(04-29-2013 11:06 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow.

IMO, you omit a big (3), which is that the agreement with Notre Dame boosted their cash flow (which ALWAYS matters to administrators. Always) up enough so that (1) and (2) could be implemented.

If the ACC's money was still stuck down at around $17 million, it would have been difficult if not impossible to get schools outside of NC and VA to sign a GoR.

I agree that ND "saved" the ACC by its partial membership.

That must really piss off Jim Delany. :)

ND saved ND.
They got a great deal from the ACC.
The financial value to the ACC is minimal.

The biggest problem with attempting to realign the divisions with Maryland in the conference was that Virginia had to be accounted for in that:

a) UVA gets an annual FB game with UNC
b) UVA gets an annual FB game with Maryland, and
c) UVA gets an annual FB game with Virginia Tech (likely by state mandate)

Had any attempt been made to swap Maryland with Virginia Tech, Virginia loses one of its 3 annual games (Maryland).

It could have worked with a Maryland / GT swap...

However, moving Maryland out of the Atlantic would have resulted in the disruption of the most underrated and heated FB rivalry in the conference -- Maryland/NC State (the schools and fans LOVED that game, so that needed to be protected).

Now, with Maryland out of the picture, we can (and will) keep the zipper pattern.

While I take the ADs at their word that they are not interested in re-adjusting, but rather just plugging Louisville in Maryland's spot, if they ever want to re-visit, and maintain their core principles, this could work:

Coastal / Atlantic cross-rival

Duke / Wake Forest
Louisville / Georgia Tech
Miami / FSU
North Carolina / NC State
Pitt / Syracuse
Virginia / Clemson
Virginia Tech / BC

With the only possible complaints coming from VT (in regards to playing BC) and UNC (losing its exposure to the city of Atlanta).

Just say "no" to a N/S alignment. Too many egos to make it work.

(04-29-2013 12:27 PM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:22 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:45 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

the B1G was never a option for UNC period. anybody that knows & understands the way UNC operates knows this.

I know you want to believe UNC is above the fray . . . but the Tobacco Road schools would have had no choice if the Big XII could have acted boldly before the GORs to take four ACC schools, including likely Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville . . . and anyone who understands the way UNC operates knows this; they wouldn't have liked it one bit, but UNC and Georgia Tech/Virginia would have been BIG bound and cashed their $40-50 million a year with regrets . . .

the problem is they never had a legitimate shot at those schools, so yes the B1G was never on the radar.

Yeah the Big 12 never had a shot at anyone unless the Big 10/SEC were allowed to roam free. The problem is none of the southern schools wanted in the Big 10 so here we are....

(04-29-2013 12:28 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 11:06 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow.

IMO, you omit a big (3), which is that the agreement with Notre Dame boosted their cash flow (which ALWAYS matters to administrators. Always) up enough so that (1) and (2) could be implemented.

If the ACC's money was still stuck down at around $17 million, it would have been difficult if not impossible to get schools outside of NC and VA to sign a GoR.

I agree that ND "saved" the ACC by its partial membership.

That must really piss off Jim Delany. :)

ND saved ND.
They got a great deal from the ACC.
The financial value to the ACC is minimal.

And yet, you want UConn in the league with that "minimal financial value"... right.

UVA and VT have more alumni in NC and UNC, NCSU, Wake, and Duke have more alumni in VA than FSU does in GA.

VT and UVA are closer to all of the NC schools than FSU is to GT. The Duke/VT series is the only series between the VA and NC schools that is shorter than the FSU/GT series.

The ACC isn't going to "geographic" divisions anytime soon.

What is the problem with the direction they're going now by placing Louisville in Maryland's spot? So you have a couple of heavyweights like Clem/FSU..Louisville is on that next tier then NCSU after that. Wake, BC, and Syracuse bring up the bottom. On the coastal side the heavyweights are VT/Miami with GT/UNC next then UVA/Pitt with Duke bringing up the rear. There's more depth on the coastal side than atlantic.

