chess
The reality is that a playoff would be 8 treams to start and having a super conferences like that would mean ALL would split playoof slots evenly.
So you think that the SEC would expand to 14 or 16 teams to have 2 teams in playoffs? Hell they get 2 in BCS almost yearly with only 12 teams.
The SEC knows full well that as the strongest league recognize by computers their champion will have a good shot yearly at BCS championship and another team at an at large

If conferences really wanted to gut the BE/Indys/Non-BCS for exansion - they potentially could expand with just 5 (+1) teams and cover just about everything. Those teams would be:

UConn
RU (assuming they continue to draw well in in NJ and NYC)
SU
ND
BYU
+ 1 more

I think the rest of the BE should find a place somewhere (if not in the BE) but you just never know. These days exansion is about TVs delivered to a conference network.

Interesting point that is brought up. While there are many flaws...there also is a lot to think about there. The future is very blurry.

I can't believe people still believe that the ACC or SEC or Big Ten will expand to 14 or 16 and that it would become an "economical reality". These conferences are doing just fine without having to expand.

Chess is making sense if conferences really wanted to go that route. Imagine the following scenario with every conference except the Pac-10 deciding to expand. The Big East, MWC, and WAC would be destroyed in the process - unfortunately - but at least every school lands somewhere sensible.


ACC NORTH
Boston College / Connecticut
Syracuse / Rutgers
Temple / Maryland
Virginia / Virginia Tech
ACC SOUTH
North Carolina / Duke
North Carolina State / Wake Forest
Clemson / Georgia Tech
Florida State / Miami


BIG TEN EAST
West Virginia / Pittsburgh
Penn State / Michigan State
Michigan / Ohio State
Indiana / Purdue
BIG TEN WEST
Illinois / Northwestern
Wisconsin / Minnesota
Iowa / Iowa State
Nebraska / Missouri


SEC EAST
Kentucky / Tennessee
Vanderbilt / South Carolina
Georgia / Florida
Alabama / Auburn
SEC WEST
Mississippi / Mississippi State
LSU / Arkansas
Texas / Texas A&M
Oklahoma / Oklahoma State


BIG 12 EAST
Kansas / Kansas State
Colorado / Colorado State
Air Force / Texas Tech
TCU / Baylor
BIG 12 WEST
Wyoming / Boise State
BYU / Utah
Nevada / UNLV
San Diego State / Fresno State


PAC-10
Washington / Washington State
Oregon / Oregon State
California / Stanford
USC / UCLA
Arizona / Arizona State


CONFERENCE USA EAST
East Carolina / Marshall
Cincinnati / Louisville
Memphis / UAB
South Florida / Central Florida
CONFERENCE USA WEST
Southern Mississippi / Tulane
Tulsa / SMU
Houston / Rice
UTSA / UTEP


MAC EAST
Buffalo
Akron / Kent State
Ohio / Miami of Ohio
Western Kentucky / Middle Tennessee
MAC WEST
Bowling Green / Toledo
Eastern Michigan / Central Michigan
Western Michigan / Ball State
Northern Illinois


SUN BELT EAST
Florida Atlantic / Florida International
Troy / South Alabama
Louisiana-Lafayette / Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana Tech / Arkansas State
SUN BELT WEST
North Texas / Texas State
New Mexico / New Mexico State
Utah State / Idaho
San Jose State / Sacramento State


INDEPENDENTS
Army / Navy
Notre Dame / Hawaii


That is six leagues of 16, one league of 14, one league of 10, and four independents. Apologies to Cincinnati, Louisville, and USF but I did the best I could based on the original premise by Chess. If a playoff was started and every league got an auto-bid, though, it would be a lot less disappointing.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Chess is making sense if conferences really wanted to go that route. Imagine the following scenario with every conference except the Pac-10 deciding to expand. The Big East, MWC, and WAC would be destroyed in the process - unfortunately - but at least every school lands somewhere sensible.


