams that can challenge the big 12 at some point .. sure these teams cant compete with the big 12 short-term but maybe can in the future, but who has a path to 50k fans and 4star recruits in 10years . I like the school with 54k enrollment, in a mega recruiting hotbed, in a metro of 6million people


we arent even preaching the same message .... and i think you are referencing the fact that both of us have referenced rice. no one is advocating for rice, but noting the presidents will strongly consider them based on the past

All your plans suck, but your plan for certain makes us worse on the field and court short term and cements us behind the MWC performance wise (and maybe even behind the Sun-Belt) with the "hope" of it being different in a decade. That's a really bad plan.
09-13-2021 08:21 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.
09-13-2021 08:40 AM
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pesik Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-13-2021 08:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 08:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 08:36 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Based on the posts of BigHouston, Attack and Pesik, they want us to add teams which will cause us to fail. Seems strange since we helped you succeed.

the opposite....

1st off me and attack have completely opposite ideas on teams...we don't even align

he says "win now" team (App state , la tech, Louisiana type teams)..maximize the immediate tv deal

i say long-term potential teams (ga states, umass charlotte type teams, doesn't have to be these) and infuse them with tons of tv exposure and the aac branding..
if they arent great in the short term- easy wins to make smu look better for the next realignment (i think on per-team basis {after divided 10-12 ways}, i don't think the tv money will be that much different no matter who is added)

if you are stuck in the aac, you want teams that can challenge the big 12 at some point .. sure these teams cant compete with the big 12 short-term but maybe can in the future, but who has a path to 50k fans and 4star recruits in 10years . I like the school with 54k enrollment, in a mega recruiting hotbed, in a metro of 6million people


we arent even preaching the same message .... and i think you are referencing the fact that both of us have referenced rice. no one is advocating for rice, but noting the presidents will strongly consider them based on the past

All your plans suck, but your plan for certain makes us worse on the field and court short term and cements us behind the MWC performance wise (and maybe even behind the Sun-Belt) with the "hope" of it being different in a decade. That's a really bad plan.

in football conferences are defined by the top not the depth... no one in football is judged by how bad their worst teams are... they are defined by the top.. how many top 25, and how good is the very top team.. this has always been the case

the acc claim to being the #3 conference is based on clemson alone.. the big 12s position of weakness was the inability to have a title contender (oklahoma kept getting blownout in the playoff)
too much depth and actually beating each other is actually the worst thing in the g5,

and the weird coincidence is that all the top potential teams are passable in basketball.. the win now football teams are the ones that arent good in basketball
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 09:03 AM by pesik.)
09-13-2021 08:52 AM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-13-2021 08:52 AM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-13-2021 08:21 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 08:58 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 08:36 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Based on the posts of BigHouston, Attack and Pesik, they want us to add teams which will cause us to fail. Seems strange since we helped you succeed.

the opposite....

1st off me and attack have completely opposite ideas on teams...we don't even align

he says "win now" team (App state , la tech, Louisiana type teams)..maximize the immediate tv deal

i say long-term potential teams (ga states, umass charlotte type teams, doesn't have to be these) and infuse them with tons of tv exposure and the aac branding..
if they arent great in the short term- easy wins to make smu look better for the next realignment (i think on per-team basis {after divided 10-12 ways}, i don't think the tv money will be that much different no matter who is added)

if you are stuck in the aac, you want teams that can challenge the big 12 at some point .. sure these teams cant compete with the big 12 short-term but maybe can in the future, but who has a path to 50k fans and 4star recruits in 10years . I like the school with 54k enrollment, in a mega recruiting hotbed, in a metro of 6million people


we arent even preaching the same message .... and i think you are referencing the fact that both of us have referenced rice. no one is advocating for rice, but noting the presidents will strongly consider them based on the past

All your plans suck, but your plan for certain makes us worse on the field and court short term and cements us behind the MWC performance wise (and maybe even behind the Sun-Belt) with the "hope" of it being different in a decade. That's a really bad plan.

