(09-24-2023 06:07 PM)Big Buds Wrote:  UTSA (Gives TXST a rival and travel partner)
ECU (I don’t have to sell this on here)

Those are the 2 I chose, and for the exact same reasons.

(09-24-2023 05:01 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  West Georgia and Middle Georgia obviously. all directional Georgia markets covered

Valdosta State my dude. They’d be more competitive and are in a football town.

(09-24-2023 06:18 PM)rileylives Wrote:  Where is Liberty?

Since Liberty isn't on this list, can't take the poll seriously. They are a realistic ad.

Maybe now that the newbies are in the votes could be ginned up.

They were a very hard no when they applied.

Sun Belt schools come in two basic flavors.

Schools created late 19th and early 20th century to address a progressive movement led by the coalition of farmers and laborers who wanted their kids to have a path to a better standard of living and they wanted expanded public education of a higher quality.

The result was creating colleges to create new teachers, to instruct students on improvements in agriculture and to learn the industrial arts. or as small two year schools to make college accessible without having to move away.

Teachers Colleges: Appalachian State, James Madison, Marshall (I know longer history, but that's what justified taxpayer support), Southern Miss, Texas State, and Troy.
Agriculture, Mechanical, Industrial: Arkansas State, Georgia Southern, and Louisiana.
Branch or Juco: Georgia State, Old Dominion and ULM

After WWII the circumstances change. There's huge demand for admission thanks to the GI and then the Baby Boom and in the South that gets accelerated even more as Depression era electrification of the south met air conditioning and for the first time in the region's history... a trained work force in part because of massive investment in war time factories in the south.

This surge of demand for seats in college coupled with existing colleges bursting at the seams helped birth Coastal Carolina and South Alabama

We were all intended as taxpayer backed schools for the sons and daughters (or just daughters at the time like JMU) of the working class, factory workers, mechanics, shop clerks, farmers, and the men loading trucks, trains and ships.

We are still expected to be affordable and open to good students, not just the GREAT students of the state. I suspect every president and chancellor across the conference can tell you how many kids in the most recent commencement were the first in their immediate family to complete college.

Now we've obviously evolved some and undoubtedly many of our earliest alumni would be turned away or diverted into non-credit remedial programs because the environment is different today and we can reasonably expect that kids educated by our "normal school" graduates can handle higher level mathematics and science and communications.

We share similar history, similar missions, similar political and funding challenges and fairly similar student economic backgrounds though obviously Arkansas, Mississippi, and West Virginia have some notable differences from Georgia, North Carolina and Texas with others in-between on the spectrum.

Liberty shares nothing in common other than they award degrees. Their mission is different, their funding is different, they don't have political oversight, and their student population is a subset of the populations we draw from. There is no legislature jumping in saying you can't spend money from that account for athletics (or anything else) or you must have a student vote on fees, or you've got to bill that activity to athletics. There is no law requiring the school to hand over the contracts, phone calls, memos, and emails for public examination.

That means when the league has issues to address, you've got an outlier with a completely different set of concerns and different level of freedom addressing those issues.

NOW it must be stated that Liberty wasn't initially a hard no, I was told they never got a majority, much less the 3/4ths vote required but a notable portion of the "no" vote was not firmly in the "no" camp, more I'm a no but I could change my mind if I get clarity on some things. Jerry Falwell, Jr., embarked on a face-to-face tour meeting all Sun Belt presidents/chancellors and most if not all the athletic directors, zipping around on a private jet. He implied if not outright declared Liberty was prepared to pay each school a notable sum in the form an unrestricted donation to be used how the school pleased and turned the let me think about folks into no way people.

So I'd never say they'd never get in, and different leadership apparently is a plus, but I don't think they'll get a serious look unless it is a situation where there is near absolute certainty their addition makes a notable difference in revenue.

To paraphrase . . .

NO TO LIBERTY TODAY. NO TO LIBERTY TOMORROW. NO TO LIBERTY FOREVER.

They are NOT a “Like” Institution, and therefore would not be a good fit.

I’d say USF and whoever is better out of FAU/FIU. Would be good for recruiting to take a trip to florida. Also would be cool to take Memphis/Middle Tennessee State. I like the idea of taking two from the same state to nurture or grow a rivalry.

