I am just excited we don't have to endure another year of Pastner. How about we let Tubby coach a little before we set the place on fire? Geez us h, I mean, come on.

(08-23-2016 11:52 AM)450bench Wrote:  I am just excited we don't have to endure another year of Pastner. How about we let Tubby coach a little before we set the place on fire? Geez us h, I mean, come on.

I was more taking a shot at Geoff, but whatevs man...it's still the offseason better than reading another tigerscane guarantee I guess.

Some need to check their under pants. Either too tight or dirty. Otherwise they wouldn't ***** so much about nothing.

(08-23-2016 11:56 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  Some need to check their under pants. Either too tight or dirty. Otherwise they wouldn't ***** so much about nothing.

Oh wow

I am becoming enlightened as to why btiger does what he does. This is fun. And predictable.

wow, so the people who always complain are already complaining. Shocker.

Going to the tourney while coaching TTU is winning, I don't care what the record is...........to say otherwise is just another ignoring reality. Whine, whine whine & we haven't even played the first game of the Tubby era.

(08-23-2016 12:23 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Going to the tourney while coaching TTU is winning, I don't care what the record is...........to say otherwise is just another ignoring reality. Whine, whine whine & we haven't even played the first game of the Tubby era.

Whatever makes you feel good, amigo.

Tubby's overall and league records are below .500 while at TT. I don't see how pointing that out is "whining" but okay. Some of us have different definitions of "winning" than others. It's not a big deal.

Heck, Tic Price won 20 games and went to the NCAA Tournament at McNeese State...guess he "won" there?

(08-23-2016 11:51 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 11:41 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Tubby may win a national championship here or he may be average and get canned, but to say he has not been a winner everywhere he has gone makes you look stupid. Even more so than normal.

Tubby Smith's record at Texas Tech was 46-50 overall and 18-36 in the Big 12.

What bizarro world am I living in?

I think you've got the right idea, but I will qualify the Texas Tech situation a bit, the previous years prior to Tubby were:

Pat Knight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Knight

2008–09 Texas Tech 14–19 3–13 11th
2009–10 Texas Tech 19–16 4–12 T–9th NIT Quarterfinals
2010–11 Texas Tech 13–19 5–11 T–10th

Billy G: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Gillispie

2011–12 Texas Tech 8–23 1–17 10th

Then Tubby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubby_Smith

2013–14 Texas Tech 14–18 6–12 9th
2014–15 Texas Tech 13–19 3–15 10th
2015–16 Texas Tech 19–13 9–9 7th NCAA First Round

>>>

So, it was a huge rebuild and took a little bit. Not actually that dissimilar to our situation in regards to how far below expectations we have been for a few years now.

You are 100% correct that Tubby was not a winner technically at TT, but he did right the ship at TT and he did win everywhere else.

Call it you're right on the facts, but the concept mostly holds if you curve the TT situation?

>>>

It doesn't really matter, the concerns with Tubby are not that he's performed well at all stops (he did), but rather how much is left in the tank of a 65 year old veteran who hasn't recruited that hard out of the box.

I'm willing to give a legit HOF coach like Tubby some rope, but I'd be more confident if were hiring the Tubby that UK or Minny let go. Wonder about tire tread, not resume or quality at peak.

Just my $0.02, your mileage may vary.

(08-23-2016 12:02 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 11:56 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  Some need to check their under pants. Either too tight or dirty. Otherwise they wouldn't ***** so much about nothing.

Oh wow

You checked?

(08-23-2016 12:26 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 11:51 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 11:41 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Tubby may win a national championship here or he may be average and get canned, but to say he has not been a winner everywhere he has gone makes you look stupid. Even more so than normal.

Tubby Smith's record at Texas Tech was 46-50 overall and 18-36 in the Big 12.

What bizarro world am I living in?

