(01-13-2024 09:50 AM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote: Please, a lot of MU fans have a lower interest level and don't follow basketball as closely as they use to; me included. A friend of mine, for example, drop 6 mid court season tickets he had since the Henderson Arena opened. Since we are now winning in conference play, I started to take a little closer look at the program. Yes we are winning, but the level of the schedule matters. As they say, the devil is in the details. Since I don't follow MU basketball like I use to, I giving info for MU fans like myself.
The NCAA uses these rankings to determine the quality of the schedule and use it to determine the seedlings to The Big Dance. If MU makes it to the post season, you need to know this material. Don't you want to go to The Big Dance? That should be the goal of the program, to make it to the post season and not one of the pay to play events. I am sorry if the facts of the rankings bother you, the information is factual. I guess it doesn't fit your agenda; whatever it is?
Your stated personal lack on interest is subjective. Tonight's game is nearly sold out. Last season we had our second highest season attendance of the 21st Century (only behind Elmore's senior season - also a D'Antoni season). We're positioned to finish this year similar to last year - completely selling out the back half of the conference schedule because... we're at the top of the standings again. Your lack of interest is not reflected by the remainder of the fanbase.
Since you don't follow Marshall like you used to, let me inform you that about 20 years ago, Marshall dropped "MU" as an abbreviation and identifier and asked to no longer use that as associated with our brand.
In 2012, we had an RPI of 38 - and we were not selected for the NCAA tournament. In 2018, we had a NET 120 spots higher than what you are saying we are today... and we were a 13-seed. Unless you strategically schedule like our men's soccer program and are capable of winning most of those games like our men's soccer program, then it honestly matters not. With our lack of Q1 teams even on the OOC schedule, the difference in 150 spots in the NET is being a 12-seed instead of a 14-seed. Until we sign the next homegrown OJ Mayo or get Bronny James to transfer in, our NET is not materially impacting our ability to make the NCAA tournament.
So, I'm going to enjoy Marshall's chase of a SBC regular season trophy. The team is interesting to watch. You could say that we should be striving to become the next Butler or Gonzaga, but until someone writes that check to add about $8 million to our basketball budget, we aren't the next Butler or Gonzaga. So until the day comes, I want a fun team that can compete for its conference title. We have that right now.
(01-12-2024 04:46 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote: FYI: The NET currently has Marshall at #187 and South Alabama at #259 out of the 362 teams in Division 1.
You're a broken record.
We're a one bid league. We know. NET means NOTHING.
Please, a lot of MU fans have a lower interest level and don't follow basketball as closely as they use to; me included. A friend of mine, for example, drop 6 mid court season tickets he had since the Henderson Arena opened. Since we are now winning in conference play, I started to take a little closer look at the program. Yes we are winning, but the level of the schedule matters. As they say, the devil is in the details. Since I don't follow MU basketball like I use to, I giving info for MU fans like myself.
The NCAA uses these rankings to determine the quality of the schedule and use it to determine the seedlings to The Big Dance. If MU makes it to the post season, you need to know this material. Don't you want to go to The Big Dance? That should be the goal of the program, to make it to the post season and not one of the pay to play events. I am sorry if the facts of the rankings bother you, the information is factual. I guess it doesn't fit your agenda; whatever it is?
Attendance says you speak for a small minority of fans. We all know our champ will be 13-15 seed depending on who wins. We've all watched the NCAA Tournament. We had 24 wins in CUSA a few years back and got a 13. Played and beat a team that had been ranked in the top 4 a big chunk of the season. Our league at that point had a streak of first round wins, but they kept seeding our champ in the same general spot. Heck we had a team in the top 25 going into the final game of the regular season, and they didn't make the tournament.
We are what we are. We will try to get better for certain but stop with the pompous act. It's old. You are more worried that you are "right" than the team wins. That's a ridiculous way to live.
(01-13-2024 09:50 AM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote: Please, a lot of MU fans have a lower interest level and don't follow basketball as closely as they use to; me included. A friend of mine, for example, drop 6 mid court season tickets he had since the Henderson Arena opened. Since we are now winning in conference play, I started to take a little closer look at the program. Yes we are winning, but the level of the schedule matters. As they say, the devil is in the details. Since I don't follow MU basketball like I use to, I giving info for MU fans like myself.
