(03-11-2013 12:32 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 12:29 AM)FargoBison Wrote:  For one thing I never said you are never right. I just said you hate NDSU and it affects your credibility about topics concerning NDSU.

Do you really think our AD is going to blurt out to the whole world that a conference is looking at our school? He did what any AD does, say nobody has contacted us and we are happy where we are at. Whether that is true or not who knows.

I have no doubt that Elgin and his loons have been in contact with the Dakotas. But the school presidents still have the final say and the votes will not be there.

(03-11-2013 01:03 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 12:51 AM)FargoBison Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 12:32 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 12:29 AM)FargoBison Wrote:  For one thing I never said you are never right. I just said you hate NDSU and it affects your credibility about topics concerning NDSU.

Do you really think our AD is going to blurt out to the whole world that a conference is looking at our school? He did what any AD does, say nobody has contacted us and we are happy where we are at. Whether that is true or not who knows.

I have no doubt that Elgin and his loons have been in contact with the Dakotas. But the school presidents still have the final say and the votes will not be there.

Yeah, it seems like the private schools are dead set against NDSU so it is a non-starter really even though some of the public schools would probably place NDSU high on their list.

I don't really know which private school the MVC should add, they all seem about the same really. I do like Valpo though but nobody seems to talk about them. ORU has a good baseball program to go with basketball but I'm not sure if they are sound financial ground. Belmont has been good but I'm not sure if they could step up to the MVC's level.

Based on the little message board hopping I do, the Dakotas don't stand a chance. I can't see Evansville or Drake voting for them. UNI fans seem to think there's no chance in hell that they'd vote for them. MSU fans seem to think the same. There's zero support from Shocker Nation. I don't think Bradley is a fan of the idea. Don't know about Southern or the ISUs. But still, you'd need 5 votes of the 9 remaining to get in.

Belmont I think could be successful in the MVC. At least with their current coach. I don't think they'd win, but they could be an upper half team. Attendance sucks.

Valpo has been mentioned in the USA today article and is solid. Probably option 3 or 4 when it comes to the privates.

Denver would be a favorite if they change their mind. A lot of people see the potential there. Perhaps they don't think they're ready to step up to the plate.

ORU has no more financial issues. A massive donation was made to get them on solid ground and leadership was changed as well. Their baseball has fallen a bit but both are solid sports. Seems like they're probably the last option right now. Well, hopefully ahead of Loyola.

Message board talk doesn't mean much, two MVC AD's told one of our media people that there was interest but the private schools would have to have some opinion shifts and be convinced to get on board. That was said back in September of this year.

On a presidential level NDSU is an impressive school, it is on the highest tier of research universities. Plus the MVC presidents in the MVFC are very aware of how well are athletics program is supported.

That said it appears the private schools want another private school, they vote as a block so talking about adding NDSU isn't going to get much traction.

I'd really question ORU's financial position, their attendance numbers are a make belive fantasy. If the MVC poaches Denver, the league would have a football problem and potentially lose NDSU from the MVFC. There are some MVC schools that do not want to see that happen.

Belmont is probably the best option I guess.

How would adding Denver create a football problem? Nothing the MVC does, or will do, should have anything to do with football. The MVFC can deal with that if need be. But we will not do risk our basketball for football.

ORU has no more financial issues.

Belmont will be questioned because of attendance issues.

I know the presidents aren't the fans, but athletics will still play a big role in this and I don't see any of the basketball programs being overly excited about XDSU. I can guarantee that Gregg Marshall will be asked what his thoughts are on any addition by Dr. Bardo. I'm sure other coaches will get to voice their opinion, but basketball is king. And travel would still be an issue for the poor sisters to the east. You could say Denver isn't much better, but I believe it's easier to get to.

I haven't seen or heard any credible source mention the Dakotas seriously at all. Even when talking about non-privates.

And for the record, Elgin is an idiot.

(03-11-2013 01:37 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  How would adding Denver create a football problem? Nothing the MVC does, or will do, should have anything to do with football. The MVFC can deal with that if need be. But we will not do risk our basketball for football.

I know the presidents aren't the fans, but athletics will still play a big role in this and I don't see any of the basketball programs being overly excited about XDSU. I can guarantee that Gregg Marshall will be asked what his thoughts are on any addition by Dr. Bardo. I'm sure other coaches will get to voice their opinion, but basketball is king. And travel would still be an issue for the poor sisters to the east. You could say Denver isn't much better, but I believe it's easier to get to.

