The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Why the first half issues against Akron and Miami followed by good second half’s. I’m pretty sure it’s not because of rousing halftime speeches by Senderhoff. Anybody have an idea or is it just a coincidence.

(01-30-2024 08:38 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  This is basketball, a little smack should be acceptable but ref wanted to T him up and then tossed a fan. Got it down to 5 now, and Bass tries to drive through 4 guys and loses the handle instead of passing or pulling it out. SMH.

That was our friend Chris Beaver, rabbit ears and always looking for reason to T someone up.

(01-30-2024 10:47 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:43 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:23 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:12 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:06 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  A 30 second look at the play by play looks like he played roughly 13 minutes in the first half and we were. -8 with him out there. That means in the 7 minutes he was on the bench we were a -7. I think maybe you're over simplifing our bad first half. If you watched tonight's game and thought it was one guy's fault... I don't know what to say to you other than, nope.

I never said it was one guys fault. What I said was he doesn't do enough to warrant time. Give me Bass, Freeman, Rollins over him. And yes I know they don't all play the same position, but you can rotate guys. Freeman barely played. Sadly, the reality is, this team isn't going anywhere - and I don't think it's because of injuries. Either Rob has lost them or they just don't buy in. It's unfortunate it went this way because everyone thought this could be a special team.

We got out scored by 15 in the first half and out scored then by 11 in the second half. And you summed up the differences in the halves by Bekelja playing in the first half but not playing much in the second. Sorry I guess I mistook that for him being responsible for the loss. I guess I'll try to read between the lines harder next time...

You don't have to read between the lines, just don't assume something I didn't say. What I said was he doesn't do enough when out there to play. And that, sir, is what I meant.

Also curious - where did you get the +/- numbers?

Try to frame it however you want, but you blamed the first half performance on Bekelja playing. And everyone who saw the game knows we lost because of the first half performance. Don't say you didn't say it. Say you didn't mean it like that.

And I got the +/- by counting in the play by play.

(01-31-2024 08:14 AM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:47 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:43 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:23 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:12 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  I never said it was one guys fault. What I said was he doesn't do enough to warrant time. Give me Bass, Freeman, Rollins over him. And yes I know they don't all play the same position, but you can rotate guys. Freeman barely played. Sadly, the reality is, this team isn't going anywhere - and I don't think it's because of injuries. Either Rob has lost them or they just don't buy in. It's unfortunate it went this way because everyone thought this could be a special team.

We got out scored by 15 in the first half and out scored then by 11 in the second half. And you summed up the differences in the halves by Bekelja playing in the first half but not playing much in the second. Sorry I guess I mistook that for him being responsible for the loss. I guess I'll try to read between the lines harder next time...

You don't have to read between the lines, just don't assume something I didn't say. What I said was he doesn't do enough when out there to play. And that, sir, is what I meant.

Also curious - where did you get the +/- numbers?

Try to frame it however you want, but you blamed the first half performance on Bekelja playing. And everyone who saw the game knows we lost because of the first half performance. Don't say you didn't say it. Say you didn't mean it like that.

And I got the +/- by counting in the play by play.

I said what I said : I never said it was one guys fault. What I said was he doesn't do enough to warrant time. And the wording was an observation of the facts. He played most of the first half and we got rolled. He didn't play much in the second half and we made a run. Use those FACTS how you choose.

29% from 3 / (2) two point baskets on the season
8 total steals on the season
1.7 rebounds per game

I stand by what I said. For the minutes he gets, his contribution is minimal and there are others than would make more of an impact.

Get it straight, it's not his fault - he just shouldn't get off the bench.

(01-30-2024 10:12 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:06 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 09:42 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Play Bekelja in the first half and get rolled. Sit him in the second half and make a run. I am sorry, that kid doesn't do enough to be on the floor.

A 30 second look at the play by play looks like he played roughly 13 minutes in the first half and we were. -8 with him out there. That means in the 7 minutes he was on the bench we were a -7. I think maybe you're over simplifing our bad first half. If you watched tonight's game and thought it was one guy's fault... I don't know what to say to you other than, nope.

