(02-19-2013 03:11 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  No Creighton would be stupid.

Just make it Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, and Dayton. It;s what everyone was thinking right when this was announced anyway. We've talked ourselves in circles to make this more complicated than it really is.

Well, I was thinking Xavier, Butler, VCU.

(02-19-2013 03:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 03:11 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  No Creighton would be stupid.

Just make it Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, and Dayton. It;s what everyone was thinking right when this was announced anyway. We've talked ourselves in circles to make this more complicated than it really is.

Well, I was thinking Xavier, Butler, VCU.

You didn't think it would lean private/religious? I automatically thought Creighton + SLU with their ties to Georgetown and Marquette.

I always assumed 12 from the beginning.

What about Xavier, Creighton, SLU and Butler and then stop (dayton is most expendable due to duplicating a market)?

Anyone up for a 20 game round-robin?

(02-19-2013 03:11 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  No Creighton would be stupid.

Just make it Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, and Dayton. It;s what everyone was thinking right when this was announced anyway. We've talked ourselves in circles to make this more complicated than it really is.

Creighton would be stupid but you're including them in your final list?

What am I missing here. Tell me soon because I'm getting a headache.

(02-19-2013 03:20 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  What about Xavier, Creighton, SLU and Butler and then stop (dayton is most expendable due to duplicating a market)?

Anyone up for a 20 game round-robin?

I just don't see a litmus test determining who should be in. I think it's moronic that we're going to pass on a very good program just because they're public. I think that would just reinforce with a lot of folks their preconceived notions about us quite frankly. We need the best of the best. Not the best of the private schools. And it leaves a darn good program for the Aresco conference something we shouldn't want to do at all.

(02-19-2013 03:20 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  What about Xavier, Creighton, SLU and Butler and then stop (dayton is most expendable due to duplicating a market)?

Anyone up for a 20 game round-robin?

I'd add VCU and replace SLU with Creighton. You just can't pass on a program with the kind of support they get. Upon entrance, they immediately lead the league in attendance and #2 isn't within a couple of thousand admissions.

(02-19-2013 04:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I just don't see a litmus test determining who should be in. I think it's moronic that we're going to pass on a very good program just because they're public. I think that would just reinforce with a lot of folks their preconceived notions about us quite frankly. We need the best of the best. Not the best of the private schools. And it leaves a darn good program for the Aresco conference something we shouldn't want to do at all.

Agreed. VCU is a no brainer.

(02-19-2013 03:13 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 03:11 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  No Creighton would be stupid.

Just make it Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, and Dayton. It;s what everyone was thinking right when this was announced anyway. We've talked ourselves in circles to make this more complicated than it really is.

Well, I was thinking Xavier, Butler, VCU.

If it goes to 10, those have been my 3 as well from the get go.

(02-19-2013 04:39 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 03:11 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  No Creighton would be stupid.

Just make it Xavier, Butler, SLU, Creighton, and Dayton. It;s what everyone was thinking right when this was announced anyway. We've talked ourselves in circles to make this more complicated than it really is.

Creighton would be stupid but you're including them in your final list?

What am I missing here. Tell me soon because I'm getting a headache.

No, I said No Creighton would be stupid (i.e., not including Creighton would be a remarkably dumb decision).

(02-19-2013 04:42 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 03:20 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  What about Xavier, Creighton, SLU and Butler and then stop (dayton is most expendable due to duplicating a market)?

Anyone up for a 20 game round-robin?

I'd add VCU and replace SLU with Creighton. You just can't pass on a program with the kind of support they get. Upon entrance, they immediately lead the league in attendance and #2 isn't within a couple of thousand admissions.

Yeah, I included Creighton.

Ultimately, you are left with arguing the merits/problems of Creighton vs Dayton. If someone cared enough that would be kind of a cool table if you had enough to the pertinent factors. As a group, we could assign reasonable weights.

(02-19-2013 05:11 PM)Title Wrote:  Ultimately, you are left with arguing the merits/problems of Creighton vs Dayton. If someone cared enough that would be kind of a cool table if you had enough to the pertinent factors. As a group, we could assign reasonable weights.

Why? Is there another school we're auto including? Dayton, CReighton, SLU, Xavier, and Butler = 12. I guess Richmond, but I really don't see VCU happening

I was specifically told last night that the 5 teams will be Butler, Xavier, Richmond, St Louis, and Dayton.....

If you are really entertaining further conversation about Creighton, Dayton appears to be the obvious one to feel nervous.