The NCAA uses these rankings to determine the quality of the schedule and use it to determine the seedlings to The Big Dance. If MU makes it to the post season, you need to know this material. Don't you want to go to The Big Dance? That should be the goal of the program, to make it to the post season and not one of the pay to play events. I am sorry if the facts of the rankings bother you, the information is factual. I guess it doesn't fit your agenda; whatever it is?
Your stated personal lack on interest is subjective. Tonight's game is nearly sold out. Last season we had our second highest season attendance of the 21st Century (only behind Elmore's senior season - also a D'Antoni season). We're positioned to finish this year similar to last year - completely selling out the back half of the conference schedule because... we're at the top of the standings again. Your lack of interest is not reflected by the remainder of the fanbase.
When the Cam was opened, it had a seating capacity of 10,705 and was filled to capacity many times. During the Greg White era the bleacher seats were removed and bowled in with permanent seats with a capacity of 9,048. A few year ago the tops sections were covered with tarps and seating was reduced to around 5,500 per a post on a message board. So now the bar has been lower nearly 50% for a sell out. I know several others including myself that have dropped season ticket amounting to around 16 seats.
Since you don't follow Marshall like you used to, let me inform you that about 20 years ago, Marshall dropped "MU" as an abbreviation and identifier and asked to no longer use that as associated with our brand.
Sorry, but us mature grads still refer to Marshall as MU. Is that a really important point?
In 2012, we had an RPI of 38 - and we were not selected for the NCAA tournament. In 2018, we had a NET 120 spots higher than what you are saying we are today... and we were a 13-seed. Unless you strategically schedule like our men's soccer program and are capable of winning most of those games like our men's soccer program, then it honestly matters not. With our lack of Q1 teams even on the OOC schedule, the difference in 150 spots in the NET is being a 12-seed instead of a 14-seed. Until we sign the next homegrown OJ Mayo or get Bronny James to transfer in, our NET is not materially impacting our ability to make the NCAA tournament.
You might want to look at the 2012 season where we finished second to Memphis and lost 3 games to them that season. We also lost to WVU on a neutral floor; lost to #3 Cuse on the road at the time and we beat Cinncy on the road in OT. We also played some really weak teams. You need to win the game against the power teams to get a bid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80...tball_team
I will disagree; scheduling good teams and having a high NET will be you into the Big Dance and will reflect your seeding. With a good NET, we could be a 9 seed, it happens, see the A10 seeds some years or even some years for MAC and Southern Conference members. By the way check the home attendence in the above link where every game was over 5,000 to a high of 7,000 during the 2012 season.
So, I'm going to enjoy Marshall's chase of a SBC regular season trophy. The team is interesting to watch. You could say that we should be striving to become the next Butler or Gonzaga, but until someone writes that check to add about $8 million to our basketball budget, we aren't the next Butler or Gonzaga. So until the day comes, I want a fun team that can compete for its conference title. We have that right now.
I am happy we are winning. I don't expect MU to turn into a NCAA power. I just wish MU would hire a good college coach and invest money in the program to be the best team in the SBC. No offense, but having a nearly 80 year old ex high school coach is not the best way to be a major player in the SBC. he is just a few games over .500 in nearly his 10 years of coaching and he is 0-16 against the big boys. Everyone knows the problems with the current coach, he doesn't recruit; bad game management and failures in roster management. I just want better for the programs. Low expectations lead to mediocre results which is what we have with the current coach.
Just look at last year. We were 23-6 and only had to win the last game of the season to clinch the SBC regular season title and a possible bid to the NIT. We lost that game and the championship. We were a 3 seed and lost the first game to a 11 seed. MU finished at 23-8 and a NET rank of 83. The team crashed and burned. Thank you Dan.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2024 12:37 PM by Flat Tire 2.)
(01-12-2024 04:46 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote: FYI: The NET currently has Marshall at #187 and South Alabama at #259 out of the 362 teams in Division 1.
You're a broken record.
We're a one bid league. We know. NET means NOTHING.
Please, a lot of MU fans have a lower interest level and don't follow basketball as closely as they use to; me included. A friend of mine, for example, drop 6 mid court season tickets he had since the Henderson Arena opened. Since we are now winning in conference play, I started to take a little closer look at the program. Yes we are winning, but the level of the schedule matters. As they say, the devil is in the details. Since I don't follow MU basketball like I use to, I giving info for MU fans like myself.