I never said it was one guys fault. What I said was he doesn't do enough to warrant time. Give me Bass, Freeman, Rollins over him. And yes I know they don't all play the same position, but you can rotate guys. Freeman barely played. Sadly, the reality is, this team isn't going anywhere - and I don't think it's because of injuries. Either Rob has lost them or they just don't buy in. It's unfortunate it went this way because everyone thought this could be a special team.

I don't know that everyone thought that this would be a "special team". I know I didn't. I thought they'd be pretty good, in the top 4. I'm somewhat disappointed. It seems to me that the talent level just isn't good enough to play with any consistency.

(01-31-2024 08:01 AM)burden Wrote:  Why the first half issues against Akron and Miami followed by good second half’s. I’m pretty sure it’s not because of rousing halftime speeches by Senderhoff. Anybody have an idea or is it just a coincidence.

add Ohio also, dig a hole , way better intensity in 2nd half , falls just short.

Sendy has changed lineup every game. dont think you can blame one player or players for this horrible stretch. Last night Peyton/Hornbeak had 2 shots in 1st half. It was bombs away with little results.

I suggest slowing the tempo to a snails pace on offense and packing it in with a zone defense. Shorten the game, be different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYhKZSm7RLs

You have 3 guards shooting under 32% from three and the one with the most attempts is Gio at a whopping 25%

We turned ball over 10 times in 1st half v OU and 8 times last night.

Our defense is really bad. Bass is clueless on that end and doesnt box out. Sullinger is bad on that end too but hard to take out your only legitimate perimeter weapon.

Cliron is rusty and needs to be more physical at rim. Payton is a mess. Almost felt like intentionally didnt attack rim in 1st half. playing tentative. sometimes going from 3rd option to a supposed all mac performer is tough. he hasnt made that jump.

(01-31-2024 11:18 AM)ksu315 Wrote:  You have 3 guards shooting under 32% from three and the one with the most attempts is Gio at a whopping 25%

We turned ball over 10 times in 1st half v OU and 8 times last night.

Our defense is really bad. Bass is clueless on that end and doesnt box out. Sullinger is bad on that end too but hard to take out your only legitimate perimeter weapon.

Cliron is rusty and needs to be more physical at rim. Payton is a mess. Almost felt like intentionally didnt attack rim in 1st half. playing tentative. sometimes going from 3rd option to a supposed all mac performer is tough. he hasnt made that jump.

A lot of things went wrong last] night, but early on I sensed he was somewhere else other than the MACC and his lackluster performance may have been the primary difference in the outcome. A guy averaging 13.3 scored 3 points, played out of position, made some bad passes and went 1-4 from the line including 0-2 when we most needed it.

And speaking of giving points away from the foul line. What was up with that line violation? I went backed and tried to see but didn't see anyone in the lane early. I did see a quick glimpse of what looked like the Miami guy in the wrong block and then getting the KSU guy to switch with him. Is that what it was?

Clearly this team has issues but talent is there. At least it was early in season. Lack of chemistry and leadership are a major issue.

Many games we have been listless, little emotional connection to the game.

Payton played hard last 6 minutes but early in game he was not involved

Our guards have regressed from
Last season. Santiago’s injury seems to effect his ball handling.


Fans have been very spoiled last 25+ years , Could be headed to first losing season since mid 1990’s if memory serves me.
The shot selection has been horrible. Free throws a mystery and turnovers inexcusable

Come on Kent you are way better than this.

(01-31-2024 04:20 PM)Older and Older Wrote:  Clearly this team has issues but talent is there. At least it was early in season. Lack of chemistry and leadership are a major issue.

Many games we have been listless, little emotional connection to the game.

Payton played hard last 6 minutes but early in game he was not involved

Our guards have regressed from
Last season. Santiago’s injury seems to effect his ball handling.


Fans have been very spoiled last 25+ years , Could be headed to first losing season since mid 1990’s if memory serves me.
The shot selection has been horrible. Free throws a mystery and turnovers inexcusable

Come on Kent you are way better than this.

So, round and around and around the Golden Flashes go
Where this team is headed, said nobody knows
Oh, great Googamooga
Can't you hear me talking to you?
Just a ball of confusion
Oh yeah, that's what this team is today
Woo, hey, hey

Courtesy of the Temptations

#GoFlashes

(01-31-2024 01:14 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 11:18 AM)ksu315 Wrote:  You have 3 guards shooting under 32% from three and the one with the most attempts is Gio at a whopping 25%

We turned ball over 10 times in 1st half v OU and 8 times last night.

