bitcruncher Wrote:Both USF and UCF are in a talent rich area, and there is no reason why both can't create programs equal to any currently in the BEast. You could dilute the potential considerably before it hurt either one. The entire nation recruits Florida. So how is having UCF in the BEast going to hurt them any more?

I would argue that USF is already equal to most teams in the BigEast. Afterall we won 4 games in the BigEast, including one of the 'flagship' schools in UL. Similarly, we lost a tough one to UCONN but was previously 2-0 in recent meetings.

USF is still a work in progress but we are having some success on the field as our first bowl bid would indicate.

UCF is doing a lot of nice things facilities wise, but I honestly don't know how good they are b/c they made headlines last year with a piss poor CDOA schedule. IMO, the best candidate is Memphis. They add value to the already rich hoops television contract and they would likely bring a nice bowl game in the Liberty Bowl.

ECU has a good fanbase and some history, albeit some paranoid, uninformed fans. However, they used to travel pretty good back when they were good so it could help the BE secure some bowl games in the southeast.

nflsucks Wrote:

Quote:The Big East has proven that lack of tradition and low attendance doesn't mean much when it comes to expanions. Potenial is much more important.

The difference being that we expanded to take USF and Cincinnati out of a necessity to meet the NCAA minimum requirements to be a football conference. Any future expansions would be for different reasons (unless we get raided again, not likely).

Exactly. At the time of expansion USF was an up-and-coming talent and Cincinnati had been to 3 or 4 bowls in a row, had won a conference title, and was showing signs of becoming a Top 40 or 50 program. Cincinnati and USF also had large markets. In Cincinnati's case, a huge media market that the Big East needed to present to the BCS to make their case. South Florida was replacing a departing market in the same general area.

StillJonesing Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

nflsucks Wrote:

Quote:Had the Big East take us as a football only instead of TEMPLE and we had the BCS like VT in that period we would have exploded as well, and the Big East wouldn't have a lot of the problems now

Had we taken ECU instead of Temple, and had ECU blown up, what would have happened is the ACC would have been strong armed into taking not only VT, but also ECU, with Miami. So maybe we would have kept BC.

Or maybe a powerhouse ECU would have been enough to keep Miami happy in the league.

Or maybe ECU would not have become a power and would have been a middle of the pack team.

Too many variables and uncertainties to say with any confidence whether or not taking ECU would have saved us from the problems the Big East currently faces.

I think the fair question is why hasnt ECU 'exploded' in CUSA? They have never won a conference title much less grown into a regional power. This notion of 'sleeping giant ECU' is tired. I've been listening to it for the better part of 10 years.

PS. if they came on as a full member they would single handedly knock the Big East from any claim it had to being the premire basketball conference.

We won 2 Liberty Bowl Alliances in 1994 and 1995 which you as well as I know were the equivalent of CUSA. We also finished #2 in CUSA 3 times, and beat more BCS teams OOC than anyone else from the time CUSA started until you left.

As far as your PS. Didn't USF already do that? I guess you could play infront of litterly 1,500 against UCF and be happier.

This is the problem a lot of people have. I never understood the notion of trashing an existing Big East program to try and make yours look better.

StillJonesing Wrote:1) We won 2 Liberty Bowl Alliances in 1994 and 1995 which you as well as I know were the equivalent of CUSA. We also finished #2 in CUSA 3 times, and

2) [We] beat more BCS teams OOC than anyone else from the time CUSA started until you left.

Okay, let's roll the truth out here.

1) Actually you and I don't know that it was the equivalent of CUSA. The reason? It wasn't the equivalent. Equivalent would be all of the soon to be CUSA teams playing each other as indy's, than best record heads to Liberty Bowl. There was no requirement to play each other, and many teams did not play all others. You're trying to designate good '94 and '95 campaigns as de facto CUSA titles. Nice try. ECU won nothing of the sort.

2) "Anyone else"? Patently false. I know for a fact that UofL beat more BCS teams than any other CUSA team when referring to CUSA's creation through 2004.

Were you trying to hit a tall tale out of the park and hope no one noticed or was it just honest misinformation?

-------------
EDIT: Just went and checked the old scores. By my count, from 1996-2004 UofL went 14-12 against BCS teams. ECU went 12-23. So...less ECU wins, in 9 more games. And that even counts one of ECU's better "against BCS" seasons of 3-2 in 1996 when they weren't even a CUSA member but I'll count it anyway because it still doesn't change the incorrectness of the statement.

