Krocker Krapp Wrote:

XLance Wrote:One could say that it was ridiculous thinking to add New Mexico and Wyoming before Memphis or East Carolina, but I'm really not into name calling. And, I will say, I sure don't share your facination with Notre Dame and their "historical independence".
Conference affiliations must make institutional sense and not just geographical convenience.
I think the BCS could stay at 66 until C-USA and/or the Mountain West were ready to join as conferences.
And Krocker it is people like you who explore new ideas and bounce them off of message board fanatics that will help give athletic administrators new blueprints for the future.

I did not call you any names. Put away the Republican Party playbook footnotes on twisting things around when someone says something you do not like. I said it is ridiculous thinking to believe the BCS can limit itself to just 66 schools forever. The BCS will have to add more numbers eventually simply because more teams will be moving up to the FBS level in the future.

I am also not "fascinated" by Notre Dame having historical independence but I am realistic enough to know that there is no reason to try to force them into a football conference. Nor is it realistic to think the Pac-10 will expand to 12 or 16 schools. Some things simply need to be left alone. Prominent on that list of things to just leave alone are Notre Dame and the Pac-10.

I bet fans in the West would also have different opinions about New Mexico or Wyoming. Should the Big 12 should add Memphis and East Carolina instead? Is that the institutional sense of which you speak? History and geography can't be ignored. There is very little chance the ACC or SEC would take those two schools if they expanded the way we have been discussing here.

You are right that the ACC would never invite ECU (the conference just could not work with 5 teams from North Carolina) and Memphis would probably never happen.
Yes leave the PAC 10 alone.
I think you should leave the Big XII alone too.
IMO Notre Dame should be forced to join a conference if they want to continue to be a BCS program.
Did you call me a Republican?

XLance Wrote:You are right that the ACC would never invite ECU (the conference just could not work with 5 teams from North Carolina) and Memphis would probably never happen.
Yes leave the PAC 10 alone.
I think you should leave the Big XII alone too.
IMO Notre Dame should be forced to join a conference if they want to continue to be a BCS program.
Did you call me a Republican?

I did not call you a Republican but, instead, said you seemed to be using footnotes from their playbook. No offense to any actual Republicans out there. The playbook is what it is. If the BCS wants to keep Notre Dame involved as an independent however, that is their right as an organization, and the bowl system is all about free enterprise rather than trying to pigeonhole everyone into the same types of cookie cut cardboard boxes anyway.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

XLance Wrote:You are right that the ACC would never invite ECU (the conference just could not work with 5 teams from North Carolina) and Memphis would probably never happen.
Yes leave the PAC 10 alone.
I think you should leave the Big XII alone too.
IMO Notre Dame should be forced to join a conference if they want to continue to be a BCS program.
Did you call me a Republican?

I did not call you a Republican but, instead, said you seemed to be using footnotes from their playbook. No offense to any actual Republicans out there. The playbook is what it is. If the BCS wants to keep Notre Dame involved as an independent however, that is their right as an organization, and the bowl system is all about free enterprise rather than trying to pigeonhole everyone into the same types of cookie cut cardboard boxes anyway.

First, I don't think that the BCS wants to keep Notre Dame involved as an independent. The BCS does respect Notre Dame, but it does not idolize them, unlike the Bowl Coalition (precursor to the BCS). ND is clinging by a small thread right now, and the ND alumni association knows it, and is very scared that the thread might break at any time. This can be shown in ND's ouster of Kevin White (who is glad to be gone from ND anyway). The moment that ND and conferences like C-USA and the MWC are made equal, and ND starts receiving BCS shares equal to that of those conferences, the ND alumni association will begin hunting for a conference for its football team. Maybe this is all part of the BCS plan, especially with all the teams from Division Championship Series looking to moveup. But this is conjecture on my part.
Second, the reason that the Pac 10 is so opposed to expansion is because that nobody wants to see any of the California schools leave their schedule. Again, let me emphasize that "nobody." All of the Pac 10 schools recruit the state of California heavily, and losing a game with one of the California schools would hurt a Pac 10 team's recruiting.
It is conceivable to that the Big 12 might lose at least one team. That I can see. But it is also just as conceivable to believe that nothing will happen either. 50/50 either way.

Can't see the SEC expanding though. The SEC had its chance back when the Hokies were wanting to leave the BE, and the SEC just sat back and watched the Hokies join the ACC. If the SEC didn't jump on them, I find it hard to believe that the SEC would jump on anybody in the future.

