(08-12-2020 01:16 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 10:30 PM)Statefan Wrote:  If the B10 loses Nebraska, they might not be able to hold Penn State.

BINGO - and for essentially the same reason, too.

That would also leave Maryland and Rutgers on islands - and the Big Ten wondering how they ever ended up with those two!

As if they already don't?

(08-12-2020 12:48 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 12:02 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 11:48 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 05:28 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 11:19 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  [i]
And where would Penn State go? The ACC? As I was told at an alumni gathering two years ago: “Penn State in the ACC is like a big fish surrounded by small fish.”

Unlike Nebraska, Penn State is a Big Ten school. PSU just finished a 2-2 with Pitt and it’s getting a 1-1 with West Virginia. PSU won’t give up their annual games against Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State plus exposure in the New York to Washington corridor for anything the ACC offers.

It must have been an old alumni. It’s been nearly 35 years since Penn State won a national title in anything. They’ve been Ohio State’s b itch since 1993. They haven’t beaten OSU in back to back seasons since joining The Big Ten. They have lost 7 of the last 8 to OSU.

Granted Penn State was a once proud program. For you to carry a quote from some leather helmet codger here referring to Penn State a “Big Fish” shows how out of touch you are with college football.

It’s more than college football. I know you’re an ACC fanboy so I don’t take it personally.

Put Penn State in the ACC. It’s not a fit in any shape or form. Nothing against the ACC. It’s just not a good fit for the Nittany Lions. The ACC is a good fit for the likes of Pitt, Syracuse and BC not for the Penn States of the world.

No... not an ACC fanboy
Some here will get a kick out of that. Knowing how critical I have been of The ACC

I happen to agree with you. Penn State is out of place in The Big Ten but would be even more so in The ACC. It is what it is because the idea of a true eastern football league is dead. The idea that the Lambert Trophy would go to the champion of a true eastern league died when PSU joined The Big Ten.

Fans of old eastern football like me know we missed an opportunity too.

It’s a shame a true Eastern football league never materialized.

It did, it was called the Big East. With Miami being the notable exception of course.

(08-12-2020 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 10:50 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 10:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Schools I think B1G would target that decline before settling on Mizzou:
Notre Dame
Texas
Oklahoma
North Carolina
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Syracuse

Syracuse *might* be shaken loose but the others will stand firm.

The first three on your list would say no for sure. After that, who knows.

What happens if the Big Ten goes to UNC and says, "Here's your offer. You have 24 hours to accept. If you don't accept, we will just keep moving down our list of ACC members until one of them says yes." The Chapel Hill decision makers would know that someone is going to leave the ACC, and why sit around and watch another school pick up that extra $25 million a year in conference money when they could do it themselves?

This has always been the vulnerability of the ACC. And once the new SEC & Big 10 contracts are made effective in 2024-5 the gap only grows and grows significantly more. And to your point their leadership at their schools already know this and COVID 19 only stresses that situation more as Federal and State budgets will be stretched to the limits and funding will be hard to come by, especially with Boomers retiring and expiring, private business at an all time low, and the subsequent generations burdened by hyper inflated college education debt.

But I do think what is more likely is that the Big 10 offers both Virginia and North Carolina and makes them a sweet deal knowing they likely have to take Duke as well. There's your 16 member Big 10. If things get wild PItt could be in the mix with Virginia if North Carolina made a deal with the SEC to take N.C. State and Duke. The question would be how much does the SEC want a presence in North Carolina?

My guess is the SEC would take Clemson and Florida State and wait on Va Tech and N.C. State if that is what they wanted. Virginia Tech has more athletic upside than Virginia and N.C. State plants the flag in North Carolina with a state school.

Now if North Carolina and Duke just wanted to escape to the SEC like they were concerned about in 2010-1 then the SEC jumps on that, picks up Clemson and Florida State and still calls it a day. What's more is that from a basketball and football perspective this gives ESPN full access to the brands they want anyway.

