The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(10-26-2014 02:35 PM)Liam9903 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 02:27 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 08:10 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  Be careful what you wish for

I know that a handful of you are hoping for quick success by the Broncos and a quick exit by PJ. Whatever your rationale, in many ways it's irrelevant to the larger issue of on the field success. It's true that all successful MAC coaches move up when the time comes and PJ will do the same. But know that we are in the Golden age of Bronco recruiting and that when PJ leaves that will end. PJ is not only best recruiter in the MAC right now, he might be the best of all time.

So, here is what will happen when PJ leaves? WMU will hire a new coach, he'll probably be competent, we've had a few over the years. The new guy will win with PJ's recruits for a few years. But…recruiting will drop off, how could it not, and Western will return to its mediocre foundations.

With respect to the proud heritage that another Bronco poster mentioned a few days ago, give me a break. While we have had some decent teams, the 1988 team and Tim Lester's era comes to mind, as does the Cubit team that went 9-4. However, three MAC titles in 60 or so years is not a proud heritage on the field no matter how you spin it.

For the record, I am defining proud heritage as a success on the field, not so-called character, not "niceness", none of that intangible crap. No one is going to go see bunch of nice losers play. Sorry all of you high horse character guys, but that's life in America.

So, from my perspective whether you like PJ or not, I'd be careful about wishing him away too quickly. I'm hoping for at least one more year after this when I'm certain that Western will win a MAC championship.

Great post, too bad it falls on deaf ears to the 4-5 village idiots that truly need to hear it. It took me about 6 months or so of seeing him work up close to see that this thing was going to be success. I just had no idea it would be this soon. I'm still shocked at our turnaround this year. Don't think for a second that there aren't other A.D.'s out there keeping a VERY close eye on our team right now. I guarantee you Fleck's name is already in a few hats out there based on his recruiting success, and this season's turnaround alone.

My biggest fear is that we win 8-9 games, still don't win a MAC West or a MAC Championship, and then he gets the big bucks and leaves before this thing is completely established. It's the difference between where Toledo's program was at when Beckman left, and where NIU's program was at 1-2 years ago. One is stockpiled with talent but never completely made it over the hump (Toledo), the other built a strong foundation, had an exit strategy, and never seemed to miss a beat (NIU).

A part of me almost doesn't want us to win too quick because it'll all come crashing back down very quickly and we'll be right back to where we started. It can happen very fast. Which is scary, because I'm not sure I have the faith in our athletic dept. to conduct another search. I think we got extremely lucky this time around. The best thing we'd have going for us would be the inherited talent and improved facilities.

One benefit might actually be that we don't have a strong incentive to promote from within though. If you look at the MAC programs that backslide after a coach leaves it usually* involves a knee jerk in house promotion. PJ has surrounded himself with mostly experienced coaches who haven't been thought of as potential head coaches throughout their careers or coaches that are too young and inexperienced. I'd rather have a Jerry Kill than a Rod Carrey if that unfortunate scenario plays out.

It sure would be nice to have a coach who is in a position to do something more than stay here forever and try and defend a mediocre record. Its a good position to be in relative to what we've had.

Quote:My biggest fear is that we win 8-9 games, still don't win a MAC West or a MAC Championship, and then he gets the big bucks and leaves before this thing is completely established.

There's Zero to fear. He ain't going anywhere. He was 1-11 last year, he's JUST starting out with ANY REAL coaching experience in his life (WR coach doesn't count so much) -- and he's winning right now. Great. Only a record-breaking fool of an AD at the BCS level would hire him right now. He'll be 9-15 if we go 8-4 this year. He inherited decent talent, too. And again, super young/inexperienced as a Rookie HC on any level.

I think by the rationale of people's fears, Lembo would have been gone already after 10 wins with BSU. Sun-Belt or D1AA teams would very possibly want to hire him, yes. But he wouldn't make such a lateral and slightly backward step. He'd be going BCS-level / top-tier-AAC-level or bust.

1 good year at 8-4 after going 1-11 in a 100% inexcusable way -- for someone with Zero HC or coordinating experience beforehand is NOT going to be hired by Illinois or something.

It's going to take a couple more years to "back that up". With next year's schedule, that will slow the train down.

There's plenty to fear.

