(11-05-2020 09:09 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Clemson is frickin loaded. Ridiculous excuse.


Clemson eliminating men’s track & field & cross country programs because of “financial challenges due to ongoing pandemic”

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Gotta keep Dabo and his assistants happy. Cutting into his ten year $93M contract would be a bridge too far. Track team cheerfully hanging up their cleats to avoid putting it at risk.

(11-05-2020 09:09 PM)Tribal Wrote:  Clemson is frickin loaded. Ridiculous excuse.


Clemson eliminating men’s track & field & cross country programs because of “financial challenges due to ongoing pandemic”

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Clemson has put $135M toward stadium upgrades and a new football facility since 2017.

Facility includes:
— Laser Tag
— Basketball court
— Mini golf course
— Bowling Alley

Recently cut Clemson T&F carry $3M in expenses

TRUTH: Call it what they want, this is more about concern over Title IX compliance than money savings. So many schools are out of compliance that cuts are being made to get ahead of the lawyers.

Someone close to W&M saw this a responded this way:

I'm going to pitch buying a $70k pickup truck to my wife by saying we'll cancel our Netflix subscription to fund it...



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One of the problems that W&M has with Title IX (which is the driver behind not re-instating men's teams) which doesn't get a lot of ink, is that Title IX is figured on the gender break down of the particular institution. W&M has been trending toward a higher proportion of female students than male students for some time.

I believe that the current break down of the student body is approx. 58% female and 42% male (according to US News). According to Title IX, I believe that should make athletic participant slots available approx. 58% female and 42% male for W&M to be in compliance. One potential solution would be to elevate women's club sports, such as rowing, to varsity status, in order to make room for men's slots. Additionally using the proportion of male students would help to alleviate the imbalance.

When I was an undergraduate, rumor had it that acceptances were offered to structure incoming classes of approx. 70% in state students and 30% out of state, with an approximate gender make up of 50-50%. Under that paradigm, admission criteria for in-state males was a good deal less stringent than for out-of-state female students.

(11-05-2020 11:59 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  One of the problems that W&M has with Title IX (which is the driver behind not re-instating men's teams) which doesn't get a lot of ink, is that Title IX is figured on the gender break down of the particular institution. W&M has been trending toward a higher proportion of female students than male students for some time.

I believe that the current break down of the student body is approx. 58% female and 42% male (according to US News). According to Title IX, I believe that should make athletic participant slots available approx. 58% female and 42% male for W&M to be in compliance. One potential solution would be to elevate women's club sports, such as rowing, to varsity status, in order to make room for men's slots. Additionally using the proportion of male students would help to alleviate the imbalance.

You can rest assured that the imbalance between the male and female percentages of undergraduates has been brought to the Administration's attention. However, for whatever reason, Rowe is intent on not only maintaining the disparity but she acts like she wants to increase it. The only way to do that and also meet Title IX requirements is to add women's sports. It was announced on the Save Tribe Swimming zoom meeting today that the word has gotten around that W&M wants to balance the gender equity by adding Softball and Women's Rowing.

So, that is just so William and Mary: to plead poverty and to say over and over that there is no way that the current model can support 23 sports and then .....wait for it ......their solution is to go and add 2 more sports!

I'm in favor of keeping the current 23 sports and I have no problem with softball (don't think much of rowing at W&M but, okay, I could live with it) but to me the absolute hypocrisy of comparing what they said before to what they want to do now ...

So now we have to raise even more money. But wait! Apparently there are well-heeled donors ready to step up and fund these new sports. Now, don't ask me why they couldn't have used that money to support the sports that we already had...but apparently they have their own little pet sports and that is what they want the money to go to. All of which will make the Athletic Department even more in the red in a few years and the requests for money will never stop.

Requests for money at every college, never mind W&M, never stop...W&M is no different.

W&M actually has a much higher acceptance rate for men (About 40% for men and 28% for women). Like yes there is a gender imbalance, but there's only so much a school can do about that within reason.

A weekly monster truck rally on campus might attract more dudes to apply...

I think we need bang for bucks. Promoting women's crew to varsity is inexpensive and could help a lot. Softball is a different story unless we play at a local high school or parks and rec field. Let's add women's fencing.

(11-06-2020 08:54 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I think we need bang for bucks. Promoting women's crew to varsity is inexpensive and could help a lot. Softball is a different story unless we play at a local high school or parks and rec field. Let's add women's fencing.

Fight to make cheer a varsity sport

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(11-06-2020 11:54 AM)Tribal Wrote:  

(11-06-2020 08:54 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I think we need bang for bucks. Promoting women's crew to varsity is inexpensive and could help a lot. Softball is a different story unless we play at a local high school or parks and rec field. Let's add women's fencing.

Fight to make cheer a varsity sport

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Nor sure if cheer will qualify under NCAA as a varsity sport anymore?

(11-06-2020 01:02 PM)wmmii Wrote:  

(11-06-2020 11:54 AM)Tribal Wrote:  

(11-06-2020 08:54 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I think we need bang for bucks. Promoting women's crew to varsity is inexpensive and could help a lot. Softball is a different story unless we play at a local high school or parks and rec field. Let's add women's fencing.

Fight to make cheer a varsity sport

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Nor sure if cheer will qualify under NCAA as a varsity sport anymore?

Yeah I think there was actually a SCOTUS ruling on that.

I have noticed however that some schools, JMU specifically, use large wbb practice teams full of male players to help Title IX balance. I know we had an all men's practice squad under Coach Taylor (players had to give up their NCAA eligibility and everything) but Coach Swanson got rid of it.

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(11-06-2020 01:10 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  I have noticed however that some schools, JMU specifically, use large wbb practice teams full of male players to help Title IX balance. I know we had an all men's practice squad under Coach Taylor (players had to give up their NCAA eligibility and everything) but Coach Swanson got rid of it.

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I had noticed that as well looking at JMU's paperwork, but didn't know the history at W&M.

On the surface, it seems like a pretty slimy way to comply (assuming I'm correct that they're basically counting men as women's sport participants). But if it's an accepted thing within the NCAA to do it, I suppose it could merit consideration.

(11-06-2020 07:16 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  W&M actually has a much higher acceptance rate for men (About 40% for men and 28% for women). Like yes there is a gender imbalance, but there's only so much a school can do about that within reason.

A weekly monster truck rally on campus might attract more dudes to apply...

If we could start a varsity, women's Monster Truck Rally team that could potentially help in a couple of ways to bring us into compliance...

(11-06-2020 03:14 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  I had noticed that as well looking at JMU's paperwork, but didn't know the history at W&M.

On the surface, it seems like a pretty slimy way to comply (assuming I'm correct that they're basically counting men as women's sport participants). But if it's an accepted thing within the NCAA to do it, I suppose it could merit consideration.

I'm of split mind about it. On the one hand it doesn't really seem to be keeping with the spirit of Title IX. But on the other, if done sincerely, you truly would be putting a lot of resources towards women's sports.

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In the spirit of silly ideas, are we allowed to field more than one women's team in a given sport? Like, what if we had TWO women's cross country teams?

That's very silly

Ok but what about JV or freshmen teams?

From what I understand, Division I is varsity only.

How about not gaming the system, decide how much money we need to fully fund each sport, and go from there. I don't care if other schools think that exploiting loopholes is the way to manage programs.

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