(01-25-2020 08:41 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  High ranking along with 7.5 mil contract get the AAC king of G status. The p5 are not going to give AAC an equal vote, so we will never achieve power status, and it is unlikely we ever get a contract bowl. We can't even get a mid range bowl for our champ/#2.

So the AAC gives up. I have to think about that.

I thought about it and it does not make any sense at all.

(01-26-2020 12:09 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Comparing the ACC to the SEC in hoops is somewhat like doing the same thing with the leagues in football. In other words ... the comparisons rarely work well. The ACC is down this year in hoops but is still typically the best basketball league in the nation year in and year out.

The ACC has six programs that would rank in most folks' all-time Top 25: Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, North Carolina State, Notre Dame and North Carolina.

The SEC has two: Kentucky and Arkansas.

That's true, but surprisingly, the national championships between the conferences is pretty close, in terms of conference affiliation at the time the title was won, the ACC has 15 NCAA titles, the SEC has 11. And that lead has really been generated the last few years, i.e., as of 2013, it was 12 to 11 in favor of the ACC.

Overall, here are the NCAA hoops titles won by conference:

PAC ... 15
ACC ... 15
SEC .... 11
B1G ...... 10
Big East ... 8
Big 8/Big 12/SWC ... 3

The trend definitely favors the ACC, though. The ACC has won 8 national titles since the PAC won its last in 1997 and the B1G won its last in 2000.

IOW's, at the turn of this century, the PAC had 15 titles, the B1G 10, and the ACC had just 7. Now the ACC has 15.

Even in football, recent years have been a boon for the ACC. While the ACC has won 8 coaches or AP football titles overall, three of them have been won the past seven seasons. So five titles in the 60 years between 1953 and 2012, and three since.

Basically, combining hoops and football, 6 of the 23 overall titles the ACC has won have been in the last seven seasons.

The ACC has also bought itself a lot of legacy in the form of expansion, via the additions of teams like Miami in football and Syracuse and Louisville in hoops. To date, however, none of them have contributed a national title to the ACC.

(01-24-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 08:16 AM)esayem Wrote:  The ACC is now an eastern time zone conference featuring schools with similar academic profiles. Except for the recent mercenary addition of Louisville which was based solely on football.

Hoops as well. Louisville got in because of their hoops in addition to football.

People forget that circa 2010 - 2012 the ACC hoops was flagging. The Big East had clearly surpassed the ACC as a hoops conference, something that was intolerable to the ACC. It was a sub-motivation to raid the Big East, in addition to the general motivation of eliminating the Big East as a market competitor in the northeast corridor, the only place the ACC could expand.

No it didn’t.

(01-27-2020 08:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2020 12:09 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Comparing the ACC to the SEC in hoops is somewhat like doing the same thing with the leagues in football. In other words ... the comparisons rarely work well. The ACC is down this year in hoops but is still typically the best basketball league in the nation year in and year out.

The ACC has six programs that would rank in most folks' all-time Top 25: Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, North Carolina State, Notre Dame and North Carolina.

The SEC has two: Kentucky and Arkansas.

That's true, but surprisingly, the national championships between the conferences is pretty close, in terms of conference affiliation at the time the title was won, the ACC has 15 NCAA titles, the SEC has 11. And that lead has really been generated the last few years, i.e., as of 2013, it was 12 to 11 in favor of the ACC.

Overall, here are the NCAA hoops titles won by conference:

PAC ... 15
ACC ... 15
SEC .... 11
B1G ...... 10
Big East ... 8
Big 8/Big 12/SWC ... 3

The trend definitely favors the ACC, though. The ACC has won 8 national titles since the PAC won its last in 1997 and the B1G won its last in 2000.

IOW's, at the turn of this century, the PAC had 15 titles, the B1G 10, and the ACC had just 7. Now the ACC has 15.

Even in football, recent years have been a boon for the ACC. While the ACC has won 8 coaches or AP football titles overall, three of them have been won the past seven seasons. So five titles in the 60 years between 1953 and 2012, and three since.