Then the question becomes does the rebuilding Big 12 pick up Arkansas and Missouri and Notre Dame as a partial as they would be the most likely to accommodate the Irish on those terms. If these two moves seem unlikely remember their history. Broyles wanted the SEC because he believed, probably correctly, that Arkansas was about to be left out of the formation of the Big 12 which was being discussed at the time Arkansas jumped. The Hogs are accepted by all SEC schools and they have made a home here, but clearly the SEC was an escape and clearly their interests more closely ally with Texas. Missouri jumped for a chair when the music was about to stop. They have very very little history with SEC schools. Vanderbilt was the only school they had played more than 5 times when they joined the SEC (A&M excluded). If Nebraska and Colorado return to the Big 12 and Arkansas felt welcomed and the SEC could effectively grow to the East without losing revenue in the exchange then from a business perspective anything is possible. Arkansas, and Missouri very soon, will be facing the same dilemma that Nebraska faces, remain for the money and lose you historical roots and your regional appeal, or do what it is said none of can do successfully, return to home after a lifetime away. For Missouri the move is still a blip. For Arkansas it's been a long time

But as far as Big 10 backfill goes if Nebraska returns Oklahoma has zero reason to leave and a prime example as to why not to even consider it. Texas was never leaving anyway. Notre Dame will choose whatever enables their business model to continue as is and that is not the Big 10 or SEC for that matter. So the only schools vulnerable for a move would be those from the ACC, or perhaps Cal, U.C.L.A., Oregon, and Washington, in which case Colorado makes a good bridge for the Big 10. But if that is to be the case I think the Big 10 will have exhausted its efforts to break the ACC first, and quite frankly without Nebraska even Colorado is a stretch.

Seems more and more likely that COVID is going to adversely impact media rights that are negotiated in the next several years. I wouldn’t be banking on dramatic increases in 2024-25 until the dust settles from this pandemic. Suggesting that the ACC-SEC/BIG media rights gap is going to soon increase dramatically is becoming slightly more speculative each month.

(08-11-2020 10:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Schools I think B1G would target that decline before settling on Mizzou:
Notre Dame
Texas
Oklahoma
North Carolina
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Syracuse

Syracuse *might* be shaken loose but the others will stand firm.

I think they continue to focus on the east coast. Obviously they'll try for ND first like everyone does. Virginia & UNC will get feeler calls with nothing panning out. Boston College, Syracuse and Pitt are the candidates they'll have a good chance of flipping, plus Pitt is AAU. Seeing the GOR fight would be very interesting.

(08-12-2020 04:12 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 10:50 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 10:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Schools I think B1G would target that decline before settling on Mizzou:
Notre Dame
Texas
Oklahoma
North Carolina
Virginia
Georgia Tech
Syracuse

Syracuse *might* be shaken loose but the others will stand firm.

The first three on your list would say no for sure. After that, who knows.

What happens if the Big Ten goes to UNC and says, "Here's your offer. You have 24 hours to accept. If you don't accept, we will just keep moving down our list of ACC members until one of them says yes." The Chapel Hill decision makers would know that someone is going to leave the ACC, and why sit around and watch another school pick up that extra $25 million a year in conference money when they could do it themselves?

This has always been the vulnerability of the ACC. And once the new SEC & Big 10 contracts are made effective in 2024-5 the gap only grows and grows significantly more. And to your point their leadership at their schools already know this and COVID 19 only stresses that situation more as Federal and State budgets will be stretched to the limits and funding will be hard to come by, especially with Boomers retiring and expiring, private business at an all time low, and the subsequent generations burdened by hyper inflated college education debt.

But I do think what is more likely is that the Big 10 offers both Virginia and North Carolina and makes them a sweet deal knowing they likely have to take Duke as well. There's your 16 member Big 10. If things get wild PItt could be in the mix with Virginia if North Carolina made a deal with the SEC to take N.C. State and Duke. The question would be how much does the SEC want a presence in North Carolina?

