(03-25-2024 07:49 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 07:21 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Surprising, FSU is in good company. I thought Marquette would have been a bit higher.

Florida State shares their grouping of 5 Sweet 16 appearances with:
- Georgia Tech: 2 Final Fours (1 Runner-Up)
- Marquette: 1 Final Four
- Oklahoma St: 2 Final Fours
- UNLV: 3 Final Fours (1 Championship)
- Utah: 1 Final Four (1 Runner-Up)
- Virginia: 1 Final Four (1 Championship)

The most Sweet 16 appearances without a Final Four appearances brings to Alabama and Xavier with 9.

Purdue has 12 in this timeframe without a Final Four. Their last Final Four was in 1980.

(03-26-2024 09:37 AM)tf8693 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 07:49 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 07:21 AM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Surprising, FSU is in good company. I thought Marquette would have been a bit higher.

Florida State shares their grouping of 5 Sweet 16 appearances with:
- Georgia Tech: 2 Final Fours (1 Runner-Up)
- Marquette: 1 Final Four
- Oklahoma St: 2 Final Fours
- UNLV: 3 Final Fours (1 Championship)
- Utah: 1 Final Four (1 Runner-Up)
- Virginia: 1 Final Four (1 Championship)

The most Sweet 16 appearances without a Final Four appearances brings to Alabama and Xavier with 9.

Purdue has 12 in this timeframe without a Final Four. Their last Final Four was in 1980.

Shoot, you’re right. Good catch!

(03-25-2024 04:25 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 04:22 PM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  The MW didn't exist between 1985-1998. Best way to get at this is to calculate per capita S16 appearances by year over the last ten years. Otherwise there is no perspective taken into account, like total count of bids.

Obviously, it didn't exist. Unless you spend hours and hours trying to come up with a more correct formulaic way to create these numbers, this is the option I went with.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be mean. I just think measuring the productivity on a per team basis instead of in gross is a better metric for conf production since it removes the impact of getting lots of bids. Likely it would show how truly unproductive the MW is outside of SDSU.

(03-26-2024 10:30 AM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 04:25 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 04:22 PM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  The MW didn't exist between 1985-1998. Best way to get at this is to calculate per capita S16 appearances by year over the last ten years. Otherwise there is no perspective taken into account, like total count of bids.

Obviously, it didn't exist. Unless you spend hours and hours trying to come up with a more correct formulaic way to create these numbers, this is the option I went with.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be mean. I just think measuring the productivity on a per team basis instead of in gross is a better metric for conf production since it removes the impact of getting lots of bids. Likely it would show how truly unproductive the MW is outside of SDSU.

You're definitely right about SDSU. They stick out like a golden goose in the MWC - especially in the last decade plus. UNLV is the biggest "MWC fraud" because they have 6/13 MWC Sweet 16 appearances but 5/6 were in the Big West.

Top 16 teams with Sweet Sixteen appearances in last 10 tournaments:

9 Gonzaga
6 Duke
6 Michigan
6 UCLA
6 UNC
5 Arizona
5 Houston
5 Kentucky
5 Purdue
4 Iowa State
4 Kansas
4 Michigan State
4 Oregon
4 Tennessee
4 Villanova
4 Wisconsin

P6 Won-Lost records last 10 NCAA tournaments:

Pct....Conf...W-L

.657...ACC..113-59
.588...PAC...60-42
.581...BE.....61-44
.578...SEC...78-57
.576...B12...87-64
.569...B1G...91-69

(03-26-2024 07:34 PM)ken d Wrote:  Top 16 teams with Sweet Sixteen appearances in last 10 tournaments:

9 Gonzaga
6 Duke
6 Michigan
6 UCLA
6 UNC
5 Arizona
5 Houston
5 Kentucky
5 Purdue
4 Iowa State
4 Kansas
4 Michigan State
4 Oregon
4 Tennessee
4 Villanova
4 Wisconsin

So, using just this list with future alignment...

Conferences by number of schools:
6 - B1G
4 - XII
2 - ACC, SEC
1 - Big East, WCC

Conferences by number of appearances:
29 - B1G
18 - XII
15 - ACC
9 - SEC, WCC
4 - Big East

(03-26-2024 07:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  P6 Won-Lost records last 10 NCAA tournaments:

Pct....Conf...W-L

.657...ACC..113-59
.588...PAC...60-42
.581...BE.....61-44
.578...SEC...78-57
.576...B12...87-64
.569...B1G...91-69

So much for the Big 12 being the best conference in men's basketball.
Big 10's embarrassing. We have to do better.