(04-29-2013 12:22 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:45 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

the B1G was never a option for UNC period. anybody that knows & understands the way UNC operates knows this.

I know you want to believe UNC is above the fray . . . but the Tobacco Road schools would have had no choice if the Big XII could have acted boldly before the GORs to take four ACC schools, including likely Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville . . . and anyone who understands the way UNC operates knows this; they wouldn't have liked it one bit, but UNC and Georgia Tech/Virginia would have been BIG bound and cashed their $40-50 million a year with regrets . . .

There is nothing the Big 12 could have done to get an ACC school. No ACC school wants to be in the Big 12. Outside of Texas and Oklahoma look at that conference. Plus all the travel nightmares.

(04-29-2013 12:42 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  What is the problem with the direction they're going now by placing Louisville in Maryland's spot? So you have a couple of heavyweights like Clem/FSU..Louisville is on that next tier then NCSU after that. Wake, BC, and Syracuse bring up the bottom. On the coastal side the heavyweights are VT/Miami with GT/UNC next then UVA/Pitt with Duke bringing up the rear. There's more depth on the coastal side than atlantic.

Miami is a heavyweight ahead of GT? VT and GT have represented that division in every ACC Championship. Miami has never even won the division.

(04-29-2013 12:28 PM)Rich52c Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 11:06 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:53 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow.

IMO, you omit a big (3), which is that the agreement with Notre Dame boosted their cash flow (which ALWAYS matters to administrators. Always) up enough so that (1) and (2) could be implemented.

If the ACC's money was still stuck down at around $17 million, it would have been difficult if not impossible to get schools outside of NC and VA to sign a GoR.

I agree that ND "saved" the ACC by its partial membership.

That must really piss off Jim Delany. :)

ND saved ND.
They got a great deal from the ACC.
The financial value to the ACC is minimal.

ND's partial membership helped greatly with John Swofford's efforts to get everyone to sign a Grant of Rights for ten years.

So, you are partly right (ND helped ND) and partly wrong (ND did indeed help the ACC stay together).

The short term benefit of swapping Louisville and Georgia Tech is that it would appease the Walmart football fans of both FSU and Clemson -- "Hey look! We both get GT on our schedule each year. Yippee!!!".

And, I'm pretty certain UVA is not thrilled with being Louisville's cross-division rival. I'd bet $25 on that.

(04-29-2013 12:49 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:22 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:45 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

the B1G was never a option for UNC period. anybody that knows & understands the way UNC operates knows this.

I know you want to believe UNC is above the fray . . . but the Tobacco Road schools would have had no choice if the Big XII could have acted boldly before the GORs to take four ACC schools, including likely Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville . . . and anyone who understands the way UNC operates knows this; they wouldn't have liked it one bit, but UNC and Georgia Tech/Virginia would have been BIG bound and cashed their $40-50 million a year with regrets . . .

There is nothing the Big 12 could have done to get an ACC school. No ACC school wants to be in the Big 12. Outside of Texas and Oklahoma look at that conference. Plus all the travel nightmares.

Again, I know you want to believe that, but all the Big XII had to do was ask Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and they were out the door if the asking would have happened on the heels of Maryland . . . but they didn't, and the Big XII will regret it.

(04-29-2013 12:52 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:42 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  What is the problem with the direction they're going now by placing Louisville in Maryland's spot? So you have a couple of heavyweights like Clem/FSU..Louisville is on that next tier then NCSU after that. Wake, BC, and Syracuse bring up the bottom. On the coastal side the heavyweights are VT/Miami with GT/UNC next then UVA/Pitt with Duke bringing up the rear. There's more depth on the coastal side than atlantic.

Miami is a heavyweight ahead of GT? VT and GT have represented that division in every ACC Championship. Miami has never even won the division.

Though that's true, Miami is still viewed as a better program than GT. Miami went through a down period but has a far greater upside.