The NCAA uses these rankings to determine the quality of the schedule and use it to determine the seedlings to The Big Dance. If MU makes it to the post season, you need to know this material. Don't you want to go to The Big Dance? That should be the goal of the program, to make it to the post season and not one of the pay to play events. I am sorry if the facts of the rankings bother you, the information is factual. I guess it doesn't fit your agenda; whatever it is?
Attendance says you speak for a small minority of fans. We all know our champ will be 13-15 seed depending on who wins. We've all watched the NCAA Tournament. We had 24 wins in CUSA a few years back and got a 13. Played and beat a team that had been ranked in the top 4 a big chunk of the season. Our league at that point had a streak of first round wins, but they kept seeding our champ in the same general spot. Heck we had a team in the top 25 going into the final game of the regular season, and they didn't make the tournament.
We are what we are. We will try to get better for certain but stop with the pompous act. It's old. You are more worried that you are "right" than the team wins. That's a ridiculous way to live.
Well tell that to peer schools like Ohio U; Miami and Kent State that have made it to the Sweet Sixteen or even the Elite 8. FAU was 9 Seed last year. All you need is a good coach and players who is willing to schedule the major programs.
I wonder if you were around after the Plane Crash, I bet you would have been in the small group that wanted to drop football? We beat Notre Dame!
We crashed and burned last basketball season. Losing our final game and the regular season championship and then lost to a 11th seed in the SBC tournament. I guess you are satisfied?
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2024 12:36 PM by Flat Tire 2.)
Yea FAU did good last year, but I don't think it was because they played a hard SOS against power teams last year as people put it. They played 2 power teams and split it 1-1. The team they did beat had a losing record overall in basketball that year. So I don't see how anyone can point at that and say playing power teams at their place is going to help the Sun Belt get more teams in.
What did help FAU was CUSA being the strongest it had been in a while. It wasn't so much teams beating the big boys it was more teams beating the small fries. A rising tied raises all boats. Since NET is now offensive efficiency - defensive efficiency it really doesn't matter much who you play to get your NET ranking higher. You do want quality wins in the Quad 1. But, you need more Sun Belt teams being those quality teams not really your ooc schedule. Which is shown by FAU going 1-1 against such teams.
So a team in the Sun Belt going 0-13 against quality competition is going to be a poor team in the NET rankings regardless if they played the #1- #13 ranked teams in the nation. A team that played the bottom 13 teams in the nation ooc and beat them well could easily be a quad 1 team for Sun Belt play. Then during Sun Belt play teams in the Sun Belt could rack up their quad 1 wins playing each other. Rather than going out of conference where history shows playing at a power conference teams place is close to an auto loss. Less than 10% win chance. Just brings the entire conference down filling the schedule with such teams.
Now if they are willing to play h/h or in a tourney on a neutral court. That's a great time to play them. But, just as a buy game, no. Overall it's hurting the conference. Even if 1 team each year in the Belt does manage to win one.
(01-13-2024 12:54 PM)Eagleyed Wrote: Yea FAU did good last year, but I don't think it was because they played a hard SOS against power teams last year as people put it. They played 2 power teams and split it 1-1. The team they did beat had a losing record overall in basketball that year. So I don't see how anyone can point at that and say playing power teams at their place is going to help the Sun Belt get more teams in.
What did help FAU was CUSA being the strongest it had been in a while. It wasn't so much teams beating the big boys it was more teams beating the small fries. A rising tied raises all boats. Since NET is now offensive efficiency - defensive efficiency it really doesn't matter much who you play to get your NET ranking higher. You do want quality wins in the Quad 1. But, you need more Sun Belt teams being those quality teams not really your ooc schedule. Which is shown by FAU going 1-1 against such teams.
So a team in the Sun Belt going 0-13 against quality competition is going to be a poor team in the NET rankings regardless if they played the #1- #13 ranked teams in the nation. A team that played the bottom 13 teams in the nation ooc and beat them well could easily be a quad 1 team for Sun Belt play. Then during Sun Belt play teams in the Sun Belt could rack up their quad 1 wins playing each other. Rather than going out of conference where history shows playing at a power conference teams place is close to an auto loss. Less than 10% win chance. Just brings the entire conference down filling the schedule with such teams.
