(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

Exactly---this the AAC's timid small time leadership is the biggest long term challenge faced by the AAC schools. We could become a top 3 basketball conference by simply adding VCU and Wichita. That costs about 80K a school (even less if ESPN is willing to adjust the TV contract slightly). Every AAC school president should chomping at the bit to make this conference a top 3 league in a revenue producing sport. The commissioner should be pushing this agenda. Its a no brainer. Instead--this isnt even on the radar. We are more concerned about a logo and the location of a basketball tournmant---neither of these decisions will make one bit of difference in the long term future of the confernece. On the other hand, making the AAC a top 3 basketball conference would make a HUGE difference in the AAC's future.

ACC: Still doomed.

(04-29-2013 09:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:07 AM)Maize Wrote:  And with the GoR done he also said their our now more opportunities in regards to TV-(Network $$$$) that was not possible before with their partnership with ESPN. Just my guess...the ACC once the network get up and running will be making a lot of $$$...which explains why FSU, Clemson, NC State etc.etc where on board...they saw the numbers from the World Wide Leader.

My disagreement with you (and Swofford) about the size of the ACC footprint aside, I bet the main reason that Clemson and FSU decided to sign the GoR was that they realized that an SEC invitation was not forthcoming. In fact, the FSU President Barron said as much in a Tallahassee Democrat article from April 26 explaining FSU's decision to sign the GoR:

"While it’s difficult to confirm how far those talks advanced, FSU officials came away with the understanding that the SEC saw little financial incentive to adding the Seminoles. Bringing on FSU would neither expand television markets nor open recruiting territories."

“If you go look at all the realignments that have occurred, with maybe one exception, (they have) been to add a new state – a new territory,” Barron said. “You look at what the SEC did; they go for Missouri and Texas. You look at the Big Ten; they hit Nebraska first, then Maryland and Rutgers in the New Jersey/New York market. So basically, they added contiguous real estate.”

I have tried to explain to FSU fans desperate to exit the ACC and join the SEC (by far the majority of Seminoles fans, btw) that the SEC did not want them, and they refused to believe it. But it is true.

The Big 12 wanted/wants FSU very badly, but FSU and the other ACC schools had little desire to join a conference located in the Great Plains.

FSU was allegedly courted by the Big Ten. But, what happened there?

(04-29-2013 09:43 AM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:35 AM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:29 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:07 AM)Maize Wrote:  And with the GoR done he also said their our now more opportunities in regards to TV-(Network $$$$) that was not possible before with their partnership with ESPN. Just my guess...the ACC once the network get up and running will be making a lot of $$$...which explains why FSU, Clemson, NC State etc.etc are on board with this...they saw the numbers from the World Wide Leader.

Also in ACC Division Lineup News...Louisville is going to take over Maryland slot & schedule starting in 2014.

Wait, how are they going to set up a network when ESPN owns all of their rights? ESPN would have to agree to give you guys BACK inventory while paying you the same and allowing you to become a competitor against their own channels. This makes zero sense. The other leagues didn't have full exclusive contracts so it was able to be worked out. ESPN owns EVERYTHING the ACC could put on air already. Why would they agree to this?

There is giant difference between footprints and great tv markets.Also being totally contolled by espn is quite different then having joint broadcasters.

Right. How many people outside of NC and VA are going to "demand" this channel? People outside the region want to see UNC and Duke basketball and FSU football, plus a few other brands if they are really, really good that year. There are a ton of cable channels that have national broadcasting but make very little. The bottom line is what providers will pay for rights to broadcast, and I don't see the ACC cashing in like the BIG or SEC.

I will to be able to watch ND stuff. My bet is that a lot of ND fans across the country will do likewise.

(04-29-2013 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow.

IMO, you omit a big (3), which is that the agreement with Notre Dame boosted their cash flow (which ALWAYS matters to administrators. Always) up enough so that (1) and (2) could be implemented.

If the ACC's money was still stuck down at around $17 million, it would have been difficult if not impossible to get schools outside of NC and VA to sign a GoR.

I agree that ND "saved" the ACC by its partial membership.

That must really piss off Jim Delany. :)

(04-29-2013 09:50 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:46 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:32 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I agree with the geographic divisions.

North-
BC
Cuse
Pitt
UofL
UVA
VT
NC St (One of the NC schools would need to go north and for competitive balance it's the Wolfpack)

South-
FSU
Miami
GT
Clemson
UNC
Duke
Wake

Miami goes north.

North------------South
Boston College----Wake Forest
Louisville----------Clemson
Miami-------------Florida State
Pitt---------------NC State
Syracuse----------Duke
Virginia------------North Carolina
Virginia Tech-------Georgia Tech

That could work too. Geographic divisions are the only way to go. I have no idea who is in which division right now.