I think you've got the right idea, but I will qualify the Texas Tech situation a bit, the previous years prior to Tubby were:

Pat Knight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Knight

2008–09 Texas Tech 14–19 3–13 11th
2009–10 Texas Tech 19–16 4–12 T–9th NIT Quarterfinals
2010–11 Texas Tech 13–19 5–11 T–10th

Billy G: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Gillispie

2011–12 Texas Tech 8–23 1–17 10th

Then Tubby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubby_Smith

2013–14 Texas Tech 14–18 6–12 9th
2014–15 Texas Tech 13–19 3–15 10th
2015–16 Texas Tech 19–13 9–9 7th NCAA First Round

>>>

So, it was a huge rebuild and took a little bit. Not actually that dissimilar to our situation in regards to how far below expectations we have been for a few years now.

You are 100% correct that Tubby was not a winner technically at TT, but he did right the ship at TT and he did win everywhere else.

Call it you're right on the facts, but the concept mostly holds if you curve the TT situation?

>>>

It doesn't really matter, the concerns with Tubby are not that he's performed well at all stops (he did), but rather how much is left in the tank of a 65 year old veteran who hasn't recruited that hard out of the box.

I'm willing to give a legit HOF coach like Tubby some rope, but I'd be more confident if were hiring the Tubby that UK or Minny let go. Wonder about tire tread, not resume or quality at peak.

Just my $0.02, your mileage may vary.

Not trashing Tubby but it was a joke that they got in the NCAA last year

P5 bias at its best

(08-23-2016 12:25 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:23 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Going to the tourney while coaching TTU is winning, I don't care what the record is...........to say otherwise is just another ignoring reality. Whine, whine whine & we haven't even played the first game of the Tubby era.

Whatever makes you feel good, amigo.

Tubby's overall and league records are below .500 while at TT. I don't see how pointing that out is "whining" but okay. Some of us have different definitions of "winning" than others. It's not a big deal.

Heck, Tic Price won 20 games and went to the NCAA Tournament at McNeese State...guess he "won" there?

But he didn't do it at TTU in the B12, that's the point - but you know that already but why let reality get in the way of a good rant.

(08-23-2016 12:26 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 11:51 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 11:41 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Tubby may win a national championship here or he may be average and get canned, but to say he has not been a winner everywhere he has gone makes you look stupid. Even more so than normal.

Tubby Smith's record at Texas Tech was 46-50 overall and 18-36 in the Big 12.

What bizarro world am I living in?

I think you've got the right idea, but I will qualify the Texas Tech situation a bit, the previous years prior to Tubby were:

Pat Knight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Knight

2008–09 Texas Tech 14–19 3–13 11th
2009–10 Texas Tech 19–16 4–12 T–9th NIT Quarterfinals
2010–11 Texas Tech 13–19 5–11 T–10th

Billy G: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Gillispie

2011–12 Texas Tech 8–23 1–17 10th

Then Tubby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubby_Smith

2013–14 Texas Tech 14–18 6–12 9th
2014–15 Texas Tech 13–19 3–15 10th
2015–16 Texas Tech 19–13 9–9 7th NCAA First Round

>>>

So, it was a huge rebuild and took a little bit. Not actually that dissimilar to our situation in regards to how far below expectations we have been for a few years now.

You are 100% correct that Tubby was not a winner technically at TT, but he did right the ship at TT and he did win everywhere else.

Call it you're right on the facts, but the concept mostly holds if you curve the TT situation?

>>>

It doesn't really matter, the concerns with Tubby are not that he's performed well at all stops (he did), but rather how much is left in the tank of a 65 year old veteran who hasn't recruited that hard out of the box.

I'm willing to give a legit HOF coach like Tubby some rope, but I'd be more confident if were hiring the Tubby that UK or Minny let go. Wonder about tire tread, not resume or quality at peak.

Just my $0.02, your mileage may vary.

I gotcha - my point was mainly with Geoff's contention that Tubby had "won everywhere"...we can project all we want...the simple fact at the end of the day is that he wasn't a winner at TT. It's right there in the final records and percentages.

Heck, his conference record at Minnesota was below .500 as well.

May surprise some, but I don't make up the rules...above .500 is winning and below .500 is not.

That's basically the same sporting rules we've all been living under for a few decades now.

(08-23-2016 12:29 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:25 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:23 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Going to the tourney while coaching TTU is winning, I don't care what the record is...........to say otherwise is just another ignoring reality. Whine, whine whine & we haven't even played the first game of the Tubby era.

