(02-23-2020 01:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 01:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-22-2020 10:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  But however you do it---you need to do it in a way that the G5 becomes more intertwined with the P5 post season---not less.

Yes, that's why I've said the only way a G5 championship playoffs makes sense is if it feeds in to a playoff vs the P5 champions.

I actually wouldn't necessarily oppose such a G5 title game (though it would not be my preference). It would clearly generate lots of interest.

Why? We effectively already have a G5 championship with the winner playing in the access bowl. What I think we need to aiming for a suitable landing spots for the 4 G5 champions who end up in nameless generic pre Christmas bowls playing against lack luster opponents. For instance---the CUSA champ got stuck playing against a 7 win MAC team a few years ago. While they play P5's---the MW and AAC champs play against 6 and 7 win P5 teams when they dont make the access bowl. Thats what the G5 should be aiming to improve. If winning a G5 lands the champ in a major exciting bowl vs a a high quality opponent---then the G5 races become more improtant (which gives those conference races the kind of context that increases fan interest and regular season ratings).

(02-23-2020 01:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-22-2020 10:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  But however you do it---you need to do it in a way that the G5 becomes more intertwined with the P5 post season---not less.

Yes, that's why I've said the only way a G5 championship playoffs makes sense is if it feeds in to a playoff vs the P5 champions.

That doesn't make any sense either, you have to win a tournament to compete with other conferences in your division?

(02-23-2020 01:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 01:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-22-2020 10:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  But however you do it---you need to do it in a way that the G5 becomes more intertwined with the P5 post season---not less.

Yes, that's why I've said the only way a G5 championship playoffs makes sense is if it feeds in to a playoff vs the P5 champions.

I actually wouldn't necessarily oppose such a G5 title game (though it would not be my preference). It would clearly generate lots of interest.

That’s right bill, I think it would CLEARLY generate lots of interest, but how long will it take to generate enough interest to be successful and be able to compete with the A5 for recruits and eyeballs
With player compensation starting in 2023 this might just be the time to separate and at the same time get the much needed network to showcase our “ committee “ free true playoffs
This network obviously would bill this new FBS league as a “ FBS” top level college football league and would be broadcast simultaneously as that other autonomous league
Now, where do we find that “ other network “ that is willing to lay down the money to get started...
Most of you other dudes on here are stuck on a pipe dream that has already sailed away...

(02-23-2020 03:05 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 01:50 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 01:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-22-2020 10:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  But however you do it---you need to do it in a way that the G5 becomes more intertwined with the P5 post season---not less.

Yes, that's why I've said the only way a G5 championship playoffs makes sense is if it feeds in to a playoff vs the P5 champions.

I actually wouldn't necessarily oppose such a G5 title game (though it would not be my preference). It would clearly generate lots of interest.

That’s right bill, I think it would CLEARLY generate lots of interest, but how long will it take to generate enough interest to be successful and be able to compete with the A5 for recruits and eyeballs
With player compensation starting in 2023 this might just be the time to separate and at the same time get the much needed network to showcase our “ committee “ free true playoffs
This network obviously would bill this new FBS league as a “ FBS” top level college football league and would be broadcast simultaneously as that other autonomous league
Now, where do we find that “ other network “ that is willing to lay down the money to get started...
Most of you other dudes on here are stuck on a pipe dream that has already sailed away...

As soon as 5 to 10 G5 teams are drawing 100K to games and the rest are largely drawing 40-60K to their games. That said---if you can get where 50-60% of G5 teams are drawing between 40-60K you can probably have an event with some pretty decent interest. But here's the thing---if you formed a conference of present G5 teams that all drew an average of 40-60K to each game of the season (hypotehtical condition)----that conference would probably get pretty decent access to the current CFP system. Heck---such a conference might even be accepted as a power conference by the current P5 and media.

Ok boss, if you love the A5 so much and their fake championship why don’t you simply become a longhorn fan or Aggie fan, heck it will be a lot quicker for ya

(02-23-2020 05:34 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Ok boss, if you love the A5 so much and their fake championship why don’t you simply become a longhorn fan or Aggie fan, heck it will be a lot quicker for ya

You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. We're fighting for inclusion not separation.

(02-23-2020 05:34 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Ok boss, if you love the A5 so much and their fake championship why don’t you simply become a longhorn fan or Aggie fan, heck it will be a lot quicker for ya

lol....As Bill Yoeman used to say, "Its tough being a Coog". Look, there may come a time when the G5 is so marginalized there is no value to remaining with the P5. At that point, you'll probably get your wish. But right now---we arent there yet.

