(01-04-2016 04:15 PM)stever20 Wrote:  before folks ask- well other teams play schedules like what BYU does, and they finish 11-1, the difference is- those other teams don't play 6-7 games tough at the start of the season. It's spread out thru out the season.

We got that the first time you said it. Stil not convinced it makes all that much difference. BYU just doesn't have enough talent.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

(01-04-2016 06:08 PM)f1do Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 05:28 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Any best of the rest conference is still a G5 conference and just might as well join the MW, AAC or CUSA. We are not going to blow up
BYU went Indy when everything was changing and didn't bother to look ahead at the changes coming and went Indy because of Utah going to the PAC -12.

That certainly is one factor since they would now be competing for recruits against their rival as a G5 team while they are a P5 team. conference at this level to form any best of the rest.
But the real world is rarely that simple. There were plenty of issues going on between the MWC, BYU, and the Comcast TV agreement--not to mention that BYUtv was at a point to where it had the facilities and the reach to pick up the BYU broadcasts as a 3rd tier carrier as well as rebroadcast games to greatly increase their exposure to their fans outside of the intermountain west. Plus the independent route was deemed a step in the direction that could allow for eventual addition to a P5 conference should that opportunity arise since there would be no Grant of Rights or other thing to tie the school in place where they didn't want to be. This could go on and on and has on many occasions. But needless to say it isn't as simple as you pitched it. :)

No it really is. If Utah was still in the MW so would BYU. BYU didn't move out of the MW the day after Utah went to the Pac12 for nothing. Ego made BYU go Indy and ego will keep BYU Indy till they decided to drop football.

(01-04-2016 06:12 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 06:08 PM)f1do Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 05:28 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Any best of the rest conference is still a G5 conference and just might as well join the MW, AAC or CUSA. We are not going to blow up
BYU went Indy when everything was changing and didn't bother to look ahead at the changes coming and went Indy because of Utah going to the PAC -12.

That certainly is one factor since they would now be competing for recruits against their rival as a G5 team while they are a P5 team. conference at this level to form any best of the rest.
But the real world is rarely that simple. There were plenty of issues going on between the MWC, BYU, and the Comcast TV agreement--not to mention that BYUtv was at a point to where it had the facilities and the reach to pick up the BYU broadcasts as a 3rd tier carrier as well as rebroadcast games to greatly increase their exposure to their fans outside of the intermountain west. Plus the independent route was deemed a step in the direction that could allow for eventual addition to a P5 conference should that opportunity arise since there would be no Grant of Rights or other thing to tie the school in place where they didn't want to be. This could go on and on and has on many occasions. But needless to say it isn't as simple as you pitched it. :)

No it really is. If Utah was still in the MW so would BYU. BYU didn't move out of the MW the day after Utah went to the Pac12 for nothing. Ego made BYU go Indy and ego will keep BYU Indy till they decided to drop football.

I would categorize it as the straw that broke the camel's back rather than the singular action. But feel free to disagree.

I used to be of the opinion that BYU/Boise football-only to the Big XII makes the most sense. Houston has really impressed me recently, and not just on the field. I believe BYU/Houston to the Big XII is a better option. Maybe BYU for football-only, but Houston all-in.

UConn and Cincinnati are the next best options.

I agree that BYU should absolutely join a G5 conference if the primary and ultimate goal is an easier path to the Fiesta and Cotton Bowls.

But, I disagree that such is BYU's primary and ultimate goal.

BYU is after fan access and exposure. BYU has played nearly all of its football games for the past 4 seasons on one of the ABC/ESPN channels or BYUtv (mostly FCS opponents here, except BYU opted to play Fresno St. on BYUtv at 2pm MT rather than to play at 9pm MT on ESPNU....). The exceptions are two Notre Dame games on NBC, a couple of PAC games on FS1, a couple of games on PAC and SEC networks, and a handful of Mountain West road games on CBSSN.

It's those games on CBSSN that will continue to influence BYU to stay far away from the MWC.

And, as far as the G5 Access bid, would BYU really have played in an NY6/BCS bowl during any of the last 4 seasons? Doubtful.

BYU will take national broadcast games against good opponents over the *chance* at the NY6 bowl every day of the week except Sunday.

With that said, I'm a strong proponent for BYU to the AAC - as part of a western division with Boise St., SDSU, and Air Force...