StillJonesing Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

nflsucks Wrote:

Quote:Had the Big East take us as a football only instead of TEMPLE and we had the BCS like VT in that period we would have exploded as well, and the Big East wouldn't have a lot of the problems now

Had we taken ECU instead of Temple, and had ECU blown up, what would have happened is the ACC would have been strong armed into taking not only VT, but also ECU, with Miami. So maybe we would have kept BC.

Or maybe a powerhouse ECU would have been enough to keep Miami happy in the league.

Or maybe ECU would not have become a power and would have been a middle of the pack team.

Too many variables and uncertainties to say with any confidence whether or not taking ECU would have saved us from the problems the Big East currently faces.

I think the fair question is why hasnt ECU 'exploded' in CUSA? They have never won a conference title much less grown into a regional power. This notion of 'sleeping giant ECU' is tired. I've been listening to it for the better part of 10 years.

PS. if they came on as a full member they would single handedly knock the Big East from any claim it had to being the premire basketball conference.

We won 2 Liberty Bowl Alliances in 1994 and 1995 which you as well as I know were the equivalent of CUSA. We also finished #2 in CUSA 3 times, and beat more BCS teams OOC than anyone else from the time CUSA started until you left.

As far as your PS. Didn't USF already do that? I guess you could play infront of litterly 1,500 against UCF and be happier.

This Liberty Bowl Alliance thing is another item I get tired of you guys babbling about. It was never the equivalent of a CUSA title. I didn't even know the 'alliance' existed until about a year ago when I read, you guessed it, an ECU fan touting it as one of the zeniths your storied football program had reached on a message board. Finishing in 2nd place means you're the first loser. Congrats.

What does beating BCS teams have to do with anything? You couldn?t win CUSA PERIOD and your basketball program is terrible, men's soccer was just folded due to title 9 issues. ECU is no panacea and certainly does NOT bring enough value to be considered for the 9th.

CatsClaw Wrote:

StillJonesing Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

nflsucks Wrote:

Quote:Had the Big East take us as a football only instead of TEMPLE and we had the BCS like VT in that period we would have exploded as well, and the Big East wouldn't have a lot of the problems now

Had we taken ECU instead of Temple, and had ECU blown up, what would have happened is the ACC would have been strong armed into taking not only VT, but also ECU, with Miami. So maybe we would have kept BC.

Or maybe a powerhouse ECU would have been enough to keep Miami happy in the league.

Or maybe ECU would not have become a power and would have been a middle of the pack team.

Too many variables and uncertainties to say with any confidence whether or not taking ECU would have saved us from the problems the Big East currently faces.

I think the fair question is why hasnt ECU 'exploded' in CUSA? They have never won a conference title much less grown into a regional power. This notion of 'sleeping giant ECU' is tired. I've been listening to it for the better part of 10 years.

PS. if they came on as a full member they would single handedly knock the Big East from any claim it had to being the premire basketball conference.

We won 2 Liberty Bowl Alliances in 1994 and 1995 which you as well as I know were the equivalent of CUSA. We also finished #2 in CUSA 3 times, and beat more BCS teams OOC than anyone else from the time CUSA started until you left.

As far as your PS. Didn't USF already do that? I guess you could play infront of litterly 1,500 against UCF and be happier.

This is the problem a lot of people have. I never understood the notion of trashing an existing Big East program to try and make yours look better.

We already have one problem child so lets add another? Is that his logic?

Adding ECU would hurt the potential of USF - and the entire Big East - a whole lot more than adding ever UCF could.

tigersharktwo Wrote:ITS OVER NO SPLIT.
NO CUSA LEFTOVERS.

I think U are right... with the new TV deal ... no split..

goodknightfl Wrote:

tigersharktwo Wrote:ITS OVER NO SPLIT.
NO CUSA LEFTOVERS.

I think U are right... with the new TV deal ... no split..

Unless you know the details of the new TV deal I wouldn't get excited and say no split. If the deal is only 3 or 4 years in length, which is a very real possibility, then a split is very possible. Also, the deal could have something place in the event of a split where the schools would split into separate conferences but would have cross over game with each other. Again, we don't even know the full worth of the contract and what it says. Also keep in mind, if the Houston Bowl folds and Navy is taking Big East spots in bowls then Notre Dame becomes more and more useless when it comes to negotiating bowls. That would lead to a split. There are a lot more factors to this then an unknown T.V. deal.

