I think the state of North Carolina is an interesting one to study as far as market shares of colleges within the state, given the 5 D-1A schools and 7 D-1-AA schools in the state.

It would be interesting if someone did a statewide, by county of all 100 North Carolina counties, survey by a random scientific stratified sample by all 100 counties of a survey that asked survey respondents which of the 12 D-1-A and D-1-AA schools that they follow the most. Such questions could delve into who the watch the most on TV, who they listen to the most on the radio as far as coverage, who they read the most about in newspapers and on the internet, and which school they have the most sports memorialbellia for, and if they are an alumnus of any school and if so, which one.

A question could be something like this:

"1. Which of the following college sports teams do you follow the most?

A. Western Carolina
B. Elon
C. Duke
D. East Carolina
E. Furman
F. North Carolina State
G. Clemson
H. Appalachian State
I. Campbell
J. Wake Forest
K. North Carolina A & T
L. University of South Carolina
M. Davidson
N. UNC-Charlotte
O. University of North Carolina-Chappel Hill
P. Gardner-Webb
Q. UNC-Greensboro
R. High Point
S. Virginia Tech
T. Hampton
U. University of Virginia
V. William and Mary
W. Wofford
X. Norfolk State
Y. University of Tennessee
Z. Virginia Military Institute
AA. UNC-Wilmington
BB. Old Dominion
CC. North Carolina Central
DD. Fayetteville State
EE. Winston-Salem State
FF. Elizabeth City State
GG. UNC-Asheville

Maybe I forgot some. But if this was done as a survey for every one of the 100 North Carolina counties using a scientific random stratified samle for each of the 100 counties, it would illustrate, with some margin of error depending on sample size for each county, the market share by county of each Division I school in North Carolina and surrounding states. This would illustrate how much market share ECU has in the state, and if so, where there stronghold is, and if they have competition and where is the significant competition geographically speaking. In other words, it would determine if ECU has some share in not only the East, but the Central and Western parts of the state, as well as determine if these other North Carolina and neighboring states' schools have a signficant share in the Eastern, Central and Western parts of the states. This would illustrate market boundaries and who the competition is, and by how much within all market boundaries in the state.

What a strange, yet intriguing idea......

I think we have a map that shows the # of Pirate Club members per county - but that owuln't be a representaion to the scale you are talking about, necessarily...

The bottom lijne thing people need to realize about "markets" in NC is that the Raleigh/Durham market overlaps quite a bit into the Greenville/New Bern/Washington market - and areas that ABSOLUTELY should/would belong in the "ECU market" are instead considered part of the Ral/Dur market - it is a fallacy that has plaugued ECU for years - but it's simply more along the lines of an urban legend.......hell, i wouldn't surprise me at some point to see Greenville itself added to the Ral/Dur market - I mean, the Ral TV station, WRAL, is watched by TONS of folks in Greenville....so.....however you want to slice it....

Yeah, I think it would be interesting to see that.

By the way. Are there any supporters of UNC, NCSU, Duke, Wake Forest, in the Eastern North Carolina Counties, where ECU is located? Any idea on each of those teams market share in the eastern counties? The same question would be also, any idea about the share that ECU has in the Western and Central Counties of North Carolina compared to UNC, NCSU, Duke and Wake Forest or any other DI school in NC and neighboring states?

I guess what I am getting at is market isn't only confined to a region and only 1 team has following there within that region. Rather, other schools located in the state as well as neighboring schools in neighboring states may also have some share of the market in whatever region is being discussed.

Let's see if the Raleigh station covers ECU.
Check out local teams:

http://www.wral.com/sports/index.html

Even the #1 sports talk (in the southeast USA) show out of Charlotte covers ECU.....they are part of Pirate Radio and mention us everyday.


http://wfnz.com/listings10844.asp

Yep, they do, and they also cover UNC, NCSU, Duke, Wake Forest, North Carolina Central (forgot them in my survey question above) and they also have Campbell (forgot them too), Shaw, Fayetteville State, and St. Augustine's in their "More Teams" section along with all the ACC teams, except BC. What's interesting is that ECU is the only hyperlink of a CUSA team, and yet they have 11 of the 12 ACC teams.

another thing that is missed out of those numbers, is we have 5 large Military bases located in the ECU area, with over 220,000 military personal.
Like Fort Bragg, Seymore Johnson Air Force, Camp Lejeune, Cherry Point Marine Base, and Pope Air Force.

And just up the road is the Norfolk Ship Yard.

Who do those military personnel root for among college teams? That survey question would probably need to go more national with choices, as they could be from anywhere in the US.

we send buses to the bases and bring solders to our games. The is part of the reasoning for scheduling NAVY.

How many military personnel ride the buses to go to the games? Is ECU their favorite team, or is it just an activity they do to relieve stress? Are they really Navy fans that come from any of those bases that are Naval bases?

Also, do other North Carolina schools send buses for military personnel to attend their games as well? Such as NCSU, UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, Fayetteville State, William and Mary? etc.

People that live on a military base for at least 6 months and 1 day (50+% of a year) during the year in which a US Census is conducted, the last in 2000, are considered and counted as part of the local and state population, so they are already accounted for in the market if they meet this definition.

We are the only D-1 football school east of 95 (over a 1/3 of NC). We are closer to the Tidewater Va. area than VT or UVA.

We will increase our stadium to over 50,000 this year. People will take that short drive to Greenville to watch teams like WVU, UVA, VT, Navy, UNC, and NCSU.

