(09-25-2023 12:16 AM)Eagle Talon Wrote:  The AAC TV contract hasn’t imploded yet, but it is inevitable. In a few years, ECU would be the linchpin that would make adding teams worth it. If they don’t come, don’t mess up what we have. If they do come, however, they are super centralized in the East division and a slam dunk add in every way.
My choice for the West would be USF. It would be enough benefit for our recruiting to have a Florida presence, and being in Tampa for flights helps the extra travel burden a little. Also, USF has history in the Big East and brings cred that way, even if currently struggling on the football field. (Who’s to say what they will look like by the time the AAC contract is up?) UCF could be the one “city team” in the West to match GSU in the East. They have an appropriately sized OCS on the way. It would still give the SBC a regionalized conference with one foothold each in TX and FL. If we want to keep divisions, we could still do so by only playing only one cross division game a year. The only thing I could see messing this up is the ACC needing backfill when they also inevitably implode.

Geography much?

USF, and ALL of Florida for that matter, are NOT in the West.

I stand by it. It’s better than Mo. State or adding UTSA, who is an outlier for all other West teams but Texas State. And I just don’t see adding a third team in either Alabama or Louisiana. No one else moves the needle. Just stay at 14.

If none isn't an answer in the poll then it's not valid. I'm not for adding anyone unless we lose some. 16 is a death sentence to a G5 conference. They will always entertain splitting the conference.

I'd like to see Memphis join the Sunbelt because I like beating them more than any other school in the country. However, I've worked in Memphis and argued back and forth with their fans on message boards.....they ain't coming to the Sunbelt. They think they are SEC caliber and wouldn't stoop to even consider the Sunbelt. They will hold out to the end for a P5 conference. They may never get it unless they move to Arkansas or something. The city of Memphis is their downfall.

If ECU were coming, then Memphis would be a good 16th. I just don’t think they would want to though, no matter what. I get the sense they’d rather stay in a decimated AAC than switch to the SBC for philosophical reasons.

(09-24-2023 09:24 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 08:22 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  To paraphrase . . .

NO TO LIBERTY TODAY. NO TO LIBERTY TOMORROW. NO TO LIBERTY FOREVER.

They are NOT a “Like” Institution, and therefore would not be a good fit.

I don't want to hear that, let's just set the record straight, what's your admitting is that you think college presidents don't like to rub shoulders with Christians, I'll say it. The Falwells are out of power now, and we're a football conference for Pete's sake, not setting up the next PAC 12 or ACC.

We sound like those AAC elites when making the claim they are not a "like" institution.

Last I checked, they're a pretty good football program, and would have instant heel credibility on multiple factors (additional eye balls and buts in seats).

On merit, they belong in the conversation. To not even include them in a poll like this is insane.

Sun Belt will implode before we add Liberty. Give it a rest. There's a reason that only in its dying hour CUSA agreed to take them, even with their 'ungodly' amounts of money.

(09-24-2023 04:47 PM)Herdon555 Wrote:  As a Marshall fan I have long desired to be in a conference with Ohio University again - I know they would never leave the MAC. I think it would be a great add for the Eastern division, quality football and basketball programs, and already has regional rivalry with Marshall. I know Missouri State gets tossed around a lot for the West, but what about Jackson State? But I guess if you wanted a realistic pick probably Western Kentucky and La Tech, just to kick C-USA while they’re down. Assuming the American doesn’t implode those two are probably the most logical pickups.

We've been in a conference with Ohio twice. It didnt' work out both times, we're better off scheduling them OOC.

(09-25-2023 12:30 AM)Eagle Talon Wrote:  I stand by it. It’s better than Mo. State or adding UTSA, who is an outlier for all other West teams but Texas State. And I just don’t see adding a third team in either Alabama or Louisiana. No one else moves the needle. Just stay at 14.

Tampa is 17 miles closer to Hattiesburg than San Antonio. Not sure what your confidence interval is for an outlier. San Antonio is closer than Tampa for stAte, UL and ULM as well. Only Troy and USA are closer to Tampa in a relevant way.