The reality is access has actually improved over the last two decades. When the BCS began---there was no access at all for non-AQ (the old BCS verbiage for G5) schools. Then the G5 fought for and gained a conditional pathway to a major NYD bowl if the school met certain ranking criteria in a given season ("BCS busters"). Still, often no G5 school would qualify in a given season. Then, when the CFP began, the G5 was given an automatic berth in a NYD game---meaning they were guaranteed a NYD post season slot every year. Hopefully---in 6 years---the next version of the CFP will expand to 8 and the G5 will be awarded a guaranteed slot in the payoff. If we can end up with a real legitimate path to the playoff from the G5---I can live with that.

Let me be clear. I have noted in previous posts that my ideal eight-team playoff would involve the winners of each P5 (assuming each met some basic minimum requirements for inclusion), the best team from the G5 (again, assuming some requirements are met ... say, 12 wins as one example) and two at-large selections.

But, if the only way a G5 team can be included in the eight-team playoff is via a play-in game ... though not my preference, that game could generate some national interest (and, of course, additional revenue). I would be OK with that. Again, it's not my preference.

I guess I have the next Winter Olympics to get excited about

(02-23-2020 06:58 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 05:34 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Ok boss, if you love the A5 so much and their fake championship why don’t you simply become a longhorn fan or Aggie fan, heck it will be a lot quicker for ya

You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. We're fighting for inclusion not separation.

Look, y’all are fighting for inclusion and that’s ok, for me Iam taking the path less traveled leading to separation

Early bird gets the worm or second mouse gets the cheese, you decide, I have already and feel much better...

the only version of this that can even be close to agreeable is for the 4 conference champions that dont get the NY6 spot play each other in a bowl game. it also requires the least amount of change.

Think about this potential option:

1) 5-2-1 playoff (already discussed)
2) Sun Bowl for the next 2 highest rated teams (unless in the same conference)

Go back the last 5 years and this is who you would have.

2019
Playoff #17 Memphis
Sun Bowl #19 Boise St. vs. #20 App St.

2018
Playoff #8 UCF
Sun Bowl #21 Fresno St. vs. 11-2 Cincinnati

2017
Playoff #12 UCF
Sun Bowl #20 Memphis vs. #25 Boise St.

2016
Playoff #15 Western Michigan
Sun Bowl #24 Temple vs. 11-3 San Diego St.

2015
Playoff #18 Houston
Sun Bowl #21 Navy vs. 12-2 Western Kentucky

Here I'm going by CFP ranking then by record. As you can see with 15 possible slots the AAC and MWC fill all but 3 of them. At least the 2019 App St, 2016 WMU and 2015 WKU teams were all covered in this case with a better than average bowl game.

Superior match ups than what the Sun Bowl is getting these days.

(02-23-2020 08:23 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  the only version of this that can even be close to agreeable is for the 4 conference champions that dont get the NY6 spot play each other in a bowl game. it also requires the least amount of change.

I agree with you here totally

(02-23-2020 02:17 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 01:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-22-2020 10:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  But however you do it---you need to do it in a way that the G5 becomes more intertwined with the P5 post season---not less.

Yes, that's why I've said the only way a G5 championship playoffs makes sense is if it feeds in to a playoff vs the P5 champions.

That doesn't make any sense either, you have to win a tournament to compete with other conferences in your division?

Remember, FBS was never intended nor created to be a division in which members compete for a common championship. In fact, it was just the opposite - FBS was the catchall category for schools that did not want to compete in an NCAA-organized playoffs to determine a common champion.

So if FBS goes to that model it makes no sense, e.g., for the winner of the Sun Belt conference to be on a par with the Big 12 winner in terms of entry into a limited playoffs. It would be fine to do that if football playoffs were big like the NCAA hoops tourney is, but if we are talking a small 8-team or 16-team field, it makes sense that the Sun Belt champ has to jump through additional hoops, like beating the other G5 champs, to gain entry.

(02-23-2020 11:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 02:17 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 01:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-22-2020 10:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  But however you do it---you need to do it in a way that the G5 becomes more intertwined with the P5 post season---not less.

Yes, that's why I've said the only way a G5 championship playoffs makes sense is if it feeds in to a playoff vs the P5 champions.

That doesn't make any sense either, you have to win a tournament to compete with other conferences in your division?

Remember, FBS was never intended nor created to be a division in which members compete for a common championship. In fact, it was just the opposite - FBS was the catchall category for schools that did not want to compete in an NCAA-organized playoffs to determine a common champion.

So if FBS goes to that model it makes no sense, e.g., for the winner of the Sun Belt conference to be on a par with the Big 12 winner in terms of entry into a limited playoffs. It would be fine to do that if football playoffs were big like the NCAA hoops tourney is, but if we are talking a small 8-team or 16-team field, it makes sense that the Sun Belt champ has to jump through additional hoops, like beating the other G5 champs, to gain entry.