My guess is the SEC would take Clemson and Florida State and wait on Va Tech and N.C. State if that is what they wanted. Virginia Tech has more athletic upside than Virginia and N.C. State plants the flag in North Carolina with a state school.

Now if North Carolina and Duke just wanted to escape to the SEC like they were concerned about in 2010-1 then the SEC jumps on that, picks up Clemson and Florida State and still calls it a day. What's more is that from a basketball and football perspective this gives ESPN full access to the brands they want anyway.

Then the question becomes does the rebuilding Big 12 pick up Arkansas and Missouri and Notre Dame as a partial as they would be the most likely to accommodate the Irish on those terms. If these two moves seem unlikely remember their history. Broyles wanted the SEC because he believed, probably correctly, that Arkansas was about to be left out of the formation of the Big 12 which was being discussed at the time Arkansas jumped. The Hogs are accepted by all SEC schools and they have made a home here, but clearly the SEC was an escape and clearly their interests more closely ally with Texas. Missouri jumped for a chair when the music was about to stop. They have very very little history with SEC schools. Vanderbilt was the only school they had played more than 5 times when they joined the SEC (A&M excluded). If Nebraska and Colorado return to the Big 12 and Arkansas felt welcomed and the SEC could effectively grow to the East without losing revenue in the exchange then from a business perspective anything is possible. Arkansas, and Missouri very soon, will be facing the same dilemma that Nebraska faces, remain for the money and lose you historical roots and your regional appeal, or do what it is said none of can do successfully, return to home after a lifetime away. For Missouri the move is still a blip. For Arkansas it's been a long time

But as far as Big 10 backfill goes if Nebraska returns Oklahoma has zero reason to leave and a prime example as to why not to even consider it. Texas was never leaving anyway. Notre Dame will choose whatever enables their business model to continue as is and that is not the Big 10 or SEC for that matter. So the only schools vulnerable for a move would be those from the ACC, or perhaps Cal, U.C.L.A., Oregon, and Washington, in which case Colorado makes a good bridge for the Big 10. But if that is to be the case I think the Big 10 will have exhausted its efforts to break the ACC first, and quite frankly without Nebraska even Colorado is a stretch.

Seems more and more likely that COVID is going to adversely impact media rights that are negotiated in the next several years. I wouldn’t be banking on dramatic increases in 2024-25 until the dust settles from this pandemic. Suggesting that the ACC-SEC/BIG media rights gap is going to soon increase dramatically is becoming slightly more speculative each month.

They might indeed, but they are also going to impact the efficacy of GOR's. GOR's are predicated upon performance of contractual obligations and cannot stand up to the non performance of just some of those who signed. And they don't address the rights of a signee to perform when others do not.

(08-12-2020 05:34 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 05:16 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If Iowa leaves with Nebraska, stand pat at 12 and enjoy two fewer mouths to feed and no schools on the wrong side of the river.

Obviously there would be a ton of ACC schools that I would want. Assume none of them break the GOR.

If Nebraska only leaves, make a run at Missouri (I know they're West but they at least border the river as opposed to Nebraska). Maybe Kentucky?

Then we're down to non P5. I'd say UConn. Yes, their football sucks but who's left? Temple? Cincinnati? UConn at least brings a new market and the best academics. I would love Temple and Penn State is pretty far away from Philly (almost 200 miles between Beaver Stadium and Lincoln Financial Field).

Kentucky might be across the river from Big Ten states but the cultural divide between Kentucky and The Big Ten is much much wider.

UK would be more of a cultural outliner in The Big Ten than Missouri is in The SEC. UK would never leave The SEC.

Then again, Kentucky's a (men's) basketball school in a football conference. And are they as Southern as Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi? UK probably belongs in the ACC the most, especially with Louisville there. But if they're a basketball school, basketball's better in the Big Ten than the SEC and Indiana-Kentucky would be a better rivalry than Kentucky-Florida (Florida's better but geographically further away).

(08-11-2020 10:34 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Mizzou by default of not being able to get their other targets. Mizzou will make the move because of academics, cultural fit, the fact they recruit IL hard for students, and lack of exit fee.

