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(10-26-2014 07:37 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Your good authority has been right on the money so far 42!

Jeez Louise

(10-26-2014 07:49 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:37 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Your good authority has been right on the money so far 42!

Jeez Louise

You have been too BC!

(10-26-2014 07:49 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:37 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Your good authority has been right on the money so far 42!

Jeez Louise

You'll hitch your wagon to anyone who might help you advance your stupid agenda.

Problem with that is, this weeks new best ebuddy, is next weeks new eenemy.

People have lost all respect for you. Had you stood on your original belief that he was incompetent and would embarrass the program, I'd have had more respect for you. Even if you had said, "Well, I guessed I missed that one," then people would have likely not batted an eye.

But your never ending version of how Fleck will fail, then how he will succeed, then how he will succeed and leave, gives the impression that you just want to be on all sides of the issue and claim some eVictory of sorts.

Just throw yourself on the mercy of the board and admit you were wrong, that it was all a game. BroncoStampeders are very forgiving

Quote:Don't ask Zieglers.

Yeah, as far as Donations are concerned, I don't think they can pony up any more -- "Here, take my wife!"

Quote:I thought in one of his early press conferences he said he was in it for the long haul here.

Well, what else is he going to say, right? He bolted NIU's position as new OC to run to Rutgers as a WR coach (which IMO, was not a step up). I think he's in it for the long haul IF he can't get hired elsewhere. He's being honest in one, understandable way. But one can't take his word that even if a decent P5 team Hastily wants to hire him for 2x the pay, he'd say no. Ain't going to happen hastily, but I think he's just trying to let everyone know he's Set In For Kzoo and will deal with any Future offers in the future if/when they come. But also wanting to go, I could understand, if his family fell apart here in W Mich. Just an associative thing.

Quote:Lets not get ahead of ourselves though. This team is miles and miles better than they were a year ago. But they have a lot more football to play this year before they win MAC titles.

Yes, I know. People are scared he's going to leave this year if we somehow win out the rest of the way, going 9-3, or possibly get some interviews at 8-4. Combine that with 1-11, and he's still under .500 as a brand new coordinator or coach in his lifetime. Big conferences ain't going to pick him up this year -- and most likely NOT at the end of next year, because our schedule's too tough and we won't be standing out enough.

IMO, at the EARLIEST would be at the end of the 2016 season -- that's IF all goes well. Given his family life taking a big splice, I could see him Wanting to go -- and possibly hopping on board with an AAC or MW team that really needs someone, to "get away from it all". But if he wants to be close to his kids & ex/wife, as that whole thing very recently happened, he MAY also want to stay in the midwest -- so he wouldn't take a non-P5 job unless it was in the midwest region.

Dunno what's going on inside his head. But I'm not worried at all about him leaving in this year or next. If we are MAC West kings, at the end of 2016, I could see him being picked up. But I'm not betting on that, either. We still have a long way to go to prove that he's strong & legit as a coach. By this time NEXT YEAR, we'll have a better clue. Way too early to worry about now.

Whoosh

(10-26-2014 07:58 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:49 PM)BCBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:37 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Your good authority has been right on the money so far 42!

Jeez Louise

You'll hitch your wagon to anyone who might help you advance your stupid agenda.

Problem with that is, this weeks new best ebuddy, is next weeks new eenemy.

People have lost all respect for you. Had you stood on your original belief that he was incompetent and would embarrass the program, I'd have had more respect for you. Even if you had said, "Well, I guessed I missed that one," then people would have likely not batted an eye.

But your never ending version of how Fleck will fail, then how he will succeed, then how he will succeed and leave, gives the impression that you just want to be on all sides of the issue and claim some eVictory of sorts.

Just throw yourself on the mercy of the board and admit you were wrong, that it was all a game. BroncoStampeders are very forgiving

You've mistaken me for someone who cares. You make this "respect play" out of self serving motivations, and that rings as hollow as your awesome predictions and singling players out to be the goat, or worse, when you celebrate their getting injured like you did Rawls. Pathetic.