Why are you guys still re-doing divisions when he JUST said they're not changing?

(04-29-2013 01:00 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:49 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:22 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:45 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

the B1G was never a option for UNC period. anybody that knows & understands the way UNC operates knows this.

I know you want to believe UNC is above the fray . . . but the Tobacco Road schools would have had no choice if the Big XII could have acted boldly before the GORs to take four ACC schools, including likely Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville . . . and anyone who understands the way UNC operates knows this; they wouldn't have liked it one bit, but UNC and Georgia Tech/Virginia would have been BIG bound and cashed their $40-50 million a year with regrets . . .

There is nothing the Big 12 could have done to get an ACC school. No ACC school wants to be in the Big 12. Outside of Texas and Oklahoma look at that conference. Plus all the travel nightmares.

Again, I know you want to believe that, but all the Big XII had to do was ask Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and they were out the door if the asking would have happened on the heels of Maryland . . . but they didn't, and the Big XII will regret it.

Where are you getting that crazy information?

(04-29-2013 01:00 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:49 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 12:22 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:45 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

the B1G was never a option for UNC period. anybody that knows & understands the way UNC operates knows this.

I know you want to believe UNC is above the fray . . . but the Tobacco Road schools would have had no choice if the Big XII could have acted boldly before the GORs to take four ACC schools, including likely Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville . . . and anyone who understands the way UNC operates knows this; they wouldn't have liked it one bit, but UNC and Georgia Tech/Virginia would have been BIG bound and cashed their $40-50 million a year with regrets . . .

There is nothing the Big 12 could have done to get an ACC school. No ACC school wants to be in the Big 12. Outside of Texas and Oklahoma look at that conference. Plus all the travel nightmares.

Again, I know you want to believe that, but all the Big XII had to do was ask Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and they were out the door if the asking would have happened on the heels of Maryland . . . but they didn't, and the Big XII will regret it.

I thought they were waiting on the outcome of the ACC/ Maryland lawsuit? you mean all the had to do was ask, wow the B12 leadership must be really stupid

(04-29-2013 11:45 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  ACC is better served having competitive balance. It can ill afford to have a joke of a conference championship game.

It has for the past 9 years and it hasn't affected them thus far

(04-29-2013 01:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  Where are you getting that crazy information?

The Dude? Or maybe UHCougar is The Dude's handle on here? T'is all I got.

(04-29-2013 09:45 AM)mj4life Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 09:34 AM)UHCougar Wrote:  The ACC signed a GORs because the conference leaders: (1) the "academic" powers in UNC/Virginia didn't want to become second-class sports programs in the BIG, etc.; and (2) the others finally woke up and realized the ACC is a "better" conference of schools than the Big XII. The conference also put loyalty and relationships in front of cash flow. Ironic given the ACC built its middle by raiding the Big East . . . I admit I'm surprised by the leadership within the conference. I expected the BIG would poach a UNC/Virginia and in the ensuing panic, Florida, Miami, etc. would bolt to the Big XII . . . but this is what you get when you have "leadership" among your members, and a real conference commissioner.

the B1G was never a option for UNC period. anybody that knows & understands the way UNC operates knows this.

A better way of phrasing it would be that it WAS an option BUT it was an option they weren't interested in. I agree with you that anybody that thinks otherwise doesn't understand how UNC operates. I, for one, never believed UNC was going to the Big 10 and said it multiple times here. Without them, raiding the ACC further was more or less pointless.

Now if the ACC would just realign their divisions geographically, they would have a very compelling conference.

(04-29-2013 01:00 PM)UHCougar Wrote:  Again, I know you want to believe that, but all the Big XII had to do was ask Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and they were out the door if the asking would have happened on the heels of Maryland . . . but they didn't, and the Big XII will regret it.

Apparently the Big 12 tried that with FSU, UL, Miami and Clemson BEFORE the GOR was signed. I guess you missed that.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/colle...062832.php

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...ealignment

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-expansion

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012...to-get-in/