It seems apparent that at least 7 of the 14 football members prefer the current alignment above all other plans. If not, then it probably would have been changed by now. It also seems to me that, if one school wants to change it badly enough, they would already have been lobbying others to vote with them. Does it make sense to assume that the representatives of each school have overlooked a solution that could get 8 votes after all this time?

A corollary to this is that if the schools are more or less equally divided between the current alignment and something else, wouldn't the 7 who want no change be inclined to vote against adding any new members, lest that tip the vote against them?

Does anyone have more than a guess as to which schools are opposed to change to any other plan?

Division realignment and conference membership is (by far) more of a fanboy message board subject than the administrations of the member institutions or folks in Greensboro. If the amount of needless energy spent on trying to (apparently) devise the tens of thousands of division alignment permutations or ridiculous fantasy expansion member inclusions that are never going to happen could be spent on discussing the ACC that is doing great and entering a new era with the network under 50 days to launch, there is no telling what great conversations could be had on various fanboy message boards.

Thank goodness the leaders at the schools aren't wasting time like this. The fact that the endless number of division ideas always wind up with a "but if you just move this school over there and move that other one over here" should be a heads up enough to finally recognize that the way it is now serves pretty darn well. It may not be perfect to every individual taste, but trying to make it perfect for every taste will never happen.

(07-06-2019 04:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  It seems apparent that at least 7 of the 14 football members prefer the current alignment above all other plans. If not, then it probably would have been changed by now. It also seems to me that, if one school wants to change it badly enough, they would already have been lobbying others to vote with them. Does it make sense to assume that the representatives of each school have overlooked a solution that could get 8 votes after all this time?

A corollary to this is that if the schools are more or less equally divided between the current alignment and something else, wouldn't the 7 who want no change be inclined to vote against adding any new members, lest that tip the vote against them?

Does anyone have more than a guess as to which schools are opposed to change to any other plan?

Carolina, Duke, Pitt, and GT are PERFECTLY happy. That's four

UVa would like to see Clemson more than once every six years but not too often, and VT would like to be able to flop WF and NC State for Duke and UNC more often.

Miami gets nothing by seeing Clemson more often and they get nothing missing BC and Syracuse most of the time.

(07-06-2019 04:29 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  Division realignment and conference membership is (by far) more of a fanboy message board subject than the administrations of the member institutions or folks in Greensboro. If the amount of needless energy spent on trying to (apparently) devise the tens of thousands of division alignment permutations or ridiculous fantasy expansion member inclusions that are never going to happen could be spent on discussing the ACC that is doing great and entering a new era with the network under 50 days to launch, there is no telling what great conversations could be had on various fanboy message boards.

Thank goodness the leaders at the schools aren't wasting time like this. The fact that the endless number of division ideas always wind up with a "but if you just move this school over there and move that other one over here" should be a heads up enough to finally recognize that the way it is now serves pretty darn well. It may not be perfect to every individual taste, but trying to make it perfect for every taste will never happen.

For all we know, the 14 schools may be overwhelmingly in favor of leaving the divisions the way they are. I doubt there are more than a handful of internet posters who have a clue how their own school votes behind closed doors. For the most part, everyone else is just echoing the chatter on their fan sites, from fans who are as clueless as they are.

(07-06-2019 05:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  For all we know, the 14 schools may be overwhelmingly in favor of leaving the divisions the way they are. I doubt there are more than a handful of internet posters who have a clue how their own school votes behind closed doors. For the most part, everyone else is just echoing the chatter on their fan sites, from fans who are as clueless as they are.

Agree.

I agree as well, and unfortunately the basketball partnerships seem to be okay with the office too. Why would the league not capitalize on Notre Dame-Louisville? It’s like they stopped thinking after Louisville joined the conference.

They’ve wanted a setup without divisions since 2003, what we have now is just a placeholder until that design can be reality. Evidence is in the lack of evolution.

(07-06-2019 04:56 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-06-2019 04:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  It seems apparent that at least 7 of the 14 football members prefer the current alignment above all other plans. If not, then it probably would have been changed by now. It also seems to me that, if one school wants to change it badly enough, they would already have been lobbying others to vote with them. Does it make sense to assume that the representatives of each school have overlooked a solution that could get 8 votes after all this time?

