The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

^^^ Very true. We have a tough schedule next year, and in 2016 have a real opp -- but yes, what about other coaches getting hired elsewhere? Unless we pump lots of money in to retain that, that'll end up affecting things...

... BUT ALSO really test to see how good Fleck is as a coach, right? (for dealing with such adjustments)

I hope P.J. stays long enough to lead us to a MAC championship. Should that happen, if he wants to stay for a while, I say great. If he decides to move on to an opportunity somewhere else, I would have no problem with him leaving. Consider this list of current B1G coaches, though:

Brady Hoke (Michigan)
Urban Meyer (Ohio State)
Jerry Kill (Minnesota)
Tim Beckman (Illinois)
Darrell Hazell (Purdue)

Besides all being successful MAC coaches, what else do they have in common? A combined ZERO MAC championships.

There's no guarantee P.J. sticks around here long enough to lead us to a MAC title.

(10-26-2014 11:59 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  heres something thats not been mentioned... he's put some coordinators in position to be pulled away... Honestly how much of this teams on field improvement is solely PJ... vs PJ and his coordinators... Serious question.. How much of this offensive insurgence is Ciarrocca or PJ? Or defensively Pinkham or PJ.... or Franklin's great frosh start being more Hart or PJ?

This is a legitimate question... not trying to rock the boat here... I am just stating that this isn't entirely PJ... He has actually surrounded himself with some good coaches that fit the pieces that he puts in place. We have seen this before... Remember when Cubit was here at an OC... yep. Might be time to take a little step backward and worry a little bit about the coordinator carousel that can stunt a MAC head coaches climb up the ladder quicker than a bad decision with an intern caught on tape.

Callahan, Kenney, and Ciarrocca are all guys that could move in the off-season in my opinion. I don't see Pinkham going.

I also don't see Hart going either. If he is smart, and I know he is, there is some offensive coordinator potential if Ciarrocca goes. Which could eventually lead to the head job if PJ leaves in a couple years.

Okay, Kolonel, I'll break these down, though in their records in the MAC:

1. Brady Hoke [6yrs] (34-38):
- PREV YEAR RECORD: 6-6
- 4-8, 2-9, 4-7, 5-7
- 7-6
- 12-1 (Mac West Champs; Gone to MW Team)

2. Urban Meyer [2yrs] (17-6):
- PREV YEAR RECORD: 2-9
- 8-3 + Coach of the Year
- 9-3 (Gone to MW Team)

3. Jerry Kill [3yrs] (23-16):
- PREV YEAR RECORD: 2-10
- 6-7
- 7-6
- 10-3 (Mac West Champs; Gone to B1G Team)

4. Tim Beckman [3yrs] (21-16):
- PREV YEAR RECORD: 3-9
- 5-7
- 8-5
- 8-4 (Mac West Co-Champs; Gone to B1G Team)

5. Darrell Hazell [2yrs] (16-10):
- PREV YEAR RECORD: 5-7
- 5-7
- 11-3 (Mac East Champs; Gone to B1G Team)

6. Dave Doeren [2yrs] (24-4):
- PREV YEAR RECORD: 11-3 [1-0 by him as interim coach]
- 11-3
- 12-1 (Mac Champs; Gone to ACC Team)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

7. PJ Fleck [3yrs] (26-25):
- PREV YEAR RECORD: 4-8
- 1-11 (2013)
- 8-5 (2014)
- 7-6 (2015)
- 10-3 (2016)
... At 2015, Does one think that's good enough? I don't. Even if in 2015 he Somehow goes 8-4 with that much tougher schedule, but still under .500 overall? NO coaching experience beforehand, except WR coach a bit. I would say a combo of an 8W + 9W season back to back would be required for us to worry about him leaving anytime real soon. He needs more to prove since his lack of experience and starting out 1-11 -- and being the youngest coach in FBS football. OR, if he happened to break out in the 2016 season with double-digit wins -- YES, he'd be gone THEN.

Wait, did I miss three years?

Quote:Whats interesting is that ball state fans are accusing Fleck of recruiting violations.

Ball State has fans?

(10-26-2014 11:02 PM)New School Bronco Wrote:  As of now he's 6-11 he's not going anywhere

6-14. Not a Math major, are you, Newbie?

Derrick Dooley went 17-20 (or close to that) at La Tech and got the Tennessee job.

Lot of people thought Uzelac, Molde, Darnell were going elsewhere after early success at WMU.

Hopefully Fleck will have enough to get the opportunity soon.

He isn't leaving after this year, or the next, because I think there will be a little step back record wise in 2015. When WMU goes 10 or 11 wins in 2016, then he will have offers from a few places.

(10-26-2014 10:43 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:42 PM)WMU83 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:38 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Wait, that link. They're accusing us of recruiting violations? Why? Didn't we discuss this once?

Whats interesting is that ball state fans are accusing Fleck of recruiting violations. Why would they gossip like that? I hope 2 years down the road we don't get hit with any violations after he leaves us for Alabama. That would be a horrible and would set the program back.

C'mon when has a MAC program been accused of a recruiting violation, when do they have the dough?!?!

Personally, I would be surprised if there are any MAJOR violations in his recruiting. I would guess that other schools, much like many of us did, are asking the question of how does the coach of a 1-11 team bring in the "greatest" class in MAC history. People are bound to question that.

But I don't think that he is doing anything necessarily illegal. Or anymore illegal than any other schools are.