(01-04-2016 05:27 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I personally don't see the big negative in them joining the AAC. Next year for example they play five G5 teams, a FCS team, and six P5 teams. I don't see why playing 8 AAC teams and playing four P5 teams would be a bad deal.

Arizona
Utah
UCLA
Miss State

Houston
East Carolina
Navy
Tulsa
Memphis
SMU
Tulane
UCF

If they went undefeated with this schedule they would be in a NY6 bowl or playoff.

The AAC schedule would be even better, because it would likely involve more western division members. Something like this:

2017
LSU (in Houston)
Utah
Wisconsin
@Mississippi St.
@Hawaii (13th game)

@ECU
UCF
@Navy
SMU
@Tulane
Air Force
@SDSU
Boise St.

(01-04-2016 03:33 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 03:03 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  From a Utah newspaper.

http://www.standard.net/frontpage/2016/0...longs.html

The newspaper has a UofU/USU slant, both of which would love to see BYU step down to the MWC. Thus, while it reflects on the interest of Aggie and Ute fans, it doesn't deal with reality. Any mention in the article on how much it would be to buy out already scheduled games? How about the reduced TV money? Any mention about forming a "best of the rest" football conference?

BYU should have gone independent 30 years ago. We would be in a P5 conference now if we had. In trying to build up the WAC and then the MWC we simply sealed our own fate, and missed out on a great deal of revenue. By going independent, we can be better judged on our own merits, and there are very few teams that have averaged 60K in football and 16K in basketball over the last 30 years.

On the flip side, a SLC radio personality who is rather anti-BYU mentioned that the Big 12 is negotiating with BYU. Not sure if he really has any sources though - once bitten, twice shy.

lol....well, its sure clear the writer isn't a Houston alumni. He definitely didn't think much of my Coogs.

I actually can see both sides of this debate. Through independence, BYU actually gets a schedule that looks a lot more like a P5 schedule (though more of those P5 tilts are away games than home games). Still, lots of attractive opponents on tap over the next several years. Sweep that kind of schedule and making the college playoff is a definite possibility. The schedule BYU has in independence feels very P5-ish. That said, a couple of slip ups, and you're not going to a major bowl, you're just playing out the string leading to a date in the newly formed Bubble Gum Bowl in Toledo against a random rotating G5 squad.

On the other hand, its much easier path to a NYD bowl from a G5 conference. Simply win the Mountain West or AAC. Winning either one with some style points probably gives BYU an excellent path to a major NYD bowl. The down side? The schedules will be less flashy and have a decidedly G5 feel.

If I was BYU, Id bite the bullet. Id make the most Boise like deal I could make with a G5 conference. I'd insist on a 8 game conference schedule. I'd continue to schedule 3-4 P5 games every year for my fans. Win the AAC or MW, win your P5 games, and I think BYU might could still slip into the playoff. If you don't, well---its not like playing in the Fiesta Bowl on NYD sucks. But, I get it. I can still completely see why they might opt to stay indy. The best option would be for BYU to create their own 8 team conference. They could hand pick the teams they want to play annually. With just 8, they would still have 5 free games to schedule whoever they want to improve their schedule (makes a playoff quality SOS possible)----plus, they would still have the access bowl slot as a fallback option if they drop a tough OOC game or two.

(01-04-2016 06:16 PM)f1do Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 06:12 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 06:08 PM)f1do Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 05:28 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Any best of the rest conference is still a G5 conference and just might as well join the MW, AAC or CUSA. We are not going to blow up
BYU went Indy when everything was changing and didn't bother to look ahead at the changes coming and went Indy because of Utah going to the PAC -12.

That certainly is one factor since they would now be competing for recruits against their rival as a G5 team while they are a P5 team. conference at this level to form any best of the rest.
But the real world is rarely that simple. There were plenty of issues going on between the MWC, BYU, and the Comcast TV agreement--not to mention that BYUtv was at a point to where it had the facilities and the reach to pick up the BYU broadcasts as a 3rd tier carrier as well as rebroadcast games to greatly increase their exposure to their fans outside of the intermountain west. Plus the independent route was deemed a step in the direction that could allow for eventual addition to a P5 conference should that opportunity arise since there would be no Grant of Rights or other thing to tie the school in place where they didn't want to be. This could go on and on and has on many occasions. But needless to say it isn't as simple as you pitched it. :)

No it really is. If Utah was still in the MW so would BYU. BYU didn't move out of the MW the day after Utah went to the Pac12 for nothing. Ego made BYU go Indy and ego will keep BYU Indy till they decided to drop football.