Our defense is really bad. Bass is clueless on that end and doesnt box out. Sullinger is bad on that end too but hard to take out your only legitimate perimeter weapon.

Cliron is rusty and needs to be more physical at rim. Payton is a mess. Almost felt like intentionally didnt attack rim in 1st half. playing tentative. sometimes going from 3rd option to a supposed all mac performer is tough. he hasnt made that jump.

A lot of things went wrong last] night, but early on I sensed he was somewhere else other than the MACC and his lackluster performance may have been the primary difference in the outcome. A guy averaging 13.3 scored 3 points, played out of position, made some bad passes and went 1-4 from the line including 0-2 when we most needed it.

And speaking of giving points away from the foul line. What was up with that line violation? I went backed and tried to see but didn't see anyone in the lane early. I did see a quick glimpse of what looked like the Miami guy in the wrong block and then getting the KSU guy to switch with him. Is that what it was?

Sullinger lined up in the third position when we were shooting. Extremely dumb.

(01-31-2024 01:14 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 11:18 AM)ksu315 Wrote:  You have 3 guards shooting under 32% from three and the one with the most attempts is Gio at a whopping 25%

We turned ball over 10 times in 1st half v OU and 8 times last night.

Our defense is really bad. Bass is clueless on that end and doesnt box out. Sullinger is bad on that end too but hard to take out your only legitimate perimeter weapon.

Cliron is rusty and needs to be more physical at rim. Payton is a mess. Almost felt like intentionally didnt attack rim in 1st half. playing tentative. sometimes going from 3rd option to a supposed all mac performer is tough. he hasnt made that jump.

A lot of things went wrong last] night, but early on I sensed he was somewhere else other than the MACC and his lackluster performance may have been the primary difference in the outcome. A guy averaging 13.3 scored 3 points, played out of position, made some bad passes and went 1-4 from the line including 0-2 when we most needed it.

And speaking of giving points away from the foul line. What was up with that line violation? I went backed and tried to see but didn't see anyone in the lane early. I did see a quick glimpse of what looked like the Miami guy in the wrong block and then getting the KSU guy to switch with him. Is that what it was?

Sullinger lined up next to Peyton which is not allowed. Miami choose not to occupy the spot, but we can't put someone there. Just another example of sloppy attention to detail.

(01-31-2024 08:46 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 08:14 AM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:47 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:43 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:23 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  We got out scored by 15 in the first half and out scored then by 11 in the second half. And you summed up the differences in the halves by Bekelja playing in the first half but not playing much in the second. Sorry I guess I mistook that for him being responsible for the loss. I guess I'll try to read between the lines harder next time...

You don't have to read between the lines, just don't assume something I didn't say. What I said was he doesn't do enough when out there to play. And that, sir, is what I meant.

Also curious - where did you get the +/- numbers?

Try to frame it however you want, but you blamed the first half performance on Bekelja playing. And everyone who saw the game knows we lost because of the first half performance. Don't say you didn't say it. Say you didn't mean it like that.

And I got the +/- by counting in the play by play.

I said what I said : I never said it was one guys fault. What I said was he doesn't do enough to warrant time. And the wording was an observation of the facts. He played most of the first half and we got rolled. He didn't play much in the second half and we made a run. Use those FACTS how you choose.

29% from 3 / (2) two point baskets on the season
8 total steals on the season
1.7 rebounds per game

I stand by what I said. For the minutes he gets, his contribution is minimal and there are others than would make more of an impact.

Get it straight, it's not his fault - he just shouldn't get off the bench.

It's interesting you chose to include 1.7 rpg in your analysis here. I think that illustrates you're grading Bekelja on a different scale than the other guards. First any worthwhile statistical analysis, particularly for a limited minutes player should look at normalized rates either per possession or per minute. He's ahead of Gio, Sully, and Bass in terms of rebounds per 40 minutes and rebounds per 100 possessions.

Furthermore, you're saying last night he shouldn't have played, and citing lack of rebounds in your argument... But missing the fact he had 5 rebounds last night. And 4 the game before that. You know how many time Bass has had 5+ rebounds in a game this year? I'll give you a hint, it's less than 1.