Nah, you thought you were king chit here on Turd Island when you initially came out against Fleck.

You thought you were taking an edgy tough stance. That stance was easy to take, we were 1-11. You were the insightful one and the rest of us were fools and apologists.

The hard stance was to see the growth in other areas (attitudes, recruiting, facility upgrades) and give the guy a chance.

That group you once were once the Pied Piper to is slowly dwindling to a tiny minority. As you say, you don't care, and I'm sure the backlash doesn't bother you. But being wrong on your two year crusade that he's incompetent----that bothers you.

You WISH it bothers me. You were the most outspoken critic at one time BTW. He's only 5-3 btw, and I still can't stand him personally, that hasn't changed. I'm not so sure he's a great coach without Franklin either, but since he recruited him and he has him and winning, I'm all in because....he'll leave within a year.

(10-26-2014 07:39 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  I thought in one of his early press conferences he said he was in it for the long haul here.

He may have said it, but he's said so much that my guess is he cant remember half of it anyways. But he has also told plenty of people off the record that he's going to win here and move on to the big time. He has no plans to complete his contract.

(10-26-2014 10:25 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:39 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  I thought in one of his early press conferences he said he was in it for the long haul here.

He may have said it, but he's said so much that my guess is he cant remember half of it anyways. But he has also told plenty of people off the record that he's going to win here and move on to the big time. He has no plans to complete his contract.

I believe it....

(10-26-2014 07:48 PM)ChuckNorris Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:42 PM)ghost bronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:39 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  I thought in one of his early press conferences he said he was in it for the long haul here.

The world of coaching can be very fickle. He's a guy who is from a MAC school. I think he knows where we are in the college football universe and the challenges of succeeding here long term with the resource constraints we have. As long as he comes to work every day trying to make WMU football an elite program I'm not overly interested in him wanting to die at his desk in Brown like a Joe Paterno.

Nick Saban was "not gonna be the Alabama coach" either. Fleck is simply proving that he is an outstanding coach this year (probably going to win MAC Coach of the Year). I hope he is here for the long haul but would never fault the guy for moving on to a better opportunity. He's proving he can change the culture of a program, he's an outstanding recruiter and coach, and he's an intelligent person.

He's proven he can recruit. I will give you that.
The other stuff, especially the intelligent part, we can all continue to debate.

(10-26-2014 10:29 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:48 PM)ChuckNorris Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:42 PM)ghost bronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 07:39 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote:  I thought in one of his early press conferences he said he was in it for the long haul here.

The world of coaching can be very fickle. He's a guy who is from a MAC school. I think he knows where we are in the college football universe and the challenges of succeeding here long term with the resource constraints we have. As long as he comes to work every day trying to make WMU football an elite program I'm not overly interested in him wanting to die at his desk in Brown like a Joe Paterno.

Nick Saban was "not gonna be the Alabama coach" either. Fleck is simply proving that he is an outstanding coach this year (probably going to win MAC Coach of the Year). I hope he is here for the long haul but would never fault the guy for moving on to a better opportunity. He's proving he can change the culture of a program, he's an outstanding recruiter and coach, and he's an intelligent person.

He's proven he can recruit. I will give you that.
The other stuff, especially the intelligent part, we can all continue to debate.

Wow, it just gets worse and worse.

Quote:Fleck is such an embarrassment I really feel kind of bad for WMU fans. Even if he turns them around (which it looks like he might be doing), if I were them I'd rather have one of the many coaches who can turn around a program without looking like a first class moron.

Quote:I cant stand the guy but his antics seem to help him on the recruiting trail. I guess players can somehow relate to him. I think he is sleazeball but so far there has been no mention of any wrong doing. He does seem to have a problem over recruiting positions and then pulling offers from kids which will eventually bite him in the ass

http://www.bsufans.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3813

Wait, that link. They're accusing us of recruiting violations? Why?

Didn't we discuss this once?

(10-26-2014 10:38 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Wait, that link. They're accusing us of recruiting violations? Why? Didn't we discuss this once?