If we win 8 games this year, he's getting looks.

Quote:If we win 8 games this year, he's getting looks.

Yeah -- he'll be bookmarked by teams whose coaches' contracts are ending in 2-3 years and are under-performing. Just saying you don't have to fear him leaving at the end of THIS season.

And you don't have to fear us going 9-3 next year with such a tough schedule OOC and in-conference. Not going to happen, at all. Even at 8-4 next year, which would be a Huge Longshot that nobody should expect -- he most likely won't get hired elsewhere.

After 2016, if we are improved & built to the sound Fleck Foundation level? Yes, then a decent possibility, if everything follows through and we go 10W that year.

He'll have looks -- but IMO, people still see him as still being the "farm system" with a ways to go.

(10-26-2014 10:29 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 09:11 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  That's part of the deal. You all said that's what you wanted when we made this change, and, you were willing to go through this cycle. Remember?

It's not so much what I wish for, it's the reality of the day. Maybe the next guy will be even a better recruiter.

Yeah, and maybe Dip, Brovol, Carl Rove and I will create a conservative think tank.

Nice one! Guess who will be first to be voted off the island? Lol

(10-26-2014 04:08 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:29 AM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 09:11 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  That's part of the deal. You all said that's what you wanted when we made this change, and, you were willing to go through this cycle. Remember?

It's not so much what I wish for, it's the reality of the day. Maybe the next guy will be even a better recruiter.

Yeah, and maybe Dip, Brovol, Carl Rove and I will create a conservative think tank.

Nice one! Guess who will be first to be voted off the island? Lol

You wouldn't!

(10-26-2014 11:17 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  I'm rowing the boat and predict right here and now we take down MSU next fall.

LOL. How early did you start drinking today?

(10-26-2014 05:14 PM)texasbronco1 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 11:17 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  I'm rowing the boat and predict right here and now we take down MSU next fall.

LOL. How early did you start drinking today?

Or how much? Perhaps as much as the whole tailgate will drink that game. :)

If we beat MSU, we'd have to do the right thing and have a student riot. Only fitting.

Nah, that's their style. We're the school that was so happy to get up to campus we had our riot to START the school year. :)

(10-26-2014 03:42 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  There's plenty to fear.

If we win 8 games this year, he's getting looks.

i agree, i wouldn't be surprised if a BCS program with money went after Fleck. Can our boosters pony up the dough to keep him? or other incentives?

Here comes the itty bitty righteous committee any second now...

(10-26-2014 05:50 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Don't ask Zieglers.

LOL!!!

(10-26-2014 03:42 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  There's plenty to fear.

If we win 8 games this year, he's getting looks.

And that's EXACTLY what he is hoping as well. He can say all he wants about the WMU future, but I have it on good authority that he wants to get his wins here and make that jump to the big time.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves though. This team is miles and miles better than they were a year ago. But they have a lot more football to play this year before they win MAC titles.

Your good authority has been right on the money so far 42!

I thought in one of his early press conferences he said he was in it for the long haul here.

For better or for worse.

For richer or poorer

in sickness and in health

(10-26-2014 07:39 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  I thought in one of his early press conferences he said he was in it for the long haul here.

The world of coaching can be very fickle. He's a guy who is from a MAC school. I think he knows where we are in the college football universe and the challenges of succeeding here long term with the resource constraints we have. As long as he comes to work every day trying to make WMU football an elite program I'm not overly interested in him wanting to die at his desk in Brown like a Joe Paterno.

(10-26-2014 07:42 PM)ghost bronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:39 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  I thought in one of his early press conferences he said he was in it for the long haul here.

The world of coaching can be very fickle. He's a guy who is from a MAC school. I think he knows where we are in the college football universe and the challenges of succeeding here long term with the resource constraints we have. As long as he comes to work every day trying to make WMU football an elite program I'm not overly interested in him wanting to die at his desk in Brown like a Joe Paterno.

Nick Saban was "not gonna be the Alabama coach" either. Fleck is simply proving that he is an outstanding coach this year (probably going to win MAC Coach of the Year). I hope he is here for the long haul but would never fault the guy for moving on to a better opportunity. He's proving he can change the culture of a program, he's an outstanding recruiter and coach, and he's an intelligent person.