(09-23-2023 11:43 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 11:35 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:25 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 12:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  Considering they never gave the Big XII that choice?

We can argue about whether Calford spurned the Big 12 or vice versa, or neither b/c the networks refused to pay a dime for either of them, but we cannot argue that SMU has wanted to join the Big 12 for 25 years and never got an invite. So, 1 certain Big 12 leftover and 2 maybe Big 12 leftovers at least.

It’s not really an argument. The fact of the matter regarding Stanford and Cal is the ACC had been in exploratory talks with them since summer 2022, along with UW and UO. The battle lines were drawn, as Yormark went with the four corners schools and a few G5s. Priorities were set and relationships established. In no world is SDSU more valuable than Cal or Stanford, yet their name was written in dry erase on the infamous Whiteboard. That’s all we need to know. Case closed.

I agree the Big XII wanted nothing to do with SMU, but it was because of TCU. Including SMU would damage TCU; there is nuance here you are not taking into account. SMU is more valuable to the ACC than they are to the Big XII. Plus the bargain bin deal the ACC got them for is really incredible and unheard of in realignment history.

You’re just trying to spin a narrative while ignoring what’s happening on the field right now. Texas and Oklahoma lift all programs around them and it’s becoming evident what the Big XII will look like without them.

In the world of football and basketball SDSU is absolutely more valuable than Cal and Stanford. Now if you care about Women’s Water Polo than Stanford is one of the best. But for football and basketball both Cal and Stanford are horrible. It’s going to be seen just how bad when ESPN puts them on ESPN2 at 10:30 eastern against Boston College.

Actual athletic performance is only a portion of the overall brand for each school. Ask Boise how being a great football team helped them get to the Big XII…

How about the Aztecs? They were so great but the Big XII added Colorado and Arizona before them.

Cal and Stanford don’t win and can’t draw flies. And we aren’t talking about AZ or Colorado. Have you ever attended a sporting event at either school. Their TV ratings are a function of opponent/channel/time. That all is about to change.

(09-23-2023 03:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 11:35 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 11:25 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 12:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  Considering they never gave the Big XII that choice?

We can argue about whether Calford spurned the Big 12 or vice versa, or neither b/c the networks refused to pay a dime for either of them, but we cannot argue that SMU has wanted to join the Big 12 for 25 years and never got an invite. So, 1 certain Big 12 leftover and 2 maybe Big 12 leftovers at least.

It’s not really an argument. The fact of the matter regarding Stanford and Cal is the ACC had been in exploratory talks with them since summer 2022, along with UW and UO. The battle lines were drawn, as Yormark went with the four corners schools and a few G5s. Priorities were set and relationships established. In no world is SDSU more valuable than Cal or Stanford, yet their name was written in dry erase on the infamous Whiteboard. That’s all we need to know. Case closed.

I agree the Big XII wanted nothing to do with SMU, but it was because of TCU. Including SMU would damage TCU; there is nuance here you are not taking into account. SMU is more valuable to the ACC than they are to the Big XII. Plus the bargain bin deal the ACC got them for is really incredible and unheard of in realignment history.

You’re just trying to spin a narrative while ignoring what’s happening on the field right now. Texas and Oklahoma lift all programs around them and it’s becoming evident what the Big XII will look like without them.

In the world of football and basketball SDSU is absolutely more valuable than Cal and Stanford. Now if you care about Women’s Water Polo than Stanford is one of the best. But for football and basketball both Cal and Stanford are horrible. It’s going to be seen just how bad when ESPN puts them on ESPN2 at 10:30 eastern against Boston College.

Hmm

I believe your viewpoint is warped.

Yeah well if I was forming a debate team maybe. I’m not sure Cal and Stanford are in the top 5 CA football/basketball teams and certainly aren’t in the top 3 in either sport.

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Pac-2 is like a penny stock attempting to remain on the NYSE after the company sold all its stores and outlets, and only exists as a mailing list.

I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

Regardless of the name, they can choose whatever record book they want. The Big 12 chose to start fresh. The MWC/2Pac merger could use Pac, MWC or possibly start new.

(09-23-2023 10:48 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 06:10 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 05:38 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

I agree. At a minimum the pac has to grab Memphis, Tulane, USF and the military academies along with the best of the MWC and if possible Gonzaga and maybe even St Mary. If they mean to have any credibility going forward they're going to have to rebuild with the best teams available that also have higher aspirations .you only add any tag-alongs with lower goals as a last resort.

Not USF (too distant), and don't need the military schools to create a best of the rest conference.. Tulane and Memphis, of course. After that, Rice, UTSA and North Texas have some attraction. Bringing in Navy with Wichita St. is intriguing, however if the PAC brings in Hawaii (FB) and Gonzaga.

Maybe it's a west coast thing but anyone that has any idea of who UTSA, North Texas or Rice are understand that they are deadweight programs that would make any respectable rebuild seem "weak ". I can guarantee you that the tv execs will. The Academies bring national prestige along with national eyeballs. Bringing them would allow a legitimate rebuild the option to also add some serious basketball muscle for the eventual NCAA tournament split that IS coming.

As for Rice, North Texas and UTSA it is about location. Also, they would likely pay half the exit fee of Memphis and Tulane. I'm also trying to make sense geographically. UTSA has only been playing DIV 1 FB for 11 or 12 years. I have heard Rice gets decent viewership ratings.

Again, I do think Navy FB paired with Wichita St. in combination with Hawaii FB and Gonzaga would be a good add and would create a good BB conference as well.

