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One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #61
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
XLance Wrote:
Krocker Krapp Wrote:
XLance Wrote:Krocker, I agree the plan needs work.
The main reason for Texas & A&M to go to the PAC 10 is to get them to expand in the first place.
The placement of teams is flexible.
I like your movement of Cincinnati to the SEC.
In order for a playoff to function with 64 teams in 4 conferences Notre Dame would have to join a conference. Somebody has to go to get to 64 from 66.
I understood your reasoning. But if there were to be an eight-team playoff, Notre Dame could still be an independent, there would be four autobids and four at-large spots.

There is also an issue of promoting Temple back into the BCS while dumping Baylor and South Florida. Conference USA would have to gain an automatic bid in that scenario.
You wouldn't want C-USA in or MWC either. Too many mouths to feed. The BCS is all about $$.
Temple is out, agreed, I don't think the BCS will tolerate any additions beyond the current 66.
Except for the fact that Temple makes perfect geographical, historical, and marketing sense for an expanded ACC under this type of scenario. How would the BCS be able to justify going from six autobids down to four autobids, even by supersizing, and then implementing a playoff that still locks out half of the bowl subdivision? It would not fly and the potential for renewed Congressional investigations alone make such a possibility very unlikely.
06-05-2008 10:20 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #62
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
Krocker, if we can't increase numbers beyond 66 because of greed and can't go below 66 because of law suits, I guess we are stuck with what we have.
We could stay where we are but I don't think the current 8 team Big East has enough "inventory" to be a long term success as a TV league.
If Notre Dame would join the Big East in football, it would solve everybody's problems. The Big East would have schedule problems solved and will continue to be a great BCS league. But Notre Dame won't join the Big East for football because of ....small stadiums.
That leaves either two leagues with 16, two with 12 and one with 10(you are right, the PAC 10 will always want to stay at 10), or one league with 16, two with 14, one 12 and one 10 team league.

Big 10 (14)
adds Notre Dame
Syracuse
Pitt

SEC (14)
adds Louisville and
Cincinnati (Krocker your call on this is brilliant...it expands the SEC in the only area they could expand with a lot of TV sets...North.

ACC (16)
adds Rutgers
UConn
West Virginia
South Florida

Big XII stays the same

PAC 10 stays the same
06-08-2008 04:52 PM
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bengltgrs Offline
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Post: #63
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
MichaelSavage Wrote:No chance Florida leaves the SEC. Ever. And Texas would be more interested in the Pac 10 or the Big Ten before they would go to the SEC.



You are correct. The SEC made a serious effort to get Texas and Texas A/M to join its conference.....but failed. They also approached some other teams and finally settled for SC and Arkansas.In the current climate it's all about $$$$ and TV markets.
06-08-2008 06:49 PM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #64
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
XLance Wrote:Krocker, if we can't increase numbers beyond 66 because of greed and can't go below 66 because of law suits, I guess we are stuck with what we have.
We could stay where we are but I don't think the current 8 team Big East has enough "inventory" to be a long term success as a TV league.
If Notre Dame would join the Big East in football, it would solve everybody's problems. The Big East would have schedule problems solved and will continue to be a great BCS league. But Notre Dame won't join the Big East for football because of ....small stadiums.
That leaves either two leagues with 16, two with 12 and one with 10(you are right, the PAC 10 will always want to stay at 10), or one league with 16, two with 14, one 12 and one 10 team league.

Big 10 (14)
adds Notre Dame
Syracuse
Pitt

SEC (14)
adds Louisville and
Cincinnati (Krocker your call on this is brilliant...it expands the SEC in the only area they could expand with a lot of TV sets...North.

ACC (16)
adds Rutgers
UConn
West Virginia
South Florida

Big XII stays the same

PAC 10 stays the same
Not bad, XL, but why not expand the BCS up to 75 teams? Let the Fighting Irish keep their precious independence in football and then just have four leagues of 16 teams each and one league with 10 teams.

ACC adds ...
- Connecticut
- Syracuse
- Rutgers
- Temple

SEC adds ...
- Cincinnati
- Louisville
- South Florida
- Central Florida

Big Ten adds ...
- West Virginia
- Pittsburgh
- Iowa State
- Missouri
- Nebraska

Big 12 adds ...
- Colorado State
- Air Force
- Wyoming
- BYU
- Utah
- TCU
- New Mexico

UNLV and San Diego State would be screwed by the Big 12 and MWC but the Pac-10 certainly would not complain. Those two schools would just end up returning to the WAC. Realistic? No. Sensible? Kinda.
06-08-2008 06:50 PM
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catdaddy_2402 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick Wrote:The expansion to 12 barely passed, and, even then, didn’t UVa have its arm basically twisted into a “yes” vote?
If memory serves UVA was always in favor of expansion, that the two fighting it the most were Duke and UNC.