ACC NORTH
Boston College / Connecticut
Syracuse / Rutgers
Temple / Maryland
Virginia / Virginia Tech
ACC SOUTH
North Carolina / Duke
North Carolina State / Wake Forest
Clemson / Georgia Tech
Florida State / Miami


BIG TEN EAST
West Virginia / Pittsburgh
Penn State / Michigan State
Michigan / Ohio State
Indiana / Purdue
BIG TEN WEST
Illinois / Northwestern
Wisconsin / Minnesota
Iowa / Iowa State
Nebraska / Missouri


SEC EAST
Kentucky / Tennessee
Vanderbilt / South Carolina
Georgia / Florida
Alabama / Auburn
SEC WEST
Mississippi / Mississippi State
LSU / Arkansas
Texas / Texas A&M
Oklahoma / Oklahoma State


BIG 12 EAST
Kansas / Kansas State
Colorado / Colorado State
Air Force / Texas Tech
TCU / Baylor
BIG 12 WEST
Wyoming / Boise State
BYU / Utah
Nevada / UNLV
San Diego State / Fresno State


PAC-10
Washington / Washington State
Oregon / Oregon State
California / Stanford
USC / UCLA
Arizona / Arizona State


CONFERENCE USA EAST
East Carolina / Marshall
Cincinnati / Louisville
Memphis / UAB
South Florida / Central Florida
CONFERENCE USA WEST
Southern Mississippi / Tulane
Tulsa / SMU
Houston / Rice
UTSA / UTEP


MAC EAST
Buffalo
Akron / Kent State
Ohio / Miami of Ohio
Western Kentucky / Middle Tennessee
MAC WEST
Bowling Green / Toledo
Eastern Michigan / Central Michigan
Western Michigan / Ball State
Northern Illinois


SUN BELT EAST
Florida Atlantic / Florida International
Troy / South Alabama
Louisiana-Lafayette / Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana Tech / Arkansas State
SUN BELT WEST
North Texas / Texas State
New Mexico / New Mexico State
Utah State / Idaho
San Jose State / Sacramento State


INDEPENDENTS
Army / Navy
Notre Dame / Hawaii


That is six leagues of 16, one league of 14, one league of 10, and four independents. Apologies to Cincinnati, Louisville, and USF but I did the best I could based on the original premise by Chess. If a playoff was started and every league got an auto-bid, though, it would be a lot less disappointing.

You're a braver poster than I, Gunga Krocker.

chess Wrote:

MongoSlade Wrote:I didn't say Florida would "jump".. I just stated that I believe the ACC would make an overture.

I absolutely agree that the ACC would send feelers out to Florida (and Georgia).

In addition, I think the ACC could send feelers out to Penn State, Syracuse, Rutgers, and Connecticut.

If conferences start considering that...
1. Fewer conferences are better than more
2. To leave the NCAA and form a new body
3. Create a championship playoff for football.

They may start eating themselves.

I think many on this board underestimate universities' academic missions.

I ask you to consider what the Big Ten did for Penn State and what the ACC did for Florida State. Both schools went up in academic prestige and money.

I also think the Big XII could have some challenges. They have the smaller markets of the BCS conferences.

So if such a bloated mess came together, we'd look at divisions of the following:
North
Rutgers, Connecticut, Penn State, Syracuse, Boston College, Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech

South
UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake, Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Georgia Tech

I'm guessing a 9 game conference schedule where you play your whole division once and rotate 2 games home and away through the other division. In a way it'd make more sense than what goes on now. I would think however that going to 18 makes more sense and add WVU and Pitt to the north division and throw Virginia in the south division. 9 conference games play the whole division once and rotate a single game home and away through the other division. Championship game pits the division winners against each other, yada yada.
In hoops we'd have an 18 game conference schedule you rotate through your division in a double round robin format and play two teams rotating home and away through the other division.

One of the things that Swofford said coming out of the ACC meetings this spring was that the conference needed to increase its "inventory" (that is conference team vs conference team because it was a marketable product than a conference opponent vs non-conference opponent). More teams mean more inventory.

omnicarrier Wrote:You're a braver poster than I, Gunga Krocker.