Whatever makes you feel good, amigo.

Tubby's overall and league records are below .500 while at TT. I don't see how pointing that out is "whining" but okay. Some of us have different definitions of "winning" than others. It's not a big deal.

Heck, Tic Price won 20 games and went to the NCAA Tournament at McNeese State...guess he "won" there?

But he didn't do it at TTU in the B12, that's the point - but you know that already but why let reality get in the way of a good rant.

I'm not even sure what that means...he finished 9-9 in the league and 7th out of 10 teams...his other two seasons were losing records.

(08-23-2016 11:52 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  We are operating under the assumption than being above .500 is winning, correct?

Justin Fuente's record at Memphis after 3 seasons;
17-20 overall - 12-12 in conference
#Notawinner

Josh Pastner's record at Memphis after 3 seasons;
75-29 overall - 36-12 in conference
#Winner

Taking over a dump, record improving, in the NCAA by year three, and getting 7 figure raise from the AD constitutes someone winning to me. But I have the piss all over our coach before he even coaches his first game... Context matters...

(08-23-2016 12:25 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:23 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Going to the tourney while coaching TTU is winning, I don't care what the record is...........to say otherwise is just another ignoring reality. Whine, whine whine & we haven't even played the first game of the Tubby era.

Whatever makes you feel good, amigo.

Tubby's overall and league records are below .500 while at TT. I don't see how pointing that out is "whining" but okay. Some of us have different definitions of "winning" than others. It's not a big deal.

Heck, Tic Price won 20 games and went to the NCAA Tournament at McNeese State...guess he "won" there?

Actually, either metric above .500 or against expectations at school, you could make the case that Tic won there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic_Price

2001–02 McNeese State 21–9 17–3 1st NCAA First Round
2002–03 McNeese State 15–14 10–10 5th
2003–04 McNeese State 11–16 7–9 9th
2004–05 McNeese State 13–15 8–8 6th
2005–06 McNeese State 14–14 9–7 4th
McNeese State: 74–69 (.517) 41–37 (.526)

His replacement is at <.400 ball... over 9 years. McNeese isn't a power program with resources.

(and no, I'm not endorsing hiring Tic Price later )

(08-23-2016 12:31 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:25 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:23 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Going to the tourney while coaching TTU is winning, I don't care what the record is...........to say otherwise is just another ignoring reality. Whine, whine whine & we haven't even played the first game of the Tubby era.

Whatever makes you feel good, amigo.

Tubby's overall and league records are below .500 while at TT. I don't see how pointing that out is "whining" but okay. Some of us have different definitions of "winning" than others. It's not a big deal.

Heck, Tic Price won 20 games and went to the NCAA Tournament at McNeese State...guess he "won" there?

Actually, either metric above .500 or against expectations at school, you could make the case that Tic won there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic_Price

2001–02 McNeese State 21–9 17–3 1st NCAA First Round
2002–03 McNeese State 15–14 10–10 5th
2003–04 McNeese State 11–16 7–9 9th
2004–05 McNeese State 13–15 8–8 6th
2005–06 McNeese State 14–14 9–7 4th
McNeese State: 74–69 (.517) 41–37 (.526)

His replacement is at <.400 ball... over 9 years. McNeese isn't a power program with resources.

(and no, I'm not endorsing hiring Tic Price later )

Yep.

That one good season skewed the rest in reality.

He only had one more winning season 15-14.

The other three were losers more or less - unless 14-14 is a moral victory?

(08-23-2016 12:29 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:26 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 11:51 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 11:41 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Tubby may win a national championship here or he may be average and get canned, but to say he has not been a winner everywhere he has gone makes you look stupid. Even more so than normal.

Tubby Smith's record at Texas Tech was 46-50 overall and 18-36 in the Big 12.

What bizarro world am I living in?