There was a lot of talk about Va. Tech to the SEC before ACC expansion. I can tell you that tha last thing that the ACC wanted was to have to compete with the SEC in a fourth state (Ga., Fla., and SC).
The move by the Virginia governor was more an attempt to protect the ACC from the SEC as it was to assist Va. Tech to get into the ACC. The threat of Va. Tech going to the SEC was enough to convince the ACC to invite Va. Tech and abandon their original expansion plan (with Syracuse).

It's amazing. Over half the d@mn threads are about expansion, or degenerate into such discussion. THIS IS VERY STUPID.

Why not make ONE expansion thread and keep the subject limited to that thread. The myriad of threads is redundant as hell.

Bearcat 1984 Wrote:

bitcruncher Wrote:

gdayre Wrote:One problem, that no one seems to notice, the NCAA was created by Congress and Congress will not grant another organization the rights to govern the colleges and universities across America.

No wonder the NCAA is so screwed up. Anything setup by Congress is doomed from the input of the terminally stupid.

The NCAA was created by Congress???

Answer: No. It wasn't. The NCAA is not part of the government in any way, shape or form. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=1354

There is nothing at all that would keep the BCS schools from leaving the NCAA and forming a new association that would be just as valid as the NCAA.

Oh yes it was. According to ESPN, it was given tax exemption which requires Congress approval.Without the tax exemption, there would be no sport in college nor would their be a pro sports league either. The NCAA was not around until sports was brought into the college games. This action spurted the creation of the NCAA. First report did a show on the NCAA and how it came to be. They said it took an act of Congress to create the NCAA to govern schools and their athletic department. This is what gives Congress the right to comment over the BCS crap today as well as the pro sports. According to ESPN, Congress is who the pro-sports as well as the NCAA answer too. This action also lead to states having governing body over their high schools as well. Who says TV is not informative?

While making it perfectly clear, once again, that I disagree with the idea, here is another possible look at every conference going to 16 teams, which means eight schools have to move up to the FBS level as well.


ACC NORTH
Boston College / Connecticut
Syracuse / Rutgers
West Virginia / Maryland
Virginia / Virginia Tech
ACC SOUTH
North Carolina / Duke
North Carolina State / Wake Forest
Clemson / Georgia Tech
Florida State / Miami


BIG TEN EAST
Penn State / Pittsburgh
Ohio State / Michigan
Michigan State / Notre Dame
Indiana / Purdue
BIG TEN WEST
Illinois / Northwestern
Wisconsin / Minnesota
Iowa / Iowa State
Nebraska / Missouri


MAC EAST
Navy / Delaware
Temple / Army
Buffalo / Kent State
Akron / Ohio
MAC WEST
Toledo / Bowling Green
Miami of Ohio / Ball State
Eastern Michigan / Central Michigan
Western Michigan / Northern Illinois


CONFERENCE USA EAST
Marshall / East Carolina
Memphis / Appalachian State
UAB / Georgia Southern
Florida Atlantic / Florida International
CONFERENCE USA WEST
Southern Mississippi / Tulane
Tulsa / SMU
Houston / Rice
UTSA / UTEP


SEC EAST
Cincinnati / Louisville
Kentucky / Tennessee
Vanderbilt / South Carolina
Georgia / Florida
SEC WEST
Central Florida / South Florida
Alabama / Auburn
Mississippi / Mississippi State
LSU / Arkansas


BIG 12 NORTH
Kansas / Kansas State
Colorado / Colorado State
Air Force / Wyoming
BYU / Utah
BIG 12 SOUTH
New Mexico / Texas Tech
Baylor / TCU
Texas / Texas A&M
Oklahoma / Oklahoma State


NEW SUN BELT EAST
Florida Atlantic / Florida International
Troy / South Alabama
Arkansas State / Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana Tech / Louisiana-Lafayette
NEW SUN BELT WEST
North Texas / Texas State
New Mexico State / Utah State
Fresno State / Sacramento State
San Jose State / San Diego State


PAC-10 EAST
Idaho / Boise State
Nevada / UNLV
Arizona / Arizona State
UC Davis / Hawaii
PAC-10 WEST
Washington / Washington State
Oregon / Oregon State
California / Stanford
USC / UCLA


So there you have it. People get their 8 conferences of 16 teams apiece. Notre Dame, Army, and Navy also get pushed into leagues against their wills and the Pac-10 is forced to join the party against its desires.