Basically, combining hoops and football, 6 of the 23 overall titles the ACC has won have been in the last seven seasons.

The ACC has also bought itself a lot of legacy in the form of expansion, via the additions of teams like Miami in football and Syracuse and Louisville in hoops. To date, however, none of them have contributed a national title to the ACC.

Sooo I guess you intentionally omitted the championship that the AAC won so you can play mental gymnastics with people about how it doesn't count.

(01-27-2020 08:36 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 08:16 AM)esayem Wrote:  The ACC is now an eastern time zone conference featuring schools with similar academic profiles. Except for the recent mercenary addition of Louisville which was based solely on football.

Hoops as well. Louisville got in because of their hoops in addition to football.

People forget that circa 2010 - 2012 the ACC hoops was flagging. The Big East had clearly surpassed the ACC as a hoops conference, something that was intolerable to the ACC. It was a sub-motivation to raid the Big East, in addition to the general motivation of eliminating the Big East as a market competitor in the northeast corridor, the only place the ACC could expand.

No it didn’t.

In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

(01-27-2020 09:48 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 08:36 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 08:16 AM)esayem Wrote:  The ACC is now an eastern time zone conference featuring schools with similar academic profiles. Except for the recent mercenary addition of Louisville which was based solely on football.

Hoops as well. Louisville got in because of their hoops in addition to football.

People forget that circa 2010 - 2012 the ACC hoops was flagging. The Big East had clearly surpassed the ACC as a hoops conference, something that was intolerable to the ACC. It was a sub-motivation to raid the Big East, in addition to the general motivation of eliminating the Big East as a market competitor in the northeast corridor, the only place the ACC could expand.

No it didn’t.

In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

Yeah, and it wasn't even close.

From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.

(01-27-2020 10:50 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 09:48 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 08:36 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 08:16 AM)esayem Wrote:  The ACC is now an eastern time zone conference featuring schools with similar academic profiles. Except for the recent mercenary addition of Louisville which was based solely on football.

Hoops as well. Louisville got in because of their hoops in addition to football.

People forget that circa 2010 - 2012 the ACC hoops was flagging. The Big East had clearly surpassed the ACC as a hoops conference, something that was intolerable to the ACC. It was a sub-motivation to raid the Big East, in addition to the general motivation of eliminating the Big East as a market competitor in the northeast corridor, the only place the ACC could expand.

No it didn’t.

In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

Yeah, and it wasn't even close.

From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.

The Big East also had a ton of dead weight and benefited from guaranteed wins over said dead weight in-conference to pad their records.

(01-27-2020 10:55 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:50 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 09:48 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 08:36 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Hoops as well. Louisville got in because of their hoops in addition to football.

People forget that circa 2010 - 2012 the ACC hoops was flagging. The Big East had clearly surpassed the ACC as a hoops conference, something that was intolerable to the ACC. It was a sub-motivation to raid the Big East, in addition to the general motivation of eliminating the Big East as a market competitor in the northeast corridor, the only place the ACC could expand.

No it didn’t.

In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

Yeah, and it wasn't even close.

From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.

The Big East also had a ton of dead weight and benefited from guaranteed wins over said dead weight in-conference to pad their records.

Let’s just compare the top three seasons of conference winning percentage during those years, shall we?

ACC- .642, .640, and .631

Big East- .614, .614, and .612



Was the Big East great? Sure. They had some nice tournament runs. Were they clearly better, hell no. The ACC and Big East both sent over half their teams to the dance twice.

(01-27-2020 08:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2020 12:09 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Comparing the ACC to the SEC in hoops is somewhat like doing the same thing with the leagues in football. In other words ... the comparisons rarely work well. The ACC is down this year in hoops but is still typically the best basketball league in the nation year in and year out.

The ACC has six programs that would rank in most folks' all-time Top 25: Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, North Carolina State, Notre Dame and North Carolina.

The SEC has two: Kentucky and Arkansas.