I think you've got the right idea, but I will qualify the Texas Tech situation a bit, the previous years prior to Tubby were:

Pat Knight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Knight

2008–09 Texas Tech 14–19 3–13 11th
2009–10 Texas Tech 19–16 4–12 T–9th NIT Quarterfinals
2010–11 Texas Tech 13–19 5–11 T–10th

Billy G: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Gillispie

2011–12 Texas Tech 8–23 1–17 10th

Then Tubby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubby_Smith

2013–14 Texas Tech 14–18 6–12 9th
2014–15 Texas Tech 13–19 3–15 10th
2015–16 Texas Tech 19–13 9–9 7th NCAA First Round

>>>

So, it was a huge rebuild and took a little bit. Not actually that dissimilar to our situation in regards to how far below expectations we have been for a few years now.

You are 100% correct that Tubby was not a winner technically at TT, but he did right the ship at TT and he did win everywhere else.

Call it you're right on the facts, but the concept mostly holds if you curve the TT situation?

>>>

It doesn't really matter, the concerns with Tubby are not that he's performed well at all stops (he did), but rather how much is left in the tank of a 65 year old veteran who hasn't recruited that hard out of the box.

I'm willing to give a legit HOF coach like Tubby some rope, but I'd be more confident if were hiring the Tubby that UK or Minny let go. Wonder about tire tread, not resume or quality at peak.

Just my $0.02, your mileage may vary.

I gotcha - my point was mainly with Geoff's contention that Tubby had "won everywhere"...we can project all we want...the simple fact at the end of the day is that he wasn't a winner at TT. It's right there in the final records and percentages.

Heck, his conference record at Minnesota was below .500 as well.

May surprise some, but I don't make up the rules...above .500 is winning and below .500 is not.

That's basically the same sporting rules we've all been living under for a few decades now.

I hear you. I'll excuse Geoff here while granting your point and not advancing.

I think the real issue is that why are we having confidence pumping pieces on a HC as accomplished as Tubby in the first place?

It might be due to concerns about early recruiting returns - especially with Grad Transfers who could help short term as we try to float in year one, the play to get Saul a full assistantship at the detriment of an existing player's father with local ties, etc.

I actually still have a great deal of faith in Tubby since he has won everywhere (note: technically almost everywhere) and has a great resume.

But then why do we need to be reminded?

(08-23-2016 11:52 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  We are operating under the assumption than being above .500 is winning, correct?

That could be one definition and Webster would surely agree with you. So we could say that Josh was a winning coach.

My definition of a winning coach is one who left the program a lot better than when he found it.. Did Tubby take a doormat big 12 team and take them to the NCAA tournament-- I believe so.

The jury is still out for me on Tubby, so I will have to wait and see.

(08-23-2016 12:34 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:31 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:25 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(08-23-2016 12:23 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  Going to the tourney while coaching TTU is winning, I don't care what the record is...........to say otherwise is just another ignoring reality. Whine, whine whine & we haven't even played the first game of the Tubby era.

Whatever makes you feel good, amigo.

Tubby's overall and league records are below .500 while at TT. I don't see how pointing that out is "whining" but okay. Some of us have different definitions of "winning" than others. It's not a big deal.

Heck, Tic Price won 20 games and went to the NCAA Tournament at McNeese State...guess he "won" there?

Actually, either metric above .500 or against expectations at school, you could make the case that Tic won there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic_Price

2001–02 McNeese State 21–9 17–3 1st NCAA First Round
2002–03 McNeese State 15–14 10–10 5th
2003–04 McNeese State 11–16 7–9 9th
2004–05 McNeese State 13–15 8–8 6th
2005–06 McNeese State 14–14 9–7 4th
McNeese State: 74–69 (.517) 41–37 (.526)

His replacement is at <.400 ball... over 9 years. McNeese isn't a power program with resources.

(and no, I'm not endorsing hiring Tic Price later )

Yep.

That one good season skewed the rest in reality.

He only had one more winning season 15-14.

The other three were losers more or less - unless 14-14 is a moral victory?

I guess there is the idea of expectations at situation vs. actual results.

I used to live in Louisiana, my understanding is that not stabbing yourself in the foot at McNeese is a win actually.

It should be noted that Tic was not fired or rehired, simply not renewed, at McNeese.

Still, McNeese is not a power, you could say Tic played that course exactly to par...