(03-26-2024 09:41 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(03-26-2024 07:34 PM)ken d Wrote:  Top 16 teams with Sweet Sixteen appearances in last 10 tournaments:

9 Gonzaga
6 Duke
6 Michigan
6 UCLA
6 UNC
5 Arizona
5 Houston
5 Kentucky
5 Purdue
4 Iowa State
4 Kansas
4 Michigan State
4 Oregon
4 Tennessee
4 Villanova
4 Wisconsin

So, using just this list with future alignment...

Conferences by number of schools:
6 - B1G
4 - XII
2 - ACC, SEC
1 - Big East, WCC

Conferences by number of appearances:
29 - B1G
18 - XII
15 - ACC
9 - SEC, WCC
4 - Big East

Since this is only the top 16 schools by appearance, it doesn't measure total Sweet Sixteen appearances by conference during those 10 years. That future alignment list would be (#of different schools/# of conference members):

34 ACC (12/18)
33 B1G (10/18)
30 B12 (9/16)
25 SEC (11/16)
16 BE (7/11)

(03-25-2024 01:48 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Appearances by Conference (Future Affiliation - incl. Oregon St and Washington St with WCC):
140 - ACC
123 - B1G
104 - SEC
95 - XII
69 - Big East
20 - AAC
18 - WCC
15 - A10
13 - MWC
7 - MAC
6 - MVC
5 - CUSA
2 - Horizon, Ivy
1 - ASUN, MAAC, Patriot, SoCon, Summit

Appearances by School:
27 - Duke
25 - North Carolina
23 - Kansas, Kentucky
19 - Arizona
17 - Michigan St, UCLA
16 - Connecticut, Syracuse
14 - Gonzaga, Louisville
12 - Michigan, Purdue
11 - Florida
10 - Indiana, Oklahoma, Villanova, Wisconsin
9 - Alabama, Arkansas, Maryland, Xavier
8 - Georgetown, Ohio St, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia
7 - Illinois, Iowa St, Memphis, North Carolina St, Oregon
6 - Florida St, Georgia Tech, Marquette, Oklahoma St, UNLV, Utah, Virginia
5 - Auburn, Baylor, Butler, Cincinnati, Houston, LSU, Miami (FL), Pittsburgh, Stanford, Temple, Texas Tech
4 - Clemson, Kansas St, Missouri, Notre Dame, San Diego St, Seton Hall, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Washington
3 - Boston College, Creighton, Iowa, Loyola - Chicago, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Providence, St. John's, Texas A&M, Tulsa, USC, Wichita St
2 - California, DePaul, Mississippi St, Nevada, Rhode Island, Richmond, Southern Illinois, St. Joseph's, Western Kentucky
1 - Arizona St, Ball St, Bradley, BYU, Chattanooga, Cleveland St, Cornell, Davidson, Dayton, Eastern Michigan, Florida Atlantic, Florida Gulf Coast, George Mason, George Washington, Georgia, La Salle, Louisiana Tech, Loyola Marymount, Miami (OH), Milwaukee, Mississippi, Missouri St, Navy, New Mexico St, Northern Iowa, Ohio, Oral Roberts, Oregon St, Penn St, Princeton, South Carolina, St. Mary's, St. Peter's, UAB, UTEP, Valparaiso, VCU, Virginia Tech, Washington St, Wyoming

Big 5 Conference Schools with 0 Sweet 16 Appearances:
ACC - SMU
B1G - Nebraska, Northwestern, Rutgers
Big East - (none)
SEC - (none)
XII - Central Florida, Colorado, TCU

------------------------------------------------------------

Observations:
- The gap between the Big 5 and the Middle 4 (A10, AAC, MWC, WCC) is massive.
- I am presuming the gap between the Big East and the other Big 5 conferences is due in part to it having 11 schools and the others having 16+ schools.
- The SBC is the only FBS conference without a current member having a Sweet 16 appearance in this time frame.
- Baylor has the fewest appearances (5) with a national title (2021). The schools this year with as many or fewer appearances without a national title: Clemson (4), Creighton (3), Houston (5), San Diego St (4).
- Anything else?

It would be interesting to have these broken out by groups of 10 years to see whether there are any trends.