That's true, but surprisingly, the national championships between the conferences is pretty close, in terms of conference affiliation at the time the title was won, the ACC has 15 NCAA titles, the SEC has 11. And that lead has really been generated the last few years, i.e., as of 2013, it was 12 to 11 in favor of the ACC.

Overall, here are the NCAA hoops titles won by conference:

PAC ... 15
ACC ... 15
SEC .... 11
B1G ...... 10
Big East ... 8
Big 8/Big 12/SWC ... 3

The trend definitely favors the ACC, though. The ACC has won 8 national titles since the PAC won its last in 1997 and the B1G won its last in 2000.

IOW's, at the turn of this century, the PAC had 15 titles, the B1G 10, and the ACC had just 7. Now the ACC has 15.

Even in football, recent years have been a boon for the ACC. While the ACC has won 8 coaches or AP football titles overall, three of them have been won the past seven seasons. So five titles in the 60 years between 1953 and 2012, and three since.

Basically, combining hoops and football, 6 of the 23 overall titles the ACC has won have been in the last seven seasons.

The ACC has also bought itself a lot of legacy in the form of expansion, via the additions of teams like Miami in football and Syracuse and Louisville in hoops. To date, however, none of them have contributed a national title to the ACC.

Big 12-You seem to have forgotten Oklahoma St. They have 2 in addition to the 3 won by Kansas. (edit-are you excluding them because they were MVC at the time?-MVC probably has a number of titles in that case).

(01-27-2020 09:47 AM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 08:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2020 12:09 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Comparing the ACC to the SEC in hoops is somewhat like doing the same thing with the leagues in football. In other words ... the comparisons rarely work well. The ACC is down this year in hoops but is still typically the best basketball league in the nation year in and year out.

The ACC has six programs that would rank in most folks' all-time Top 25: Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, North Carolina State, Notre Dame and North Carolina.

The SEC has two: Kentucky and Arkansas.

That's true, but surprisingly, the national championships between the conferences is pretty close, in terms of conference affiliation at the time the title was won, the ACC has 15 NCAA titles, the SEC has 11. And that lead has really been generated the last few years, i.e., as of 2013, it was 12 to 11 in favor of the ACC.

Overall, here are the NCAA hoops titles won by conference:

PAC ... 15
ACC ... 15
SEC .... 11
B1G ...... 10
Big East ... 8
Big 8/Big 12/SWC ... 3

The trend definitely favors the ACC, though. The ACC has won 8 national titles since the PAC won its last in 1997 and the B1G won its last in 2000.

IOW's, at the turn of this century, the PAC had 15 titles, the B1G 10, and the ACC had just 7. Now the ACC has 15.

Even in football, recent years have been a boon for the ACC. While the ACC has won 8 coaches or AP football titles overall, three of them have been won the past seven seasons. So five titles in the 60 years between 1953 and 2012, and three since.

Basically, combining hoops and football, 6 of the 23 overall titles the ACC has won have been in the last seven seasons.

The ACC has also bought itself a lot of legacy in the form of expansion, via the additions of teams like Miami in football and Syracuse and Louisville in hoops. To date, however, none of them have contributed a national title to the ACC.

Sooo I guess you intentionally omitted the championship that the AAC won so you can play mental gymnastics with people about how it doesn't count.

WTF? I only mentioned the Power conferences and the Big East, because the Big East has a lot. I didn't mention the 2014 AAC title because it was utterly irrelevant to the point.

(01-27-2020 11:05 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:55 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:50 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 09:48 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 08:36 AM)esayem Wrote:  No it didn’t.

In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

Yeah, and it wasn't even close.

From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.

The Big East also had a ton of dead weight and benefited from guaranteed wins over said dead weight in-conference to pad their records.

Let’s just compare the top three seasons of conference winning percentage during those years, shall we?

ACC- .642, .640, and .631

Big East- .614, .614, and .612



Was the Big East great? Sure. They had some nice tournament runs. Were they clearly better, hell no. The ACC and Big East both sent over half their teams to the dance twice.