A corollary to this is that if the schools are more or less equally divided between the current alignment and something else, wouldn't the 7 who want no change be inclined to vote against adding any new members, lest that tip the vote against them?

Does anyone have more than a guess as to which schools are opposed to change to any other plan?

Carolina, Duke, Pitt, and GT are PERFECTLY happy. That's four

UVa would like to see Clemson more than once every six years but not too often, and VT would like to be able to flop WF and NC State for Duke and UNC more often.

Miami gets nothing by seeing Clemson more often and they get nothing missing BC and Syracuse most of the time.

I've seen no evidence of this. VT fans are perfectly happy beating the hell out of UNC and Duke on a regular basis. If you have to play 2 North Carolina teams every year, you might as well play the 2 you hate the most. That emotional content breeds interest and it spills over into other sports too.

If we are talking about series that The ACC hasn’t taken advantage: Va Tech vs. Louisville.

We played 7 times in 13 years between 1979-1992 in the regular season and haven’t played since except for the 2006 Gator Bowl. A game that featured the Marcus Vick stomping of Elvis Dumervil’s leg. That along with Louisville leading the effort to kick VaTech out of The Metro has the makings of a nice rivalry.

Va Tech is Louisville’s closest ACC football playing conference mate. A yearly matchup could quickly become an easy road trip for both fan bases and must see ACC.

(07-07-2019 02:36 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(07-06-2019 04:56 PM)Statefan Wrote:  

(07-06-2019 04:10 PM)ken d Wrote:  It seems apparent that at least 7 of the 14 football members prefer the current alignment above all other plans. If not, then it probably would have been changed by now. It also seems to me that, if one school wants to change it badly enough, they would already have been lobbying others to vote with them. Does it make sense to assume that the representatives of each school have overlooked a solution that could get 8 votes after all this time?

A corollary to this is that if the schools are more or less equally divided between the current alignment and something else, wouldn't the 7 who want no change be inclined to vote against adding any new members, lest that tip the vote against them?

Does anyone have more than a guess as to which schools are opposed to change to any other plan?

Carolina, Duke, Pitt, and GT are PERFECTLY happy. That's four

UVa would like to see Clemson more than once every six years but not too often, and VT would like to be able to flop WF and NC State for Duke and UNC more often.

Miami gets nothing by seeing Clemson more often and they get nothing missing BC and Syracuse most of the time.

I've seen no evidence of this. VT fans are perfectly happy beating the hell out of UNC and Duke on a regular basis. If you have to play 2 North Carolina teams every year, you might as well play the 2 you hate the most. That emotional content breeds interest and it spills over into other sports too.

I'm not talking about your fans. Fan's don't count for **** in the scheme of things. I talking about your big boosters who do business in NC. If McGuire Woods likes it, chances are everyone in NC and VA will like it. Behind the scenes business connections are big between NC and Va. These connections drive the administrations who then drive the AD's, etc. But what do I know, I just worked at VT for a couple of years.

(07-07-2019 10:32 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  If we are talking about series that The ACC hasn’t taken advantage: Va Tech vs. Louisville.

We played 7 times in 13 years between 1979-1992 in the regular season and haven’t played since except for the 2006 Gator Bowl. A game that featured the Marcus Vick stomping of Elvis Dumervil’s leg. That along with Louisville leading the effort to kick VaTech out of The Metro has the makings of a nice rivalry.

Va Tech is Louisville’s closest ACC football playing conference mate. A yearly matchup could quickly become an easy road trip for both fan bases and must see ACC.

I totally agree. Better TV than the current crossover opponents too.

Florida State needs to play Virginia Tech and Georgia Tech more

We don't want to play Tobacco road in football

(07-03-2019 01:40 PM)MegaCard Wrote:  I still see very few issues with the divisonless 3-5-5 format. You just take the top two teams and have them play in the ACC Football Championship game in December. Some of these permanent games may need fixing based on rivals and competition, but at least in this case, every player will play a home and home game with every school in the conference if they are there at least 4 years. Someone on this board suggested this recently, and I apologize for not remembering, but the hat tip goes to you!