(09-24-2023 07:04 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 05:01 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  West Georgia and Middle Georgia obviously. all directional Georgia markets covered

Valdosta State my dude. They’d be more competitive and are in a football town.

Lived in Valdosta two years. It was extremely dead for a town with a university, two highschos, and an air force base. High school football was the only thing that seemed to move the meter. Never was my thing though

East Carolina and Missouri State.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(09-24-2023 08:31 PM)StatesboroBluesman Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 07:04 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 05:01 PM)GSUALUM17 Wrote:  West Georgia and Middle Georgia obviously. all directional Georgia markets covered

Valdosta State my dude. They’d be more competitive and are in a football town.

Lived in Valdosta two years. It was extremely dead for a town with a university, two highschos, and an air force base. High school football was the only thing that seemed to move the meter. Never was my thing though

I was born and raised there. What you say is accurate.

(09-24-2023 08:22 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  To paraphrase . . .

NO TO LIBERTY TODAY. NO TO LIBERTY TOMORROW. NO TO LIBERTY FOREVER.

They are NOT a “Like” Institution, and therefore would not be a good fit.

I don't want to hear that, let's just set the record straight, what's your admitting is that you think college presidents don't like to rub shoulders with Christians, I'll say it. The Falwells are out of power now, and we're a football conference for Pete's sake, not setting up the next PAC 12 or ACC.

We sound like those AAC elites when making the claim they are not a "like" institution.

Last I checked, they're a pretty good football program, and would have instant heel credibility on multiple factors (additional eye balls and buts in seats).

On merit, they belong in the conversation. To not even include them in a poll like this is insane.

(09-24-2023 07:54 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 06:18 PM)rileylives Wrote:  Where is Liberty?

Since Liberty isn't on this list, can't take the poll seriously. They are a realistic ad.

Maybe now that the newbies are in the votes could be ginned up.

They were a very hard no when they applied.

Sun Belt schools come in two basic flavors.

Schools created late 19th and early 20th century to address a progressive movement led by the coalition of farmers and laborers who wanted their kids to have a path to a better standard of living and they wanted expanded public education of a higher quality.

The result was creating colleges to create new teachers, to instruct students on improvements in agriculture and to learn the industrial arts. or as small two year schools to make college accessible without having to move away.

Teachers Colleges: Appalachian State, James Madison, Marshall (I know longer history, but that's what justified taxpayer support), Southern Miss, Texas State, and Troy.
Agriculture, Mechanical, Industrial: Arkansas State, Georgia Southern, and Louisiana.
Branch or Juco: Georgia State, Old Dominion and ULM

After WWII the circumstances change. There's huge demand for admission thanks to the GI and then the Baby Boom and in the South that gets accelerated even more as Depression era electrification of the south met air conditioning and for the first time in the region's history... a trained work force in part because of massive investment in war time factories in the south.

This surge of demand for seats in college coupled with existing colleges bursting at the seams helped birth Coastal Carolina and South Alabama

We were all intended as taxpayer backed schools for the sons and daughters (or just daughters at the time like JMU) of the working class, factory workers, mechanics, shop clerks, farmers, and the men loading trucks, trains and ships.

We are still expected to be affordable and open to good students, not just the GREAT students of the state. I suspect every president and chancellor across the conference can tell you how many kids in the most recent commencement were the first in their immediate family to complete college.

Now we've obviously evolved some and undoubtedly many of our earliest alumni would be turned away or diverted into non-credit remedial programs because the environment is different today and we can reasonably expect that kids educated by our "normal school" graduates can handle higher level mathematics and science and communications.

We share similar history, similar missions, similar political and funding challenges and fairly similar student economic backgrounds though obviously Arkansas, Mississippi, and West Virginia have some notable differences from Georgia, North Carolina and Texas with others in-between on the spectrum.

Liberty shares nothing in common other than they award degrees. Their mission is different, their funding is different, they don't have political oversight, and their student population is a subset of the populations we draw from. There is no legislature jumping in saying you can't spend money from that account for athletics (or anything else) or you must have a student vote on fees, or you've got to bill that activity to athletics. There is no law requiring the school to hand over the contracts, phone calls, memos, and emails for public examination.