But, as Quo notes, the postseason success is what was separating the Big East from the ACC during this era (as brought up by Bill). Both were no doubt elite basketball conferences at the time, but while the ACC only had UNC (2008, 2009) and Duke (2010) represented, the Big East had Georgetown (2007), Villanova (2009), UConn (2009), West Virginia (2010), UConn (2011) and Louisville (2012, 2013) and Syracuse (2013) all make the Final Four. The Big East (2006-2013) not only had elite programs, but the parity where any number of teams could make a run at the national championship annually. The ACC really only had UNC and Duke during this period.

(01-27-2020 10:55 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:50 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 09:48 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 08:36 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-24-2020 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Hoops as well. Louisville got in because of their hoops in addition to football.

People forget that circa 2010 - 2012 the ACC hoops was flagging. The Big East had clearly surpassed the ACC as a hoops conference, something that was intolerable to the ACC. It was a sub-motivation to raid the Big East, in addition to the general motivation of eliminating the Big East as a market competitor in the northeast corridor, the only place the ACC could expand.

No it didn’t.

In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

Yeah, and it wasn't even close.

From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.

The Big East also had a ton of dead weight and benefited from guaranteed wins over said dead weight in-conference to pad their records.

The ACC was Duke, UNC, and Everyone Else.

Even with 2 perennial top-10 teams, the ACC typically was an average power conference.

Sagarin conference rankings, by year:
2013- Big East 2nd, ACC 6th
2012 - Big East 3rd, ACC 5th
2011 - Big East 1st, ACC 4th
2010 - ACC 2nd, Big East 3rd
2009 - Big East 4th, ACC 5th
2008 - Big East 3rd, ACC 4th
2007 - ACC 1st, Big East 5th
2006 - Big East 2nd, ACC 4th

Sweet 16 appearances by ACC teams 2006-2013 (14 total)
Duke - 5
UNC - 5
FSU - 1 (2011)
Boston College - 1 (2006)
Miami - 1 (2013)
NC State - 1 (2012)

Sweet 16 appearances by Big East teams 2006-2013 (25 total)
Syracuse - 4
Louisville - 4
West Virginia - 3
Villanova - 3
Marquette - 3
UConn - 3
Pitt - 2
Georgetown - 2
Cincinnati - 1

(01-27-2020 12:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 08:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2020 12:09 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Comparing the ACC to the SEC in hoops is somewhat like doing the same thing with the leagues in football. In other words ... the comparisons rarely work well. The ACC is down this year in hoops but is still typically the best basketball league in the nation year in and year out.

The ACC has six programs that would rank in most folks' all-time Top 25: Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, North Carolina State, Notre Dame and North Carolina.

The SEC has two: Kentucky and Arkansas.

That's true, but surprisingly, the national championships between the conferences is pretty close, in terms of conference affiliation at the time the title was won, the ACC has 15 NCAA titles, the SEC has 11. And that lead has really been generated the last few years, i.e., as of 2013, it was 12 to 11 in favor of the ACC.

Overall, here are the NCAA hoops titles won by conference:

PAC ... 15
ACC ... 15
SEC .... 11
B1G ...... 10
Big East ... 8
Big 8/Big 12/SWC ... 3

The trend definitely favors the ACC, though. The ACC has won 8 national titles since the PAC won its last in 1997 and the B1G won its last in 2000.

IOW's, at the turn of this century, the PAC had 15 titles, the B1G 10, and the ACC had just 7. Now the ACC has 15.

Even in football, recent years have been a boon for the ACC. While the ACC has won 8 coaches or AP football titles overall, three of them have been won the past seven seasons. So five titles in the 60 years between 1953 and 2012, and three since.

Basically, combining hoops and football, 6 of the 23 overall titles the ACC has won have been in the last seven seasons.

The ACC has also bought itself a lot of legacy in the form of expansion, via the additions of teams like Miami in football and Syracuse and Louisville in hoops. To date, however, none of them have contributed a national title to the ACC.

Big 12-You seem to have forgotten Oklahoma St. They have 2 in addition to the 3 won by Kansas. (edit-are you excluding them because they were MVC at the time?-MVC probably has a number of titles in that case).