I haven't seen or heard any credible source mention the Dakotas seriously at all. Even when talking about non-privates.

And for the record, Elgin is an idiot.

Because it could destroy the Summit League, a league that contains four MVFC members including the MVFC's best program NDSU. So voting for Denver could greatly affect the strength of the MVFC. Obviously the MVC won't add a member because of football but some of the football playing members may let what could happen to the MVFC impact their decisions.

I don't know what you define as a credible source. Various Kansas City media people have said NDSU was kicked around. The sports anchor of a Fargo TV station said this in September on twitter....

Quote:@MVCfans I think the Valley would take 2, NDSU and SDSU

Quote:Been told league is interested, would take some other shifts to happen/approval from Drake,Creighton to get on board

Quote:Dallas Hoelscher ‏@DJHoelscher
@DomIzzoWDAY "Been told" by whom? An NDSU fan? Only scenario would be complete desperation by MVC due to lost members.

Quote:Dom Izzo
‏@DomIzzoWDAY
@DJHoelscher Two MVC Athletic directors

https://twitter.com/DomIzzoWDAY/status/2...4400943104

I just want to say again I've always thought NDSU was a longshot because of travel and private school issues. I don't think we are a serious candidate right now because of those issues. But it appears we at least have some support within the league, which is the only point I ever intended to make.

(03-11-2013 12:43 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 05:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 05:36 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  I bet the Big Sky would go to 14/16(once Idaho drops to FCS) w/ NDSU and SDSU if the Summit died.

IMHO, Sac St would have to have an offer for the Big West for NDSU to get an invite (and go to 12/15). If the Big Sky sensed any future movements, maybe then it would go to 14 full members. Most schools would go decades without an autobid with 14.

I think part of the deal with Cal Poly and UC Davis's football only membership is that the Big West agreed not to approach Sac State about joining for all sports. Not sure if this is correct though. In any case, while it's true that conferences can have too many schools, I can't understand why the Big Sky would let its only California member out the door even if they are allowed to keep football in the BSC.

Sac St would get the Big West back to 10 full members (where that conference should be at IMHO), fully secure the Sacramento market and provide a natural travel partner for UC Davis.

you are correct

I ask the following questions not to flame but to seek information. Why would Belmont want to move from the OVC to the MVC? They just got to the OVC, they are in a conference where the trips are all bus trips, vs the cost of flying, and they are able to be competitive in their current league. Is the payout for the MVC so much more than the OVC? Add to this they have some really good opportunities to develop rivalries with TSU, UTM, and APSU with their close proximity, and I don't see the incentive.

I have numerous Belmont alumni in my circle of friends / coworkers/ associates and none of them are expressing a desire to move.

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk HD

I have no idea what their interests would be, but they could easily bus to Evansville, Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Bradley. I don't know if the Iowa schools are too far as I haven't looked at it.

I don't know what kind of deal the OVC has. I know the MVC's TV deal isn't all that great. 400k per school and more than likely we'll have more NCAA Tourney money to pass around. Does that make up for any extra travel? No clue.

One thing to consider though is if the MVC goes to 12, Murray State could be a likely target. That would add another close school and the conference would be split E/W so the poorer schools in the east could save on travel as well.

I still wonder if the attendance issues at Belmont might make some schools hesitant to add them.

(03-10-2013 10:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 09:38 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  Not going to read through 6 pages, so here is my take on this...

It could be the beginning of the collapse of the MVC. Elgin has not shown me that he's capable of being proactive in making any decisions. He sat on his hands for way too long and now the whole conference may pay the price. You can't lose your #1 and replace it with some of the mentioned schools, you just cant. Then you factor in the unknowables right now (Could Evansville be leaving? Illinois State? MO State?) and it's a bad situation.

That said, Belmont would be my top choice. Good market in Nashville and pretty solid programs all around.

Belmont doesn't have a good all-sports program. They would get killed in the MVC. It would be a worse move than adding Evansville.

Belmont just won their 3rd straight NCAA autobid. This year's was their first in the OVC, where they beat Murray State in the OVC Championship game, who isn't exactly a pushover. Belmont hasn't been Division 1 for long either. So don't bet on them getting rolled over...