I think what you are talking about is when it was an almost certainty that expansion was going to happen the Commonwealth of Virginia told them they would either support Va Tech for membership or they would find it hard to get funding approved.
06-08-2008 07:03 PM
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catdaddy_2402 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
Quote:The Pac 10 will not expand. Other conferences could go to 14 and they wouldn't budge.
I agree. There isn't anyone close to the PAC10 schools that would bring any value except BYU, and with their policy on no Sunday games they are more trouble than they are worth.
The fact of the matter is that there simply aren't many large tv markets out west that the PAC10 doesn't already control.

Quote:The Big 10 would consider going to 12 or even 14, but there is opposition to a championship game and some only want to expand if it is Notre Dame. I think a few are giving up on waiting for Notre Dame, as there are enough candidates to go to 14 if the Irish change their mind, but the championship game as well as how often teams get Ohio St/Michigan on the schedule are still sticking points. Conference name is probably an issue as well.
It depends on who the Big 10 brings in. I imagine if they expand to 12 with Nebraska that would lessen the pain of the Western Div schools not seeing Ohio State or Michigan every year.

Quote:I just don't see the Big 12 getting bigger. There are some replacement candidates out there, but no one they would grab unless they had to.
Agree. People like to point at TCU...but there is no way the Big XII wants another Texas school. I could possibly see BYU and/or Utah, but it's a stretch, to say the least.

Quote:The SEC would grab Texas and TAMU if they could, but I just don't see it happening. Texas wants strong academic relationships, and the SEC is weak on that. I'm not sure there is enough of a gap in money to make them jump, either. Maybe if there was a lot of money involved and they grabbed Texas, TAMU, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State to be paired in the West with Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss and MSU. It would require a lot of change in common opponents for the last three though.
The SEC tried in the late 80's to grab Texas and A&M, and because Texas balked and A&M isn't going anywhere without Texas they ended up with Arkansas. Maybe if they offer Oklahoma at the same time the Longhorns would be more receptive.
I don't see the SEC wanting Oklahoma State, not Texas Tech and Baylor in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:The ACC expansion was so chaotic last time it left a bad taste in the mouth of many administrators. The expansion did not go near as well as planned, and the Big East (the conference they tried to destroy) is arguably stronger than it was before. Going to 12 teams with BC was a terrible long term move, with Syracuse, UConn, WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers all arguably a better choice. Rutgers, in particular, could have made a great rivalry with Maryland, and they have significant growth potential, enough to make the Big 10 curious. Furthermore, going to 12 let USF into the BCS, which is something Miami did not want. Right now the ACC can't even decide on a long term location for their championship game, although I think they may settle with Charlotte eventually. The ACC might one day grab two schools to go to 14, but I think it will take someone else making a move or a lot of time before it happens.
Had things gone as planned IMO both the ACC and the Big East would be in much better shape today. Despite the rhetoric on this board, the ACC never wanted to "destroy" the Big East. If that would have been the case they would have went after Virginia Tech to begin with. The original expansion plan would have left the Big East in stronger football shape initially, but the State of Virginia stepped in and forced us to take the Hokies.


Quote:Since when did the acc invent what is known as the bcs? I have always read that it was the brainchild of Roy Kramer, the old SEC comissioner. He then proceeded to get the other leagues on board. But this is the first time that I have heard that the bcs was the invention of the acc, and interesting enough, its an acc fan who is making such a claim.
The ACC did create the Bowl Alliance for the exact reasons XLance posted. The ACC didn't have a bowl agreement in place for it's champion until 1988 when it signed with the Citrus Bowl (now Capital One) In 1980 a top 10, 11 win ACC Champ UNC team played a 7 win Texas team in the Bluebonnet Bowl. The ACC wasn't going to see that happen again.
The BCS was created by Roy Kramer when he was running the SEC, but it was an evolution of the Bowl Alliance/Bowl Coalition.

Quote:I don't think the BCS will tolerate any additions beyond the current 66.
How many the BCS tolerates will be directly proportional to what the NCAA does as far as the current moratorium on moving between divisions (DII to DI) and subdivisions (Div I-FCS to Div I-FBS) If they essentially do nothing then there will be enough teams set to move up that the BCS conference will be in the minority, especially if the proposed moves in this thread eliminates a conference or two. The BCS might have no choice but to add CUSA and the MWC to the party. IMO it's going to be enough of a financial windfall that everybody will still be making a lot more money than they are right now, because you'll have the playoff system and still have the bowl exibitions you already have.
06-08-2008 07:40 PM
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CatsClaw Offline
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Post: #67
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
DFW HOYA Wrote:Some of you spend way too much time on this...