in football conferences are defined by the top not the depth... no one in football is jusged by how bad their worst teams are... they are defeinted by the top.. how many top 25, and how good is the very top team.. thius has alwasy been the case

the acc claim to being the #3 conference is based on clemson alone.. te big 12s position of weakness was the inability to have a title contender (oklahoma kept getting blownout in the playoff)
too much depth and acutally beating each other is actually the worst thing in the g5,

and the weird coincidence is that all the top potential teams are passable in basketball.. the win now football teams are the ones that arent good in basketball

Just to be clear the win now football options suck as choices too. The only "decent" option if MWC/Army isn't in play is just add UAB, sit at 9, and hope some of those "potential" schools actually hit some of it. The AAC also still has some football clout because it did have depth. It's had 4 different schools make it to the access bowl, proving that if you win the league no matter who you are you are a serious contender for the bowl. The MWC if Boise wasn't the team the rest weren't thought of as "on par" with an AAC champion and pretty much needed the AAC champ to have at least 1 more loss than a non-Boise champ to get to the game. That's where the depth thing comes into play, and now that's gone with only Memphis remaining as a former access bowl participate and only them, Temple, and Navy having finished seasons ranked (and Temple and Navy both happen to be awful right now).
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 09:14 AM by b0ndsj0ns.)
09-13-2021 08:59 AM
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All4One Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
(09-13-2021 08:40 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(09-12-2021 07:41 PM)All4One Wrote:  I'd be interested to know about AAC voting potential.

Do you feel the following AAC schools would block the corresponding candidates?

1. Memphis blocks Arkansas State
2. Tulane blocks Louisiana Tech & Louisiana-Lafayette
3. SMU blocks North Texas
4. East Carolina blocks Appalachian State
5. South Florida blocks Florida Atlantic & Florida International

Is blocking power overrated? You hear about it often when in-state or nearby schools to current members are involved as expansion candidates.

Blocking power definitely isn't overrated. If anything, fans underrate it in conference realignment.

Sure, Texas A&M couldn't block Texas from getting into the SEC... but, of course, UT is the single most valuable school in conference realignment.

Otherwise, if an in-state/market rival can't show that it's clearly above non-rivals, the egos and territorial nature of schools are VERY much important. Everyone wants to believe that they're above their in-state/market rivals and conference membership is a big part of that calculation. Look at the Big East where Dayton (a super basketball program both on-the-court and off-the-court) can't get a sniff right in the middle of the conference footprint because Xavier wants nothing to do with them in the league.

I think that's a challenge for the AAC here. Many of the better current football programs that are candidates being discussed here are in-state competitors to current members and who knows how well they'll perform in the long-term because they're virtually all *young* FBS programs. If I'm running East Carolina that has had a strong football fan base for multiple decades, there's NFW that I want to elevate schools like Appalachian State and Charlotte that haven't even played FBS football for a *single* decade. Absolutely not.

By the way, I think a lot of people are also REALLY underrating the *young* part of this equation. How much stock can you put into on-the-field records with schools whose FBS histories are, in some cases, literally younger than the existence of the AAC itself? I just don't think any university president realistically can here. History and pedigree (and even a poor on-the-field one like, say, Rice) really does matter a lot in the pecking order in conference realignment, particularly when the AAC has a lot of schools with a lot of history and pedigree.

The Sun Belt can take newbie programs fliers because they have absolutely nothing to lose and there's no connective tissue in the league other than simply being an open spot to play football. I think the AAC thinks that it's more than that - maybe it can't ever be "P6", but it doesn't have to be a bunch of random schools without any broader off-the-field connections, either.



Thank you for that insight. I've speculated that the AAC would seek more established programs in FBS, and if they couldn't get Boise or other lucrative additions from the Mountain West, that current AAC members would likely turn to new states, new markets, and old friends to schools like UAB, Southern Miss, and Marshall. Also, I'm not fully understanding why the AAC would add 4 schools to replace 3 members. That doesn't make sense unless Navy leaves.
09-13-2021 09:34 AM
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Cubanbull1 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Sunbelt and MWC schools aren’t expansion candidates
As I keep saying it will all end up with ESPN. Currently at 7 million per school the AAC is the 6th highest payout league. If ESPN tells the AAC if you add these 4 schools we will keep your payouts at 7 million then that would be attractive to those four schools and would be a better deal for any MWC,CUSA,MAC and SBC school.
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2021 09:48 AM by Cubanbull1.)
09-13-2021 09:47 AM
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