You have two different groups in the Valley. I would think Drake, Bradley and UE would support another private school, like Denver or Loyola. While Loyola has struggled, it is in Chicago, so it might add some exposure for the league. I think a Murray State would be a good fit, especially if the football program get a MVFC invite too. Location fits. Goods hoops program. Too me, a school like Belmont doesn't make that much sense. Good hoops program, but they are a very small school in a medium market. BTW, in Milwaukee, UWM is getting mentioned. Unless they build that on-campus arena, I just can't see it. The entire athletic program has fallen apart over the past couple of years.

(03-11-2013 10:45 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 10:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 09:38 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  Not going to read through 6 pages, so here is my take on this...

It could be the beginning of the collapse of the MVC. Elgin has not shown me that he's capable of being proactive in making any decisions. He sat on his hands for way too long and now the whole conference may pay the price. You can't lose your #1 and replace it with some of the mentioned schools, you just cant. Then you factor in the unknowables right now (Could Evansville be leaving? Illinois State? MO State?) and it's a bad situation.

That said, Belmont would be my top choice. Good market in Nashville and pretty solid programs all around.

Belmont doesn't have a good all-sports program. They would get killed in the MVC. It would be a worse move than adding Evansville.

Belmont just won their 3rd straight NCAA autobid. This year's was their first in the OVC, where they beat Murray State in the OVC Championship game, who isn't exactly a pushover. Belmont hasn't been Division 1 for long either. So don't bet on them getting rolled over...

Considering how the MVC schools have thumped Murray over the years, its not that impressive.

(03-11-2013 11:07 AM)MU88 Wrote:  You have two different groups in the Valley. I would think Drake, Bradley and UE would support another private school, like Denver or Loyola. While Loyola has struggled, it is in Chicago, so it might add some exposure for the league. I think a Murray State would be a good fit, especially if the football program get a MVFC invite too. Location fits. Goods hoops program. Too me, a school like Belmont doesn't make that much sense. Good hoops program, but they are a very small school in a medium market. BTW, in Milwaukee, UWM is getting mentioned. Unless they build that on-campus arena, I just can't see it. The entire athletic program has fallen apart over the past couple of years.

Milwaukee has fallen hard. It seems liked when they moved out of the MECCA and they nose dived.

I used to be big on Milwaukee for the MVC. But lately they've been questionable. They'd have to have a solid plan in place to convince the MVC to let them in right now.

I still don't know if another IL team is a good call. We already have three. Especially if it's destined to be in the bottom half of the conference. At least Denver and Belmont and even Valpo could compete for upper half finishes.

(03-11-2013 09:20 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I have no idea what their interests would be, but they could easily bus to Evansville, Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Bradley. I don't know if the Iowa schools are too far as I haven't looked at it.

Illinois State and Bradley are closer to a 7 hour drive from Nashville, as is Missouri State.
The Iowa schools are 10 hours away.

Even Indiana State is 4 plus hours away

(03-11-2013 11:07 AM)MU88 Wrote:  You have two different groups in the Valley. I would think Drake, Bradley and UE would support another private school, like Denver or Loyola. While Loyola has struggled, it is in Chicago, so it might add some exposure for the league. I think a Murray State would be a good fit, especially if the football program get a MVFC invite too. Location fits. Goods hoops program. Too me, a school like Belmont doesn't make that much sense. Good hoops program, but they are a very small school in a medium market. BTW, in Milwaukee, UWM is getting mentioned. Unless they build that on-campus arena, I just can't see it. The entire athletic program has fallen apart over the past couple of years.

This sounds about right. Also remember that Chicago is an important area for several MVC schools, too (particularly Illinois State, Bradley, Southern Illinois), in terms of where their students are from and grads end up living. Chicago isn't just a big market for the sake of adding a big market for the MVC - it's a place where there are a lot of potential MVC network effects that haven't been tapped. That's why Loyola would be in the mix despite some atrocious on-the-court play lately.

The MVC is almost the flip side of the Horizon, in that the MVC has small markets (generally speaking) but excellent fan support for a midmajor league. The Horizon has very good markets on paper, but the fan support is generally weak.

(03-11-2013 11:36 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I still don't know if another IL team is a good call. We already have three. Especially if it's destined to be in the bottom half of the conference. At least Denver and Belmont and even Valpo could compete for upper half finishes.

I could understand that thinking on paper, but you have to remember that Downstate Illinois (meaning "anywhere in Illinois that isn't Chicagoland") is effectively a separate state culturally and in terms of media mindshare. Even though Illinois State and Southern Illinois might actually have more grads in the Chicago area than Loyola itself (I don't know that for a fact, but it wouldn't surprise me), it's still not the same as actually having a physical presence directly in the market. The Illini and Notre Dame can get away with that to a certain extent, but other schools can't (and even then, Illinois always visits Northwestern along with having an annual non-conference game at the United Center and Notre Dame traditionally scheduled DePaul even when they weren't in the same conference).