I would categorize it as the straw that broke the camel's back rather than the singular action. But feel free to disagree.

P5 status wouldn't make much difference to BYU recruiting. Magic underpants aren't a big sell to many HS athletes.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

(01-04-2016 06:59 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  P5 status wouldn't make much difference to BYU recruiting. Magic underpants aren't a big sell to many HS athletes.

You're selling short the magic underpants....

(01-04-2016 05:25 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  BYU made the big error of thinking TV and the P5 would treat them like Notre Dame. They overestimated themselves and now are stuck.

What P5 invite did they turn down, so that they are now stuck? I am sure if they wanted to be in the MWC or AAC they would be accepted.

I don't think that is what he is saying. He is reeferring to how P5 teams schedule ND on an equal basis any time of the year, and BYU sometimes has to play 2 for 1's, and always pre-conference.

Could the AAC and MWC merge to create a super mega conference? Each time zone schools could have their own TV contracts. They could take the best of the other G5 and FCS schools to form a coast to coast conference.

West Coast:
Boise State
Eastern Washington (Spokane Market)
Portland State
UNR
UNLV
San Jose State
Fresno State
San Diego State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona (Phoenix tv market)

Rocky Mountain:
Wyoming
Montana
Montana State
Colorado State
Air Force
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP
West Texas A&M
Colorado State-Pueblo (D2, but still a best team.)

Central Time Zone:
Wichita State
Houston
SMU
North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota
South Dakota State
UTSA
Tulsa
Arkansas State
North Iowa
Missouri State
Tulane

East Coast Time Zone:
Navy
Cincinnati
Temple
UCF
USF
East Carolina
UConn
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Southern Mississippi
U. Mass.
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
James Madison
Delaware
Richmond
Towson
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee State

Sadly, the most TV markets are in Texas or on the east coast which makes a true super mega conferences lopsided.

SAAC could be call. Super American Athletic Conference. You get the best of football, basketball and baseball.

(01-04-2016 08:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Could the AAC and MWC merge to create a super mega conference? Each time zone schools could have their own TV contracts. They could take the best of the other G5 and FCS schools to form a coast to coast conference.

West Coast:
Boise State
Eastern Washington (Spokane Market)
Portland State
UNR
UNLV
San Jose State
Fresno State
San Diego State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona (Phoenix tv market)

Rocky Mountain:
Wyoming
Montana
Montana State
Colorado State
Air Force
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP
West Texas A&M
Colorado State-Pueblo (D2, but still a best team.)

Central Time Zone:
Wichita State
Houston
SMU
North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota
South Dakota State
UTSA
Tulsa
Arkansas State
North Iowa
Missouri State
Tulane

East Coast Time Zone:
Navy
Cincinnati
Temple
UCF
USF
East Carolina
UConn
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Southern Mississippi
U. Mass.
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
James Madison
Delaware
Richmond
Towson
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee State

Sadly, the most TV markets are in Texas or on the east coast which makes a true super mega conferences lopsided.

SAAC could be call. Super American Athletic Conference. You get the best of football, basketball and baseball.

You get a pat in the back from me for being creative, DavidSt.

I know this will never come to pass but if for some wild reason it did, I hope Houston is never part of anything like this mess. Yikes

Looking at BYU schedules I am not seeing it being that great. On top of the timing of the games it really is not that great in general compared to what they could have.

Some are saying it is better but I am not seeing it. It seems to me that BYU is doing about 4 P5 games with the rest being G5. If the MWC were to use a 8 game schedule BYU could choose to have essentially the same schedule. Does it make much of a difference to play a MAC or CUSA school over additional MWC schools. It really is not that different. The difference is that before BYU could choose to have 4 P5 schools on the schedule but did not do so (probably because it did not make as much sense in terms of money or in getting more wins).

BYU did not have trouble getting P5 schools to come to BYU so I am not seeing that as a benefit of independence either.

As far as I can tell independence is almost completely to salve BYU's ego (and/or fans ego). They cannot be in a G5 conference so long as Utah is in a P5. Independence is used to make themselves fell like they are in a better situation (when honestly mostly the same).

