Its no more preposterous than claiming Ga State has a share of the Atlanta media market.

32000+ students, and Ga St cant get 1/4 of them to show up for a game. Why would Atlanta watch Ga St football on TV when your own students avoid it like the plague?

(10-03-2012 12:47 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 12:39 PM)LifetimeTopper Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 10:26 AM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 10:11 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Nobody is going to watch CUSA football just because it is in their "market". If the product is not good then nothing else matters.

Actually, people are far more likely to watch it if they have a connection to the school, and geography is a "connection".

However, the more important truth is that nobody outside of their markets are going to watch CUSA/Sun Belt football, regardless of how good it is.

(10-03-2012 12:35 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Well, if you go back really far and look at the teams that we have played and how well historically we have done since the inception of football you could draw conclusions from that also.

You would see that we normally hold a 2 wins for every loss against teams like East Carolina and Marshall over the years. When you look at that and just count the wins and losses during periods of history when the scholarships were roughly the same, App State does even better.

There is a reason that recently App State was only one Division 1 win short of Boise State's winning percentage over the last six years, and historically there is even more documentation to establish why someone could conclude that App would do well in the FBS. Will we, who knows, but there are certainly some fans of other teams believe that when we do go FBS that we will be a force to be reconded with from what they have said on their boards.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think this argument revolves around the success that App and GaSo would or would not have on the field in the SBC. My understanding is that the argument for or against App has to do with what they would bring to the table for the Belt (hence the whole TV market discussion), versus the drawbacks of adding them.

Doubt you think for an instant that the nBE invited Boise State for their massive metropolis or their area of the country to pull fans in from Idaho.

"If you build it....they will come."
"If you win....they will watch."

Exactly. They didn't do it because they have a lot of alumni either. You could put a team in Hong Kong but that doesn't mean people are going to tune in.

(10-03-2012 04:17 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  Its no more preposterous than claiming Ga State has a share of the Atlanta media market.

32000+ students, and Ga St cant get 1/4 of them to show up for a game. Why would Atlanta watch Ga St football on TV when your own students avoid it like the plague?

Sure it is. GSU does have a share of the media market - it is a small share right now, but it will grow.

Gotta love how you support a statement about media market share with an argument about student attendance. That must be "appy logic" at work, huh?

(Oh, and please show me an FBS team that has 1/4 of its students show up at games........)

We have had some very good student turnouts, just not when we are losing. However, even when losing we have more students at our games than you have people who give a rats arse about Appy because they visited Boone once.

I'm still laughing over that - its like saying that NGC&SU would have fans because people like to visit Dahlonega (which is far an away a bigger tourist destination than Boone). Wacko-rama.

(10-03-2012 04:28 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  We have had some very good student turnouts, just not when we are losing.

Oh, so they only show up when you guys play D2 opponents then? Thats odd.

(10-03-2012 04:37 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 04:28 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  We have had some very good student turnouts, just not when we are losing.

Oh, so they only show up when you guys play D2 opponents then? Thats odd.

No, we lose to those guys too.

Hint: Getting me riled up by insulting our current level of on-field performance won't work - ther eis probably little that you could say that I wouldn't agree with.

(10-03-2012 04:47 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  No, we lose to those guys too.

Hint: Getting me riled up by insulting our current level of on-field performance won't work - ther eis probably little that you could say that I wouldn't agree with.

Good. Good place to end our discussion then, in agreement.

(10-03-2012 03:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  This is the same treatment Charlotte fans got from App St fans. They're pi$$ed (probably rightfully so) that everything seems to revolve around large markets now. Typical banter started with legitimate arguments citing program successes but quickly devolved into name calling, insulting the opposing fan's city, etc., etc., etc. ECU fans went through the same cycle with large market fans that moved ahead of us when we were more deserving.

The REAL ISSUE is that a myopic perspective on FCS vs FBS doomed App State. They waited way too long to even pretend they were serious. Now they're depending on one conference to call them up as they no longer have the option of moving up on their own AND they have no market. It's a pretty crappy situation App State & GA Southern are in right now.

I've said it several times now, they deserved a move up much more so than Charlotte, however "deserved" has got nothing to do with it.

This.

Debates with GA St. fans typically start by comparing achievements like wins, fans in the seats, and donations, but they know this is a losing debate for them.

(10-03-2012 05:28 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 03:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  This is the same treatment Charlotte fans got from App St fans. They're pi$$ed (probably rightfully so) that everything seems to revolve around large markets now. Typical banter started with legitimate arguments citing program successes but quickly devolved into name calling, insulting the opposing fan's city, etc., etc., etc. ECU fans went through the same cycle with large market fans that moved ahead of us when we were more deserving.