The world is not coming to an end.
There will be no cusa leftovers in the BE.
There will be no BE split

tigersharktwo Wrote:The world is not coming to an end.
There will be no cusa leftovers in the BE.
There will be no BE split

LOL! We will see.

tigersharktwo Wrote:The world is not coming to an end.
There will be no cusa leftovers in the BE.
There will be no BE split

Just remember you only have 2 absolutes, Death and Taxes. Anything is possible.

Quote:ust remember you only have 2 absolutes, Death and Taxes. Anything is possible.

Funny sports headline I remember after we beat Rutgers in 2002 I think it was.

"Death, Taxes, and Rutgers"

Lolly Popp Wrote:Adding ECU would hurt the potential of USF - and the entire Big East - a whole lot more than adding ever UCF could.

Really I thought we had taken tens of thousands to bowls before, had an individual TV deal with ESPN and a bowl tie in with the Liberty as an Indy. We are marketable. Come on Holy Cross hater you should know this.

Maize Wrote:

tigersharktwo Wrote:The world is not coming to an end.
There will be no cusa leftovers in the BE.
There will be no BE split

Just remember you only have 2 absolutes, Death and Taxes. Anything is possible.

I don't think a split will happen either now. I do believe that eventually Navy will join the BE for football. I know they are not interested right now but as long as the BE keeps their BCS (Bullshiet Championship Series) bid, Navy would have to think seriously about accepting an invite from the BE.

It is so obvious that the BE needs to split-up but that is the reason why it will not happen; because it is too obvious.

Neither UCF nor ECU would be among my first 2 candidates for BIGEAST expansion. As for a footprint in Florida, USF already provides that.

Any additions, in my mind, must bring something new to the table. If I had to choose between UCF and ECU, I would probably take ECU.

Jim

Lets just see if ECU can have a winning season this year. I remember ECU during the 80's and I can also tell you that Jeff Blake was a friend of mine in high school, that being said, its been ten years since ECU was anything. What is taking them so long to win again. Hell, Army won national championships too, I don't think they are that good and won't be for a long time.

Sir Galahad Wrote:its been ten years since ECU was anything. What is taking them so long to win again.

ECU hasn't been anything for half a decade now. In the late 90's they were nothing special but competitive to an above average non-BCS level.

However, how about letting Holtz have a 2nd year to turn around the program before judging for all time. I mean really, how would UCF fans have liked it if O'Liar was judged forever on his 1st season at his new school? Holtz doesn't even have to pull something off after 0-11, just after 5-6.

This is fun chat for the spring and all....but this fall George O'Leary's football program hits the gridiron again.

I hope these bloggers can tackle.

CatsClaw Wrote:

goodknightfl Wrote:

tigersharktwo Wrote:ITS OVER NO SPLIT.
NO CUSA LEFTOVERS.

I think U are right... with the new TV deal ... no split..

Unless you know the details of the new TV deal I wouldn't get excited and say no split. If the deal is only 3 or 4 years in length, which is a very real possibility, then a split is very possible. Also, the deal could have something place in the event of a split where the schools would split into separate conferences but would have cross over game with each other. Again, we don't even know the full worth of the contract and what it says. Also keep in mind, if the Houston Bowl folds and Navy is taking Big East spots in bowls then Notre Dame becomes more and more useless when it comes to negotiating bowls. That would lead to a split. There are a lot more factors to this then an unknown T.V. deal.

The Big East will not split because the Houston Bowl folds. Get real. This is actually a great opportunity for the Big East to create a new bowl in Tampa ... totally controlled by the Big East for a change ... to replace the Houston Bowl. Bring the Big 12 along and Navy can return to their usual spot in the Poinsettia Bowl. This could be better for us in the long run.

StillJonesing Wrote:Really I thought we had taken tens of thousands to bowls before, had an individual TV deal with ESPN and a bowl tie in with the Liberty as an Indy. We are marketable. Come on Holy Cross hater you should know this.

The Big East might be expanding in the future ... not in the past ... bowl games from a decade ago will not help you. I guess you didn't learn in 2003 when USF, with no bowl history and no TV history, was taken over you. Those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat the past. The Big East is about the future. You keep harping on the past.