Somebody doesn't know the Mizzou fan base. They fit in perfectly with the SEC and the B1G was wise to avoid them.

(08-12-2020 05:59 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 05:34 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 05:16 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If Iowa leaves with Nebraska, stand pat at 12 and enjoy two fewer mouths to feed and no schools on the wrong side of the river.

Obviously there would be a ton of ACC schools that I would want. Assume none of them break the GOR.

If Nebraska only leaves, make a run at Missouri (I know they're West but they at least border the river as opposed to Nebraska). Maybe Kentucky?

Then we're down to non P5. I'd say UConn. Yes, their football sucks but who's left? Temple? Cincinnati? UConn at least brings a new market and the best academics. I would love Temple and Penn State is pretty far away from Philly (almost 200 miles between Beaver Stadium and Lincoln Financial Field).

Kentucky might be across the river from Big Ten states but the cultural divide between Kentucky and The Big Ten is much much wider.

UK would be more of a cultural outliner in The Big Ten than Missouri is in The SEC. UK would never leave The SEC.

Then again, Kentucky's a (men's) basketball school in a football conference. And are they as Southern as Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi? UK probably belongs in the ACC the most, especially with Louisville there. But if they're a basketball school, basketball's better in the Big Ten than the SEC and Indiana-Kentucky would be a better rivalry than Kentucky-Florida (Florida's better but geographically further away).

Kentucky and Indiana used to play every year out of conference. They haven’t played football since 1999 and basketball since 2016. They were scheduled to continue the basketball series but couldn’t agree on where to play UK wanted neutral site games and IU wanted a true home and home.

Kentucky was actually approached about joining the ACC in 1989. They turned it down because they are a founding member of The SEC
Here is a link to a podcast that discusses those events.

https://oscarcombs.com/2016/11/episode-5...-jim-host/

(08-12-2020 06:30 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(08-11-2020 10:34 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Mizzou by default of not being able to get their other targets. Mizzou will make the move because of academics, cultural fit, the fact they recruit IL hard for students, and lack of exit fee.

Somebody doesn't know the Mizzou fan base. They fit in perfectly with the SEC and the B1G was wise to avoid them.

I am very familiar with Mizzou’s fan base. Been to Columbia several times and know plenty alums. There’s nothing southern about that town or fan base.

Mizzou’s scanned gate attendance:
BXII 2011 (8-5): 48k
SEC 2018 (8-5): 24k

Mizzou’s UG enrollment:
1) Missouri 71.8%
2) Illinois 15.6%
3) Texas 3.0%
4) Kansas 1.9%
5) Minnesota 1.0%
6) California 0.7%
7) Colorado 0.5%
8) Nebraska 0.5%
9) Iowa 0.5%
10) Wisconsin 0.4%

Less than 1% of Mizzou’s UG enrollment comes from original SEC states.

It’s bad enough that Mizzou has to keep plastering SEC billboards all over town because they have to force it with the fan base. Their head coach alone was buying 5k tickets in an 8-5 season.

Yes, people will provide anecdotes “this Mizzou fan/colleague I know is thrilled with the move”. It’s meaningless — outspoken Mizzou fans have the reputation for being delusional. By every objective measure, Mizzou’s fan base as a whole is disconnected from and disinterested in the SEC.

There is no evidence-based argument that Mizzou fits in (“perfectly”!) with the SEC. It’s fantasy.

I’m assuming you were joking?

