Problem is the Dakotas are like 8 hours away. No way they get added, the travel would be killer for olympic sports.

(03-10-2013 01:45 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:20 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:10 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:05 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 12:59 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  It's not a problem if the Horizon takes NDSU and SDSU. It's a problem if they don't. If the MVC takes Denver, and the Horizon takes Oakland, the Summit is in very deep trouble and it's autobid is in jeopardy. If the Summit loses another school, it is game over. Then NDSU has to find a new conference and the MVFC loses its best program and a couple others. The MVC may not care but the football playing members of the MVC will.

If NMSU gets football only in the Sunbelt, the WAC is at 9 and fairly solid. Hurd has said they want to be either at 8,10 or 12. The WAC would add Omaha in a heartbeat. I don't think they want the Dakota schools but I am speculating and don't know that for a fact.

The WAC wants anyone who will say yes. I dont see why the Sun Belt would want NMSU for football only. They're a far outlier as it is and their basketball is worth having.

They why is Benson talking about it? Because he is.

Just because Benson is talking about it doesnt mean its a good idea.

True that. But just because it might not be a good idea doesn't mean it won't happen either. I think you are probably right that the Belt will add GSU, App St, and NMSU for all sports when WKU leaves. But it sure sounds like somebody is pushing for a CCG. The football only concept other than NMSU or Idaho that was mentioned is interesting too. It sounds like it is up in the air and hasn't been decided yet.

Either way, killing the Summit is a problem for the football members of the MVC. I'm pretty sure that will factor in on who they vote to add to the MVC.

Benson is full of ideas, they just aren't good ones. SBC will make the right choice and it will be b/c they 10 prez' agree on it. App, Ga So. NMSU for all sports. If SBC doesn't want NMSU for all sports then they'll probably add JMU or someone else more regional for the last spot. NMSU would be WAC/Indy.

(03-10-2013 01:45 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  Either way, killing the Summit is a problem for the football members of the MVC. I'm pretty sure that will factor in on who they vote to add to the MVC.

The eastern MVFC schools did not want NDSU in the conference because that game requires a flight instead of a bus ride. The way NDSU got in is by agreeing to a schedule where schools like Indiana St do not have to travel to Fargo much.

If the Summit dissolves, the Summit football schools would likely be forced to move the olympic sports into the WAC (but not for football obviously). The schools with dual MVFC/Summit membership would change to MVFC/WAC members. Youngstown St has a MVFC/Horizon membership. YSU's Horizon membership is irrelevant to the MVFC.

(03-10-2013 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:45 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  Either way, killing the Summit is a problem for the football members of the MVC. I'm pretty sure that will factor in on who they vote to add to the MVC.

The eastern MVFC schools did not want NDSU in the conference because that game requires a flight instead of a bus ride. The way NDSU got in is by agreeing to a schedule where schools like Indiana St do not have to travel to Fargo much.

If the Summit dissolves, the Summit football schools would likely be forced to move the olympic sports into the WAC (but not for football obviously). The schools with dual MVFC/Summit membership would change to MVFC/WAC members. Youngstown St has a MVFC/Horizon membership. YSU's Horizon membership is irrelevant to the MVFC.

I bet the Big Sky would go to 14/16(once Idaho drops to FCS) w/ NDSU and SDSU if the Summit died.

(03-10-2013 05:36 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:45 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  Either way, killing the Summit is a problem for the football members of the MVC. I'm pretty sure that will factor in on who they vote to add to the MVC.

The eastern MVFC schools did not want NDSU in the conference because that game requires a flight instead of a bus ride. The way NDSU got in is by agreeing to a schedule where schools like Indiana St do not have to travel to Fargo much.

If the Summit dissolves, the Summit football schools would likely be forced to move the olympic sports into the WAC (but not for football obviously). The schools with dual MVFC/Summit membership would change to MVFC/WAC members. Youngstown St has a MVFC/Horizon membership. YSU's Horizon membership is irrelevant to the MVFC.

I bet the Big Sky would go to 14/16(once Idaho drops to FCS) w/ NDSU and SDSU if the Summit died.

IMHO, Sac St would have to have an offer for the Big West for NDSU to get an invite (and go to 12/15). If the Big Sky sensed any future movements, maybe then it would go to 14 full members. Most schools would go decades without an autobid with 14.

(03-10-2013 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:45 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  Either way, killing the Summit is a problem for the football members of the MVC. I'm pretty sure that will factor in on who they vote to add to the MVC.

The eastern MVFC schools did not want NDSU in the conference because that game requires a flight instead of a bus ride. The way NDSU got in is by agreeing to a schedule where schools like Indiana St do not have to travel to Fargo much.