You have to avoid having Duke and Wake in the same division due to their historic ineptitude.

(04-29-2013 09:22 AM)bullet Wrote:  [FSU didn't want to join in 1990 or 2011. I think they probably would have gotten in over Missouri when the SEC was anxiously looking for a good #14. But adding value as #15 or #16 is a bigger hurdle.

I thought that FSU wanted in but Florida rallied support amongst GA, SC and KY to keep a 2nd state school out.

FSU can't get into the SEC because they do not bring a new market. That's what conference realignment is all about...footprints. That's why the ACC was being looked at as valuable property because of the huge markets where they have a presence.

(04-29-2013 11:13 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:50 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:46 AM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:32 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I agree with the geographic divisions.

North-
BC
Cuse
Pitt
UofL
UVA
VT
NC St (One of the NC schools would need to go north and for competitive balance it's the Wolfpack)

South-
FSU
Miami
GT
Clemson
UNC
Duke
Wake

Miami goes north.

North------------South
Boston College----Wake Forest
Louisville----------Clemson
Miami-------------Florida State
Pitt---------------NC State
Syracuse----------Duke
Virginia------------North Carolina
Virginia Tech-------Georgia Tech

That could work too. Geographic divisions are the only way to go. I have no idea who is in which division right now.

You have to avoid having Duke and Wake in the same division due to their historic ineptitude.

As the B1G has realized, with a geographic split you don't need or want protected crossovers.

(04-29-2013 11:13 AM)westwolf Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:22 AM)bullet Wrote:  [FSU didn't want to join in 1990 or 2011. I think they probably would have gotten in over Missouri when the SEC was anxiously looking for a good #14. But adding value as #15 or #16 is a bigger hurdle.

I thought that FSU wanted in but Florida rallied support amongst GA, SC and KY to keep a 2nd state school out.

FSU just chose the ACC in 1990. I remember one of the main reasons was to upgrade their BB program, while upgrading ACC FB. I think the SEC might have a little lingering grudge.

(04-29-2013 09:53 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  2) folks will always clamour for the ACC to adopt a N/S division alignment, despite the fact that the ADs don't want it.

Why don't the ACC ADs want geographic football divisions?

Because everyone wants a game in Florida and balanced divisions.

(04-29-2013 11:30 AM)krux Wrote:  Because everyone wants a game in Florida and balanced divisions.

If you put Miami in the north division, then you have a Florida team in each division. You would still have the issue of having to "protect" annual games between Miami-FSU and UVa-UNC.

The only way to avoid the fixed crossover games is to have a inner/outer alignment...

Inner: UNC/NCSU/Duke/Wake/L'ville/VT/UVa
Outer: Miami/FSU/GT/Clem/Pitt/Cuse/BC

One alternative in that format: Louisville and Clemson could be switched.

Miami in the North isn't geographic though.

ACC is better served having competitive balance. It can ill afford to have a joke of a conference championship game.

(04-29-2013 11:30 AM)krux Wrote:  Because everyone wants a game in Florida and balanced divisions.

Krux... are you implying that the Southern schools are better than the Northern Schools?

North------------South
Boston College----Wake Forest
Louisville----------Clemson
Miami-------------Florida State
Pitt---------------NC State
Syracuse----------Duke
Virginia------------North Carolina
Virginia Tech-------Georgia Tech

This is the one, but rumors are that at least one has said no and one has not said yes.

(04-29-2013 11:57 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 11:30 AM)krux Wrote:  Because everyone wants a game in Florida and balanced divisions.

Krux... are you implying that the Southern schools are better than the Northern Schools?

Was that ever in doubt? lol

(04-29-2013 09:45 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

the B1G was never a option for UNC period. anybody that knows & understands the way UNC operates knows this.

I know you want to believe UNC is above the fray . . . but the Tobacco Road schools would have had no choice if the Big XII could have acted boldly before the GORs to take four ACC schools, including likely Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville . . . and anyone who understands the way UNC operates knows this; they wouldn't have liked it one bit, but UNC and Georgia Tech/Virginia would have been BIG bound and cashed their $40-50 million a year with regrets . . .

(04-29-2013 12:22 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:45 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

the B1G was never a option for UNC period. anybody that knows & understands the way UNC operates knows this.

I know you want to believe UNC is above the fray . . . but the Tobacco Road schools would have had no choice if the Big XII could have acted boldly before the GORs to take four ACC schools, including likely Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville . . . and anyone who understands the way UNC operates knows this; they wouldn't have liked it one bit, but UNC and Georgia Tech/Virginia would have been BIG bound and cashed their $40-50 million a year with regrets . . .

the problem is they never had a legitimate shot at those schools, so yes the B1G was never on the radar.