I like where where the SBC is at currenlty.

I say be prepared for some home run adds that make the league better if the opportunity presents itself.

Thanks for inviting us...

A lot of people here are wanting Memphis or USF, two teams that figure to be P5/4/3 backfills once the ACC Grant of Rights has expired and the SEC/Big Ten go plundering. The SBC doesn’t need to do anything until that situation is settled. If Memphis or USF is still available after that happens then maybe it’d work out, but both of them might end up in the ACC.

(09-24-2023 09:24 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 08:22 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  To paraphrase . . .

NO TO LIBERTY TODAY. NO TO LIBERTY TOMORROW. NO TO LIBERTY FOREVER.

They are NOT a “Like” Institution, and therefore would not be a good fit.

I don't want to hear that, let's just set the record straight, what's your admitting is that you think college presidents don't like to rub shoulders with Christians, I'll say it. The Falwells are out of power now, and we're a football conference for Pete's sake, not setting up the next PAC 12 or ACC.

We sound like those AAC elites when making the claim they are not a "like" institution.

Last I checked, they're a pretty good football program, and would have instant heel credibility on multiple factors (additional eye balls and buts in seats).

On merit, they belong in the conversation. To not even include them in a poll like this is insane.

NO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS
No TOO LAME
No Tulsa
and NO TO LIBERTY!

(09-24-2023 11:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 09:27 PM)rileylives Wrote:  Great read. Thanks for the well thought out response.

This is the last thing I'll say because I don't want to be branded as that guy, but the Falwell family is out of power at Liberty, it's just an interesting discussion point. It's the last thing I'll say defending them. But you know, it doesn't matter anyway...

I included that because I know his interactions hurt Liberty's campaign and because of that, I think his absence could be relevant.

In another post you stated the presidents don't want to rub shoulders with Christians. I think that is a very unfair assertion because I know at least some are very active in church. AState's system president is active in an evangelical church so I don't believe there would be big faith differences.

However Liberty has taken some positions that aren't compatible with our institutions.

Liberty as a business decision has elected to not offer tenure to faculty however as a pragmatic matter, they diverged from that position for the law school because the ABA wouldn't accredit the law school unless a certain percentage of the faculty had tenure to protect them if their research or academic writings conflict with the university positions.

Not offering tenure is a really big deal and has nothing directly involved with faith. It is a long held tradition that professors should do research and write academic papers and those who excel should receive tenure. Granting tenure creates stability. When a professor in doing research finds something unpopular such high levels of dangerous contaminants in public water supplies they should be able to publish those findings and speak out even when there is strong local political and business pressure to silence them. A historian going through oral histories, letters, and diaries that detail cruel treatment of slaves and later shady financial dealings with sharecroppers should be able to detail those findings even if the descendants who are donors and politically connected don't want their ancestor's acts published.

Liberty requires their staff to sign a statement that they believe in the young earth account of creation. A geologist who has done real research, not reading textbooks or googling, but actual scientific testing that supports the broad consensus on the age of the earth is ineligible for employment unless. they lie and sign the statement. Down the road at JMU a faculty member is free to agree with the consensus or reject it and believe young earth creation as long as it doesn't interfere with their teaching. They aren't required to sign a statement one way or the other.

Liberty had approached AAC, MAC, Sun Belt, and CUSA and drawn no interest even when those leagues were looking to add teams.

Rumor mill says if UMass had accepted the mandate to join MAC all sports it would have been JMU not Liberty rounding out the lineup. When MAC was poised to invite WKU and MTSU and it collapsed because MTSU pulled out, MAC didn't just switch it up to WKU and Liberty.

Sun Belt looked hard at Liberty and instead of taking them or NMSU or Jacksonville State or Eastern Kentucky who were seeking membership the conference instead elected to pursue Coastal Carolina, a school that had not sought membership.

CUSA falling to five got them in the door because they were turn key ready as a FBS member along with NMSU who Sun Belt had also rejected as a full member and Jacksonville State who never even got far enough along to make a presentation to the Sun Belt.