As for steals... Again when normalized he looks good. 4th on the team per 100 possessions or 40 minutes behind Hayes, Gio, and Moss.

And for three point shooting, sure 29% isn't very good. Neither is Gio's 25% or Bass's 32%. Since the end of November Bekelja is at 40%.

I've mentioned this before, but Bekelja is still #1 on our team in defensive box score +/-. He defends and our other guards don't. That's why he's playing. At the beginning of the year I thought if he's in the rotation we're in trouble because it means we didn't find anyone that can replace Carry and Jacobs as a plus defender on the perimeter. Well... We're there. I'm no more of a Bekelja fan than the next guy, but let's at least grade the kid fairly.

(01-31-2024 04:20 PM)Older and Older Wrote:  Clearly this team has issues but talent is there. At least it was early in season. Lack of chemistry and leadership are a major issue.

Many games we have been listless, little emotional connection to the game.

Payton played hard last 6 minutes but early in game he was not involved

Our guards have regressed from
Last season. Santiago’s injury seems to effect his ball handling.


Fans have been very spoiled last 25+ years , Could be headed to first losing season since mid 1990’s if memory serves me.
The shot selection has been horrible. Free throws a mystery and turnovers inexcusable

Come on Kent you are way better than this.

The last losing season was 1997/98, but that team finished well. In fact, I believe they would have won the MAC tournament had Massey not punched an Akron player. They upset Akron at Akron and Waters suspended Massey, the leading scorer.

(01-31-2024 05:23 PM)luckyflash Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 01:14 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 11:18 AM)ksu315 Wrote:  You have 3 guards shooting under 32% from three and the one with the most attempts is Gio at a whopping 25%

We turned ball over 10 times in 1st half v OU and 8 times last night.

Our defense is really bad. Bass is clueless on that end and doesnt box out. Sullinger is bad on that end too but hard to take out your only legitimate perimeter weapon.

Cliron is rusty and needs to be more physical at rim. Payton is a mess. Almost felt like intentionally didnt attack rim in 1st half. playing tentative. sometimes going from 3rd option to a supposed all mac performer is tough. he hasnt made that jump.

A lot of things went wrong last] night, but early on I sensed he was somewhere else other than the MACC and his lackluster performance may have been the primary difference in the outcome. A guy averaging 13.3 scored 3 points, played out of position, made some bad passes and went 1-4 from the line including 0-2 when we most needed it.

And speaking of giving points away from the foul line. What was up with that line violation? I went backed and tried to see but didn't see anyone in the lane early. I did see a quick glimpse of what looked like the Miami guy in the wrong block and then getting the KSU guy to switch with him. Is that what it was?

Sullinger lined up next to Peyton which is not allowed. Miami choose not to occupy the spot, but we can't put someone there. Just another example of sloppy attention to detail.

Like I said I caught a quick glimpse and their guy was in the 2nd block with us in the first and 3rd, so maybe Sullinger was confused because when he lined up he was next to one of theirs. But that guy realized he was in the wrong spot and switched late with the KSU guy in the 1st block because being on defense that was their spot.

(01-31-2024 05:26 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 08:46 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 08:14 AM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:47 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:43 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  You don't have to read between the lines, just don't assume something I didn't say. What I said was he doesn't do enough when out there to play. And that, sir, is what I meant.

Also curious - where did you get the +/- numbers?

Try to frame it however you want, but you blamed the first half performance on Bekelja playing. And everyone who saw the game knows we lost because of the first half performance. Don't say you didn't say it. Say you didn't mean it like that.

And I got the +/- by counting in the play by play.

I said what I said : I never said it was one guys fault. What I said was he doesn't do enough to warrant time. And the wording was an observation of the facts. He played most of the first half and we got rolled. He didn't play much in the second half and we made a run. Use those FACTS how you choose.

29% from 3 / (2) two point baskets on the season
8 total steals on the season
1.7 rebounds per game

I stand by what I said. For the minutes he gets, his contribution is minimal and there are others than would make more of an impact.

Get it straight, it's not his fault - he just shouldn't get off the bench.