LOL. You know someone was bound to do it. At least with me you can be sure there is some kind of logic behind any imaginary scenario even if certain people are going to vehemently disagree with the result.

omnicarrier Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Chess is making sense if conferences really wanted to go that route. Imagine the following scenario with every conference except the Pac-10 deciding to expand. The Big East, MWC, and WAC would be destroyed in the process - unfortunately - but at least every school lands somewhere sensible.


ACC NORTH
Boston College / Connecticut
Syracuse / Rutgers
Temple / Maryland
Virginia / Virginia Tech
ACC SOUTH
North Carolina / Duke
North Carolina State / Wake Forest
Clemson / Georgia Tech
Florida State / Miami


BIG TEN EAST
West Virginia / Pittsburgh
Penn State / Michigan State
Michigan / Ohio State
Indiana / Purdue
BIG TEN WEST
Illinois / Northwestern
Wisconsin / Minnesota
Iowa / Iowa State
Nebraska / Missouri


SEC EAST
Kentucky / Tennessee
Vanderbilt / South Carolina
Georgia / Florida
Alabama / Auburn
SEC WEST
Mississippi / Mississippi State
LSU / Arkansas
Texas / Texas A&M
Oklahoma / Oklahoma State


BIG 12 EAST
Kansas / Kansas State
Colorado / Colorado State
Air Force / Texas Tech
TCU / Baylor
BIG 12 WEST
Wyoming / Boise State
BYU / Utah
Nevada / UNLV
San Diego State / Fresno State


PAC-10
Washington / Washington State
Oregon / Oregon State
California / Stanford
USC / UCLA
Arizona / Arizona State


CONFERENCE USA EAST
East Carolina / Marshall
Cincinnati / Louisville
Memphis / UAB
South Florida / Central Florida
CONFERENCE USA WEST
Southern Mississippi / Tulane
Tulsa / SMU
Houston / Rice
UTSA / UTEP


MAC EAST
Buffalo
Akron / Kent State
Ohio / Miami of Ohio
Western Kentucky / Middle Tennessee
MAC WEST
Bowling Green / Toledo
Eastern Michigan / Central Michigan
Western Michigan / Ball State
Northern Illinois


SUN BELT EAST
Florida Atlantic / Florida International
Troy / South Alabama
Louisiana-Lafayette / Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana Tech / Arkansas State
SUN BELT WEST
North Texas / Texas State
New Mexico / New Mexico State
Utah State / Idaho
San Jose State / Sacramento State


INDEPENDENTS
Army / Navy
Notre Dame / Hawaii


That is six leagues of 16, one league of 14, one league of 10, and four independents. Apologies to Cincinnati, Louisville, and USF but I did the best I could based on the original premise by Chess. If a playoff was started and every league got an auto-bid, though, it would be a lot less disappointing.

You're a braver poster than I, Gunga Krocker.

Mommy, I'm not feeling so well

SEC is land locked, ACC & B-10 pay more money, Tex doesn't want to join. Any mega-conf that starts will be merger between B-12 & Pac-10. SEC needs basketball & baseball revenue to improve.
If SEC decides to move to 14, West Va & Hous have best shot

1st mega conf
Tex-USC
TexA&M-UCLA
TexT-Cali
Okla-Stan
Colo-ArizSt
Missouri-Wash
Kansas-Oregon

ACC makes next move by going after NYC, B-10 realize they have to make move or forever lose NYC market. Syc-B-10, Rutgers & Conn -ACC
SEC last hope for Tex market is Hous & TCU, Mia would think about improved atten at FB games. Pickens will throw money at SEC for Okla St. West Va too good program to pass up with Huggins making WV BB power.

B-12 looks east in hope of keeping BCS bid
Louv-Neb
Cin-IowaSt
Pitt-KSU
USF-OSU
Memphis-Baylor
UCF-TCU

Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick Wrote:The expansion to 12 barely passed, and, even then, didn’t UVa have its arm basically twisted into a “yes” vote?

I don't think UVa was necessarily opposed to a 12-team league on principle, but they were dead-set against VPI. My understanding is that political/financial pressure within the Commonwealth's General Assembly had to be applied.