Whats interesting is that ball state fans are accusing Fleck of recruiting violations. Why would they gossip like that? I hope 2 years down the road we don't get hit with any violations after he leaves us for Alabama. That would be a horrible and would set the program back.

(10-26-2014 10:42 PM)WMU83 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:38 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Wait, that link. They're accusing us of recruiting violations? Why? Didn't we discuss this once?

Whats interesting is that ball state fans are accusing Fleck of recruiting violations. Why would they gossip like that? I hope 2 years down the road we don't get hit with any violations after he leaves us for Alabama. That would be a horrible and would set the program back.

C'mon when has a MAC program been accused of a recruiting violation, when do they have the dough?!?!

(10-26-2014 10:43 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:42 PM)WMU83 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:38 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Wait, that link. They're accusing us of recruiting violations? Why? Didn't we discuss this once?

Whats interesting is that ball state fans are accusing Fleck of recruiting violations. Why would they gossip like that? I hope 2 years down the road we don't get hit with any violations after he leaves us for Alabama. That would be a horrible and would set the program back.

C'mon when has a MAC program been accused of a recruiting violation, when do they have the dough?!?!

Ask the Zieglers.....

Opps

(10-26-2014 10:45 PM)WMU83 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:43 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:42 PM)WMU83 Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 10:38 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Wait, that link. They're accusing us of recruiting violations? Why? Didn't we discuss this once?

Whats interesting is that ball state fans are accusing Fleck of recruiting violations. Why would they gossip like that? I hope 2 years down the road we don't get hit with any violations after he leaves us for Alabama. That would be a horrible and would set the program back.

C'mon when has a MAC program been accused of a recruiting violation, when do they have the dough?!?!

Ask the Zieglers.....

Opps

LOL!!

Quote:I'm not so sure he's a great coach without Franklin either, but since he recruited him and he has him and winning, I'm all in because....he'll leave within a year.

He's a coach learning quickly. How good/great/bad/mediocre he'll be is yet to be seen. However, this year -- he's looking pretty darn good (knock on wood). But WAY too early to be assigning labels... which is why I'd bet $1,000 that he is NOT leaving at the end of next year (being picked up by another place) -- even if we somehow go 8-4 next year (with that ubur-tough schedule). He has no coaching experience before coming in here.

I don't see why people have so much HATE about him, though. OK -- his cocky attitude people hear about from others + the cheating thing... if true, I understand having a bad taste in the mouth.

What I care about a coach is his attitude with the Players in the form of growth & progression -- not other admins or a press guy around. I think it's his general swagger that can be seen on TV that some old-school people dislike, just in and of itself. Yeah, it's silly if we're going 1-11, very true. But who cares about it, if we're winning and bouncing back really well? Heck, if it works with the players and gets them gelling & progressing -- pile it on! This is a coach -- not a candidate to be a Roommate! :)

What affects me about coaches is when their mentality/attitude/swagger is detrimental or potentially detrimental to the team down the line.

I'd take a HC who goes 8-4 in a run-of-the-mill year who has a swagger that I personally would find eye rolling and hear stories about some admins doing the same -- than a HC who goes 6-6 in a run-of-the-mill year who fits the "characature" of what a HC "should be" while being nice & sweet to everybody. :)

As of now he's 6-11 he's not going anywhere

heres something thats not been mentioned... he's put some coordinators in position to be pulled away... Honestly how much of this teams on field improvement is solely PJ... vs PJ and his coordinators... Serious question.. How much of this offensive insurgence is Ciarrocca or PJ? Or defensively Pinkham or PJ.... or Franklin's great frosh start being more Hart or PJ?

This is a legitimate question... not trying to rock the boat here... I am just stating that this isn't entirely PJ... He has actually surrounded himself with some good coaches that fit the pieces that he puts in place. We have seen this before... Remember when Cubit was here at an OC... yep. Might be time to take a little step backward and worry a little bit about the coordinator carousel that can stunt a MAC head coaches climb up the ladder quicker than a bad decision with an intern caught on tape.