I agree.
06-08-2008 09:27 PM
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Bearcats#1 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
CatsClaw Wrote:
DFW HOYA Wrote:Some of you spend way too much time on this...

I agree.

Ditto...and for gosh sakes one I saw somebody has UC and I think UofL in the MAC?!?! No way.
06-08-2008 10:48 PM
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Crimsonelf Offline
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Post: #69
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
Bearcats#1 Wrote:
CatsClaw Wrote:
DFW HOYA Wrote:Some of you spend way too much time on this...

I agree.

Ditto...and for gosh sakes one I saw somebody has UC and I think UofL in the MAC?!?! No way.

03-lmfao It's practically unbelievable how much disrespect our schools get sometimes, though it's nothing new... 01-lauramac2
06-09-2008 02:54 AM
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SoCalPanther Offline
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Post: #70
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
catdaddy_2402 Wrote:Despite the rhetoric on this board, the ACC never wanted to "destroy" the Big East. If that would have been the case they would have went after Virginia Tech to begin with.

And yet no matter how many times it is said, it doesn't ring true. The ACC did WANT to destroy the BE. Do you not know why they went after SU and BC (Miami was the prize) - especially at the June 30 deadline? By doing so, they would have left the BE at 5 teams (when you need 6 teams to be a 1A conference as mandated by the NCAA). Also, they would have hit the BE right before they would have started negotiations for a new TV contract - right when the BE just had tremendous success in FB and BB after a down period when the previous TV contract was negotiated.

The ACC wanted to be viewed as THE East Coast Conference. In order to be successful - by definition - required the BE to be destroyed or at a minimum severely weakened.
(This post was last modified: 06-09-2008 04:09 AM by SoCalPanther.)
06-09-2008 04:01 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #71
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
Scratch that idea, Hoquista. 05-mafia
06-09-2008 08:40 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #72
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
Krocker, 75 is just too many. It defeats the purpose of the BCS, you might as well have all 117 of the D1 teams.
I really don't care about Notre Dame, but if they don't join a conference it messes up the numbers and at least one other team would have to be invited, and we would have to re-shuffle. Personally, I think they (Notre Dame) joining a conference would be good for Notre Dame football (but that is for another time).
I'm still saying 5 leagues with one 16, two 14, one twelve and one ten. From a marketing standpoint it's pretty solid.
Then it leaves a lot of really great teams for the 16 team C-USA that Terry Holland envisioned.
(This post was last modified: 06-09-2008 05:02 PM by XLance.)
06-09-2008 04:58 PM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #73
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
XLance Wrote:Krocker, 75 is just too many. It defeats the purpose of the BCS, you might as well have all 117 of the D1 teams.
I really don't care about Notre Dame, but if they don't join a conference it messes up the numbers and at least one other team would have to be invited, and we would have to re-shuffle. Personally, I think they (Notre Dame) joining a conference would be good for Notre Dame football (but that is for another time).
I'm still saying 5 leagues with one 16, two 14, one twelve and one ten. From a marketing standpoint it's pretty solid.
Then it leaves a lot of really great teams for the 16 team C-USA that Terry Holland envisioned.
That is ridiculous thinking. First of all there are 120 FBS teams. You need to also remember that FCS schools have "D1 teams" as well. The way you think is exactly the kind of selfish greed that might end up destroying the BCS.

You want the BCS to stay at 66 teams forever? So what happens when 15 more teams move up from FCS into FBS, the non-autobid teams gain a numerical voting majority, and the NCAA institutes a playoff controlled by itself?

That is what will end up happening if the BCS were to listen to people like you. There is nothing wrong with four leagues of 16, one league of 10, and one historical independent if such a thing were to ever take place in real life.
06-09-2008 06:30 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #74
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
Krocker Krapp Wrote:
XLance Wrote:Krocker, 75 is just too many. It defeats the purpose of the BCS, you might as well have all 117 of the D1 teams.
I really don't care about Notre Dame, but if they don't join a conference it messes up the numbers and at least one other team would have to be invited, and we would have to re-shuffle. Personally, I think they (Notre Dame) joining a conference would be good for Notre Dame football (but that is for another time).
I'm still saying 5 leagues with one 16, two 14, one twelve and one ten. From a marketing standpoint it's pretty solid.
Then it leaves a lot of really great teams for the 16 team C-USA that Terry Holland envisioned.
That is ridiculous thinking. First of all there are 120 FBS teams. You need to also remember that FCS schools have "D1 teams" as well. The way you think is exactly the kind of selfish greed that might end up destroying the BCS.