It matters. The presidents spend a lot of time talking with each other and joint academic projects aren't unknown.

I'm a pragmatist and while I think Liberty has hurdles to go any place other than CUSA in the near-term, if they reach a point where they can enrich the membership, hurdles can be jumped.

I'm very thankful for your honest perspective. I too am a pragmatist. Ultimately if dollars and sense win our, we'll see.

I need to clarify my other assertion, so as not to drag this into the mud, but to provide perspective.

All of the individuals I've ever met with a Liberty connection have been lovely people. When I worked in the athletic department in grad school at Marshall University (like two decades ago) my mentor and head of the contract company marketing department was a Liberty grad. Another one of my good friends where I live in Lexington KY is a Liberty grad.

I fear the reputation of poor leadership have soured people on Liberty. However, the boots on the ground people with ties to that school are some of the most kind and business savvy people you will meet.

I wish more people on these boards had a perspective like yours. +3

(09-25-2023 06:45 AM)ODUODUODU Wrote:  I like where where the SBC is at currenlty.

I say be prepared for some home run adds that make the league better if the opportunity presents itself.

Thanks for inviting us...

Thanks for beating TX A&M Commerce.

(09-25-2023 12:30 AM)Eagle Talon Wrote:  I stand by it. It’s better than Mo. State or adding UTSA, who is an outlier for all other West teams but Texas State. And I just don’t see adding a third team in either Alabama or Louisiana. No one else moves the needle. Just stay at 14.

Sooo, the answer to Geography Much would be: NO.

In your World it’s add 2 East Teams, and the Hell with the other half of the conference….

How enlightened . . .

the context of this is going to 16 rather than replacing schools? In that case the only ones that are value add are Memphis USF UTSA and ECU.

Personally would go with Memphis for the west and ECU for the East.

TXST is still on an island but now Memphis basketball visits.

(09-24-2023 09:24 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 08:22 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  To paraphrase . . .

NO TO LIBERTY TODAY. NO TO LIBERTY TOMORROW. NO TO LIBERTY FOREVER.

They are NOT a “Like” Institution, and therefore would not be a good fit.

I don't want to hear that, let's just set the record straight, what's your admitting is that you think college presidents don't like to rub shoulders with Christians, I'll say it. The Falwells are out of power now, and we're a football conference for Pete's sake, not setting up the next PAC 12 or ACC.

We sound like those AAC elites when making the claim they are not a "like" institution.

Last I checked, they're a pretty good football program, and would have instant heel credibility on multiple factors (additional eye balls and buts in seats).

On merit, they belong in the conversation. To not even include them in a poll like this is insane.

I think there are an awful lot of Christians that would argue that liberty doesn't fit. Include me in the group that says Liberty doesn't fit.

Maryland is not an option? How long til the Big 10 blue bloods show them the door? Probably to close to DC to get any of y’all anti-market votes.

(09-25-2023 07:37 AM)rileylives Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 11:18 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 09:27 PM)rileylives Wrote:  Great read. Thanks for the well thought out response.

This is the last thing I'll say because I don't want to be branded as that guy, but the Falwell family is out of power at Liberty, it's just an interesting discussion point. It's the last thing I'll say defending them. But you know, it doesn't matter anyway...

I included that because I know his interactions hurt Liberty's campaign and because of that, I think his absence could be relevant.

In another post you stated the presidents don't want to rub shoulders with Christians. I think that is a very unfair assertion because I know at least some are very active in church. AState's system president is active in an evangelical church so I don't believe there would be big faith differences.

However Liberty has taken some positions that aren't compatible with our institutions.

Liberty as a business decision has elected to not offer tenure to faculty however as a pragmatic matter, they diverged from that position for the law school because the ABA wouldn't accredit the law school unless a certain percentage of the faculty had tenure to protect them if their research or academic writings conflict with the university positions.