Now if they are willing to play h/h or in a tourney on a neutral court. That's a great time to play them. But, just as a buy game, no. Overall it's hurting the conference. Even if 1 team each year in the Belt does manage to win one.
Thanks, I really didn't check the FAU schedule. But you make a good points. Like you said, a strong conference raises the tide for the top teams. Michigan State is tied for last place in the B10 but has a NET of 26. If you are in a really weak conference like the SBC, I would think playing and winning against power teams is a good way to improve your NET. Look at JMU, with a NET of 46, I don't remember their NET rank before their lost but they will not be able to move the needle much due to the poor competition in the SBC. JMU will drop in the NET with loses to any SBC teams or if MSU crashes and burns. Anyway, that is my understanding of the NET.
I do know that in the past that the NCAA rewarded the lower level teams that went and played the big boys.
(01-13-2024 12:54 PM)Eagleyed Wrote: Yea FAU did good last year, but I don't think it was because they played a hard SOS against power teams last year as people put it. They played 2 power teams and split it 1-1. The team they did beat had a losing record overall in basketball that year. So I don't see how anyone can point at that and say playing power teams at their place is going to help the Sun Belt get more teams in.
What did help FAU was CUSA being the strongest it had been in a while. It wasn't so much teams beating the big boys it was more teams beating the small fries. A rising tied raises all boats. Since NET is now offensive efficiency - defensive efficiency it really doesn't matter much who you play to get your NET ranking higher. You do want quality wins in the Quad 1. But, you need more Sun Belt teams being those quality teams not really your ooc schedule. Which is shown by FAU going 1-1 against such teams.
So a team in the Sun Belt going 0-13 against quality competition is going to be a poor team in the NET rankings regardless if they played the #1- #13 ranked teams in the nation. A team that played the bottom 13 teams in the nation ooc and beat them well could easily be a quad 1 team for Sun Belt play. Then during Sun Belt play teams in the Sun Belt could rack up their quad 1 wins playing each other. Rather than going out of conference where history shows playing at a power conference teams place is close to an auto loss. Less than 10% win chance. Just brings the entire conference down filling the schedule with such teams.
Now if they are willing to play h/h or in a tourney on a neutral court. That's a great time to play them. But, just as a buy game, no. Overall it's hurting the conference. Even if 1 team each year in the Belt does manage to win one.
Thanks, I really didn't check the FAU schedule. But you make a good points. Like you said, a strong conference raises the tide for the top teams. Michigan State is tied for last place in the B10 but has a NET of 26. If you are in a really weak conference like the SBC, I would think playing and winning against power teams is a good way to improve your NET. Look at JMU, with a NET of 46, I don't remember their NET rank before their lost but they will not be able to move the needle much due to the poor competition in the SBC. JMU will drop in the NET with loses to any SBC teams or if MSU crashes and burns. Anyway, that is my understanding of the NET.
I do know that in the past that the NCAA rewarded the lower level teams that went and played the big boys.
JMU just jumped from 59 to 46 by boat racing South Alabama. As long as you blow out bad teams, it won't hurt your NET. Close games and loses (which will happen) are the killers.
(01-13-2024 12:54 PM)Eagleyed Wrote: Yea FAU did good last year, but I don't think it was because they played a hard SOS against power teams last year as people put it. They played 2 power teams and split it 1-1. The team they did beat had a losing record overall in basketball that year. So I don't see how anyone can point at that and say playing power teams at their place is going to help the Sun Belt get more teams in.
What did help FAU was CUSA being the strongest it had been in a while. It wasn't so much teams beating the big boys it was more teams beating the small fries. A rising tied raises all boats. Since NET is now offensive efficiency - defensive efficiency it really doesn't matter much who you play to get your NET ranking higher. You do want quality wins in the Quad 1. But, you need more Sun Belt teams being those quality teams not really your ooc schedule. Which is shown by FAU going 1-1 against such teams.