Permanent Games:
Clemson: Florida State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest
Syracuse: Louisville, Pittsburgh, BC
Louisville: Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech, Syracuse
Pittsburgh: Syracuse, Louisville, BC
Boston College: Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
NC State: North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest
Duke: North Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest
Wake Forest: NC State, Duke, Clemson
North Carolina: NC State, Duke, Virginia
Virginia: Virginia Tech, Boston College, North Carolina
Virginia Tech: Virginia, Miami, Louisville
Miami: Florida State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech
Florida State: Clemson, Miami, Georgia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami, Florida State

Looks perfect

(07-07-2019 06:27 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  We don't want to play Tobacco road in football

Bad vodka! Mean vodka!

(07-04-2019 05:22 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-03-2019 10:12 PM)esayem Wrote:  Clemson: Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State
Syracuse: Louisville, Pittsburgh, BC
Louisville: Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech, Syracuse
Pittsburgh: Syracuse, Louisville, Miami
Boston College: Syracuse, Miami, Virginia
NC State: North Carolina, Wake Forest, Clemson
Duke: North Carolina, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech
Wake Forest: NC State, Duke, Virginia Tech
North Carolina: NC State, Duke, Virginia
Virginia: Virginia Tech, North Carolina, BC
Virginia Tech: Virginia, Louisville, Wake Forest
Miami: Florida State, Pitt, BC
Florida State: Clemson, Miami, Georgia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Florida State, Duke

I feel like I’ve done this exercise a million times. Most of them are fairly traditional except UVa-BC (a new commonwealth game) and the Louisville games.

step one: swap crossovers between BC/VT and UL/UVa. That gets a good benefit to the scheduling right away. Then, if that goes well, go a little further...

I agree with that. I think Louisville’s annual b-ball opponents should be Virginia Tech (to reinforce that game in both sports) and Notre Dame (this is just about as obvious as it gets, Catholics vs. Cardinals, cmon man!)

That leaves I believe Miami, UVa, Pitt, and Georgia Tech needing opponents? Miami vs. Pitt and UVa vs Georgia Tech make sense. Either that or have ND vs. Pitt, UVa vs. BC, and GaTech vs. Miami.

(07-07-2019 06:38 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-03-2019 01:40 PM)MegaCard Wrote:  I still see very few issues with the divisonless 3-5-5 format. You just take the top two teams and have them play in the ACC Football Championship game in December. Some of these permanent games may need fixing based on rivals and competition, but at least in this case, every player will play a home and home game with every school in the conference if they are there at least 4 years. Someone on this board suggested this recently, and I apologize for not remembering, but the hat tip goes to you!

Permanent Games:
Clemson: Florida State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest
Syracuse: Louisville, Pittsburgh, BC
Louisville: Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech, Syracuse
Pittsburgh: Syracuse, Louisville, BC
Boston College: Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
NC State: North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest
Duke: North Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest
Wake Forest: NC State, Duke, Clemson
North Carolina: NC State, Duke, Virginia
Virginia: Virginia Tech, Boston College, North Carolina
Virginia Tech: Virginia, Miami, Louisville
Miami: Florida State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech
Florida State: Clemson, Miami, Georgia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami, Florida State

Looks perfect

3-5-5 was talked about several years ago. Unfortunately a-hole Delany killed that dream with the vote.

With 14 teams it is the best system out there. It allows you to feel like all 14 members play often enough to feel part of the same league. Cuse joined the Fall of 2013 and just saw UNC for the first time in 2018. That is not right...

(07-08-2019 10:17 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-07-2019 06:38 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-03-2019 01:40 PM)MegaCard Wrote:  I still see very few issues with the divisonless 3-5-5 format. You just take the top two teams and have them play in the ACC Football Championship game in December. Some of these permanent games may need fixing based on rivals and competition, but at least in this case, every player will play a home and home game with every school in the conference if they are there at least 4 years. Someone on this board suggested this recently, and I apologize for not remembering, but the hat tip goes to you!

Permanent Games:
Clemson: Florida State, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest
Syracuse: Louisville, Pittsburgh, BC
Louisville: Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech, Syracuse
Pittsburgh: Syracuse, Louisville, BC
Boston College: Virginia, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
NC State: North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest
Duke: North Carolina, NC State, Wake Forest
Wake Forest: NC State, Duke, Clemson
North Carolina: NC State, Duke, Virginia
Virginia: Virginia Tech, Boston College, North Carolina
Virginia Tech: Virginia, Miami, Louisville
Miami: Florida State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech
Florida State: Clemson, Miami, Georgia Tech
Georgia Tech: Clemson, Miami, Florida State

Looks perfect

3-5-5 was talked about several years ago. Unfortunately a-hole Delany killed that dream with the vote.