That means when the league has issues to address, you've got an outlier with a completely different set of concerns and different level of freedom addressing those issues.

NOW it must be stated that Liberty wasn't initially a hard no, I was told they never got a majority, much less the 3/4ths vote required but a notable portion of the "no" vote was not firmly in the "no" camp, more I'm a no but I could change my mind if I get clarity on some things. Jerry Falwell, Jr., embarked on a face-to-face tour meeting all Sun Belt presidents/chancellors and most if not all the athletic directors, zipping around on a private jet. He implied if not outright declared Liberty was prepared to pay each school a notable sum in the form an unrestricted donation to be used how the school pleased and turned the let me think about folks into no way people.

So I'd never say they'd never get in, and different leadership apparently is a plus, but I don't think they'll get a serious look unless it is a situation where there is near absolute certainty their addition makes a notable difference in revenue.

Great read. Thanks for the well thought out response.

This is the last thing I'll say because I don't want to be branded as that guy, but the Falwell family is out of power at Liberty, it's just an interesting discussion point. It's the last thing I'll say defending them. But you know, it doesn't matter anyway...

Don't F with the formula...Not adding anyone that contributes to being the top conference, they don't exist. Not adding whiners from the ACK that will create problems with existing members of the Sunbelt. Look how they treat their new arrivals that they should be grateful for getting. They have no conference without them. You want those arrogant Memphis elitists here talking down to you? Cause that's what they do.

Don't we do this type thread 2 or 3 times a year?
We are just really settling onto the 4 new adds being bona fides in the SBC and you're all already talking adding even more?

Is this the annoying pop-up y’all were complaining about in that other thread?

Well as an SBC East fan, ECU is a no brainer for me. Memphis is my choice for the west spot, with UTSA a close second. Memphis is too good of a basketball addition to pass up for UTSA's potential. Giving TXST a good rival also makes UTSA really appealing, but Memphis gives stAte a great rival so that's kind of a wash.

(09-24-2023 09:27 PM)rileylives Wrote:  Great read. Thanks for the well thought out response.

This is the last thing I'll say because I don't want to be branded as that guy, but the Falwell family is out of power at Liberty, it's just an interesting discussion point. It's the last thing I'll say defending them. But you know, it doesn't matter anyway...

I included that because I know his interactions hurt Liberty's campaign and because of that, I think his absence could be relevant.

In another post you stated the presidents don't want to rub shoulders with Christians. I think that is a very unfair assertion because I know at least some are very active in church. AState's system president is active in an evangelical church so I don't believe there would be big faith differences.

However Liberty has taken some positions that aren't compatible with our institutions.

Liberty as a business decision has elected to not offer tenure to faculty however as a pragmatic matter, they diverged from that position for the law school because the ABA wouldn't accredit the law school unless a certain percentage of the faculty had tenure to protect them if their research or academic writings conflict with the university positions.

Not offering tenure is a really big deal and has nothing directly involved with faith. It is a long held tradition that professors should do research and write academic papers and those who excel should receive tenure. Granting tenure creates stability. When a professor in doing research finds something unpopular such high levels of dangerous contaminants in public water supplies they should be able to publish those findings and speak out even when there is strong local political and business pressure to silence them. A historian going through oral histories, letters, and diaries that detail cruel treatment of slaves and later shady financial dealings with sharecroppers should be able to detail those findings even if the descendants who are donors and politically connected don't want their ancestor's acts published.

Liberty requires their staff to sign a statement that they believe in the young earth account of creation. A geologist who has done real research, not reading textbooks or googling, but actual scientific testing that supports the broad consensus on the age of the earth is ineligible for employment unless. they lie and sign the statement. Down the road at JMU a faculty member is free to agree with the consensus or reject it and believe young earth creation as long as it doesn't interfere with their teaching. They aren't required to sign a statement one way or the other.

Liberty had approached AAC, MAC, Sun Belt, and CUSA and drawn no interest even when those leagues were looking to add teams.

Rumor mill says if UMass had accepted the mandate to join MAC all sports it would have been JMU not Liberty rounding out the lineup. When MAC was poised to invite WKU and MTSU and it collapsed because MTSU pulled out, MAC didn't just switch it up to WKU and Liberty.