Mybe you should be posting on the righteous board and after reading your history post one thing comes to mind “history doesn’t dictate the future “, not even in college football, didn’t you know that?
The best thing for college football is to first recognize what’s the best way forward into the “future “ and that you ay is to fourm two equal leagues kinda like in MLB, national league and American League where each league has its own playoff and each league champ plays for a final champion
Remember there is a lot that history call tell us, like when in the early days in the pros in football and baseball when new leagues were formed to play the established league these new leagues were perceived as a lesser or inferior product but I feel that in this specific day and time the time is right now to form this “ G5 “ league ahead of the impending player compensation
All you “ now it alls “ on here are just not comfortable taking that first step but it’s ok go ahead and take that first step into the unknown, I feel we will land on solid ground
Just say’n

(02-24-2020 06:20 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 11:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 02:17 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 01:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-22-2020 10:20 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  But however you do it---you need to do it in a way that the G5 becomes more intertwined with the P5 post season---not less.

Yes, that's why I've said the only way a G5 championship playoffs makes sense is if it feeds in to a playoff vs the P5 champions.

That doesn't make any sense either, you have to win a tournament to compete with other conferences in your division?

Remember, FBS was never intended nor created to be a division in which members compete for a common championship. In fact, it was just the opposite - FBS was the catchall category for schools that did not want to compete in an NCAA-organized playoffs to determine a common champion.

So if FBS goes to that model it makes no sense, e.g., for the winner of the Sun Belt conference to be on a par with the Big 12 winner in terms of entry into a limited playoffs. It would be fine to do that if football playoffs were big like the NCAA hoops tourney is, but if we are talking a small 8-team or 16-team field, it makes sense that the Sun Belt champ has to jump through additional hoops, like beating the other G5 champs, to gain entry.

Mybe you should be posting on the righteous board and after reading your history post one thing comes to mind “history doesn’t dictate the future “, not even in college football, didn’t you know that?
The best thing for college football is to first recognize what’s the best way forward into the “future “ and that you ay is to fourm two equal leagues kinda like in MLB, national league and American League where each league has its own playoff and each league champ plays for a final champion
Remember there is a lot that history call tell us, like when in the early days in the pros in football and baseball when new leagues were formed to play the established league these new leagues were perceived as a lesser or inferior product but I feel that in this specific day and time the time is right now to form this “ G5 “ league ahead of the impending player compensation
All you “ now it alls “ on here are just not comfortable taking that first step but it’s ok go ahead and take that first step into the unknown, I feel we will land on solid ground
Just say’n

We're all just offering our opinions mate. That said, i don't think there's any comparing the AFL vs NFL and the G5 vs P5. By the time the AFL and NFL started to play, the AFL was getting top players.

(02-24-2020 11:22 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-24-2020 06:20 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 11:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 02:17 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 01:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Yes, that's why I've said the only way a G5 championship playoffs makes sense is if it feeds in to a playoff vs the P5 champions.

That doesn't make any sense either, you have to win a tournament to compete with other conferences in your division?

Remember, FBS was never intended nor created to be a division in which members compete for a common championship. In fact, it was just the opposite - FBS was the catchall category for schools that did not want to compete in an NCAA-organized playoffs to determine a common champion.

So if FBS goes to that model it makes no sense, e.g., for the winner of the Sun Belt conference to be on a par with the Big 12 winner in terms of entry into a limited playoffs. It would be fine to do that if football playoffs were big like the NCAA hoops tourney is, but if we are talking a small 8-team or 16-team field, it makes sense that the Sun Belt champ has to jump through additional hoops, like beating the other G5 champs, to gain entry.

Mybe you should be posting on the righteous board and after reading your history post one thing comes to mind “history doesn’t dictate the future “, not even in college football, didn’t you know that?
The best thing for college football is to first recognize what’s the best way forward into the “future “ and that you ay is to fourm two equal leagues kinda like in MLB, national league and American League where each league has its own playoff and each league champ plays for a final champion
Remember there is a lot that history call tell us, like when in the early days in the pros in football and baseball when new leagues were formed to play the established league these new leagues were perceived as a lesser or inferior product but I feel that in this specific day and time the time is right now to form this “ G5 “ league ahead of the impending player compensation
All you “ now it alls “ on here are just not comfortable taking that first step but it’s ok go ahead and take that first step into the unknown, I feel we will land on solid ground
Just say’n

We're all just offering our opinions mate. That said, i don't think there's any comparing the AFL vs NFL and the G5 vs P5. By the time the AFL and NFL started to play, the AFL was getting top players.

Honestly the landscape is so filled with potential land mines that its impossible to really know how this P5/G5 relationship will shake out. Free transfer, NIL, and even full on pay-for-play free agency could all potentially be part of college football within a couple of years. Any one of those factors, let alone all 3 at once, has the potential to dramatically change the college football landscape as we know it.