It's interesting you chose to include 1.7 rpg in your analysis here. I think that illustrates you're grading Bekelja on a different scale than the other guards. First any worthwhile statistical analysis, particularly for a limited minutes player should look at normalized rates either per possession or per minute. He's ahead of Gio, Sully, and Bass in terms of rebounds per 40 minutes and rebounds per 100 possessions.

Furthermore, you're saying last night he shouldn't have played, and citing lack of rebounds in your argument... But missing the fact he had 5 rebounds last night. And 4 the game before that. You know how many time Bass has had 5+ rebounds in a game this year? I'll give you a hint, it's less than 1.

As for steals... Again when normalized he looks good. 4th on the team per 100 possessions or 40 minutes behind Hayes, Gio, and Moss.

And for three point shooting, sure 29% isn't very good. Neither is Gio's 25% or Bass's 32%. Since the end of November Bekelja is at 40%.

I've mentioned this before, but Bekelja is still #1 on our team in defensive box score +/-. He defends and our other guards don't. That's why he's playing. At the beginning of the year I thought if he's in the rotation we're in trouble because it means we didn't find anyone that can replace Carry and Jacobs as a plus defender on the perimeter. Well... We're there. I'm no more of a Bekelja fan than the next guy, but let's at least grade the kid fairly.

If you want to run numbers and analytics per 100 possessions and calculate +/- numbers - go for it. I just looked at his averages. I am not being unfair, I am just not going to spend a lot of time running numbers when I have the eye test to tell me what I need to know. And his averages included his 5 and 4 rebound games. We can agree to disagree. All good.

(02-01-2024 12:04 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 05:26 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 08:46 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  

(01-31-2024 08:14 AM)anti-zip Wrote:  

(01-30-2024 10:47 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  Also curious - where did you get the +/- numbers?

Try to frame it however you want, but you blamed the first half performance on Bekelja playing. And everyone who saw the game knows we lost because of the first half performance. Don't say you didn't say it. Say you didn't mean it like that.

And I got the +/- by counting in the play by play.

I said what I said : I never said it was one guys fault. What I said was he doesn't do enough to warrant time. And the wording was an observation of the facts. He played most of the first half and we got rolled. He didn't play much in the second half and we made a run. Use those FACTS how you choose.

29% from 3 / (2) two point baskets on the season
8 total steals on the season
1.7 rebounds per game

I stand by what I said. For the minutes he gets, his contribution is minimal and there are others than would make more of an impact.

Get it straight, it's not his fault - he just shouldn't get off the bench.

It's interesting you chose to include 1.7 rpg in your analysis here. I think that illustrates you're grading Bekelja on a different scale than the other guards. First any worthwhile statistical analysis, particularly for a limited minutes player should look at normalized rates either per possession or per minute. He's ahead of Gio, Sully, and Bass in terms of rebounds per 40 minutes and rebounds per 100 possessions.

Furthermore, you're saying last night he shouldn't have played, and citing lack of rebounds in your argument... But missing the fact he had 5 rebounds last night. And 4 the game before that. You know how many time Bass has had 5+ rebounds in a game this year? I'll give you a hint, it's less than 1.

As for steals... Again when normalized he looks good. 4th on the team per 100 possessions or 40 minutes behind Hayes, Gio, and Moss.

And for three point shooting, sure 29% isn't very good. Neither is Gio's 25% or Bass's 32%. Since the end of November Bekelja is at 40%.

I've mentioned this before, but Bekelja is still #1 on our team in defensive box score +/-. He defends and our other guards don't. That's why he's playing. At the beginning of the year I thought if he's in the rotation we're in trouble because it means we didn't find anyone that can replace Carry and Jacobs as a plus defender on the perimeter. Well... We're there. I'm no more of a Bekelja fan than the next guy, but let's at least grade the kid fairly.

If you want to run numbers and analytics per 100 possessions and calculate +/- numbers - go for it. I just looked at his averages. I am not being unfair, I am just not going to spend a lot of time running numbers when I have the eye test to tell me what I need to know. And his averages included his 5 and 4 rebound games. We can agree to disagree. All good.

No one is "running numbers and analytics"... Per 100 possession stats and per 40 minutes stats are all readily available on Sports reference. It took me roughly 1 minute to look up.

Math

What is it good for?

Nevermind, thats war.