(08-12-2020 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Then the question becomes does the rebuilding Big 12 pick up Arkansas and Missouri and Notre Dame as a partial as they would be the most likely to accommodate the Irish on those terms. If these two moves seem unlikely remember their history. Broyles wanted the SEC because he believed, probably correctly, that Arkansas was about to be left out of the formation of the Big 12 which was being discussed at the time Arkansas jumped. The Hogs are accepted by all SEC schools and they have made a home here, but clearly the SEC was an escape and clearly their interests more closely ally with Texas. Missouri jumped for a chair when the music was about to stop. They have very very little history with SEC schools. Vanderbilt was the only school they had played more than 5 times when they joined the SEC (A&M excluded). If Nebraska and Colorado return to the Big 12 and Arkansas felt welcomed and the SEC could effectively grow to the East without losing revenue in the exchange then from a business perspective anything is possible. Arkansas, and Missouri very soon, will be facing the same dilemma that Nebraska faces, remain for the money and lose you historical roots and your regional appeal, or do what it is said none of can do successfully, return to home after a lifetime away. For Missouri the move is still a blip. For Arkansas it's been a long time

But as far as Big 10 backfill goes if Nebraska returns Oklahoma has zero reason to leave and a prime example as to why not to even consider it. Texas was never leaving anyway. Notre Dame will choose whatever enables their business model to continue as is and that is not the Big 10 or SEC for that matter. So the only schools vulnerable for a move would be those from the ACC, or perhaps Cal, U.C.L.A., Oregon, and Washington, in which case Colorado makes a good bridge for the Big 10. But if that is to be the case I think the Big 10 will have exhausted its efforts to break the ACC first, and quite frankly without Nebraska even Colorado is a stretch.

Covid has changed so many things, realignment scenarios included.

Yes, if Nebraska is able to come back to the B12, OU has no reason to leave a B12 w/Nebraska unless there is still a massive revenue gap between the SEC and B12. An addition of Nebraska and another school may help in that regard. Covid is going to turn everything upside down before we finalize new TV deals.

There are no two fan bases that like being in the SEC more than Arkansas and Texas A&M. No one yells S-E-C louder. There is great identity there with the SEC, especially for A&M. A&M isn't leaving the SEC. Arkansas could, especially after they got hosed by the conference office on this year's Covid-revised schedule while they were at the beginning of a rebuilding period. Their fans like being in the SEC, but they also miss Texas. Plus, their campus is within short driving distance of OU, OSU, KU, K-State, and TCU. As you mentioned, they feared being left out of the original B12, and the SEC was the best option. It's worked out for them some of the time in other sports, but their football program has struggled.

If Nebraska returns to the B12, Missouri would be tempted to do the same thing. As you mentioned, they were afraid of being left without a chair when the music stopped. After their first two years, they have floundered across the board in the SEC. They were also forced to drop games this year with Central Arkansas and Eastern Michigan, only to be given Alabama and LSU by the SEC schedulers. They are a stepchild and a fish out of water in the SEC.

There is something to be said for being home. In the middle of the country, home is the Big 12, or the old Big 8 and SWC.

(08-12-2020 07:37 PM)johnintx Wrote:  There is something to be said for being home. In the middle of the country, home is the Big 12, or the old Big 8 and SWC.

When MU left, I knew, culturally, it was going to be bad for them; not sure if I posted that thought here or not. It sure didn't take long to come true.

KU helped keep MU civil and moving forward, and MU helped keep KU on its toes and competitive. I don't know why, but it all must have come from our long, joint history of not only the institutions but also our two states and peoples.

(08-12-2020 10:07 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 07:37 PM)johnintx Wrote:  There is something to be said for being home. In the middle of the country, home is the Big 12, or the old Big 8 and SWC.

When MU left, I knew, culturally, it was going to be bad for them; not sure if I posted that thought here or not. It sure didn't take long to come true.

KU helped keep MU civil and moving forward, and MU helped keep KU on its toes and competitive. I don't know why, but it all must have come from our long, joint history of not only the institutions but also our two states and peoples.

Kansas and Missouri fought a war against each other. It can only improve from there.

You hate each other, but you need each other. I mean that with respect.

They are a Midwestern school. They're a fish out of water in the SEC.

If Nebraska and Missouri can find their way back to the Big 12, I'm all for OU staying in it.

(08-12-2020 11:23 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 10:07 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 07:37 PM)johnintx Wrote:  There is something to be said for being home. In the middle of the country, home is the Big 12, or the old Big 8 and SWC.