(02-24-2020 12:50 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-24-2020 11:22 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-24-2020 06:20 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 11:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-23-2020 02:17 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  That doesn't make any sense either, you have to win a tournament to compete with other conferences in your division?

Remember, FBS was never intended nor created to be a division in which members compete for a common championship. In fact, it was just the opposite - FBS was the catchall category for schools that did not want to compete in an NCAA-organized playoffs to determine a common champion.

So if FBS goes to that model it makes no sense, e.g., for the winner of the Sun Belt conference to be on a par with the Big 12 winner in terms of entry into a limited playoffs. It would be fine to do that if football playoffs were big like the NCAA hoops tourney is, but if we are talking a small 8-team or 16-team field, it makes sense that the Sun Belt champ has to jump through additional hoops, like beating the other G5 champs, to gain entry.

Mybe you should be posting on the righteous board and after reading your history post one thing comes to mind “history doesn’t dictate the future “, not even in college football, didn’t you know that?
The best thing for college football is to first recognize what’s the best way forward into the “future “ and that you ay is to fourm two equal leagues kinda like in MLB, national league and American League where each league has its own playoff and each league champ plays for a final champion
Remember there is a lot that history call tell us, like when in the early days in the pros in football and baseball when new leagues were formed to play the established league these new leagues were perceived as a lesser or inferior product but I feel that in this specific day and time the time is right now to form this “ G5 “ league ahead of the impending player compensation
All you “ now it alls “ on here are just not comfortable taking that first step but it’s ok go ahead and take that first step into the unknown, I feel we will land on solid ground
Just say’n

We're all just offering our opinions mate. That said, i don't think there's any comparing the AFL vs NFL and the G5 vs P5. By the time the AFL and NFL started to play, the AFL was getting top players.

Honestly the landscape is so filled with potential land mines that its impossible to really know how this P5/G5 relationship will shake out. Free transfer, NIL, and even full on pay-for-play free agency could all potentially be part of college football within a couple of years. Any one of those factors, let alone all 3 at once, each has the potential to dramatically change the college football landscape as we know it.

Yep, that's why i reject those who are sure that X change will result in Doom for this or that constituency. There are just too many uncertainties to know how things will shake out and to whose benefit or detriment.

Indeed

(02-23-2020 08:46 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  Think about this potential option:

1) 5-2-1 playoff (already discussed)
2) Sun Bowl for the next 2 highest rated teams (unless in the same conference)

Go back the last 5 years and this is who you would have.

2019
Playoff #17 Memphis
Sun Bowl #19 Boise St. vs. #20 App St.
[...]
Superior match ups than what the Sun Bowl is getting these days.

Reminds me of the NY10 proposal. All 10 conference champs and 10 (Top 25) at large teams. All ranked Independents and 2nd place teams from each conference MUST be included. Among the teams who placed 4th or worse from their conference, only the highest ranked in the Top 25 can be included in the NY10 (to protect top conferences from too many G5 games).

2019:
NY#7 (AAC host) #15 Notre Dame (10-2) vs. #12 Auburn (9-3)
NY#8 (MW host) #19 Boise St (12-1) vs. #11 Utah (11-2) [Sun Bowl??]
NY#9 (G3 host) #20 App St (12-1) vs. #21 Cincinnati (10-3)
NY#10 (alt. with #9) NR FAU (10-3) vs. NR Miami(OH) (8-5)

The bowl tied to the AAC gets first pick of both teams because Memphis ascended to the NY6; they can also select teams tied to lower bowls (Boise or App St). Unranked teams will play each other (usually the #9 and #10 bowls, which alternate that duty).

2018:
NY#7 #12 Penn State (9-3) vs. #20 Syracuse (9-3)
NY#8 #21 Fresno St (11-2) vs. #17 Utah (9-4)
NY#10 #25 Boise St (10-3) vs. NR App St (10-2)
NY#9 NR UAB (10-3) vs. NR NIU (8-5)

2017
NY#7 #14 Notre Dame (9-3) vs. #15 TCU (10-3)
NY#8 #25 Boise St (10-3) vs. #13 Stanford (9-4)
NY#9 NR Toledo (11-2) vs. #20 Memphis (10-2)
NY#10 NR FAU (10-3) vs. NR Troy (10-2)

2016
NY#10 #10 Colorado (10-3) vs. #12 OK State (9-3) [WMU ascended to the Cotton]
NY#7 #24 Temple (10-3) vs. #13 Louisville (9-3)
NY#8 NR SDSU (10-3) vs. #18 Stanford (9-3) [#25 Navy lost this spot after the Army game]
NY#9 NR WKU (10-3) vs. NR App St (9-3)

More "G5" vs. "P5" games. The G5 dividens can be baked into the payouts of these second-tier games.