The REAL ISSUE is that a myopic perspective on FCS vs FBS doomed App State. They waited way too long to even pretend they were serious. Now they're depending on one conference to call them up as they no longer have the option of moving up on their own AND they have no market. It's a pretty crappy situation App State & GA Southern are in right now.

I've said it several times now, they deserved a move up much more so than Charlotte, however "deserved" has got nothing to do with it.

This.

Debates with GA St. fans typically start by comparing achievements like wins, fans in the seats, and donations, but they know this is a losing debate for them.

Yeah because that's what happened here...

(10-03-2012 04:47 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 04:37 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 04:28 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  We have had some very good student turnouts, just not when we are losing.

Oh, so they only show up when you guys play D2 opponents then? Thats odd.

No, we lose to those guys too.

Hint: Getting me riled up by insulting our current level of on-field performance won't work - ther eis probably little that you could say that I wouldn't agree with.

Amen brotha.

They dont know that we're the zombies from I Am Legend. Desparate and nothing to lose

(10-03-2012 07:16 PM)panama Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 05:28 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 03:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  This is the same treatment Charlotte fans got from App St fans. They're pi$$ed (probably rightfully so) that everything seems to revolve around large markets now. Typical banter started with legitimate arguments citing program successes but quickly devolved into name calling, insulting the opposing fan's city, etc., etc., etc. ECU fans went through the same cycle with large market fans that moved ahead of us when we were more deserving.

The REAL ISSUE is that a myopic perspective on FCS vs FBS doomed App State. They waited way too long to even pretend they were serious. Now they're depending on one conference to call them up as they no longer have the option of moving up on their own AND they have no market. It's a pretty crappy situation App State & GA Southern are in right now.

I've said it several times now, they deserved a move up much more so than Charlotte, however "deserved" has got nothing to do with it.

This.

Debates with GA St. fans typically start by comparing achievements like wins, fans in the seats, and donations, but they know this is a losing debate for them.

Yeah because that's what happened here...

Yeah, don't think you got what he was saying... Ga So may have deserved it more or Appy did too but GSU got it.

Oh he gets it just too proud to admit it.

This argument is stupid and Saint...you're still wrong.

If you don't think Georgia State's on field product will improve, if you don't think their attendance will improve, if you don't think their market share will improve, you just don't get it.

The television networks would be crazy to take Georgia State over App State today, but again, it's not the numbers they're putting out today that has their attention, it's their potential they're drooling over. Is that fair? No, but it is what it is. And again, if Georgia State can capture 1% of the entire metro Atlanta area, that's nearly triple the entire population of Boone. This isn't that hard to figure out.

Wow! Sure glad I was busy most of the day and didn't watch those posts going through.
Really wish some of you would quit taking off from work and going to those bars with computers.
What are you trying to do? See who can tick someone else off the most?

Let's all chill out.

MT of course GA St. will improve, great prediction. They certainly can't get any worse.

Let's talk numbers: 1% of ATL, stop it that is a pipe dream, last home game they got 0.15%.

UAB without the solid basketball program is what you have in GA St. The Belt got a location not a market with that add.

If they are who I predict they are the Belt will enjoy them for a long time, if they are successful the Belt will be renting them. There is no way this turns into a successful long-term partnership. Look at what happening in CUSA this last round and listen to the ECU and Southern Miss fans. That my friend is the reality of the situation.

(10-03-2012 05:28 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 03:20 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  This is the same treatment Charlotte fans got from App St fans. They're pi$$ed (probably rightfully so) that everything seems to revolve around large markets now. Typical banter started with legitimate arguments citing program successes but quickly devolved into name calling, insulting the opposing fan's city, etc., etc., etc. ECU fans went through the same cycle with large market fans that moved ahead of us when we were more deserving.

The REAL ISSUE is that a myopic perspective on FCS vs FBS doomed App State. They waited way too long to even pretend they were serious. Now they're depending on one conference to call them up as they no longer have the option of moving up on their own AND they have no market. It's a pretty crappy situation App State & GA Southern are in right now.

I've said it several times now, they deserved a move up much more so than Charlotte, however "deserved" has got nothing to do with it.

This.

Debates with GA St. fans typically start by comparing achievements like wins, fans in the seats, and donations, but they know this is a losing debate for them.

I think you kind of missed my point. Why debate anything? Is Benson posting in here?

You're wasting your time here with the peepee matches. Nobody cares how good App St/GA So was at the FCS level other than App St/GA So fans. Nobody cares about any of the things you're trying to "sell" about the merits of App St mostly because nobody here has anything to do with the decision making.

