(12-12-2023 04:06 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 03:51 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 02:13 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is the "I quit but I still want my annual salary" argument.

If I put in my 2 week notice, I expect to be paid for the 2 weeks I worked.

Would you expect to get your christmas bonus?

The ten exiting schools expect to get their regular earnings, which are this year's distributions. Future distributions are of course those bonuses you speak of, which they do not expect.

This move, if it is not part of the final settlement being negotiated will almost certainly trigger the dissolving of the Pac-12. It demonstrates not a desire to rebuild the Pac-12 but a maximum money grab, both of money entitled and of money not entitled. But it is a move that comes at very high risk of losing all future distributions.

(12-12-2023 04:06 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 03:51 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 02:13 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is the "I quit but I still want my annual salary" argument.

If I put in my 2 week notice, I expect to be paid for the 2 weeks I worked.

Would you expect to get your christmas bonus?

If your departure date is after the bonus payout date, then yes.

(12-12-2023 03:51 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 02:13 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is the "I quit but I still want my annual salary" argument.

If I put in my 2 week notice, I expect to be paid for the 2 weeks I worked.

But this is more partners in a firm that is being sued wanting to get their share of the annual profits before the cases get decided which might mean some of that money wasn't profit after all.

In the final settlement, some of that hoped for profit might have to go into escrow until the cases are decided.

(12-12-2023 02:13 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is the "I quit but I still want my annual salary" argument.

No, it's the "I quit and still want the $75k in deferred compensation that I'm owed, and the company isn't paying it". Good for WOSU for trying to get all they can, will be interesting to see how everything shakes out in the end.

(12-12-2023 11:24 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

Good for them. They shouldn't give the 10 schools leaving a single penny. They shouldn't even forgive them in 10-15 years' time when the majority of schools leaving realize that joining a conference that requires traveling cross-country for contests wasn't such a good idea, and they want back in. Both of them should tell the rest to go pound sand and slam the door in their face.

(12-12-2023 07:56 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 11:24 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

Good for them. They shouldn't give the 10 schools leaving a single penny. They shouldn't even forgive them in 10-15 years' time when the majority of schools leaving realize that joining a conference that requires traveling cross-country for contests wasn't such a good idea, and they want back in. Both of them should tell the rest to go pound sand and slam the door in their face.

That sounds like theft. Courts will not allow it.

(12-12-2023 09:04 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 07:56 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 11:24 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

Good for them. They shouldn't give the 10 schools leaving a single penny. They shouldn't even forgive them in 10-15 years' time when the majority of schools leaving realize that joining a conference that requires traveling cross-country for contests wasn't such a good idea, and they want back in. Both of them should tell the rest to go pound sand and slam the door in their face.

That sounds like theft. Courts will not allow it.

The 10 schools are an absolute voting supermajority for all of the decisions that were made which are the subject to the lawsuits, they can't expect to leave and make no provision to clean up their mess and yet take all of the funds that will be needed to do so.

(12-12-2023 03:51 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 02:13 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is the "I quit but I still want my annual salary" argument.

If I put in my 2 week notice, I expect to be paid for the 2 weeks I worked.

That's great. The departing 10 are not employees however. They were partners in a sports alliance. The reaped benefits from that but there are also current and future liabilities to consider and the 10 should not be able to walk away from their responsibility to fund those liabilities.

When my Dad, a contractor, left the union he did it the right way, he paid into the "unfunded liabilities" to the tune of about $200K. This was to cover the cost of future pensions. As to legal liabilities let me tell you how that is handled by insurance. At the first threat of a claim, and the insured must inform their insurance provider as soon as know of a pending litigation threat, the insurance company will reserve an amount of money they expect the claim to cost. For the insured this immediately goes down as a loss and your rates are increased regardless of whether the plaintiff wins the case. OSU/WSU want to reserve an amount of money to cover the current and future liabilities of the conference. The current claims include the Holiday Bowl suit and the NCAA lawsuit for NIL although their may be others.

So, you tell me why the departing 10 should be allowed to walk away from their financial obligations and stick that all on OSU/WSU.

I'm totally for the schools leaving but they have to.suck this up and know that there will be a delay or penalty for leaving.

(12-13-2023 01:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  I'm totally for the schools leaving but they have to.suck this up and know that there will be a delay or penalty for leaving.

The delay is waiting for the media contract to expire this summer, which they're all doing. There is no penalty for leaving and trying to create one out of thin air is theft.

(12-13-2023 01:58 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 01:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  I'm totally for the schools leaving but they have to.suck this up and know that there will be a delay or penalty for leaving.

The delay is waiting for the media contract to expire this summer, which they're all doing. There is no penalty for leaving and trying to create one out of thin air is theft.

…except that someone left the proverbial lights on when the majority left the house. The entire body didn’t address process and procedure with their bylaws.

