Of course they play "shell games." It's easy to do. They put programs in there that they say will sunset after a limited time (one year, two years, whatever), with every intention of renewing the program before it sunsets. CBO has to take them at their word and only counts the cost based on what the bill says. So, a 5 year program that costs $10 billion/year is only $50 billion in the CBO analysis, despite the fact that everyone knows government programs never end and the true cost will be at least $100 billion.

(11-01-2021 07:30 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Of course they play "shell games." It's easy to do. They put programs in there that they say will sunset after a limited time (one year, two years, whatever), with every intention of renewing the program before it sunsets. CBO has to take them at their word and only counts the cost based on what the bill says. So, a 5 year program that costs $10 billion/year is only $50 billion in the CBO analysis, despite the fact that everyone knows government programs never end and the true cost will be at least $100 billion.

when ya put a kid in a candy store w/o a spending limit, it doesn’t end until the teeth rot…

yep, that’s where the prog/corp controlled dipshites still think subsidizing the dentist downstream is best method…

(11-01-2021 08:28 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  By the way, its November.

There is a reason I said November instead of October. Everyone needs time to do their "dance", but these bills have been inevitable for months. The music just played a little longer than I expected.

(11-01-2021 10:33 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its very simple. If the tax rate is zero, then the government gets no income. If the tax rate is 100%---there is no incentive for anyone to earn---thus the government again earns zero. Since we know that---Aurthur Laffer developed a theoretical curve that tells us that government revenue increases when the tax rate exceeds zero and rises as we increase the rate---but at some level of taxation---it begins to flatten---finally reaching a point of maximum government revenue. But here's the key---as you move past that inflection point of maximum government revenue---increasing the tax rate actually LOWERS government revenue--because the high tax rate actually adversely affects the motivation of citizens to earn more revenue. If you continue to raise the rate---you eventually get to 100% at which point there is no motivation for citizens to work and government revenue falls to zero.

A good example of that behavior can be seen in the old "luxury tax" passed in the 1990's.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm...story.html

Agreed 100%. The debate is simply where the inflection point is. Like I said in the past, we have among the lowest tax rates in the world. So you'd have to be insane to think we can still squeeze anymore economic growth from lowering taxes. We had a goldilocks tax system in the mid to late 90's where we balanced the budget with strong economic growth. Insanity struck with the first round of Bush tax cuts. That's the original sin.

(11-01-2021 06:59 PM)boss man Wrote:  Highlights:
1. He refused to back Biden’s social spending bill without a detailed analysis of its impacts, delaying Democrats’ plans to pass both bills this week.
2. He accused fellow Democrats of playing “shell games” with the cost of a $1.75 trillion social package
3. He warned that “...holding this [infrastructure] bill hostage is not going to work in getting my support for the reconciliation bill,”

Notice how he never said he'd not vote for it. Reality is he already assured Biden he would not obstruct the bill. He is just going through the dance of playing to his Fox News audience and conservative donors like he is tipping his hat to them. It was clear Sinema was onboard when she was caught negociating with Pocahontus.

The vote on both bills in the House will likely happen today or tomorrow with strong support from progressive Dems.

(11-02-2021 03:02 AM)scorpius Wrote:  The vote on both bills in the House will likely happen today or tomorrow with strong support from progressive Dems.

Strange that the leadership has not announced those votes to the press or on the House calendar. I guess they’re so excited they forgot to mention it.

/sarcasm

If this vote is relying on the prog filth in the House, I guess they may get 50 votes. They’ve got a “mandate” margin of a whopping 5 votes (think that’s right, not looking) with about 15-20 staring at unemployment in one calendar year.

FranSicko Nan better get this vote rammed through today, cause if Va flips today which is entirely possible, she’ll be lucky to get 100 votes.

If it’s within a few points for bagman Mccalaugh, no way the senate even sniffs this rot.

Why on earth are you cheering for higher taxes emulating Europe of all places? No thanks.

And there’s about 70% of normal folks out there that agree with that.

Send in all you’d like, taint no one stopping you. Ill keep mine, thx.

John Harwood is a pro-Democrat/anti-GOP political analyst for CNN. He was on the air earlier today, mostly for the purpose of p¡ssing on Manchin’s press conference yesterday. But while he was doing that, he also acknowledged that the BBB bill probably wouldn’t come up for a vote “until Thanksgiving, or maybe a little later.”