The big 12 makes good money...a notch below the big 10, sec, and acc but still above the pac 10. Now i could see missouri go to the big 10 which might open up everything in regards to the big 12 but really, they pop BYU or utah in as a replacement and they a still fine. Bottom line, i don't ever see texas or texas A&M leaving the big 12 and if they don't leave, the sec isn't ever gonna expand. As for the other mergers...for any league to get above 12 teams, they are gonna need to bring in huge markets or ND. That could apply to the ACC with 2 from cuse, rutgers, uconn, etc. Also, the big 10 with cuse, rutgers, and ND. Yet, when you get above 12 it really dilutes the league and in effect creates two leagues so odds are it won't happen.

The Pac 10 will not expand. Other conferences could go to 14 and they wouldn't budge.

The Big 10 would consider going to 12 or even 14, but there is opposition to a championship game and some only want to expand if it is Notre Dame. I think a few are giving up on waiting for Notre Dame, as there are enough candidates to go to 14 if the Irish change their mind, but the championship game as well as how often teams get Ohio St/Michigan on the schedule are still sticking points. Conference name is probably an issue as well.

I just don't see the Big 12 getting bigger. There are some replacement candidates out there, but no one they would grab unless they had to.

The SEC would grab Texas and TAMU if they could, but I just don't see it happening. Texas wants strong academic relationships, and the SEC is weak on that. I'm not sure there is enough of a gap in money to make them jump, either. Maybe if there was a lot of money involved and they grabbed Texas, TAMU, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State to be paired in the West with Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss and MSU. It would require a lot of change in common opponents for the last three though.

The ACC expansion was so chaotic last time it left a bad taste in the mouth of many administrators. The expansion did not go near as well as planned, and the Big East (the conference they tried to destroy) is arguably stronger than it was before. Going to 12 teams with BC was a terrible long term move, with Syracuse, UConn, WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers all arguably a better choice. Rutgers, in particular, could have made a great rivalry with Maryland, and they have significant growth potential, enough to make the Big 10 curious. Furthermore, going to 12 let USF into the BCS, which is something Miami did not want. Right now the ACC can't even decide on a long term location for their championship game, although I think they may settle with Charlotte eventually. The ACC might one day grab two schools to go to 14, but I think it will take someone else making a move or a lot of time before it happens.

The Big East....well, we all know how that is going.

For conference movement to happen, it takes one or more parties daring or desperate enough to make huge changes and pull the trigger. Right now, there just doesn't appear to be enough of those feelings in any BCS conference. I will say I think the two most likely in the next 10 years are the Big East splitting/expanding and the Big 10 going to 12.

BullsFanatic Wrote:The Pac 10 will not expand. Other conferences could go to 14 and they wouldn't budge.

Exactly and that is why I left the Pac-10 alone in the wacky mass realignment scenario posted above. They are a rock.

BullsFanatic Wrote:The ACC expansion was so chaotic last time it left a bad taste in the mouth of many administrators. The expansion did not go near as well as planned, and the Big East (the conference they tried to destroy) is arguably stronger than it was before. Going to 12 teams with BC was a terrible long term move, with Syracuse, UConn, WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers all arguably a better choice. Rutgers, in particular, could have made a great rivalry with Maryland, and they have significant growth potential, enough to make the Big 10 curious.

Syracuse or UConn alone would be just as bad as BC alone, Pitt and WVU were never considered, but Rutgers makes a little bit of sense. The ACC was thinking in terms of football only, though, or Temple would have made geographic sense and still added a Northeast market. It would have been even better for us Big East fans, too, because the ACC would suck in football even worse than they already ended up doing.

BullsFanatic Wrote:For conference movement to happen, it takes one or more parties daring or desperate enough to make huge changes and pull the trigger. Right now, there just doesn't appear to be enough of those feelings in any BCS conference. I will say I think the two most likely in the next 10 years are the Big East splitting/expanding and the Big 10 going to 12.

I agree. The Big 10 could grab a Big 12 team or a Big East team. Both leagues could bounce back pretty simply though.

This is one of the gayest expansion threads I've ever seen....reality-o-meter: zero