So it could come down to a “what terms and conditions?”

And, as others have said, you make a mess, you clean it up with respect to the Comcast and NIL thing.

(12-13-2023 12:45 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 03:51 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 02:13 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is the "I quit but I still want my annual salary" argument.

If I put in my 2 week notice, I expect to be paid for the 2 weeks I worked.

That's great. The departing 10 are not employees however. They were partners in a sports alliance. The reaped benefits from that but there are also current and future liabilities to consider and the 10 should not be able to walk away from their responsibility to fund those liabilities.

When my Dad, a contractor, left the union he did it the right way, he paid into the "unfunded liabilities" to the tune of about $200K. This was to cover the cost of future pensions. As to legal liabilities let me tell you how that is handled by insurance. At the first threat of a claim, and the insured must inform their insurance provider as soon as know of a pending litigation threat, the insurance company will reserve an amount of money they expect the claim to cost. For the insured this immediately goes down as a loss and your rates are increased regardless of whether the plaintiff wins the case. OSU/WSU want to reserve an amount of money to cover the current and future liabilities of the conference. The current claims include the Holiday Bowl suit and the NCAA lawsuit for NIL although their may be others.

So, you tell me why the departing 10 should be allowed to walk away from their financial obligations and stick that all on OSU/WSU.

Not to mention Comcast overpayments. Though Comcast seems to be happy to reduce future payments to the PAC and side step the liability question

(12-13-2023 01:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  I'm totally for the schools leaving but they have to.suck this up and know that there will be a delay or penalty for leaving.

A penalty for leaving?

Aka an exit fee. The PAC agreed not to have one.


Shares of the conference debt being withheld is one thing, trying to implement an exit penalty is another

It seems fair and reasonable that any known outstanding liabilities should be paid in full before revenue is distributed, since there is no future revenue stream to expense them against.

(12-13-2023 01:58 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 01:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  I'm totally for the schools leaving but they have to.suck this up and know that there will be a delay or penalty for leaving.

The delay is waiting for the media contract to expire this summer, which they're all doing. There is no penalty for leaving and trying to create one out of thin air is theft.

Agreed. But as I said, there may be good reasons for delaying this payment because of the magnitude of the potential liabilities.
Of course we don't know how much is covered by their liability insurance. That would impact how reasonable this is.

(12-13-2023 02:53 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It seems fair and reasonable that any known outstanding liabilities should be paid in full before revenue is distributed, since there is no future revenue stream to expense them against.

Well there are the NCAA tourney distributions.

(12-13-2023 02:11 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(12-13-2023 01:38 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  I'm totally for the schools leaving but they have to.suck this up and know that there will be a delay or penalty for leaving.

A penalty for leaving?

Aka an exit fee. The PAC agreed not to have one.


Shares of the conference debt being withheld is one thing, trying to implement an exit penalty is another

They also agreed to give up their voting rights and thus all control of conference decisions after announcing they're leaving. This is the natural conclusion to leaving only 2 conference members in the conference. Suck it up buttercup.

OSU, WSU, and Oregon were left out when the AAWU reformed following a heir departure from the PCC. 4-5 years of independence later they were invited to join the PAC5 and it was like nothing really happened.

I think the BigXII falls apart as soon as its upcoming contract expires- some schools going East to join the ACC remnants and some going back West to join with PAC/MWC remnants. This play by OSU and WSU may work out for them financially in the short term, but they won’t be rejoining the PCC during the 2031 reshuffle. This is going to get them blacklisted. But I think maybe they already knew that the 4C4 would already have put any school in Texas, California, New Mexico, or Nevada ahead of WSU and OSU. This just seals their fate as having no path back to the M2/M1 or whatever shakes out in 2031.

The 10 will get some of the distributions. Just not until all of the liabilities they have left behind are accounted and budgeted for. The fact they tried to push for distributions now was just stupid.

They need to be working out a deal in a hurry, because in a few months they wont get any distributions once they are in another conference.

(12-12-2023 09:04 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 07:56 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 11:24 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

Good for them. They shouldn't give the 10 schools leaving a single penny. They shouldn't even forgive them in 10-15 years' time when the majority of schools leaving realize that joining a conference that requires traveling cross-country for contests wasn't such a good idea, and they want back in. Both of them should tell the rest to go pound sand and slam the door in their face.

That sounds like theft. Courts will not allow it.

You mean like conferences having exit fees? Basically the same thing only that an exit fee establishes the ceiling an exiting program will pay to leave a conference. But just because a conference does not specifically outline what that fee is, doesn't mean that the departing programs do not have have a financial obligation to the programs they leave behind. Just like I say that exit fees are "negotiable" then, to be consistent, the lack of fees still requires negotiation between the parties to ensure fairness.