Like I said before, I'm not asking anyone to believe that. Its simply what I was told and I don't doubt it to be true

I really don't see Fox excited about Richmond in any fashion at all vs VCU. And I could see them make it worth more $$$ to go with VCU. VCU vs Georgetown, Villanova, St Johns, Butler, Xavier- those games are instant good TV matchups that would be great games.. Richmond vs those schools- no where near as much. Richmond doesn't move the needle at all. VCU would be the 3rd choice I think for Fox quite frankly- after only Butler and Xavier.

If I thought VCU was ever a consideration, I could see where you are coming from. I tend to think you drastically overrate VCU vis-a-vis Richmond from a basketball-perspective but thats neither here nor there. Richmond eclipses VCU in all of the things that presidents like eclipsing.

(02-19-2013 05:33 PM)Title Wrote:  If I thought VCU was ever a consideration, I could see where you are coming from. I tend to think you drastically overrate VCU vis-a-vis Richmond from a basketball-perspective but thats neither here nor there. Richmond eclipses VCU in all of the things that presidents like eclipsing.

I think the thing is how much Fox would view VCU as an asset. I think $$$ talks.

Also, seeing as VCU has been named in stories as a contender I don't think you can just dismiss them out of hand....

I'm not dismissing anyone. I'm just relaying information. Although I can understand the reluctance in adding one school that is an institutional outlier from the rest. If Dayton fall on hard times, they are still Dayton the University.

If VCU falls on hard times. They look like Southern Illinois today. BTW, SIU would be a topic of conversation on these boards for the same reason if this happened a couple years ago. Look at this performance .... http://www.bbstate.com/schools/SIU/tournament

Heck, SIU even hosted ESPN Game Day in Jan 2008 -- http://www.siusalukis.com/sports/m-baskb...08aaa.html

(02-19-2013 05:27 PM)Title Wrote:  I was specifically told last night that the 5 teams will be Butler, Xavier, Richmond, St Louis, and Dayton.....

If you are really entertaining further conversation about Creighton, Dayton appears to be the obvious one to feel nervous.

Like I said before, I'm not asking anyone to believe that. Its simply what I was told and I don't doubt it to be true

I'm not trying to say you are wrong, because I believe it is entirely possible you are right. But what that information tells me is that the C7 Presidents have enough power to control the decision, and that they are going to focus on non-basketball priorities. For instance, look at who would be a possible tournament team next year out of the new conference:

Near Definite (90%): Marquette, Georgetown, Butler
Pretty Good Chance (70%): St. John's, Xavier
Low Chance (30%): Villanova, Providence, Saint Louis
Very Low Chance (10%): DePaul, Seton Hall, Dayton, Richmond

Roughly speaking, I see about 5 bids from that group, but I think you easily see only 3 teams getting into the tournament from that group. Going forward, I would expect the league to trend down from that, with 3-4 good teams a year and a solid 7 teams that consistently underperform.

That league is not a power conference, and has very little chance of becoming a power conference in the future. Honestly, I think the MWC would be better than that conference, and the nBE would be about the same level even with schools like Tulane. The A-10 could become a competitor if Creighton and Wichita State join with VCU.

That may work for the terms of one media deal, but expect a much smaller deal 10 years down the road.

(02-19-2013 06:09 PM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  

(02-19-2013 05:27 PM)Title Wrote:  I was specifically told last night that the 5 teams will be Butler, Xavier, Richmond, St Louis, and Dayton.....

If you are really entertaining further conversation about Creighton, Dayton appears to be the obvious one to feel nervous.

Like I said before, I'm not asking anyone to believe that. Its simply what I was told and I don't doubt it to be true

I'm not trying to say you are wrong, because I believe it is entirely possible you are right. But what that information tells me is that the C7 Presidents have enough power to control the decision, and that they are going to focus on non-basketball priorities. For instance, look at who would be a possible tournament team next year out of the new conference:

Near Definite (90%): Marquette, Georgetown, Butler
Pretty Good Chance (70%): St. John's, Xavier
Low Chance (30%): Villanova, Providence, Saint Louis
Very Low Chance (10%): DePaul, Seton Hall, Dayton, Richmond

Roughly speaking, I see about 5 bids from that group, but I think you easily see only 3 teams getting into the tournament from that group. Going forward, I would expect the league to trend down from that, with 3-4 good teams a year and a solid 7 teams that consistently underperform.

That league is not a power conference, and has very little chance of becoming a power conference in the future. Honestly, I think the MWC would be better than that conference, and the nBE would be about the same level even with schools like Tulane. The A-10 could become a competitor if Creighton and Wichita State join with VCU.

That may work for the terms of one media deal, but expect a much smaller deal 10 years down the road.

Exactly right. Who really thinks the C7 can afford to walk away from Fox right now? They made them an offer they can't refuse for a reason. Fox has one concern, and one concern only: getting the most bang/viewers for their millions of bucks.