If the Summit dissolves, the Summit football schools would likely be forced to move the olympic sports into the WAC (but not for football obviously). The schools with dual MVFC/Summit membership would change to MVFC/WAC members. Youngstown St has a MVFC/Horizon membership. YSU's Horizon membership is irrelevant to the MVFC.

I really don't think the WAC will invite a bunch of Summit football schools. Doubt that will be an option for them. I'm fine with it, I guess, if you want to have basically a Summit division and a WAC division, but I don't think there is much appetite for a bunch of trips to the frozen tundra. It depends on if Chicago St, UTPA, and UMKC want to play in North and South Dakota, or at Phoenix, Salt Lake, and Seattle.

Dug would take NDSU into the Big Sky. No way a FCS football first league like the BSC passes up on them. Not sure what the others would do.

WIU would likely push for Ohio Valley if the OVC loses Belmont-with EIU already in the conference, this obviously works from a geography standpoint.

Assuming all of IUPUI, IPFW, and Oakland have departed, the remaining five have limited options. The Big Sky would probably be best served by a "soft merger" with the Summit. The Big Sky would essentially split so that both the Summit and Big Sky would be FCS conferences.

Summit - UND, NDSU, Denver*, Omaha*, USD, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, Northern Colorado (plus the 5 MVFC schools for football only)

Big Sky - EWU, Idaho*, Idaho State, Weber State, SUU, NAU, Portland State, Sacramento State (plus UC Davis and Cal Poly for football only)

The Big Sky could negotiate a long-term scheduling agreement where the schools that left commit to a certain number of Big Sky opponents annually-that guarantees teams still get a home football game against Montana every now and then.

(03-10-2013 08:18 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  WIU would likely push for Ohio Valley if the OVC loses Belmont-with EIU already in the conference, this obviously works from a geography standpoint.

Assuming all of IUPUI, IPFW, and Oakland have departed, the remaining five have limited options. The Big Sky would probably be best served by a "soft merger" with the Summit. The Big Sky would essentially split so that both the Summit and Big Sky would be FCS conferences.

Summit - UND, NDSU, Denver*, Omaha*, USD, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, Northern Colorado (plus the 5 MVFC schools for football only)

Big Sky - EWU, Idaho*, Idaho State, Weber State, SUU, NAU, Portland State, Sacramento State (plus UC Davis and Cal Poly for football only)

The Big Sky could negotiate a long-term scheduling agreement where the schools that left commit to a certain number of Big Sky opponents annually-that guarantees teams still get a home football game against Montana every now and then.

UNA already wants in the OVC and is a top D-II school, so the timing would have to be right. Meaning Belmont goes to the MVC and at the same time the Summit gets HL invites thus killing the Summit. otherwise UNA will probably fill the hole.

(03-10-2013 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:45 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  Either way, killing the Summit is a problem for the football members of the MVC. I'm pretty sure that will factor in on who they vote to add to the MVC.

The eastern MVFC schools did not want NDSU in the conference because that game requires a flight instead of a bus ride. The way NDSU got in is by agreeing to a schedule where schools like Indiana St do not have to travel to Fargo much.

If the Summit dissolves, the Summit football schools would likely be forced to move the olympic sports into the WAC (but not for football obviously). The schools with dual MVFC/Summit membership would change to MVFC/WAC members. Youngstown St has a MVFC/Horizon membership. YSU's Horizon membership is irrelevant to the MVFC.

Completely and totally wrong. When NDSU joined the MVFC every team played each other. Not sure what would happen if the Summit dissolved, I'd guess NDSU would try to get into the Big Sky at that point.

The concern over adding NDSU was that some schools didn't want to add another strong program to the league. Travel concerns played a role when USD was admitted.

(03-10-2013 08:31 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:18 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  WIU would likely push for Ohio Valley if the OVC loses Belmont-with EIU already in the conference, this obviously works from a geography standpoint.

Assuming all of IUPUI, IPFW, and Oakland have departed, the remaining five have limited options. The Big Sky would probably be best served by a "soft merger" with the Summit. The Big Sky would essentially split so that both the Summit and Big Sky would be FCS conferences.

Summit - UND, NDSU, Denver*, Omaha*, USD, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, Northern Colorado (plus the 5 MVFC schools for football only)

Big Sky - EWU, Idaho*, Idaho State, Weber State, SUU, NAU, Portland State, Sacramento State (plus UC Davis and Cal Poly for football only)

The Big Sky could negotiate a long-term scheduling agreement where the schools that left commit to a certain number of Big Sky opponents annually-that guarantees teams still get a home football game against Montana every now and then.