Being "mad" & baiting large market fans into arguments is flat out ridiculous. We went through the same thing in the Big East raid of CUSA parts 1 and 2. I HATE the fact that they passed us by.... twice. We got USF'd and then UCF'd as I like to put it. We've NEVER played football at the D1AA/FCS level yet more than likely ECU is stuck right where we are barring a minor miracle. In fact, I hate the fact that Charlotte started a football program, absolutely hate it and we're already FBS. You don't think they're going to affect us somewhat too??? ODU will affect us a little but I think they've got a MUCH better chance of fielding a competetive team and they've already got a legitimate football fanbase. I'd have to assume GA So hates that GA St started football as well.

The bottom line is that it all goes back to App State's myopic vision of college football. ECU went through hell and back to get where we are today: 5 home game seasons at times, frequently a BCS schools' homecoming game, fighting the ACC media and the "Little 4" in NC the whole way, etc. There was a time App could've built the program the same way but they simply waited too long. I'm not saying moving up won't happen but it's definately a longshot at this point.

I honestly don't know why you want to move up at this point anyway. The way the system is rigged is all a big joke.

(10-04-2012 07:41 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  I honestly don't know why you want to move up at this point anyway. The way the system is rigged is all a big joke.

Thank you for your well thought out post.

I do have one question about the last sentence though. I do not agree with this one sentence and I will give you one reason why. EVERY fan base that has moved up from FCS to FBS, and i've asked a few of them, have all unanimously agreed that they would not go back if given the opportunity.

I agree that the BCS system is rigged but to compete in the FBS level with equal scholarships and we might have beaten Alabama last year. We might have beaten ECU in any of the three games in the 80's. We may have beaten (I think #1) Florida State in the 4th quarter when we had the lead. We will never know what would have happened with the extra players on the field but I would not have these questions if we had equal rules.

There will no doubt be huge growing pains, but we are ready for a new challenge. There is nothing more we can accomplish at the FCS level.

(10-04-2012 07:37 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  MT of course GA St. will improve, great prediction. They certainly can't get any worse.

Let's talk numbers: 1% of ATL, stop it that is a pipe dream, last home game they got 0.15%.

UAB without the solid basketball program is what you have in GA St. The Belt got a location not a market with that add.

If they are who I predict they are the Belt will enjoy them for a long time, if they are successful the Belt will be renting them. There is no way this turns into a successful long-term partnership. Look at what happening in CUSA this last round and listen to the ECU and Southern Miss fans. That my friend is the reality of the situation.

Everybody except the SEC and its members is renting.

(10-03-2012 07:23 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  Yeah, don't think you got what he was saying... Ga So may have deserved it more or Appy did too but GSU got it.

"Deserve?" All three made their case, and we got the spot - "deserve" has nothing to do with it. Businesses don't enter into agreement with other parties they "deserve" it, they do it because they find it mutually beneficial. The Sun Belt presidents wanted us, they didn't want Appy or GaSo. THAT is all that matters.

(10-04-2012 09:06 AM)panama Wrote:  

(10-04-2012 07:37 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  MT of course GA St. will improve, great prediction. They certainly can't get any worse.

Let's talk numbers: 1% of ATL, stop it that is a pipe dream, last home game they got 0.15%.

UAB without the solid basketball program is what you have in GA St. The Belt got a location not a market with that add.

If they are who I predict they are the Belt will enjoy them for a long time, if they are successful the Belt will be renting them. There is no way this turns into a successful long-term partnership. Look at what happening in CUSA this last round and listen to the ECU and Southern Miss fans. That my friend is the reality of the situation.

Everybody except the SEC and its members is renting.

Add the ACC to that after their latest move. My point is if the Sun Belt had used a different formula than CUSA (location grab) the results long-term would be different. You can't use someone else's gameplan and expect different results. Adding GA St. is a lose-lose situation for the Belt. They continue to perform poorly, bad, perform up to what some see as their "potential" and they leave, worse, as the other members may have had a chance to move up.

(10-04-2012 07:37 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  MT of course GA St. will improve, great prediction. They certainly can't get any worse.

Let's talk numbers: 1% of ATL, stop it that is a pipe dream, last home game they got 0.15%.

UAB without the solid basketball program is what you have in GA St. The Belt got a location not a market with that add.

If they are who I predict they are the Belt will enjoy them for a long time, if they are successful the Belt will be renting them. There is no way this turns into a successful long-term partnership. Look at what happening in CUSA this last round and listen to the ECU and Southern Miss fans. That my friend is the reality of the situation.

1% a pipe dream? We're talking viewership not attendance.