Sun Belt looked hard at Liberty and instead of taking them or NMSU or Jacksonville State or Eastern Kentucky who were seeking membership the conference instead elected to pursue Coastal Carolina, a school that had not sought membership.

CUSA falling to five got them in the door because they were turn key ready as a FBS member along with NMSU who Sun Belt had also rejected as a full member and Jacksonville State who never even got far enough along to make a presentation to the Sun Belt.

It matters. The presidents spend a lot of time talking with each other and joint academic projects aren't unknown.

I'm a pragmatist and while I think Liberty has hurdles to go any place other than CUSA in the near-term, if they reach a point where they can enrich the membership, hurdles can be jumped.

(09-24-2023 09:44 PM)CatMom Wrote:  Don't we do this type thread 2 or 3 times a year?
We are just really settling onto the 4 new adds being bona fides in the SBC and you're all already talking adding even more?

We do.

As I stated in another post, I don't think there is anyone willing to join at this time that adds sufficient value to add them.

Would I like ECU, or USF, or UAB, or Memphis or UTSA? Sure. But right now none can financially justify the move.

I mean we were talking to USM and Marshall and I suspect UAB before AAC got gutted and turned to CUSA to backfill and there was interest, none pulled the trigger until CUSA became a mess.

(09-24-2023 09:24 PM)rileylives Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 08:22 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  To paraphrase . . .

NO TO LIBERTY TODAY. NO TO LIBERTY TOMORROW. NO TO LIBERTY FOREVER.

They are NOT a “Like” Institution, and therefore would not be a good fit.

I don't want to hear that, let's just set the record straight, what's your admitting is that you think college presidents don't like to rub shoulders with Christians, I'll say it. The Falwells are out of power now, and we're a football conference for Pete's sake, not setting up the next PAC 12 or ACC.

We sound like those AAC elites when making the claim they are not a "like" institution.

Last I checked, they're a pretty good football program, and would have instant heel credibility on multiple factors (additional eye balls and buts in seats).

On merit, they belong in the conversation. To not even include them in a poll like this is insane.

First, I never said anything about Christians…. . rubbing shoulders or otherwise. Though, I understand that Lions find them quite tasty.

Second, citing Liberty as a non-like institution is not elitism, it’s a Fact. They’re a Private Institution with questionable Academic Practices.

Lastly, I could give a s&$t about their FB program. As far as I’m concerned, they’re a CUSA property, and right where they belong.

Other teams I'd like to be in a conference with:

ECU (rival, and would make the East even better)

Memphis (West add, Elite Bball, solid FB, historical stAte Rival)

USF (Florida team/recruiting, sorely lacking, plus Clearwater area)

Tulane (Southern Miss rival, elite Academics, solid addition to our baseball)

Army, Navy (National recognition/great away game atmospheres)

----
Yes I know you said no Privates)

(09-24-2023 06:52 PM)Cajuns1252 Wrote:  I like the idea of UTSA because it takes TXST off the island, and Memphis does the same for Arkansas state.

1) UTSA
2) Memphis
3)ECU

Honorable mention:

I’ve always liked Ohio


Not ready but geographically could be worth it one day
1) Missouri State
2) UWF (don’t like that there D2 but Damn there a great geographic fit)

Seriously why do people keep bringing up Mo St and a school no one had even heard about before someone made a joke about possibilities for the future?

And, I could be wrong, but I thought all the old heads would rather fold up shop than let La Tech back in the league...

The AAC TV contract hasn’t imploded yet, but it is inevitable. In a few years, ECU would be the linchpin that would make adding teams worth it. If they don’t come, don’t mess up what we have. If they do come, however, they are super centralized in the East division and a slam dunk add in every way.
My choice for the West would be USF. It would be enough benefit for our recruiting to have a Florida presence, and being in Tampa for flights helps the extra travel burden a little. Also, USF has history in the Big East and brings cred that way, even if currently struggling on the football field. (Who’s to say what they will look like by the time the AAC contract is up?) USF could be the one “city team” in the West to match GSU in the East. They have an appropriately sized OCS on the way. It would still give the SBC a regionalized conference with one foothold each in TX and FL. If we want to keep divisions, we could still do so by only playing only one cross division game a year. The only thing I could see messing this up is the ACC needing backfill when they also inevitably implode.