The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

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(10-03-2020 03:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

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+1

(10-03-2020 03:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

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I tend to agree, but there seems to be a school of thought that believes cutting these sports was intended to help football and basketball. More money, more weight room/strength coach availability, etc. etc. Wealthy donors agreed with this reasoning, I think someone said.

(10-03-2020 03:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

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Amen. Its a huge turnoff and just a dumb line of attack.

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(10-03-2020 04:11 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 03:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

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I tend to agree, but there seems to be a school of thought that believes cutting these sports was intended to help football and basketball. More money, more weight room/strength coach availability, etc. etc. Wealthy donors agreed with this reasoning, I think someone said.

Even if the cuts are designed to redirect money to fb & mbb/wbb, those programs don't make the decisions. I know you're not saying that, I'm just making a general statement.

That's like being mad at a guy because a woman dumped you to be with him. It's not his fault.

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No, but if it were true I think it would give them a “dog in the fight” of sorts (IMHO YMMV).

Speaking of the programs of course, certainly not the players.

(10-03-2020 04:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:11 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 03:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I tend to agree, but there seems to be a school of thought that believes cutting these sports was intended to help football and basketball. More money, more weight room/strength coach availability, etc. etc. Wealthy donors agreed with this reasoning, I think someone said.

Even if the cuts are designed to redirect money to fb & mbb/wbb, those programs don't make the decisions. I know you're not saying that, I'm just making a general statement.

That's like being mad at a guy because a woman dumped you to be with him. It's not his fault.

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Yes, absolutely true that basketball and football player and alums didn’t make or even drive these decisions. However, Huge has created a schism in the athletics community where there was a long-held understanding that all sports and athletes were valued equally, even if not funded equally. Truly, one tribe one family among the athletes. More football and basketball alums need to speak out against these cuts and make it clear we don’t share Huge and Rowe’s vision for W&M athletics. If football doesn’t want to be viewed as the villain in this story we should make it clear that we oppose the cuts and we don’t want football success to come at the expense of opportunities for other deserving athletes. I see momentum building on this front. If the school starts losing significant donations from supporters of the remaining sports that will be the tipping point.

What will come out of the Athletic Department soon will be some sort of question that pits the 7 against the rest asking whether the overall sentiment is to keep more and let all become less funded or cut and fund the ones that "matter". The word in quotes is the key to the question. So far BOV, Admin have decided which "matter". We are going to hear about how little money we have, how much there is to fund sports in general, etc. They are going to show us with "transparency" how they got to their conclusion and are going to challenge the alumni/fans/professors/parents/players to figure out how to solve it.

Great idea, but should have been done six months ago.

(10-03-2020 06:10 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  What will come out of the Athletic Department soon will be some sort of question that pits the 7 against the rest asking whether the overall sentiment is to keep more and let all become less funded or cut and fund the ones that "matter". The word in quotes is the key to the question. So far BOV, Admin have decided which "matter". We are going to hear about how little money we have, how much there is to fund sports in general, etc. They are going to show us with "transparency" how they got to their conclusion and are going to challenge the alumni/fans/professors/parents/players to figure out how to solve it.

Great idea, but should have been done six months ago.

Not only that, but there needs to be true transparency on the numbers -- which we haven't had. For example, needing a $150M endowment was a false number because it 1) included rowing and softball, two sports that we don't even have and 2) it counted how much money was needed to fund EVERY sport at the full scholarship level. That was disingenuous because 1) some sports like football and basketball are already funded under full endowment (so subtract those amounts from the $150M*) and 2) swimming and other sports have already proven that they can compete at a high level with NO scholarships (so, again, subtract that amount from the $150M*). Also, regarding true transparency, it is only natural that when you have been lied to by someone repeatedly that you mistrust data that they give you. Therefore, all data provided must be vetted by competent accountants. I'm sure the Tribe7 have alums who are not only competent but that would do it pro bono.

So, once the W&M community has been given data that they can trust, then we can do all the collaborating and brainstorming to make it happen. There is no doubt in my mind that at least 6 of the 7 sports could do all that was truly necessary to stay alive.

*** Or, if the $150M is a true number to fund all sports, then you still need to subtract all of the other sport endowments that you already have in order to reach the "this is how much we need to fund the 7 sports" number. In other words, name the honest, true goal of money that is still needed. It definitely is NOT the $150M number.

(10-03-2020 05:39 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:11 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 03:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I tend to agree, but there seems to be a school of thought that believes cutting these sports was intended to help football and basketball. More money, more weight room/strength coach availability, etc. etc. Wealthy donors agreed with this reasoning, I think someone said.