So a team in the Sun Belt going 0-13 against quality competition is going to be a poor team in the NET rankings regardless if they played the #1- #13 ranked teams in the nation. A team that played the bottom 13 teams in the nation ooc and beat them well could easily be a quad 1 team for Sun Belt play. Then during Sun Belt play teams in the Sun Belt could rack up their quad 1 wins playing each other. Rather than going out of conference where history shows playing at a power conference teams place is close to an auto loss. Less than 10% win chance. Just brings the entire conference down filling the schedule with such teams.
Now if they are willing to play h/h or in a tourney on a neutral court. That's a great time to play them. But, just as a buy game, no. Overall it's hurting the conference. Even if 1 team each year in the Belt does manage to win one.
Thanks, I really didn't check the FAU schedule. But you make a good points. Like you said, a strong conference raises the tide for the top teams. Michigan State is tied for last place in the B10 but has a NET of 26. If you are in a really weak conference like the SBC, I would think playing and winning against power teams is a good way to improve your NET. Look at JMU, with a NET of 46, I don't remember their NET rank before their lost but they will not be able to move the needle much due to the poor competition in the SBC. JMU will drop in the NET with loses to any SBC teams or if MSU crashes and burns. Anyway, that is my understanding of the NET.
I do know that in the past that the NCAA rewarded the lower level teams that went and played the big boys.
Michigan State mopped the floor against weak opponents which really helped their NET. It's like USM last year. We had a NET in the 20's coming into conference play. We didn't go on the road playing a bunch of big boys to get it though. We beat a decent Vanderbilt on the road and that's it. A Vanderbilt team that didn't make it to the NCAA tourney.
The examples of FAU, USM, and this year Princeton (NET 27 currently) show that. Princeton has played exactly zero big boys on the road.
I'm not sure if I can actually think of an example of a school playing several power conference away games and having a top 50 NET. I can think of many that played 2 or fewer though having top 50 over the past few years.
Playing on the road is just hard. There is a reason why the power conferences pretty much play their entire out of conference schedule at home and then have a neutral site tourney. It helps out their NET. Then they can beat each other up in conference after they raised their NET out of conference. But, they certainly didn't get it by playing big name teams on the road, and they don't buy them to come to their place either. They just beat up on the little guys at home to pump their rankings up and hope they can win a neutral site game or 2 against the other power teams.
NET just does not reward teams enough to go play at power conference schools to make it worth it in my opinion. We need to do like the Mountain West does and start buying more teams to come play at our arenas.
(01-12-2024 04:46 PM)Flat Tire 2 Wrote: FYI: The NET currently has Marshall at #187 and South Alabama at #259 out of the 362 teams in Division 1.
You're a broken record.
We're a one bid league. We know. NET means NOTHING.
Please, a lot of MU fans have a lower interest level and don't follow basketball as closely as they use to; me included. A friend of mine, for example, drop 6 mid court season tickets he had since the Henderson Arena opened. Since we are now winning in conference play, I started to take a little closer look at the program. Yes we are winning, but the level of the schedule matters. As they say, the devil is in the details. Since I don't follow MU basketball like I use to, I giving info for MU fans like myself.
The NCAA uses these rankings to determine the quality of the schedule and use it to determine the seedlings to The Big Dance. If MU makes it to the post season, you need to know this material. Don't you want to go to The Big Dance? That should be the goal of the program, to make it to the post season and not one of the pay to play events. I am sorry if the facts of the rankings bother you, the information is factual. I guess it doesn't fit your agenda; whatever it is?
Attendance says you speak for a small minority of fans. We all know our champ will be 13-15 seed depending on who wins. We've all watched the NCAA Tournament. We had 24 wins in CUSA a few years back and got a 13. Played and beat a team that had been ranked in the top 4 a big chunk of the season. Our league at that point had a streak of first round wins, but they kept seeding our champ in the same general spot. Heck we had a team in the top 25 going into the final game of the regular season, and they didn't make the tournament.
We are what we are. We will try to get better for certain but stop with the pompous act. It's old. You are more worried that you are "right" than the team wins. That's a ridiculous way to live.
Well tell that to peer schools like Ohio U; Miami and Kent State that have made it to the Sweet Sixteen or even the Elite 8. FAU was 9 Seed last year. All you need is a good coach and players who is willing to schedule the major programs.
I wonder if you were around after the Plane Crash, I bet you would have been in the small group that wanted to drop football? We beat Notre Dame!