(11-02-2021 10:22 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  John Harwood is a pro-Democrat/anti-GOP political analyst for CNN. He was on the air earlier today, mostly for the purpose of p¡ssing on Manchin’s press conference yesterday. But while he was doing that, he also acknowledged that the BBB bill probably wouldn’t come up for a vote “until Thanksgiving, or maybe a little later.”

Don't they usually shut down b4 Thanskgiving and "holiday" until Jan?

(11-02-2021 07:29 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 03:02 AM)scorpius Wrote:  The vote on both bills in the House will likely happen today or tomorrow with strong support from progressive Dems.

Strange that the leadership has not announced those votes to the press or on the House calendar. I guess they’re so excited they forgot to mention it.

/sarcasm

They're still dealing with the final details like trying to at least get some form of drug cost control in the bill, and how to repeal the state tax deduction for the middle class. Manchin and Sinema are no longer an issue. Only 5 minutes after Manchin made his speech yesterday, the leader of the progressive caucus, Pramila Jayapal was on MSNBC as optimistic as ever, declaring the vote was definitely happening this week. It almost sounded like she was well aware of the dance these senators had to make. Like it was pre-planned. The fact people on here seem to be falling for it shows exactly why the dance had to happen.

(11-02-2021 03:56 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 07:29 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 03:02 AM)scorpius Wrote:  The vote on both bills in the House will likely happen today or tomorrow with strong support from progressive Dems.

Strange that the leadership has not announced those votes to the press or on the House calendar. I guess they’re so excited they forgot to mention it.

/sarcasm

They're still dealing with the final details like trying to at least get some form of drug cost control in the bill, and how to repeal the state tax deduction for the middle class. Manchin and Sinema are no longer an issue. Only 5 minutes after Manchin made his speech yesterday, the leader of the progressive caucus, Pramila Jayapal was on MSNBC as optimistic as ever declaring the vote was definitely happening this week. It almost sounded like she was well aware of the dance these senators had to make. Like it was pre-planned. The fact people on here seem to be falling for it shows exactly why the dance had to happen.

I have a bridge for sale. Would you be interested in purchasing it?

(11-02-2021 03:56 PM)scorpius Wrote:  They're still dealing with the final details like trying to at least get some form of drug cost control in the bill, and how to repeal the state tax deduction for the middle class.

Oh, to live in a world where SALT deductions and Rx-drug costs — and it doesn’t stop there — are mere “details”. Anyway, I’m sure you’ll let us know when it’s ready. Except you’ve been saying that all along.

Quote:Manchin and Sinema are no longer an issue. Only 5 minutes after Manchin made his speech yesterday, the leader of the progressive caucus, Pramila Jayapal was on MSNBC as optimistic as ever, declaring the vote was definitely happening this week.

”the vote”?? There’s more than one. If she’s talking about the vote on the Bipartisan Infrastructure Foundation bill — the one that passed the Senate 69-30 and even Mitch McConnell voted for it — then yeah, that vote has been sitting on the stove for 3 months, waiting for Jayapal and her friends to get serious.

But if she said that the vote on the reconciliation bill is happening this week — as in, the final roll-call vote of all Members on the floor of the House — no, that is not happening this week (LOL) and anyone who tells you different simply has no clue in the world of what’s really going on.

(11-02-2021 04:27 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-02-2021 03:56 PM)scorpius Wrote:  They're still dealing with the final details like trying to at least get some form of drug cost control in the bill, and how to repeal the state tax deduction for the middle class.

Oh, to live in a world where SALT deductions and Rx-drug costs — and it doesn’t stop there — are mere “details”. Anyway, I’m sure you’ll let us know when it’s ready. Except you’ve been saying that all along.

Quote:Manchin and Sinema are no longer an issue. Only 5 minutes after Manchin made his speech yesterday, the leader of the progressive caucus, Pramila Jayapal was on MSNBC as optimistic as ever, declaring the vote was definitely happening this week.

”the vote”?? There’s more than one. If she’s talking about the vote on the Bipartisan Infrastructure Foundation bill — the one that passed the Senate 69-30 and even Mitch McConnell voted for it — then yeah, that vote has been sitting on the stove for 3 months, waiting for Jayapal and her friends to get serious.

But if she said that the vote on the reconciliation bill is happening this week — as in, the final roll-call vote of all Members on the floor of the House — no, that is not happening this week (LOL) and anyone who tells you different simply has no clue in the world of what’s really going on.

Seems as if the final details on immigration reform is the last major issue to work out as of this evening.