(03-28-2024 11:54 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 01:48 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Appearances by Conference (Future Affiliation - incl. Oregon St and Washington St with WCC):
140 - ACC
123 - B1G
104 - SEC
95 - XII
69 - Big East
20 - AAC
18 - WCC
15 - A10
13 - MWC
7 - MAC
6 - MVC
5 - CUSA
2 - Horizon, Ivy
1 - ASUN, MAAC, Patriot, SoCon, Summit

Appearances by School:
27 - Duke
25 - North Carolina
23 - Kansas, Kentucky
19 - Arizona
17 - Michigan St, UCLA
16 - Connecticut, Syracuse
14 - Gonzaga, Louisville
12 - Michigan, Purdue
11 - Florida
10 - Indiana, Oklahoma, Villanova, Wisconsin
9 - Alabama, Arkansas, Maryland, Xavier
8 - Georgetown, Ohio St, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia
7 - Illinois, Iowa St, Memphis, North Carolina St, Oregon
6 - Florida St, Georgia Tech, Marquette, Oklahoma St, UNLV, Utah, Virginia
5 - Auburn, Baylor, Butler, Cincinnati, Houston, LSU, Miami (FL), Pittsburgh, Stanford, Temple, Texas Tech
4 - Clemson, Kansas St, Missouri, Notre Dame, San Diego St, Seton Hall, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Washington
3 - Boston College, Creighton, Iowa, Loyola - Chicago, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Providence, St. John's, Texas A&M, Tulsa, USC, Wichita St
2 - California, DePaul, Mississippi St, Nevada, Rhode Island, Richmond, Southern Illinois, St. Joseph's, Western Kentucky
1 - Arizona St, Ball St, Bradley, BYU, Chattanooga, Cleveland St, Cornell, Davidson, Dayton, Eastern Michigan, Florida Atlantic, Florida Gulf Coast, George Mason, George Washington, Georgia, La Salle, Louisiana Tech, Loyola Marymount, Miami (OH), Milwaukee, Mississippi, Missouri St, Navy, New Mexico St, Northern Iowa, Ohio, Oral Roberts, Oregon St, Penn St, Princeton, South Carolina, St. Mary's, St. Peter's, UAB, UTEP, Valparaiso, VCU, Virginia Tech, Washington St, Wyoming

Big 5 Conference Schools with 0 Sweet 16 Appearances:
ACC - SMU
B1G - Nebraska, Northwestern, Rutgers
Big East - (none)
SEC - (none)
XII - Central Florida, Colorado, TCU

------------------------------------------------------------

Observations:
- The gap between the Big 5 and the Middle 4 (A10, AAC, MWC, WCC) is massive.
- I am presuming the gap between the Big East and the other Big 5 conferences is due in part to it having 11 schools and the others having 16+ schools.
- The SBC is the only FBS conference without a current member having a Sweet 16 appearance in this time frame.
- Baylor has the fewest appearances (5) with a national title (2021). The schools this year with as many or fewer appearances without a national title: Clemson (4), Creighton (3), Houston (5), San Diego St (4).
- Anything else?

It would be interesting to have these broken out by groups of 10 years to see whether there are any trends.

One big trend is the consolidation of Sweet Sixteen by the P6, as they absorbed schools like Butler, Xavier, Houston, etc that used to get S16 bids in non-P6 conferences

(03-26-2024 07:34 PM)ken d Wrote:  Top 16 teams with Sweet Sixteen appearances in last 10 tournaments:

9 Gonzaga
6 Duke
6 Michigan
6 UCLA
6 UNC
5 Arizona
5 Houston
5 Kentucky
5 Purdue
4 Iowa State
4 Kansas
4 Michigan State
4 Oregon
4 Tennessee
4 Villanova
4 Wisconsin

I know that UVa has choked a lot, lately. But...

Are you only counting the last 9 tournaments? IIRC, UVa has made 4 Sweet 16 if you go back to the 2014 NCAAT (there was no tournament in 2020).

1985 berths by 2024 membership:

9 ACC (BC, Duke, GT, UNC, NCSt, ND, Pitt, SU, VT)
7 BIG (Ill, Iowa, UMary, UMich, MSU, OhSU, Purdue)
6 AAC (Memphis, SMU, Temple, Tulsa, UAB, WichSt)
6 SEC (Alabama, Ark, Auburn, UGA, Kentucky, LSU)
4 BEast (DePaul, G'town, St.Johns, Nova)
4 BXII (IowaSt, Kansas, Okla, TTech)
4 PAC-12 (Ariz, OrSU, USC, Wash)
3 A10 (Dayton, LoyCh, VCU)
3 CUSA (LaTech, MTSU, UTEP)
3 MW (SDSU, Nev, UNLV)
2 CAA (NE, NCA&T)
2 MAC (Mia(OH), Ohio)
2 Patriot (Lehigh, Navy)
2 Sun B (Marshall, ODU)
1 Ivy (Penn), MAAC (Iona), MVC (Ill St), NEC (FDU),
SoCon (Mercer), SWAC (Southern), WCC (Pepperdine)

Conferences whose representative have moved.