I have heard rumors of some of his tactics for putting the kids he is recruiting on the spot to make a decision right then and there, with a take it or leave it offer. For example, if he is recruiting a 3 star against Indiana or Purdue, he gives them a "1 time" offer early. If I am a kid that isn't certain the Big 10 team is going to take them, I might make that verbal to WMU. Thing is, once that verbal is made, then the IU and PU are going to back off on continuing to recruit a kid that was probably not their top choice anyways, so that in fact firms up the commitment to WMU.
Could some people consider this maybe a bit of a questionable tactic? Maybe.... But if you really think about it, its really quite smart and its REALLY working. So I cant argue with the results if this is in fact how he is getting them.

As for any other alleged violations, I would say for now its just spilled milk by teams that are getting out recruited and now beat on the field. If there is any fire with that smoke, it will eventually come out.

Quote:I have heard rumors of some of his tactics for putting the kids he is recruiting on the spot to make a decision right then and there, with a take it or leave it offer. For example, if he is recruiting a 3 star against Indiana or Purdue, he gives them a "1 time" offer early.

I don't think that approach is uncommon in other sports either. Happens in college softball, too.

I will tell you how he gets the best recruiting class in the MAC after having a 1-11 squad. He outworks people on the recruiting trail. To think there is some benefit other than a program on the rise, and potential playing time he has to offer is ridiculous. His infectious personality works with recruits, our facilities are better than most out of the Power 5, and recruits buy into his vision.

Thing is, we've had some stellar talent back off of their commitments because they get swept up in his enthusiasm, so it may work against him at times. But PJ is PJ and he isn't going to get worse on the recruiting trail, so these other coaches better step their game up.

But I call BS on people who think WMU is doing anything fishy. It's jealousy plain and simple.

(10-27-2014 08:58 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

Quote:I have heard rumors of some of his tactics for putting the kids he is recruiting on the spot to make a decision right then and there, with a take it or leave it offer. For example, if he is recruiting a 3 star against Indiana or Purdue, he gives them a "1 time" offer early.

I don't think that approach is uncommon in other sports either. Happens in college softball, too.

Yeah, no big deal. Let's be realistic. Coaches only have so many scholarships they can give out, so they have to do things like this. They can't wait on kids all the time.

He isn't going anywhere next year. One nice year following one terrible year does not mean you've completed your rebuild. After year four, watch out!

I think it's highly unlikely P.J. leaves after this season for a number of reasons. In particular, I would be very surprised if any P5 schools came calling just yet. As some already pointed out here, he's currently 6-14. Even if we somehow run the table the rest of the way, he's still sub-.500. I can't see any A.D. at a P5 school sticking his/her neck out to hire a coach with his limited resume at this point. These same A.D.s know they'd have to deal with brushback from some of their fans/alums who want nothing to do with P.J.'s schtick. I think it's very possible that, ironically, some of his controversial antics here may limit some of his future options elsewhere. Some, though - not all. If he eventually wins big here, more A.D.s will be willing to pull the trigger on hiring him.

If P.J. did leave after this year, I think it's far more likely it would be for an AAC or Mountain West-type job. Many successful MAC coaches have followed that path before moving up to the big-time, such as:

Brady Hoke (Ball State to SDSU to Michigan)
Urban Meyer (BG to pre-P5 Utah to Florida/OSU)
Brian Kelly (CMU to Cincinnati to Notre Dame)
Butch Davis (CMU to Cincinnati to Tennessee)

Yeah, there's NO way he's leaving after this year. Even if we get 10 wins this year, winning everything + bowl -- that 1-11 marker the year before is too much to hire a guy who was never even an OC/DC for a junior high team before 2013.

After next year? Sure, he could. But let's be realistic. We'll be thankful to get 7 wins next year. MAYBE 8 with a viable bowl-matchup and go 8-5 that way. It won't be enough at that point.

BUT, if we get 7+ wins next year AND we get 9-11 wins in 2016, *then* I see his phone ringing.

My biggest worry if he leaves at the end of this year is how many of the star recruits from 2014 leave also. They will have options and they are PJ's guys.

These people don't look at it so black and white (wins and losses).

They look at trends and see it like buying shares in the stock market.

Right now, Fleck is trending upwards... and quickly.

If you're an A.D. looking for coaching replacements, you'd have to be a fool to not have him on your radar right now.

(10-27-2014 03:38 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  These people don't look at it so black and white (wins and losses). They look at trends and see it like buying shares in the stock market. Right now, Fleck is trending upwards... and quickly. If you're an A.D. looking for coaching replacements, you'd have to be a fool to not have him on your radar right now.

Let's have a little fun and say, for the sake of argument, I'm wrong and P5 schools are interested in P.J. right now. Where could he end up?

Michigan? LOL. Michigan fans would spontaneously combust if this happened - and it would be AWESOME to watch.

Florida? Schools like Michigan and Florida aren't going to be looking for the next great recruiter when they will always attract a certain amount of top-notch talent. They'll want a coach with a proven, long-established track record. I'd rule both of these schools out of the P.J. derby for that reason.

Illinois? This makes some sense, considering P.J. is from the state and their program hasn't done anything in what seems like forever. I'm not sure if they'd be in the market for another MAC coach considering their Beckman experience. Also, Illinois is coming off a big win over Minnesota - who knows, maybe they get hot, become bowl-eligible, and this job doesn't even open up.

Kansas? I actually think this type of P5 program makes the most sense if any are indeed interested in P.J.. This program has been without a pulse for a long time and could definitely use a P.J.-type to build excitement and enthusiasm, as much as building the program itself. P.J. would probably be the anti-Charlie Weis there, which would probably be a good thing for their players. They also have a recent failed history with a MAC coach, though (Turner Gill), and I don't know if they'd want to consider another MAC coach as a result.

Obviously, jobs will open up as the season ends. Any other potential big openings I may be missing?