Not offering tenure is a really big deal and has nothing directly involved with faith. It is a long held tradition that professors should do research and write academic papers and those who excel should receive tenure. Granting tenure creates stability. When a professor in doing research finds something unpopular such high levels of dangerous contaminants in public water supplies they should be able to publish those findings and speak out even when there is strong local political and business pressure to silence them. A historian going through oral histories, letters, and diaries that detail cruel treatment of slaves and later shady financial dealings with sharecroppers should be able to detail those findings even if the descendants who are donors and politically connected don't want their ancestor's acts published.

Liberty requires their staff to sign a statement that they believe in the young earth account of creation. A geologist who has done real research, not reading textbooks or googling, but actual scientific testing that supports the broad consensus on the age of the earth is ineligible for employment unless. they lie and sign the statement. Down the road at JMU a faculty member is free to agree with the consensus or reject it and believe young earth creation as long as it doesn't interfere with their teaching. They aren't required to sign a statement one way or the other.

Liberty had approached AAC, MAC, Sun Belt, and CUSA and drawn no interest even when those leagues were looking to add teams.

Rumor mill says if UMass had accepted the mandate to join MAC all sports it would have been JMU not Liberty rounding out the lineup. When MAC was poised to invite WKU and MTSU and it collapsed because MTSU pulled out, MAC didn't just switch it up to WKU and Liberty.

Sun Belt looked hard at Liberty and instead of taking them or NMSU or Jacksonville State or Eastern Kentucky who were seeking membership the conference instead elected to pursue Coastal Carolina, a school that had not sought membership.

CUSA falling to five got them in the door because they were turn key ready as a FBS member along with NMSU who Sun Belt had also rejected as a full member and Jacksonville State who never even got far enough along to make a presentation to the Sun Belt.

It matters. The presidents spend a lot of time talking with each other and joint academic projects aren't unknown.

I'm a pragmatist and while I think Liberty has hurdles to go any place other than CUSA in the near-term, if they reach a point where they can enrich the membership, hurdles can be jumped.

I'm very thankful for your honest perspective. I too am a pragmatist. Ultimately if dollars and sense win our, we'll see.

I need to clarify my other assertion, so as not to drag this into the mud, but to provide perspective.

All of the individuals I've ever met with a Liberty connection have been lovely people. When I worked in the athletic department in grad school at Marshall University (like two decades ago) my mentor and head of the contract company marketing department was a Liberty grad. Another one of my good friends where I live in Lexington KY is a Liberty grad.

I fear the reputation of poor leadership have soured people on Liberty. However, the boots on the ground people with ties to that school are some of the most kind and business savvy people you will meet.

I wish more people on these boards had a perspective like yours. +3

I don't want them because of their money. They have an unfair advantage with their income that the rest of us don't have. They have no oversight to regulate their expenditures that they can easily use as a recruiting advantage. Once they get the hang of NIL they'll be off to the races. I say no in giving them a platform to grow off of our 100 years of work. I'm tired of being with schools that ride coattails (CUSA).

Honestly, thinking on this more, I don’t see what ECU brings outside of baseball. What the conference really needs is to secure institutional rivals for the couple schools that don’t have them yet. There are three schools that fit that bill: Texas State, Arkansas State, and Georgia State. For Texas State, the answer is pretty much only UTSA. For Arkansas State, we could go with Missouri State, Memphis, or Western Kentucky. Of those, Western Kentucky fits the best institutionally. For GA State, the choices are UAB, MTSU, and Chattanooga. I’m most favorable to Chattanooga, as they’re close, in a pretty city, and give us access to Tennessee. MTSU has been stagnant for too long to think they’d improve much.

I don't understand the thinking from some people. The only thing that makes the Sun Belt relevant is wins and losses in football. USF has been bad for a long time. They had a couple of good years under Charlie Strong. ECU has been pretty bad for the last decade too. UAB has been bad for their entire existence other than under Clark. WKU and UTSA traditionally have pretty good programs, but I'd rather stay where we are unless something bigger comes along. The worst part about ECU/USF is they have been bad while having the advantage of money coming from the AAC.

To be honest. I'm not sure why USM was invited. We haven't been good in football in 10 years.