When MU left, I knew, culturally, it was going to be bad for them; not sure if I posted that thought here or not. It sure didn't take long to come true.

KU helped keep MU civil and moving forward, and MU helped keep KU on its toes and competitive. I don't know why, but it all must have come from our long, joint history of not only the institutions but also our two states and peoples.

Kansas and Missouri fought a war against each other. It can only improve from there.

You hate each other, but you need each other. I mean that with respect.

They are a Midwestern school. They're a fish out of water in the SEC.

If Nebraska and Missouri can find their way back to the Big 12, I'm all for OU staying in it.

If Nebraska and Missouri find their ways back into the Big 12 it will be because ESPN has decided that in order to keep their rights to Texas they need to preserve the Big 12 that they were trying to destroy just 10 years ago.

And it might be because they have plans to annex some of the better product from the PAC 12 in a 16 or even 18 member Big 12.

And it might be because they intend to shelter what they really want from the ACC in the SEC and use the best of the rest to access even more of the Big 10 by perhaps going hard after the Big 10's basketball rights owned currently by CBS.

Or, if you really want to get Machiavellian perhaps if Iowa and Nebraska head to the Big 12, Notre Dame can convince Penn State to be the 16th member of the ACC, and the SEC can move to 18 with Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin and if Missouri heads back to the Big 12 even Indiana to give Kentucky a great rival.

Then Maryland and Purdue take the ACC to 18.

Three conferences of a consolidated 54 is a lot more profitable for marketing purposes and if academics get totally separated from athletics then why not?

An SEC with the 5 Big 10 schools mentioned, would be worth 100 million plus per school. Maybe even 110 million. And those top brand Big 10 schools would have direct access to Southern recruits and games in their areas regularly and besides there are a boat load of Big 10 alumni already in major Southern cities. Plus the money, right?

I suggest these things merely to say this. We are on the other side of reason now. In the future State and Federal funding is going to be tough to get. Money will be a motivator in athletic movement even more than before. So even though I'm merely being intentionally provocative with what I suggest, anything is going to be possible. Big changes are coming and this time there is no conventional wisdom to say this or that simply will not change.

(08-12-2020 11:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 11:23 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 10:07 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 07:37 PM)johnintx Wrote:  There is something to be said for being home. In the middle of the country, home is the Big 12, or the old Big 8 and SWC.

When MU left, I knew, culturally, it was going to be bad for them; not sure if I posted that thought here or not. It sure didn't take long to come true.

KU helped keep MU civil and moving forward, and MU helped keep KU on its toes and competitive. I don't know why, but it all must have come from our long, joint history of not only the institutions but also our two states and peoples.

Kansas and Missouri fought a war against each other. It can only improve from there.

You hate each other, but you need each other. I mean that with respect.

They are a Midwestern school. They're a fish out of water in the SEC.

If Nebraska and Missouri can find their way back to the Big 12, I'm all for OU staying in it.

If Nebraska and Missouri find their ways back into the Big 12 it will be because ESPN has decided that in order to keep their rights to Texas they need to preserve the Big 12 that they were trying to destroy just 10 years ago.

And it might be because they have plans to annex some of the better product from the PAC 12 in a 16 or even 18 member Big 12.

And it might be because they intend to shelter what they really want from the ACC in the SEC and use the best of the rest to access even more of the Big 10 by perhaps going hard after the Big 10's basketball rights owned currently by CBS.

Or, if you really want to get Machiavellian perhaps if Iowa and Nebraska head to the Big 12, Notre Dame can convince Penn State to be the 16th member of the ACC, and the SEC can move to 18 with Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin and if Missouri heads back to the Big 12 even Indiana to give Kentucky a great rival.

Then Maryland and Purdue take the ACC to 18.

Three conferences of a consolidated 54 is a lot more profitable for marketing purposes and if academics get totally separated from athletics then why not?

An SEC with the 5 Big 10 schools mentioned, would be worth 100 million plus per school. Maybe even 110 million. And those top brand Big 10 schools would have direct access to Southern recruits and games in their areas regularly and besides there are a boat load of Big 10 alumni already in major Southern cities. Plus the money, right?