Don't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Pinetown Wrote:We are the only D-1 football school east of 95 (over a 1/3 of NC). We are closer to the Tidewater Va. area than VT or UVA.

We will increase our stadium to over 50,000 this year. People will take that short drive to Greenville to watch teams like WVU, UVA, VT, Navy, UNC, and NCSU.

Don't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

If that was ECU's home schedule year in and year out, that would be SWEET! The problem is that those games are spread out over a span of years...

The question is... will 50,000 folks make that short drive when ECU is playing teams like Marshall, Central Fredo, UAB, Memphis, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Houston, Southern Miss, Rice or UTEP...?

That stadium will have many of the 50,000+ seats empty for most games. I don't see that area supporting ECU with a steady supply of packed houses.

Pinetown Wrote:We are the only D-1 football school east of 95 (over a 1/3 of NC). We are closer to the Tidewater Va. area than VT or UVA.

We will increase our stadium to over 50,000 this year. People will take that short drive to Greenville to watch teams like WVU, UVA, VT, Navy, UNC, and NCSU.

Don't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Yes, ECU is the only school east of 95. But what share of the market does ECU have of that market east of 95?

It is rare in the US for 1 school to exclusively own a market, no matter how you define it. Probably the only schools that exclusively own an entire market, especially statewide, are University of Minnesota, University of Nebraska, University of Hawaii, and the University of Wyoming. All of these states have no other DI school and no D I-AA schools in their boundaries.

The rest of the nation, in all regions, and I may be wrong on this, have competition. ECU may be the largest following east of 95, but UNC and NCSU and maybe Duke and Wake, are the type of schools that are likely to have statewide significance that you may have people east of 95 that follow them instead or along with ECU. The I-95 boundary is not a state boundary and seems kind of arbitrary where following for other North Carolina schools east of that boundary would drop off, especially given the type of schools UNC and NCSU are. Maybe I am wrong. I would doubt that the area east of 95 is an exclusive ECU market.

Planning ahead..... with those teams scheduled, people will more than likely have to buy season tickets.... a key point.

over 10,000 ECU alumi live in the Raleigh area. Before NCSU's latest stadium expansion, the largest crowd ever to see a State game was with ECU. 3 of the top 10. Not UNC or Duke or Wake, but ECU.
The largest crowd ever to see a game at Duke was ECU.

We draw a crowd......

Market size doesn't matter. If it did Temple would still be in th eBig ast.

Market size is a factor in conference expansion decisions.

Temple is a bad example. Its not only about population, but about share of the market, market penetration, and interest in the sport and team. Temple is in the Philly market, but the problem with the Philly market is that its more of a Penn State market rather than a Temple market. Temple's penentration, and perhaps because of performance, may be more like a local I-AA school rather than a D I school. Its not as simple as how much population, but market size, share of the market with other competition, interest in the sport, etc.

I think this question should be posed not only of ECU's market, but other BE expansion candidates as well, and in a similar fashion. It would be interesting to see a survey, like the one I describe, applied to Memphis, UCF, Marshall, UAB, and Southern Miss to see what size and share of their market is, given the competition within their respective areas. If this is a question of the 9th member of the BE, then all factors would need to be looked at including market to see all the advantages and disadvantages of the competition.

In all likliehood, just observing some of the competition of all these candidates in their markets, they may be about equal in market size. However, with the growth of the Orlando area, UCF may have the biggest pontential of getting bigger than the other candidates. That is if they could grow their following and penetration of the Central Florida market along with the population growth potential. But then again any team, if they have a drop off in performance could lose penetration. Temple is the worst case scenario. And maybe that is the strength of ECU and maintaining attendance in down times.

But my point is that the market, which is the question of this thread, when compared to UCF's, Memphis, UAB's, USM, and Marshall (which may be the smallest) is a concern, especially when they may all be similar in size. Any advantage in any factor (performance, market size/penetration, academics, attendance, geographic location, etc), albeit slight, may be an advantage in a competition for a 9th member of the BE.

firedawg Wrote:

Pinetown Wrote:We are the only D-1 football school east of 95 (over a 1/3 of NC). We are closer to the Tidewater Va. area than VT or UVA.

We will increase our stadium to over 50,000 this year. People will take that short drive to Greenville to watch teams like WVU, UVA, VT, Navy, UNC, and NCSU.

Don't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Yes, ECU is the only school east of 95. But what share of the market does ECU have of that market east of 95?

It is rare in the US for 1 school to exclusively own a market, no matter how you define it. Probably the only schools that exclusively own an entire market, especially statewide, are University of Minnesota, University of Nebraska, University of Hawaii, and the University of Wyoming. All of these states have no other DI school and no D I-AA schools in their boundaries.

The rest of the nation, in all regions, and I may be wrong on this, have competition. ECU may be the largest following east of 95, but UNC and NCSU and maybe Duke and Wake, are the type of schools that are likely to have statewide significance that you may have people east of 95 that follow them instead or along with ECU. The I-95 boundary is not a state boundary and seems kind of arbitrary where following for other North Carolina schools east of that boundary would drop off, especially given the type of schools UNC and NCSU are. Maybe I am wrong. I would doubt that the area east of 95 is an exclusive ECU market.

Well said.

Even in Greenville, there have been numerous occurences where city merchants have catered to fans of ACC schools. A few years back even the ECU Student Union had an "ACC Tournament" promotion on campus. I'm also sure that students at ECU wear ACC apparel on campus just as I did, even though its probably frowned on.

Before today, nobody had commented on this thread since March 30, more than a week. That meant the thread was dead!