(06-24-2019 07:21 PM)illiniowl Wrote: (06-24-2019 05:29 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (06-24-2019 05:23 PM)illiniowl Wrote: (06-24-2019 11:37 AM)Middle Ages Wrote: Where did he say we didn't need to improve our program? We need OUT. Yes- we 100% need an improved program- but we also need to be looking at all options to get out. I'm with Illiniowl
It seems highly likely to me that if Rice organized an airport meeting between the presidents/ADs of Army, UConn, UMass, NMSU, BYU & Liberty, there would be plenty of interest in mutual home-and-home deals. All these schools would be in the same boat of needing to fill 12 dates a year. They don't have the luxury of being all that picky. It would be to everybody's mutual advantage to fill up about half their schedules from this group, and then the other half according to what the individual school wants.
Bloomgren appears to be doing a really good job recruiting to even the dead-end conference situation we're in . . . well, what if instead of having to recruit to future schedules of 3 name opponents and 9 nobodies, we gave him future schedules of 8 name opponents and 4 nobodies? You think he might be able to recruit at an even higher level then? Plus, more meaningful games/opponents = more interest from Rice students, alumni and fans. Better recruits + more support = more wins and more quality wins. More quality wins + more support = eventual interest from a top conference. I've always looked at independence as a means to get back to the P5, not as an end in itself.
I also think it's a more viable path than trying to turn heads just by whatever we can accomplish in CUSA. We can't even turn our own folks' heads toward CUSA games, win or lose, and without the Rice community buying in to the concept that CUSA games are important, which they never will, we will never see lasting success in CUSA.
Viable for what? And, again, going independent in football puts all our other men's and women's sports in jeopardy. I also think the viability of being able to complete a 12-game schedule as an independent, with at least 5 home games, is very wishful thinking. It's never going to happen. It would also eliminate any local, let alone national, TV coverage.
Well, wrong, wrong, and wrong. The rest of our sports would be "in jeopardy" of what . . . being affiliated with a minor conference? With some far-flung travel? What is our current situation again, remind me? Or do you mean Rice would be "in jeopardy" of not being able to find any conference at all? Well, quite obviously we wouldn't go independent in the first place if we didn't already do our due diligence and line up a conference solution(s) for the rest of our sports first. And since 100% of independents have managed to do this successfully -- unless you can name me the football independent that had to ax all its non-football sports for want of a conference landing spot -- Rice would, too. Please also name me the independent that had to cancel football because it literally could not schedule 12 games, with at least 5 home games. Wow, by some miracle it's always managed to happen, and now that there is a critical mass of independents, scheduling is only getting easier. And finally, any road games we play against conference-affiliated schools would be televised (per those conferences' contracts) just as they are now, any home games against "name" schools would easily be marketable (and we wouldn't have to share that revenue with 13 other schools), and as for the less-glamorous home games, I'd be surprised if we (or the independents acting in concert) couldn't at the very least make a deal with ESPN+/Stadium/Facebook . . . which, of course, is where most of them are now anyway. So no real downgrade there.
Honestly, if you're so content with CUSA as a great place for the rest of our sports, you might as well advocate for dropping football and plowing that money into those other sports (the University of Denver approach). Frankly I see that as the next best option to going independent -- if we can have nationally ranked WBB, VB, etc. programs despite being in CUSA, we can do the same from some other nondescript conference, too -- and even better with football's resources redistributed. The point is, if the idea is to make football a great rising tide that lifts our other sports' boats -- which is pretty much the model at most schools, and it certainly can work -- well, that can't be done *at Rice* *from CUSA*. Rice people have voted with their feet and their pocketbooks on CUSA football. It is time to call time of death on that project and move on to a different approach. Either we start playing lots more schools Rice folks care about, which can only be done with independence, or we stop throwing good money after bad into a futile project and put that money towards being a power in Olympic sports.
At this poitn, with they way things are today, not the way they used to be in the SWC, the WAC or even in CUSA v2.0, Iliiniowl's points are sounding bettter than they would have even 5 years ago.
McKinsey report was a lifetime ago now, and so much has changed...and will change again in the next big realignment opportunity coming up in just a few more years.
Rice's problems in football, which I definitely want as a D-I sport at the school, when they started have always been about the school's (read: admin's) commitment and the financing that follows from that to truly compete not in a token way.
I think Illiowl's more right than wrong here, today, not a few years ago.
1. There are enough indy schools now to put a schedule together.
2. Rice can and does get better OOC contracts than many or most other G5 schools--we still have the stadium to handle larger crowds, though we do need to upgrade bathrooms and concessions yesterday 9and pressbox) And there's always NRG if we have to (and we have had to more often than not), but we still make money from those games, which is outr biggest problem.
3. Everyone laughs at Liberty, okay, but they'd bring more visiting t-shirt fans than many non-Texas CUSA schools
4. Bowl games don't matter too much when they are who-cares bowls against only G5 teams that don't move the needle even if we win them. The only Bowl game that matters that we can get to at the moment is the Access Bowl game. Sure, it's a tough climb from where we are, but at least the reward is there--and the recruiting angle is stronger I believe than saying "we're hoping to make the who-cares bowl on Dec 17th at least two of your four years here."
5. Illini has a point about finding other sports conference affiliation- every other indy has done it, so why is it so certain we cannot?
We need something to jump-start our program. To the thread title: "Transformation vs. Incrementalism", and why I keep bringing it up--all this incremental stuff has not moved the needle while everyone else keeps leaving us further behind. We need some speed (I agree with the recent recruiting to that effect) to catch up a bit.
With virtually zero revenue from CUSA and a boatload of issues about the affiliation for our school, why not seriously look into and give Indy a shot? What's the worst that can happen versus what is going on now? (really, I'll be interested in reading the scenarios).
Basketball for Rice right now needs to win whatever conference it is in to get to the tourney. That will not change. So it's a slightly less prestigious conference? So we win it and get to the dance finally--how does that hurt us?
Women's BB will not suffer from the same scenario--it will probably make it easier to recruit a guarantee to get to the dance more often than in CUSA.
Baseball isn't the same as under WG, so no harm there either. The rest of the sports--makes no difference to them, really.
The one thing, the only thing we'd need is for the admin and/or BOT to take the reigns off the financing: either/and/or/ let sports get corporate sponsoring like virtually all other modern schools do, give a short-term direct boost/injection onto the programs and let the AD/command the AD to go out and get more via a capital campaign, etc... IF TG could raise enough to get a new Truk and get rid of the splintered seats , clean the stadium, paint the sine waves (which I miss) get a scoreboard and field turf, then couldn't someone who was actually competent and dedicated to Rice accomplish a lot more?
It's worth a serious try.
RE: Transformation vs Incrementalism 