I suggest these things merely to say this. We are on the other side of reason now. In the future State and Federal funding is going to be tough to get. Money will be a motivator in athletic movement even more than before. So even though I'm merely being intentionally provocative with what I suggest, anything is going to be possible. Big changes are coming and this time there is no conventional wisdom to say this or that simply will not change.

Is this crazy, or what? Who would have thought just two weeks ago that we would be discussing dividing Big Ten schools among the SEC and ACC. But this is the new world, and anything is going to be possible.

We'll see what happens with Covid.

Mizzou does seem like a very awkward fit in the SEC, but I am not sure that they would have any desire to join the Big Ten now. Prior to the Big Ten taking Nebraska, I could really see it, but not anymore. I think that Mizzou would make the SEC work unless the SEC really began treating them bad. The question then becomes who does the Big Ten go after? Syracuse is a geographic fit(near the Great Lakes), but not an institutional fit (only one private school currently in the Big Ten). Pittsburgh could be a possibility, but would PSU and OSU sign off on it??

UConn would be an institutional fit, would be slightly less of an outlier than Nebraska, does have a great basketball program, and would solidify the Big Ten's hold on NYC. Football would be abysmal though.

I don't see UVa or VT wanting to make a move to the Big Ten...yet. I have not really seen Virginia's governor come out in support of the ACC yet, so anything is possible.

(08-13-2020 03:16 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Mizzou does seem like a very awkward fit in the SEC, but I am not sure that they would have any desire to join the Big Ten now. Prior to the Big Ten taking Nebraska, I could really see it, but not anymore. I think that Mizzou would make the SEC work unless the SEC really began treating them bad. The question then becomes who does the Big Ten go after? Syracuse is a geographic fit(near the Great Lakes), but not an institutional fit (only one private school currently in the Big Ten). Pittsburgh could be a possibility, but would PSU and OSU sign off on it??

UConn would be an institutional fit, would be slightly less of an outlier than Nebraska, does have a great basketball program, and would solidify the Big Ten's hold on NYC. Football would be abysmal though.

I don't see UVa or VT wanting to make a move to the Big Ten...yet. I have not really seen Virginia's governor come out in support of the ACC yet, so anything is possible.

You guys keep bringing up UConn and Buffalo and all I can say is I do not believe if would ever happen. The B10 has enough weak football sisters in the bottom quartile if the conference- they are not about to add another one.

(08-12-2020 11:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  If Nebraska and Missouri find their ways back into the Big 12 it will be because ESPN has decided that in order to keep their rights to Texas they need to preserve the Big 12 that they were trying to destroy just 10 years ago.

And it might be because they have plans to annex some of the better product from the PAC 12 in a 16 or even 18 member Big 12.

And it might be because they intend to shelter what they really want from the ACC in the SEC and use the best of the rest to access even more of the Big 10 by perhaps going hard after the Big 10's basketball rights owned currently by CBS.

Or, if you really want to get Machiavellian perhaps if Iowa and Nebraska head to the Big 12, Notre Dame can convince Penn State to be the 16th member of the ACC, and the SEC can move to 18 with Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin and if Missouri heads back to the Big 12 even Indiana to give Kentucky a great rival.

Then Maryland and Purdue take the ACC to 18.

Three conferences of a consolidated 54 is a lot more profitable for marketing purposes and if academics get totally separated from athletics then why not?

An SEC with the 5 Big 10 schools mentioned, would be worth 100 million plus per school. Maybe even 110 million. And those top brand Big 10 schools would have direct access to Southern recruits and games in their areas regularly and besides there are a boat load of Big 10 alumni already in major Southern cities. Plus the money, right?

I suggest these things merely to say this. We are on the other side of reason now. In the future State and Federal funding is going to be tough to get. Money will be a motivator in athletic movement even more than before. So even though I'm merely being intentionally provocative with what I suggest, anything is going to be possible. Big changes are coming and this time there is no conventional wisdom to say this or that simply will not change.