UNA already wants in the OVC and is a top D-II school, so the timing would have to be right. Meaning Belmont goes to the MVC and at the same time the Summit gets HL invites thus killing the Summit. otherwise UNA will probably fill the hole.

Not sure the summit will have enough time to move someone up

(03-10-2013 04:05 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Other than basketball, Belmont doesn't bring much to the table in regards to all-sports strength in the MVC. North Dakota St and South Dakota St are way stronger across the board and have much more future growth. If we need a private school in the region then Valparaiso would make the most sense.

I kind of hear you on this point because there isn't enough private schools in the MVC footprint (Detroit, Valpo, Loyola, Belmont??, Oral Roberts) to sustain a solid D1 basketball conference.

The Missouri River runs through North and South Dakota so its a perfect landing spot really for the Dakota schools. I could see where it might make sense for the MVC to add North Dakota State due to being more of a "name" school that the South Dakota schools.

Having North Dakota St, Illinois St and Missouri St in the conference is a solid footprint. That places more pressure on Denver to join the MVC without a North Dakota school in the Summit, possibly as a replacement for Evansville.

Denver
North Dakota St.
Wichita St.
Missouri St.
Drake
Northern Iowa
Illinois St.
Bradley
Southern Illinois
Indiana St.

In the context of Denver, NDSU is a solid addition to the MVC. Moving the MVC alignment West expedites Evansville's departure (good fit for the OVC) and has Indiana State thinking twice about the Horizon.

(03-10-2013 08:33 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 01:45 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  Either way, killing the Summit is a problem for the football members of the MVC. I'm pretty sure that will factor in on who they vote to add to the MVC.

The eastern MVFC schools did not want NDSU in the conference because that game requires a flight instead of a bus ride. The way NDSU got in is by agreeing to a schedule where schools like Indiana St do not have to travel to Fargo much.

If the Summit dissolves, the Summit football schools would likely be forced to move the olympic sports into the WAC (but not for football obviously). The schools with dual MVFC/Summit membership would change to MVFC/WAC members. Youngstown St has a MVFC/Horizon membership. YSU's Horizon membership is irrelevant to the MVFC.

Completely and totally wrong. When NDSU joined the MVFC every team played each other. Not sure what would happen if the Summit dissolved, I'd guess NDSU would try to get into the Big Sky at that point.

The concern over adding NDSU was that some schools didn't want to add another strong program to the league. Travel concerns played a role when USD was admitted.

There you go again rewriting history.

NDSU barely had votes to get in - only by the insistence of SDSU did NDSU get in - because there were concerns about air travel costs and because NDSU was seen as a high risk to want in the Big Sky. Therefore, the MVFC slapped much higher exit fees on NDSU (and SDSU) then other schools. Look it up to refresh your mind.

(03-10-2013 06:14 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  I really don't think the WAC will invite a bunch of Summit football schools. Doubt that will be an option for them. I'm fine with it, I guess, if you want to have basically a Summit division and a WAC division, but I don't think there is much appetite for a bunch of trips to the frozen tundra. It depends on if Chicago St, UTPA, and UMKC want to play in North and South Dakota, or at Phoenix, Salt Lake, and Seattle.

Dug would take NDSU into the Big Sky. No way a FCS football first league like the BSC passes up on them. Not sure what the others would do.

The problem with the Summit is that the 3 Dakota schools (small markets, don't help recruiting) make it unattractive for expansion (SIUE, NKU rejected offers straight from DII). The Summit needed a Minnesota DII to move up to make it more attractive, but that's too late now.

The WAC is less a geographically cohesive conference than the Big Sky that needs full members, especially with Idaho departing and NMSU likely gone too. Moreover, the Big Sky was burned by the South Dakota Board or Regents once - SD schools have made it clear they prefer something other than the Big Sky. Why relive that again? Adding 3 more Dakota schools to the Big Sky would cause a lot of consternation among the western 11. Moreover, UNC didn't have a natural travel partner that didn't break up better travel partners until UND came aboard.

D-I transition is four years; the grace period under the current rules is two years. Right now the Atlantic 10 and Horizon hold the Summit's life in its hands. If the Atlantic 10 reloads from the Horizon, the Horizon will reload from the Summit, and the Summit will go the way of the Great West.

Both the Summit League and The Horizon League are already on the clock as well to add another baseball-playing member. (Omaha doesn't count yet) Belmont works there for the Horizon as well. If the Horizon goes down to five schools, it may merge with the Summit:

Detroit, Valparaiso, Loyola (IL), Cleveland State to A-10

Oakland (MI)
Youngstown State
Wright State
IUPUI
IPFW
Green Bay
Milwaukee
WIU
UIC
Denver
South Dakota
South Dakota State
North Dakota State
Omaha

(03-10-2013 08:50 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  In the context of Denver, NDSU is a solid addition to the MVC. Moving the MVC alignment West expedites Evansville's departure (good fit for the OVC) and has Indiana State thinking twice about the Horizon.