With 14 teams it is the best system out there. It allows you to feel like all 14 members play often enough to feel part of the same league. Cuse joined the Fall of 2013 and just saw UNC for the first time in 2018. That is not right...

Yes, 3-5-5 works better than divisions, but what would be best is the type of schedule the SEC and Big Ten implemented before expanding. They just had the teams with the most history/significance always play each other, and everyone else just sort of cycled through. UNC and Duke need four permanent partners while Louisville needs, what, maybe two?

Selecting three sort of balances it out, but it really isn't optimum. Plus MegaCard has some flaws in his partners: the annual Duke and GaTech game isn't going anywhere.

(07-08-2019 11:59 AM)esayem Wrote:  Selecting three sort of balances it out, but it really isn't optimum. Plus MegaCard has some flaws in his partners: the annual Duke and GaTech game isn't going anywhere.

I've read multiple times on here that states or implies that discontinuing the Duke-GT annual game is untouchable or non-negotiable. I understand where people may be getting that because the 2 schools have met on the gridiron every year since the 1930's.

But, having said that, any show stopper type of belief of that series must be coming from the Duke side because I can assure you GT people would drop it in a millisecond if FSU could come onto the schedule annually. And to be bluntly honest, the vast majority of GT fans would drop the Duke series in a heartbeat to replace with our long-time annual series with Auburn if the football gods could ever somehow make it happen. Point being, I think GT fans like the Duke series, but won't lose any sleep over it ending if other more attractive conference border rivals (FSU) or long-time rivals (and border rival, Auburn or Tennessee) could be substituted.

Won't happen, but just saying. And, I still say if GT and FSU want to hook up more frequently then just schedule as an OOC game like UNC and Wake are doing this year. Not a perfect scenario I realize, but one that can accomplish that mission within the current and likely permanent framework. Hopefully, GT AD Todd Stansbury and the Auburn (or Tennessee) AD can get a series worked up in the future. I think as long as Johnson and his funky offense was around it was a no-deal kind of thing for a lot of (SEC) programs to schedule GT - not all of course. No longer an issue.

In my 48 years of following GT FB, I've never once ever heard anybody say "by Buddha, whatever we do we've absolutely got to play Duke every year in football." Again, maybe it's Duke that feels that way. It ain't GT.

(07-08-2019 12:30 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 11:59 AM)esayem Wrote:  Selecting three sort of balances it out, but it really isn't optimum. Plus MegaCard has some flaws in his partners: the annual Duke and GaTech game isn't going anywhere.

I've read multiple times on here that states or implies that discontinuing the Duke-GT annual game is untouchable or non-negotiable. I understand where people may be getting that because the 2 schools have met on the gridiron every year since the 1930's.

But, having said that, any show stopper type of belief of that series must be coming from the Duke side because I can assure you GT people would drop it in a millisecond if FSU could come onto the schedule annually And to be bluntly honest, the vast majority of GT fans would drop the Duke series in a heartbeat to replace with our long-time annual series with Auburn if the football gods could ever somehow make it happen. Point being, I think GT fans like the Duke series, but won't lose any sleep over it ending if other more attractive conference border rivals (FSU) or long-time rivals (and border rival, Auburn or Tennessee) could be substituted.

Won't happen, but just saying. And, I still say if GT and FSU want to hook up more frequently then just schedule as an OOC game like UNC and Wake are doing this year. Not a perfect scenario I realize, but one that can accomplish that mission within the current and likely permanent framework. Hopefully, GT AD Todd Stansbury and the Auburn (or Tennessee) AD can get a series worked up in the future. I think as long as Johnson and his funky offense was around it was a no-deal kind of thing for a lot of (SEC) programs to schedule GT - not all of course. No longer an issue.

In my 48 years of following GT FB, I've never once ever heard anybody say "by Buddha, whatever we do we've absolutely got to play Duke every year in football." Again, maybe it's Duke that feels that way. It ain't GT.