Am E (*NE), ASUN (*Mercer), BSky (*Nevada), BSouth (no AQ), BigW (*UNLV), CAA(*Navy), ECC(*Lehigh), Horizon (*LoyCh), MEAC (*NC A&T), OVC (*MTSU), S'land (*LaTech), SoCon (*Marshall), Summit (no AQ), Sun Belt (**ODU, *VCU), WAC (UTEP)

**ODU left the Sun Belt before returning.

By 2025 membership:

10 ACC (+SMU)
9 BIG (+USC, + Wash)
7 SEC (+Okla)
5 AAC (-SMU)
4 BXII (-Okla, +Ariz)
4 BEast (n.c.)
3 A10 (n.c.)
3 CUSA (n.c.)
3 MW (n.c.)
2 WCC (Pepperdine, +OrSU)
0 PAC-0 (-Ariz, -OrSU, -USC, -Wash)

(03-28-2024 12:02 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(03-28-2024 11:54 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 01:48 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  Appearances by Conference (Future Affiliation - incl. Oregon St and Washington St with WCC):
140 - ACC
123 - B1G
104 - SEC
95 - XII
69 - Big East
20 - AAC
18 - WCC
15 - A10
13 - MWC
7 - MAC
6 - MVC
5 - CUSA
2 - Horizon, Ivy
1 - ASUN, MAAC, Patriot, SoCon, Summit

Appearances by School:
27 - Duke
25 - North Carolina
23 - Kansas, Kentucky
19 - Arizona
17 - Michigan St, UCLA
16 - Connecticut, Syracuse
14 - Gonzaga, Louisville
12 - Michigan, Purdue
11 - Florida
10 - Indiana, Oklahoma, Villanova, Wisconsin
9 - Alabama, Arkansas, Maryland, Xavier
8 - Georgetown, Ohio St, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia
7 - Illinois, Iowa St, Memphis, North Carolina St, Oregon
6 - Florida St, Georgia Tech, Marquette, Oklahoma St, UNLV, Utah, Virginia
5 - Auburn, Baylor, Butler, Cincinnati, Houston, LSU, Miami (FL), Pittsburgh, Stanford, Temple, Texas Tech
4 - Clemson, Kansas St, Missouri, Notre Dame, San Diego St, Seton Hall, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Washington
3 - Boston College, Creighton, Iowa, Loyola - Chicago, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Providence, St. John's, Texas A&M, Tulsa, USC, Wichita St
2 - California, DePaul, Mississippi St, Nevada, Rhode Island, Richmond, Southern Illinois, St. Joseph's, Western Kentucky
1 - Arizona St, Ball St, Bradley, BYU, Chattanooga, Cleveland St, Cornell, Davidson, Dayton, Eastern Michigan, Florida Atlantic, Florida Gulf Coast, George Mason, George Washington, Georgia, La Salle, Louisiana Tech, Loyola Marymount, Miami (OH), Milwaukee, Mississippi, Missouri St, Navy, New Mexico St, Northern Iowa, Ohio, Oral Roberts, Oregon St, Penn St, Princeton, South Carolina, St. Mary's, St. Peter's, UAB, UTEP, Valparaiso, VCU, Virginia Tech, Washington St, Wyoming

Big 5 Conference Schools with 0 Sweet 16 Appearances:
ACC - SMU
B1G - Nebraska, Northwestern, Rutgers
Big East - (none)
SEC - (none)
XII - Central Florida, Colorado, TCU

------------------------------------------------------------

Observations:
- The gap between the Big 5 and the Middle 4 (A10, AAC, MWC, WCC) is massive.
- I am presuming the gap between the Big East and the other Big 5 conferences is due in part to it having 11 schools and the others having 16+ schools.
- The SBC is the only FBS conference without a current member having a Sweet 16 appearance in this time frame.
- Baylor has the fewest appearances (5) with a national title (2021). The schools this year with as many or fewer appearances without a national title: Clemson (4), Creighton (3), Houston (5), San Diego St (4).
- Anything else?

It would be interesting to have these broken out by groups of 10 years to see whether there are any trends.

One big trend is the consolidation of Sweet Sixteen by the P6, as they absorbed schools like Butler, Xavier, Houston, etc that used to get S16 bids in non-P6 conferences

Kind of like power football conferences absorbing UCF, Cincinnati, Houston, TCU, Utah and Louisville.