Let's put it this way: the MVC ought to be getting much better coverage from the Chicago media considering how many MVC grads live here and the fact that it plays much more compelling basketball compared to the Horizon League, but a big reason (if not the only reason) that they aren't is the lack of a Chicago school in the league. The MVC is effectively out of sight and out of mind to the Chicago media unless one of the Illinois-based members goes on a hot run in the NCAA Tournament.

I MIGHT buy the argument for Loyola if we go to 12. If we're simply replacing Creighton, no way in hell. The MVC has to find a school with a solid basketball program with upside. I'm pretty sure Wichita is already reaching out to others to check on interest, if the only add is a horrid basketball school, we'd probably sell our souls to get out. Markets don't mean as much to the MVC as some conferences. We have to have good/decent basketball. I suppose they'd have a shot if the privates agreed that's who they want and the IL schools were on board with it. Even if it did severely hurt the basketball side of things. I doubt Loyola would get votes from Wichita, MSU, UNI or Indiana State. That'd mean only one of the privates or IL schools would have to vote no.

(03-11-2013 02:04 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I MIGHT buy the argument for Loyola if we go to 12. If we're simply replacing Creighton, no way in hell. The MVC has to find a school with a solid basketball program with upside. I'm pretty sure Wichita is already reaching out to others to check on interest, if the only add is a horrid basketball school, we'd probably sell our souls to get out. Markets don't mean as much to the MVC as some conferences. We have to have good/decent basketball. I suppose they'd have a shot if the privates agreed that's who they want and the IL schools were on board with it. Even if it did severely hurt the basketball side of things. I doubt Loyola would get votes from Wichita, MSU, UNI or Indiana State. That'd mean only one of the privates or IL schools would have to vote no.

I agree with you there. I also can't see Loyola being a viable lone replacement. If Denver is out (for whatever reason), then I could see an expansion with Belmont, Valpo and Loyola being possible. That being said, no one is replacing Creighton in the MVC. There's going to be a drop in the conference's RPI no matter what happens. The primary saving grace is that the A-10's status is going to drop like a rock, too, so the MVC *relative* to the rest of the conferences probably won't change no matter who they end up expanding with. It's largely going to be a 1 or 2-bid league regularly.

(03-11-2013 11:16 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 10:45 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 10:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 09:38 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  Not going to read through 6 pages, so here is my take on this...

It could be the beginning of the collapse of the MVC. Elgin has not shown me that he's capable of being proactive in making any decisions. He sat on his hands for way too long and now the whole conference may pay the price. You can't lose your #1 and replace it with some of the mentioned schools, you just cant. Then you factor in the unknowables right now (Could Evansville be leaving? Illinois State? MO State?) and it's a bad situation.

That said, Belmont would be my top choice. Good market in Nashville and pretty solid programs all around.

Belmont doesn't have a good all-sports program. They would get killed in the MVC. It would be a worse move than adding Evansville.

Belmont just won their 3rd straight NCAA autobid. This year's was their first in the OVC, where they beat Murray State in the OVC Championship game, who isn't exactly a pushover. Belmont hasn't been Division 1 for long either. So don't bet on them getting rolled over...

Considering how the MVC schools have thumped Murray over the years, its not that impressive.

Considering that Belmont has just moved from the Atlantic Sun to the OVC, and is only 8 seasons removed from NAIA competition, I'd say it's pretty impressive...

How many programs have moved up to Division 1 from NAIA competition, and become so successful?
How many programs have won 6 NCAA tourney bids in their first 8 years of Division 1 competition?

The only one that comes to mind is Belmont. I can't think of any others...

(03-11-2013 02:19 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 11:16 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 10:45 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 10:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 09:38 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  Not going to read through 6 pages, so here is my take on this...

It could be the beginning of the collapse of the MVC. Elgin has not shown me that he's capable of being proactive in making any decisions. He sat on his hands for way too long and now the whole conference may pay the price. You can't lose your #1 and replace it with some of the mentioned schools, you just cant. Then you factor in the unknowables right now (Could Evansville be leaving? Illinois State? MO State?) and it's a bad situation.

That said, Belmont would be my top choice. Good market in Nashville and pretty solid programs all around.