Yes, as I stated, the list is "conference at the time the title was won". So for example, Syracuse's 2003 title goes to the Big East, not the ACC, etc.

Nor was the list meant to be comprehensive, covering all conferences or independents. I just mentioned the five "power" conferences, with the Big East thrown in because they are comparable in terms of titles won.

And of course since it is NCAA titles, this excludes informal or NIT titles won/claimed before the first NCAA tournament.

(01-27-2020 11:05 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:55 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:50 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 09:48 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 08:36 AM)esayem Wrote:  No it didn’t.

In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

Yeah, and it wasn't even close.

From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.

The Big East also had a ton of dead weight and benefited from guaranteed wins over said dead weight in-conference to pad their records.

Let’s just compare the top three seasons of conference winning percentage during those years, shall we?

ACC- .642, .640, and .631

Big East- .614, .614, and .612



Was the Big East great? Sure. They had some nice tournament runs. Were they clearly better, hell no. The ACC and Big East both sent over half their teams to the dance twice.

Esayem, The stat you provide is noteworthy. But the stat CapBearcat offers is significantly more telling.

Once more:

[b]From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.[/b]

When the BE added DePaul, Marquette, Louisville and Cincy in 2006, the league basically ended ACC supremacy and became better — and maybe even "clearly better." As I posted previously, the Big East at that point had essentially 14 programs that would rank in most folks' all-time Top 75. The ACC had seven or eight at most.

And, to be fair, there was clearly "dead-weight" in the ACC at that time, too. So your point there must be countered.

Now, when the ACC added Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Louisville, and West Virginia left for Big 12 and UConn stayed in the AAC ... the dynamic once again shifted back to the ACC and away from the Big East.

Moving forward (and with UConn rejoining the Big East), I foresee the leagues in hoops being ranked (year in and out, as any league can be "best" any one year) as such:

1. Atlantic Coast
2A. Big Ten
2B. Big East
4. SEC
5. Big 12
6A. Pac-12
*6B. American (* if, and a big if, the AAC can land VCU). Otherwise, the AAC will likely be a true "No. 7" (which it might be regardless year in and year out).

As you likely know, I root for teams in both the Big East and ACC (for whatever that's worth).

(01-27-2020 12:40 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 11:05 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:55 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:50 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 09:48 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

Yeah, and it wasn't even close.

From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.

The Big East also had a ton of dead weight and benefited from guaranteed wins over said dead weight in-conference to pad their records.

Let’s just compare the top three seasons of conference winning percentage during those years, shall we?

ACC- .642, .640, and .631

Big East- .614, .614, and .612



Was the Big East great? Sure. They had some nice tournament runs. Were they clearly better, hell no. The ACC and Big East both sent over half their teams to the dance twice.

But, as Quo notes, the postseason success is what was separating the Big East from the ACC during this era (as brought up by Bill). Both were no doubt elite basketball conferences at the time, but while the ACC only had UNC (2008, 2009) and Duke (2010) represented, the Big East had Georgetown (2007), Villanova (2009), UConn (2009), West Virginia (2010), UConn (2011) and Louisville (2012, 2013) and Syracuse (2013) all make the Final Four. The Big East (2006-2013) not only had elite programs, but the parity where any number of teams could make a run at the national championship annually. The ACC really only had UNC and Duke during this period.

Postseason success is not a good benchmark for how good a conference is overall. Otherwise, the ACC is clearly the second best football conference because of Clemson’s playoff appearances.

The tournament is a crapshoot of match-ups.

(01-27-2020 01:01 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 11:05 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:55 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 10:50 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 09:48 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  In many respects, I strongly feel the Big East had surpassed the ACC in hoops during that time period. Just my opinion.

Yeah, and it wasn't even close.

From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.

The Big East also had a ton of dead weight and benefited from guaranteed wins over said dead weight in-conference to pad their records.

Let’s just compare the top three seasons of conference winning percentage during those years, shall we?