Purdue goes with Indiana. It's a two-for-one deal. It's the least you can do for taking the big dogs of the Big 10.

Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue
Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, LSU, Texas A&M

Boston College, Northwestern, Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Notre Dame
Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest
NC State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Florida State, Miami

West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State, Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota
Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas, Tulane

(08-13-2020 04:41 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-13-2020 03:16 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Mizzou does seem like a very awkward fit in the SEC, but I am not sure that they would have any desire to join the Big Ten now. Prior to the Big Ten taking Nebraska, I could really see it, but not anymore. I think that Mizzou would make the SEC work unless the SEC really began treating them bad. The question then becomes who does the Big Ten go after? Syracuse is a geographic fit(near the Great Lakes), but not an institutional fit (only one private school currently in the Big Ten). Pittsburgh could be a possibility, but would PSU and OSU sign off on it??

UConn would be an institutional fit, would be slightly less of an outlier than Nebraska, does have a great basketball program, and would solidify the Big Ten's hold on NYC. Football would be abysmal though.

I don't see UVa or VT wanting to make a move to the Big Ten...yet. I have not really seen Virginia's governor come out in support of the ACC yet, so anything is possible.

You guys keep bringing up UConn and Buffalo and all I can say is I do not believe if would ever happen. The B10 has enough weak football sisters in the bottom quartile if the conference- they are not about to add another one.

Not to mention the fact that Uconn signed a pretty stiff contract with the Big East: not a GoR, but big penalties should they leave any time in the next several years.

Not that the Big Ten can't throw $$$ at the situation, but Uconn is hardly "there for the asking." It'd be expensive for both parties.

(08-12-2020 06:45 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 05:59 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 05:34 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-12-2020 05:16 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If Iowa leaves with Nebraska, stand pat at 12 and enjoy two fewer mouths to feed and no schools on the wrong side of the river.

Obviously there would be a ton of ACC schools that I would want. Assume none of them break the GOR.

If Nebraska only leaves, make a run at Missouri (I know they're West but they at least border the river as opposed to Nebraska). Maybe Kentucky?

Then we're down to non P5. I'd say UConn. Yes, their football sucks but who's left? Temple? Cincinnati? UConn at least brings a new market and the best academics. I would love Temple and Penn State is pretty far away from Philly (almost 200 miles between Beaver Stadium and Lincoln Financial Field).

Kentucky might be across the river from Big Ten states but the cultural divide between Kentucky and The Big Ten is much much wider.

UK would be more of a cultural outliner in The Big Ten than Missouri is in The SEC. UK would never leave The SEC.

Then again, Kentucky's a (men's) basketball school in a football conference. And are they as Southern as Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi? UK probably belongs in the ACC the most, especially with Louisville there. But if they're a basketball school, basketball's better in the Big Ten than the SEC and Indiana-Kentucky would be a better rivalry than Kentucky-Florida (Florida's better but geographically further away).

Kentucky and Indiana used to play every year out of conference. They haven’t played football since 1999 and basketball since 2016. They were scheduled to continue the basketball series but couldn’t agree on where to play UK wanted neutral site games and IU wanted a true home and home.

Kentucky was actually approached about joining the ACC in 1989. They turned it down because they are a founding member of The SEC
Here is a link to a podcast that discusses those events.

https://oscarcombs.com/2016/11/episode-5...-jim-host/

https://kentuckysportsradio.com/main/cm-...g-the-acc/

“We talked to them very seriously, but very quietly,” Newton said last week. “Dr. Wethington had me go over and talk to them for a short period one evening. They wanted us to come on and join their league. I thought, with the way (UK) football was (struggling in the SEC), that might have been the best path for us. I always felt like (Florida State) was an SEC school in the ACC and Kentucky an ACC school in the SEC. There were a lot of ways in which I thought (UK moving to) the ACC made sense, but at the end of the day, it’s just doggone tough for a school to leave the SEC.”