You want the BCS to stay at 66 teams forever? So what happens when 15 more teams move up from FCS into FBS, the non-autobid teams gain a numerical voting majority, and the NCAA institutes a playoff controlled by itself?

That is what will end up happening if the BCS were to listen to people like you. There is nothing wrong with four leagues of 16, one league of 10, and one historical independent if such a thing were to ever take place in real life.

One could say that it was ridiculous thinking to add New Mexico and Wyoming before Memphis or East Carolina, but I'm really not into name calling. And, I will say, I sure don't share your facination with Notre Dame and their "historical independence".
Conference affiliations must make institutional sense and not just geographical convenience.
I think the BCS could stay at 66 until C-USA and/or the Mountain West were ready to join as conferences.
And Krocker it is people like you who explore new ideas and bounce them off of message board fanatics that will help give athletic administrators new blueprints for the future.
06-11-2008 08:01 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #75
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
CatsClaw Wrote:
DFW HOYA Wrote:Some of you spend way too much time on this...

I agree.

Ditto 04-cheers
06-11-2008 09:04 PM
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Krocker Krapp Offline
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Post: #76
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
XLance Wrote:One could say that it was ridiculous thinking to add New Mexico and Wyoming before Memphis or East Carolina, but I'm really not into name calling. And, I will say, I sure don't share your facination with Notre Dame and their "historical independence".
Conference affiliations must make institutional sense and not just geographical convenience.
I think the BCS could stay at 66 until C-USA and/or the Mountain West were ready to join as conferences.
And Krocker it is people like you who explore new ideas and bounce them off of message board fanatics that will help give athletic administrators new blueprints for the future.
I did not call you any names. Put away the Republican Party playbook footnotes on twisting things around when someone says something you do not like. I said it is ridiculous thinking to believe the BCS can limit itself to just 66 schools forever. The BCS will have to add more numbers eventually simply because more teams will be moving up to the FBS level in the future.

I am also not "fascinated" by Notre Dame having historical independence but I am realistic enough to know that there is no reason to try to force them into a football conference. Nor is it realistic to think the Pac-10 will expand to 12 or 16 schools. Some things simply need to be left alone. Prominent on that list of things to just leave alone are Notre Dame and the Pac-10.

I bet fans in the West would also have different opinions about New Mexico or Wyoming. Should the Big 12 should add Memphis and East Carolina instead? Is that the institutional sense of which you speak? History and geography can't be ignored. There is very little chance the ACC or SEC would take those two schools if they expanded the way we have been discussing here.
06-11-2008 10:35 PM
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Bearcat 1984 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
bitcruncher Wrote:
gdayre Wrote:One problem, that no one seems to notice, the NCAA was created by Congress and Congress will not grant another organization the rights to govern the colleges and universities across America.
No wonder the NCAA is so screwed up. Anything setup by Congress is doomed from the input of the terminally stupid.

The NCAA was created by Congress??? 04-jawdrop

Answer: No. It wasn't. The NCAA is not part of the government in any way, shape or form. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=1354

There is nothing at all that would keep the BCS schools from leaving the NCAA and forming a new association that would be just as valid as the NCAA.
06-11-2008 11:09 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #78
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
Bearcat 1984 Wrote:
bitcruncher Wrote:
gdayre Wrote:One problem, that no one seems to notice, the NCAA was created by Congress and Congress will not grant another organization the rights to govern the colleges and universities across America.
No wonder the NCAA is so screwed up. Anything setup by Congress is doomed from the input of the terminally stupid.
The NCAA was created by Congress??? 04-jawdrop

Answer: No. It wasn't. The NCAA is not part of the government in any way, shape or form. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=1354

There is nothing at all that would keep the BCS schools from leaving the NCAA and forming a new association that would be just as valid as the NCAA.
That doesn't change the truth of my statement. The NCAA is doomed from the input of the terminally stupid - unless they end up dumping the BCS.
06-12-2008 07:51 AM
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Post: #79
RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
DFW HOYA Wrote:Some of you spend way too much time on this...

I don't see the problem... 07-coffee3
06-12-2008 08:04 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: One man's view on the SEC doing a "hostile takeover:" of college football
DFW HOYA Wrote:Some of you spend way too much time on this...
My sentiments exactly. :ncaabbs:
06-12-2008 08:22 AM
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