ACC- .642, .640, and .631

Big East- .614, .614, and .612



Was the Big East great? Sure. They had some nice tournament runs. Were they clearly better, hell no. The ACC and Big East both sent over half their teams to the dance twice.

Esayem, The stat you provide is noteworthy. But the stat CapBearcat offers is significantly more telling.

Once more:

[b]From 2006-2013:
Big East had 65 NCAA bids, 8 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles
ACC had 41 NCAA bids, 3 Final Four teams, and 2 national titles.[/b]

When the BE added DePaul, Marquette, Louisville and Cincy in 2006, the league basically ended ACC supremacy and became better — and maybe even "clearly better." As I posted previously, the Big East at that point had essentially 14 programs that would rank in most folks' all-time Top 75. The ACC had seven or eight at most.

And, to be fair, there was clearly "dead-weight" in the ACC at that time, too. So your point there must be countered.

Now, when the ACC added Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Louisville, and West Virginia left for Big 12 and UConn stayed in the AAC ... the dynamic once again shifted back to the ACC and away from the Big East.

Moving forward (and with UConn rejoining the Big East), I foresee the leagues in hoops being ranked (year in and out, as any league can be "best" any one year) as such:

1. Atlantic Coast
2A. Big Ten
2B. Big East
4. SEC
5. Big 12
6A. Pac-12
*6B. American (* if, and a big if, the AAC can land VCU). Otherwise, the AAC will likely be a true "No. 7" (which it might be regardless year in and year out).

As you likely know, I root for teams in both the Big East and ACC (for whatever that's worth).

Don’t forget they added South Florida as well. DePaul, South Florida, St. John’s, Rutgers, Seton Hall, and to a lesser extent Providence all stunk it up during that period. That’s over 33% of the conference.

Remember the 2011 tournament when the Big East got 11 teams in and proceeded to show how tough they were? I think all except UConn and Marquette (UNC would send them packing) had gone home after the first weekend. UConn caught fire when they needed to, but nobody else bothered to show up.

The ACC clearly had a better winning percentage. So no, the Big East never did surpass the ACC.

(01-26-2020 10:34 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  I thought about it and it does not make any sense at all.

Lol

(01-27-2020 01:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  Postseason success is not a good benchmark for how good a conference is overall. Otherwise, the ACC is clearly the second best football conference because of Clemson’s playoff appearances.

I tend to agree with this, although I do think in hoops, NCAA tournament bids is a good marker, as this goes beyond merely who wins the national title, which is always a single team.

But looking at RealTime Conference RPI for 2008 - 2012, as that covers all teams and the period leading up to ACC raids on Big East:

Year ......... ACC .... Big East

2008 ........ 1 ........ 5
2009 ........ 1 ........ 4
2010 ........ 3 ........ 2
2011 ........ 5 ........ 1
2012 ........ 6 ........ 2

To me, this looks like a pattern of the Big East surpassing the ACC as the ACC tumbled from the top.

(01-27-2020 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-27-2020 01:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  Postseason success is not a good benchmark for how good a conference is overall. Otherwise, the ACC is clearly the second best football conference because of Clemson’s playoff appearances.

I tend to agree with this, although I do think in hoops, NCAA tournament bids is a good marker, as this goes beyond merely who wins the national title, which is always a single team.

But looking at RealTime Conference RPI for 2008 - 2012, as that covers all teams and the period leading up to ACC raids on Big East:

Year ......... ACC .... Big East

2008 ........ 1 ........ 5
2009 ........ 1 ........ 4
2010 ........ 3 ........ 2
2011 ........ 5 ........ 1
2012 ........ 6 ........ 2

To me, this looks like a pattern of the Big East surpassing the ACC as the ACC tumbled from the top.

For two seasons and then what? Syracuse hasn’t been close to dominating the ACC, Pitt has finally turned the corner after being shellacked for a few seasons, and Louisville has performed fairly well. Notre Dame is now back to Earth after a few strong showings. If it was a true trend then they would all be atop the ACC standings, no?