Even if the cuts are designed to redirect money to fb & mbb/wbb, those programs don't make the decisions. I know you're not saying that, I'm just making a general statement.

That's like being mad at a guy because a woman dumped you to be with him. It's not his fault.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Yes, absolutely true that basketball and football player and alums didn’t make or even drive these decisions. However, Huge has created a schism in the athletics community where there was a long-held understanding that all sports and athletes were valued equally, even if not funded equally. Truly, one tribe one family among the athletes. More football and basketball alums need to speak out against these cuts and make it clear we don’t share Huge and Rowe’s vision for W&M athletics. If football doesn’t want to be viewed as the villain in this story we should make it clear that we oppose the cuts and we don’t want football success to come at the expense of opportunities for other deserving athletes. I see momentum building on this front. If the school starts losing significant donations from supporters of the remaining sports that will be the tipping point.

If what we've read is true--Huge leads by intimidation--you have to wonder if staff/coaches fear being next on the chopping block and, in turn, instructed players to remain silent. Another consideration is Huge hired many of our head coaches...if she goes, the next AD may clean house, too. They don't want that.

The female track athlete who addressed the BoV is the only athlete I've seen challenge the cuts. I think that is very telling and supports my theory that our athletes are worried about repercussions.

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(10-03-2020 07:18 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 05:39 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:11 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 03:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I tend to agree, but there seems to be a school of thought that believes cutting these sports was intended to help football and basketball. More money, more weight room/strength coach availability, etc. etc. Wealthy donors agreed with this reasoning, I think someone said.

Even if the cuts are designed to redirect money to fb & mbb/wbb, those programs don't make the decisions. I know you're not saying that, I'm just making a general statement.

That's like being mad at a guy because a woman dumped you to be with him. It's not his fault.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Yes, absolutely true that basketball and football player and alums didn’t make or even drive these decisions. However, Huge has created a schism in the athletics community where there was a long-held understanding that all sports and athletes were valued equally, even if not funded equally. Truly, one tribe one family among the athletes. More football and basketball alums need to speak out against these cuts and make it clear we don’t share Huge and Rowe’s vision for W&M athletics. If football doesn’t want to be viewed as the villain in this story we should make it clear that we oppose the cuts and we don’t want football success to come at the expense of opportunities for other deserving athletes. I see momentum building on this front. If the school starts losing significant donations from supporters of the remaining sports that will be the tipping point.

If what we've read is true--Huge leads by intimidation--you have to wonder if staff/coaches fear being next on the chopping block and, in turn, instructed players to remain silent. Another consideration is Huge hired many of our head coaches...if she goes, the next AD may clean house, too. They don't want that.

The female track athlete who addressed the BoV is the only athlete I've seen challenge the cuts. I think that is very telling and supports my theory that our athletes are worried about repercussions.

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I agree, current athletes have probably been instructed to stay out of it and some coaches that would speak up, probably don’t out of fear of reprisal. My comment was directed more towards the alumni of football and basketball and other non-cancelled sports speaking out and cancelling donations. That’s where impact will be felt. Huge would simply ignore current athletes even if more spoke out.

(10-03-2020 07:18 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 05:39 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:11 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 03:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  The Cut 7 alliance needs to shift away from their criticism of football & basketball. It's not helping. Our football & basketball programs don't have a dog in this fight so it isn't fair to go after them. Focus on the real problem.

In fact, attacking those programs does much more harm than good. Just my 2 cents.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I tend to agree, but there seems to be a school of thought that believes cutting these sports was intended to help football and basketball. More money, more weight room/strength coach availability, etc. etc. Wealthy donors agreed with this reasoning, I think someone said.

Even if the cuts are designed to redirect money to fb & mbb/wbb, those programs don't make the decisions. I know you're not saying that, I'm just making a general statement.

That's like being mad at a guy because a woman dumped you to be with him. It's not his fault.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Yes, absolutely true that basketball and football player and alums didn’t make or even drive these decisions. However, Huge has created a schism in the athletics community where there was a long-held understanding that all sports and athletes were valued equally, even if not funded equally. Truly, one tribe one family among the athletes. More football and basketball alums need to speak out against these cuts and make it clear we don’t share Huge and Rowe’s vision for W&M athletics. If football doesn’t want to be viewed as the villain in this story we should make it clear that we oppose the cuts and we don’t want football success to come at the expense of opportunities for other deserving athletes. I see momentum building on this front. If the school starts losing significant donations from supporters of the remaining sports that will be the tipping point.