Everybody has an opinion.
Statefan says that Georgia Tech wants no part of playing Florida State on a regular basis.
Both of you can not be 100% accurate.
Evidently there are folks at both Georgia Tech and Duke that have tried very hard over the years to keep their game an annual matchup.
If you can find some links to quotes from administrators saying that either school would like to end the series, please post them now.

(07-08-2019 01:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Everybody has an opinion.
Statefan says that Georgia Tech wants no part of playing Florida State on a regular basis.
Both of you can not be 100% accurate.
Evidently there are folks at both Georgia Tech and Duke that have tried very hard over the years to keep their game an annual matchup.
If you can find some links to quotes from administrators saying that either school would like to end the series, please post them now.

Agree on your first statement.

Statefan is inaccurate on saying GT wants no part of playing FSU on a regular basis. The general consensus of GT fans will advise the biggest disappointment in moving the conference to 12 teams and splitting into divisions was/is the loss of the annual FSU game.

There hasn't been a reason to discontinue the Duke-GT series. When the divisions were set up it continued based on conference formatting.

I'm not saying and never said the school administrators are looking to end the series. What I said is that the fans and supporters aren't looking at it like it is mandatory. Further, again just looking at the supporters, GT folks would drop the series in a heartbeat if given other options that are attractive such as the ones I used as examples. So, while I believe the divisions are just fine as-is and all these permutations of different division alignments are a complete waste of energy even in the offseason, when folks are thinking of them don't set Duke-GT as some kind of mandatory thing that can't go away.

It's a nice series. One that was even in the late 80's, but like most series with Duke fell into a hugely one-sided W-L during the next 2 decades of Duke's misery. Again, it certainly isn't a series that has GT folks saying "we absolutely must assure we face Duke every year". Just not reality. Having said that, I don't think GT folks are in a mindset either that we would drop the Duke series to pick up playing BC or Wake unless there was some other much larger benefit (like facing FSU annually) that came with it. Sorry, but just being honest.

We'd take NC State because we rarely lose in Raleigh (have won 5 straight there going back to 2002) and are 12-3 against the Pack since 1995. (glad the Pack and Jackets get to face one another again in '19...Thursday night in November)

(07-08-2019 01:20 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  

(07-08-2019 01:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  Everybody has an opinion.
Statefan says that Georgia Tech wants no part of playing Florida State on a regular basis.
Both of you can not be 100% accurate.
Evidently there are folks at both Georgia Tech and Duke that have tried very hard over the years to keep their game an annual matchup.
If you can find some links to quotes from administrators saying that either school would like to end the series, please post them now.

Agree on your first statement.

Statefan is inaccurate on saying GT wants no part of playing FSU on a regular basis. The general consensus of GT fans will advise the biggest disappointment in moving the conference to 12 teams and splitting into divisions was/is the loss of the annual FSU game.

There hasn't been a reason to discontinue the Duke-GT series. When the divisions were set up it continued based on conference formatting.

I'm not saying and never said the school administrators are looking to end the series. What I said is that the fans and supporters aren't looking at it like it is mandatory. Further, again just looking at the supporters, GT folks would drop the series in a heartbeat if given other options that are attractive such as the ones I used as examples. So, while I believe the divisions are just fine as-is and all these permutations of different division alignments are a complete waste of energy even in the offseason, when folks are thinking of them don't set Duke-GT as some kind of mandatory thing that can't go away.

It's a nice series. One that was even in the late 80's, but like most series with Duke fell into a hugely one-sided W-L during the next 2 decades of Duke's misery. Again, it certainly isn't a series that has GT folks saying "we absolutely must assure we face Duke every year". Just not reality. Having said that, I don't think GT folks are in a mindset either that we would drop the Duke series to pick up playing BC or Wake unless there was some other much larger benefit (like facing FSU annually) that came with it. Sorry, but just being honest.

We'd take NC State because we rarely lose in Raleigh (have won 5 straight there going back to 2002) and are 12-3 against the Pack since 1995. (glad the Pack and Jackets get to face one another again in '19...Thursday night in November)

A lot of this depends on who you ask and how old they are. Old GT fans probably do want to keep the Duke series going. Younger Jackets may prefer FSU.