For BYU it is probably worth it since the ego of the school plus fans expectations of being better than Utah is probably worth more than the trouble of independence and lack of access bowl bowl costs them. For most schools though I would say this would not be worth it even if they could make it work.

To the point about scheduling, UMass will play 12 straight games in 2017 with no bye:

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-17/2017-...hedule.php

UMass and BYU could move their game against each other to December (conference championship weekend), but that has its own issues. BYU's bye is actually in Week 4 for the 2017 season.

(01-04-2016 08:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Could the AAC and MWC merge to create a super mega conference? Each time zone schools could have their own TV contracts. They could take the best of the other G5 and FCS schools to form a coast to coast conference.

West Coast:
Boise State
Eastern Washington (Spokane Market)
Portland State
UNR
UNLV
San Jose State
Fresno State
San Diego State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona (Phoenix tv market)

Rocky Mountain:
Wyoming
Montana
Montana State
Colorado State
Air Force
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP
West Texas A&M
Colorado State-Pueblo (D2, but still a best team.)

Central Time Zone:
Wichita State
Houston
SMU
North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota
South Dakota State
UTSA
Tulsa
Arkansas State
North Iowa
Missouri State
Tulane

East Coast Time Zone:
Navy
Cincinnati
Temple
UCF
USF
East Carolina
UConn
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Southern Mississippi
U. Mass.
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
James Madison
Delaware
Richmond
Towson
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee State

Sadly, the most TV markets are in Texas or on the east coast which makes a true super mega conferences lopsided.

SAAC could be call. Super American Athletic Conference. You get the best of football, basketball and baseball.

Thank god you left memphis out

They should have joined the American in Olympic sports and helped in getting a western division while the league was at 10 schools. They could have have a Notre Dame like scheduling deal with the AAC.

(01-04-2016 03:43 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Cab Driver: Where to?

BYU: Anywhere!

I was just about to break in with a joke about how BYU shouldn't leave Independence because the LDS Church has a major presence there (as in Independence, Missouri).

(01-04-2016 08:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Could the AAC and MWC merge to create a super mega conference? Each time zone schools could have their own TV contracts. They could take the best of the other G5 and FCS schools to form a coast to coast conference.

West Coast:
Boise State
Eastern Washington (Spokane Market)
Portland State
UNR
UNLV
San Jose State
Fresno State
San Diego State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona (Phoenix tv market)

Rocky Mountain:
Wyoming
Montana
Montana State
Colorado State
Air Force
New Mexico
New Mexico State
UTEP
West Texas A&M
Colorado State-Pueblo (D2, but still a best team.)

Central Time Zone:
Wichita State
Houston
SMU
North Dakota State
North Dakota
South Dakota
South Dakota State
UTSA
Tulsa
Arkansas State
North Iowa
Missouri State
Tulane

East Coast Time Zone:
Navy
Cincinnati
Temple
UCF
USF
East Carolina
UConn
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Southern Mississippi
U. Mass.
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
James Madison
Delaware
Richmond
Towson
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee State

Sadly, the most TV markets are in Texas or on the east coast which makes a true super mega conferences lopsided.

SAAC could be call. Super American Athletic Conference. You get the best of football, basketball and baseball.

Throwing Memphis to the Curb ? They will have a search party looking for You

As of today, BYU has 0 options to make things better. They would take a large hit $$$ wise to give up inde status.

(01-04-2016 03:33 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 03:03 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  From a Utah newspaper.

http://www.standard.net/frontpage/2016/0...longs.html

The newspaper has a UofU/USU slant, both of which would love to see BYU step down to the MWC. Thus, while it reflects on the interest of Aggie and Ute fans, it doesn't deal with reality. Any mention in the article on how much it would be to buy out already scheduled games? How about the reduced TV money? Any mention about forming a "best of the rest" football conference?

BYU should have gone independent 30 years ago. We would be in a P5 conference now if we had. In trying to build up the WAC and then the MWC we simply sealed our own fate, and missed out on a great deal of revenue. By going independent, we can be better judged on our own merits, and there are very few teams that have averaged 60K in football and 16K in basketball over the last 30 years.

On the flip side, a SLC radio personality who is rather anti-BYU mentioned that the Big 12 is negotiating with BYU. Not sure if he really has any sources though - once bitten, twice shy.

I hope that BYU can stay independent and I hope that ND plays BYU on a regular basis.