Both bills will be voted on in the House at the same time, almost certainly this week, with strong progressive support. The voting rights bill will likely be next by the end of the year with a limited carve out to the fillibuster. I'd be surprised if that doesn't happen.

lulz

ooooops......

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but both bills are being voted on this week. In fact, they are being voted on as I type this. Granted, the Build Back Better part of it will likely be watered down a little as it works it's way through the snake, but make no mistake about it, this won't be good news for Republicans.

(11-05-2021 10:11 PM)scorpius Wrote:  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but both bills are being voted on this week. In fact, they are being voted on as I type this. Granted, the Build Back Better part of it will likely be watered down a little as it works it's way through the snake, but make no mistake about it, this won't be good news for Republicans.

help us out, chico (since ewe're on a roll) ... what is going to be the bad news ewe vaguely reference that has ewer full support....

@hungryfortartard

(11-05-2021 10:11 PM)scorpius Wrote:  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but both bills are being voted on this week. In fact, they are being voted on as I type this. Granted, the Build Back Better part of it will likely be watered down a little as it works it's way through the snake, but make no mistake about it, this won't be good news for Republicans.

Trust me, nobody cares about infrastructure. It’s not a winning issue at all.

Massive L incoming for the reconciliation bill though! Keep coping.

(11-05-2021 10:24 PM)WalkThePlank Wrote:  

(11-05-2021 10:11 PM)scorpius Wrote:  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but both bills are being voted on this week. In fact, they are being voted on as I type this. Granted, the Build Back Better part of it will likely be watered down a little as it works it's way through the snake, but make no mistake about it, this won't be good news for Republicans.

Trust me, nobody cares about infrastructure. It’s not a winning issue at all.

Massive L incoming for the reconciliation bill though! Keep coping.

which is amazing ... from education reform/development (muh basics + vocational) to fully understanding promoting 'efficient movement', is beyond my pea brained ability to understand how the masses do NOT understand what keeps us at the top of the mountain...

@boggled

(11-05-2021 10:11 PM)scorpius Wrote:  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but both bills are being voted on this week. In fact, they are being voted on as I type this.

False. The House voted on the BIF and it passed, 228-206. That’s the bill which passed the Senate 69-30 about 3 months ago. It now goes to the Executive Branch, where Biden will sign it into law.

But the House did not vote on the BBB this week. They essentially voted for an agreement to vote on the BBB in a couple of weeks or so, after the CBO analysis is ready.

It is unclear if the House will vote for the BBB in 2 weeks or any other time. But even if they do, it won’t then go to Biden for his signature. Instead, it will go to the Senate where Manchin, Sinema, and the rest of the crew will perform their own version of TLC and then the circus will start up all over again. Or, as you put it…

Quote:Granted, the Build Back Better part of it will likely be watered down a little as it works it's way through the snake, but make no mistake about it, this won't be good news for Republicans.

I guess it depends on how you define “a little”, LOL.

(11-06-2021 08:10 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-05-2021 10:11 PM)scorpius Wrote:  I don't know how many times I have to say it, but both bills are being voted on this week. In fact, they are being voted on as I type this.

False. The House voted on the BIF and it passed, 228-206. That’s the bill which passed the Senate 69-30 about 3 months ago. It now goes to the Executive Branch, where Biden will sign it into law.

But the House did not vote on the BBB this week. They essentially voted for an agreement to vote on the BBB in a couple of weeks or so, after the CBO analysis is ready.

It is unclear if the House will vote for the BBB in 2 weeks or any other time. But even if they do, it won’t then go to Biden for his signature. Instead, it will go to the Senate where Manchin, Sinema, and the rest of the crew will perform their own version of TLC and then the circus will start up all over again. Or, as you put it…

Quote:Granted, the Build Back Better part of it will likely be watered down a little as it works it's way through the snake, but make no mistake about it, this won't be good news for Republicans.

I guess it depends on how you define “a little”, LOL.

Both bills were voted on exactly like I said. Were they not? You just admitted it. So I don't understand how you can claim "false". As far as the Build Back Better plan, I'm sure whatever remains of it will be digested in the final rush of legislation the controlling party always rams through by the end of the year. I suspect a good amount of it will remain because Manchin only questions small bits of it. He never said he would vote against it though.

(11-06-2021 05:45 PM)scorpius Wrote:  Both bills were voted on exactly like I said. Were they not?You just admitted it. So I don't understand how you can claim "false".

Because voting on a rule is not voting on a bill.