Belmont doesn't have a good all-sports program. They would get killed in the MVC. It would be a worse move than adding Evansville.

Belmont just won their 3rd straight NCAA autobid. This year's was their first in the OVC, where they beat Murray State in the OVC Championship game, who isn't exactly a pushover. Belmont hasn't been Division 1 for long either. So don't bet on them getting rolled over...

Considering how the MVC schools have thumped Murray over the years, its not that impressive.

Considering that Belmont has just moved from the Atlantic Sun to the OVC, and is only 8 seasons removed from NAIA competition, I'd say it's pretty impressive...

How many programs have moved up to Division 1 from NAIA competition, and become so successful?
How many programs have won 6 NCAA tourney bids in their first 8 years of Division 1 competition?

The only one that comes to mind is Belmont. I can't think of any others...

Yeah, I think Belmont's performance on-the-court is going to make them a hot commodity. There are slim pickings out there in terms of schools that have some on-the-court success and are in a location that people actually want to travel to, and Belmont fits both criteria. Heck, you might even see the A-10 go after them and the Horizon would be interested, too. You could have at least 3 conferences looking to add them. It's not even a lock that the MVC could get Belmont.

(03-11-2013 02:19 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 11:16 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 10:45 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 10:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 09:38 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  Not going to read through 6 pages, so here is my take on this...

It could be the beginning of the collapse of the MVC. Elgin has not shown me that he's capable of being proactive in making any decisions. He sat on his hands for way too long and now the whole conference may pay the price. You can't lose your #1 and replace it with some of the mentioned schools, you just cant. Then you factor in the unknowables right now (Could Evansville be leaving? Illinois State? MO State?) and it's a bad situation.

That said, Belmont would be my top choice. Good market in Nashville and pretty solid programs all around.

Belmont doesn't have a good all-sports program. They would get killed in the MVC. It would be a worse move than adding Evansville.

Belmont just won their 3rd straight NCAA autobid. This year's was their first in the OVC, where they beat Murray State in the OVC Championship game, who isn't exactly a pushover. Belmont hasn't been Division 1 for long either. So don't bet on them getting rolled over...

Considering how the MVC schools have thumped Murray over the years, its not that impressive.

Considering that Belmont has just moved from the Atlantic Sun to the OVC, and is only 8 seasons removed from NAIA competition, I'd say it's pretty impressive...

How many programs have moved up to Division 1 from NAIA competition, and become so successful?
How many programs have won 6 NCAA tourney bids in their first 8 years of Division 1 competition?

The only one that comes to mind is Belmont. I can't think of any others...

they moved to D-I in 1997. So I don't know where you get the 8 years part but yeah they're good and are the top wanted option for the MVC. SDSU and NDSU top not wanted options. I think this is their 10 year of being post season eligible. 7 years provisional for NAIA back then and 5 for D-II move ups. Now NAIA to D-I can't happen and D-II to D-I is 4 years.

(03-11-2013 02:19 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 11:16 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-11-2013 10:45 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 10:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 09:38 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  Not going to read through 6 pages, so here is my take on this...

It could be the beginning of the collapse of the MVC. Elgin has not shown me that he's capable of being proactive in making any decisions. He sat on his hands for way too long and now the whole conference may pay the price. You can't lose your #1 and replace it with some of the mentioned schools, you just cant. Then you factor in the unknowables right now (Could Evansville be leaving? Illinois State? MO State?) and it's a bad situation.

That said, Belmont would be my top choice. Good market in Nashville and pretty solid programs all around.

Belmont doesn't have a good all-sports program. They would get killed in the MVC. It would be a worse move than adding Evansville.

Belmont just won their 3rd straight NCAA autobid. This year's was their first in the OVC, where they beat Murray State in the OVC Championship game, who isn't exactly a pushover. Belmont hasn't been Division 1 for long either. So don't bet on them getting rolled over...

Considering how the MVC schools have thumped Murray over the years, its not that impressive.

Considering that Belmont has just moved from the Atlantic Sun to the OVC, and is only 8 seasons removed from NAIA competition, I'd say it's pretty impressive...

How many programs have moved up to Division 1 from NAIA competition, and become so successful?
How many programs have won 6 NCAA tourney bids in their first 8 years of Division 1 competition?

The only one that comes to mind is Belmont. I can't think of any others...

We had 5 NCAA tournament bids, including an at-large and 3 NIT apperances in our first 8 years.