If what we've read is true--Huge leads by intimidation--you have to wonder if staff/coaches fear being next on the chopping block and, in turn, instructed players to remain silent. Another consideration is Huge hired many of our head coaches...if she goes, the next AD may clean house, too. They don't want that.

The female track athlete who addressed the BoV is the only athlete I've seen challenge the cuts. I think that is very telling and supports my theory that our athletes are worried about repercussions.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Don't forget what happened at Delaware with the female student athlete who came to her about abuse by her coaches and when our athletes called her on the scholarship freeze. Both very well documented.

I don't understand why that nonsense is tolerated.

(10-03-2020 08:18 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 07:18 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 05:39 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:22 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(10-03-2020 04:11 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  I tend to agree, but there seems to be a school of thought that believes cutting these sports was intended to help football and basketball. More money, more weight room/strength coach availability, etc. etc. Wealthy donors agreed with this reasoning, I think someone said.

Even if the cuts are designed to redirect money to fb & mbb/wbb, those programs don't make the decisions. I know you're not saying that, I'm just making a general statement.

That's like being mad at a guy because a woman dumped you to be with him. It's not his fault.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Yes, absolutely true that basketball and football player and alums didn’t make or even drive these decisions. However, Huge has created a schism in the athletics community where there was a long-held understanding that all sports and athletes were valued equally, even if not funded equally. Truly, one tribe one family among the athletes. More football and basketball alums need to speak out against these cuts and make it clear we don’t share Huge and Rowe’s vision for W&M athletics. If football doesn’t want to be viewed as the villain in this story we should make it clear that we oppose the cuts and we don’t want football success to come at the expense of opportunities for other deserving athletes. I see momentum building on this front. If the school starts losing significant donations from supporters of the remaining sports that will be the tipping point.

If what we've read is true--Huge leads by intimidation--you have to wonder if staff/coaches fear being next on the chopping block and, in turn, instructed players to remain silent. Another consideration is Huge hired many of our head coaches...if she goes, the next AD may clean house, too. They don't want that.

The female track athlete who addressed the BoV is the only athlete I've seen challenge the cuts. I think that is very telling and supports my theory that our athletes are worried about repercussions.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I agree, current athletes have probably been instructed to stay out of it and some coaches that would speak up, probably don’t out of fear of reprisal. My comment was directed more towards the alumni of football and basketball and other non-cancelled sports speaking out and cancelling donations. That’s where impact will be felt. Huge would simply ignore current athletes even if more spoke out.

Perhaps those other coaches and athletes should remember this (with apologies to Martin Niemöller):

First they came for the swim team, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not on the swim team.

Then they came for the gymnastics team, and I did not speak out—
Because I did not coach the gymnastics team.

Then they came for the track team, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not on the track team.

Then they came for my sport—and there was no one left to speak for me.

A CAA school breakdown using JMU football and Nova basketball budgets.

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I apologize if this was already posted:

https://wydaily.com/local-news/2020/10/0...t-for-now/

So football is going to get “enhanced” by having a cap placed on the number of players due to Title IX.

Seven sports are getting cut, men’s cross-country is getting gutted, and now football is going to have a cap.

So, all of you in favor of this, what say you re: a football cap?

This is a one way ticket to oblivion.

I'm unable to access the WYD article. What are the details of the cap for football?
Are we gutting everything for basketball?

Posts #566 onward for discussion

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W&M could just admit more boys.

(10-04-2020 05:23 PM)DSL Wrote:  I'm unable to access the WYD article. What are the details of the cap for football?
Are we gutting everything for basketball?

there are no details about football caps, whatever that means

relevant parts of the article are:

Quote:Bryant, who represents the three women’s sports teams who had been cut by the university — women’s swimming, track and volleyball teams — had sent W&M President Katherine Rowe a letter which gave the university an ultimatum: Respond to his request to reinstated the three teams by Wednesday or face a Title IX lawsuit.

“So yes we did hear from William & Mary,” Bryant said Thursday. “So of course at 4:44 east coast [time] yesterday, we heard from them and they have told us they actually have a plan where they are going to be in or close to compliance next year…and we’re looking at it and trying to evaluate what we think.”

“What I can say is they are going to add women to several of the teams next year that they are keeping and they are going to cap several of the men’s teams including the football to comply with Title IX,” Bryant said.

Motion proposed for vote of no confidence in Huge:

https://wydaily.com/local-news/2020/10/0...signation/