We crashed and burned last basketball season. Losing our final game and the regular season championship and then lost to a 11th seed in the SBC tournament. I guess you are satisfied?
I wasn't around for several years after 1970 but I would never advocate for not playing football.
Also FWIW, I'm at a high school basketball game right now (2:50 p.m.) between teams that wear red/black vs blue/gold. Probably half the people here are wearing green because they're going to the game immediately afterward. That's kinda unusual where I happen to be right now.
(01-13-2024 12:54 PM)Eagleyed Wrote: Yea FAU did good last year, but I don't think it was because they played a hard SOS against power teams last year as people put it. They played 2 power teams and split it 1-1. The team they did beat had a losing record overall in basketball that year. So I don't see how anyone can point at that and say playing power teams at their place is going to help the Sun Belt get more teams in.
What did help FAU was CUSA being the strongest it had been in a while. It wasn't so much teams beating the big boys it was more teams beating the small fries. A rising tied raises all boats. Since NET is now offensive efficiency - defensive efficiency it really doesn't matter much who you play to get your NET ranking higher. You do want quality wins in the Quad 1. But, you need more Sun Belt teams being those quality teams not really your ooc schedule. Which is shown by FAU going 1-1 against such teams.
So a team in the Sun Belt going 0-13 against quality competition is going to be a poor team in the NET rankings regardless if they played the #1- #13 ranked teams in the nation. A team that played the bottom 13 teams in the nation ooc and beat them well could easily be a quad 1 team for Sun Belt play. Then during Sun Belt play teams in the Sun Belt could rack up their quad 1 wins playing each other. Rather than going out of conference where history shows playing at a power conference teams place is close to an auto loss. Less than 10% win chance. Just brings the entire conference down filling the schedule with such teams.
Now if they are willing to play h/h or in a tourney on a neutral court. That's a great time to play them. But, just as a buy game, no. Overall it's hurting the conference. Even if 1 team each year in the Belt does manage to win one.
Thanks, I really didn't check the FAU schedule. But you make a good points. Like you said, a strong conference raises the tide for the top teams. Michigan State is tied for last place in the B10 but has a NET of 26. If you are in a really weak conference like the SBC, I would think playing and winning against power teams is a good way to improve your NET. Look at JMU, with a NET of 46, I don't remember their NET rank before their lost but they will not be able to move the needle much due to the poor competition in the SBC. JMU will drop in the NET with loses to any SBC teams or if MSU crashes and burns. Anyway, that is my understanding of the NET.
I do know that in the past that the NCAA rewarded the lower level teams that went and played the big boys.
Michigan State mopped the floor against weak opponents which really helped their NET. It's like USM last year. We had a NET in the 20's coming into conference play. We didn't go on the road playing a bunch of big boys to get it though. We beat a decent Vanderbilt on the road and that's it. A Vanderbilt team that didn't make it to the NCAA tourney.
The examples of FAU, USM, and this year Princeton (NET 27 currently) show that. Princeton has played exactly zero big boys on the road.
I'm not sure if I can actually think of an example of a school playing several power conference away games and having a top 50 NET. I can think of many that played 2 or fewer though having top 50 over the past few years.
Playing on the road is just hard. There is a reason why the power conferences pretty much play their entire out of conference schedule at home and then have a neutral site tourney. It helps out their NET. Then they can beat each other up in conference after they raised their NET out of conference. But, they certainly didn't get it by playing big name teams on the road, and they don't buy them to come to their place either. They just beat up on the little guys at home to pump their rankings up and hope they can win a neutral site game or 2 against the other power teams.
NET just does not reward teams enough to go play at power conference schools to make it worth it in my opinion. We need to do like the Mountain West does and start buying more teams to come play at our arenas.
Yes, buy games are the road to a multi-bid conference. The conference already knows it but there are schools not willing to make the investment. Only really the CUSA 3 + JMU can afford to buy that many games since ticket sales matter in this context.
(01-13-2024 04:39 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote: I can’t figure out the Marshall PBP guy pronouncing Samuel Tabe’s last name as “Too-bay.” There is no ‘U’ in his name.
Crowley or Cro-lee ... we have one of those, too...
/
Men's Basketball Week of Jan 10th -13th