Not sure of the basis of this statement. Denver and North Dakota are hated rivals in hockey. Denver hasn't had a rivalry of any kind with NDSU.

Not going to read through 6 pages, so here is my take on this...

It could be the beginning of the collapse of the MVC. Elgin has not shown me that he's capable of being proactive in making any decisions. He sat on his hands for way too long and now the whole conference may pay the price. You can't lose your #1 and replace it with some of the mentioned schools, you just cant. Then you factor in the unknowables right now (Could Evansville be leaving? Illinois State? MO State?) and it's a bad situation.

That said, Belmont would be my top choice. Good market in Nashville and pretty solid programs all around.

(03-10-2013 08:36 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:31 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:18 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  WIU would likely push for Ohio Valley if the OVC loses Belmont-with EIU already in the conference, this obviously works from a geography standpoint.

Assuming all of IUPUI, IPFW, and Oakland have departed, the remaining five have limited options. The Big Sky would probably be best served by a "soft merger" with the Summit. The Big Sky would essentially split so that both the Summit and Big Sky would be FCS conferences.

Summit - UND, NDSU, Denver*, Omaha*, USD, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, Northern Colorado (plus the 5 MVFC schools for football only)

Big Sky - EWU, Idaho*, Idaho State, Weber State, SUU, NAU, Portland State, Sacramento State (plus UC Davis and Cal Poly for football only)

The Big Sky could negotiate a long-term scheduling agreement where the schools that left commit to a certain number of Big Sky opponents annually-that guarantees teams still get a home football game against Montana every now and then.

UNA already wants in the OVC and is a top D-II school, so the timing would have to be right. Meaning Belmont goes to the MVC and at the same time the Summit gets HL invites thus killing the Summit. otherwise UNA will probably fill the hole.

Not sure the summit will have enough time to move someone up

Yeah, I know, I'm talking about the timing of a Belmont move to the MVC followed by HL moving on the Summit at the same time. If not then WIU won't feel compelled to jump, and the OVC would take UNA who has been waiting for the OVC invite for over a year.

Sorry, gotcha.

(03-10-2013 09:38 PM)MSUBear42 Wrote:  Not going to read through 6 pages, so here is my take on this...

It could be the beginning of the collapse of the MVC. Elgin has not shown me that he's capable of being proactive in making any decisions. He sat on his hands for way too long and now the whole conference may pay the price. You can't lose your #1 and replace it with some of the mentioned schools, you just cant. Then you factor in the unknowables right now (Could Evansville be leaving? Illinois State? MO State?) and it's a bad situation.

That said, Belmont would be my top choice. Good market in Nashville and pretty solid programs all around.

There are school in the Summit, Horizon, OVC, Southland etc that would jump immediately to the MVC. The MVC is in no danger, but its RPI could drop. The MVC can't replace Creighton any more than the Big 12 could replace Nebraska, Tex A&M, and Missouri.

(03-10-2013 09:54 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:36 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:31 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:18 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  WIU would likely push for Ohio Valley if the OVC loses Belmont-with EIU already in the conference, this obviously works from a geography standpoint.

Assuming all of IUPUI, IPFW, and Oakland have departed, the remaining five have limited options. The Big Sky would probably be best served by a "soft merger" with the Summit. The Big Sky would essentially split so that both the Summit and Big Sky would be FCS conferences.

Summit - UND, NDSU, Denver*, Omaha*, USD, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, Northern Colorado (plus the 5 MVFC schools for football only)

Big Sky - EWU, Idaho*, Idaho State, Weber State, SUU, NAU, Portland State, Sacramento State (plus UC Davis and Cal Poly for football only)

The Big Sky could negotiate a long-term scheduling agreement where the schools that left commit to a certain number of Big Sky opponents annually-that guarantees teams still get a home football game against Montana every now and then.

UNA already wants in the OVC and is a top D-II school, so the timing would have to be right. Meaning Belmont goes to the MVC and at the same time the Summit gets HL invites thus killing the Summit. otherwise UNA will probably fill the hole.

Not sure the summit will have enough time to move someone up

Yeah, I know, I'm talking about the timing of a Belmont move to the MVC followed by HL moving on the Summit at the same time. If not then WIU won't feel compelled to jump, and the OVC would take UNA who has been waiting for the OVC invite for over a year.

There's a number of schools to the east and south that may want in the OVC (UTC, Kennesaw St, ETSU) that UNA may never get a shot to replace Belmont.