(09-24-2023 01:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 10:48 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 06:10 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 05:38 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

I agree. At a minimum the pac has to grab Memphis, Tulane, USF and the military academies along with the best of the MWC and if possible Gonzaga and maybe even St Mary. If they mean to have any credibility going forward they're going to have to rebuild with the best teams available that also have higher aspirations .you only add any tag-alongs with lower goals as a last resort.

Not USF (too distant), and don't need the military schools to create a best of the rest conference.. Tulane and Memphis, of course. After that, Rice, UTSA and North Texas have some attraction. Bringing in Navy with Wichita St. is intriguing, however if the PAC brings in Hawaii (FB) and Gonzaga.

Maybe it's a west coast thing but anyone that has any idea of who UTSA, North Texas or Rice are understand that they are deadweight programs that would make any respectable rebuild seem "weak ". I can guarantee you that the tv execs will. The Academies bring national prestige along with national eyeballs. Bringing them would allow a legitimate rebuild the option to also add some serious basketball muscle for the eventual NCAA tournament split that IS coming.

As for Rice, North Texas and UTSA it is about location. Also, they would likely pay half the exit fee of Memphis and Tulane. I'm also trying to make sense geographically. UTSA has only been playing DIV 1 FB for 11 or 12 years. I have heard Rice gets decent viewership ratings.

Again, I do think Navy FB paired with Wichita St. in combination with Hawaii FB and Gonzaga would be a good add and would create a good BB conference as well.

Rice could be a power, but they're like Stanford without the emphasis on Olympic Sports. Super focused on Academics, content to field a non-competitive football team. UTSA is the opposite, they are trying to follow the UCF model of building things right and getting to the P4, and their Academics are decent but not the overwhelming focus like at Rice. If I had to pick one of them for a new Conference, then it would UTSA.

(09-23-2023 06:10 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 05:38 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Pac-2 is like a penny stock attempting to remain on the NYSE after the company sold all its stores and outlets, and only exists as a mailing list.

I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

I agree. At a minimum the pac has to grab Memphis, Tulane, USF and the military academies along with the best of the MWC and if possible Gonzaga and maybe even St Mary. If they mean to have any credibility going forward they're going to have to rebuild with the best teams available that also have higher aspirations .you only add any tag-alongs with lower goals as a last resort.

Not USF (too distant), and don't need the military schools to create a best of the rest conference.. Tulane and Memphis, of course. After that, Rice, UTSA and North Texas have some attraction. Bringing in Navy with Wichita St. is intriguing, however if the PAC brings in Hawaii (FB) and Gonzaga.

USF is too far east - Memphis is as far east as the PAC should go. Budgets are too tight to be a coast to coast conference. Tulane and Memphis for sure - possibly Rice and UTSA. Rice has to make the committment to athletics; they certainly have the money. All 4 schools are good cities from a size standpoint.

(09-25-2023 12:48 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 01:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 10:48 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 06:10 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 05:38 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  I agree. At a minimum the pac has to grab Memphis, Tulane, USF and the military academies along with the best of the MWC and if possible Gonzaga and maybe even St Mary. If they mean to have any credibility going forward they're going to have to rebuild with the best teams available that also have higher aspirations .you only add any tag-alongs with lower goals as a last resort.

Not USF (too distant), and don't need the military schools to create a best of the rest conference.. Tulane and Memphis, of course. After that, Rice, UTSA and North Texas have some attraction. Bringing in Navy with Wichita St. is intriguing, however if the PAC brings in Hawaii (FB) and Gonzaga.

Maybe it's a west coast thing but anyone that has any idea of who UTSA, North Texas or Rice are understand that they are deadweight programs that would make any respectable rebuild seem "weak ". I can guarantee you that the tv execs will. The Academies bring national prestige along with national eyeballs. Bringing them would allow a legitimate rebuild the option to also add some serious basketball muscle for the eventual NCAA tournament split that IS coming.

As for Rice, North Texas and UTSA it is about location. Also, they would likely pay half the exit fee of Memphis and Tulane. I'm also trying to make sense geographically. UTSA has only been playing DIV 1 FB for 11 or 12 years. I have heard Rice gets decent viewership ratings.

Again, I do think Navy FB paired with Wichita St. in combination with Hawaii FB and Gonzaga would be a good add and would create a good BB conference as well.

Rice could be a power, but they're like Stanford without the emphasis on Olympic Sports. Super focused on Academics, content to field a non-competitive football team. UTSA is the opposite, they are trying to follow the UCF model of building things right and getting to the P4, and their Academics are decent but not the overwhelming focus like at Rice. If I had to pick one of them for a new Conference, then it would UTSA.

I am quite keen on UTSA. Big market and they are the main school in that market. Gets into Texas which is good for recruiting. In my "perfect world" for a "best of the rest" conference would be:

West

OSU
WSU
SDSU
Fresno
UNLV
Hawaii FB/Gonzaga

East

BSU
CSU
AFA FB/Wichita St
Memphis
Tulane
Rice

If you want to go to 14 teams move BSU to the West and add two from Navy FB, Tulsa & North Texas. Not sure if there is another Oly sports school to pair with Navy so perhaps have AFA in all sports. Navy would always draw well in San Diego.

(09-25-2023 11:05 AM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-25-2023 12:48 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 01:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 10:48 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 06:10 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Not USF (too distant), and don't need the military schools to create a best of the rest conference.. Tulane and Memphis, of course. After that, Rice, UTSA and North Texas have some attraction. Bringing in Navy with Wichita St. is intriguing, however if the PAC brings in Hawaii (FB) and Gonzaga.

Maybe it's a west coast thing but anyone that has any idea of who UTSA, North Texas or Rice are understand that they are deadweight programs that would make any respectable rebuild seem "weak ". I can guarantee you that the tv execs will. The Academies bring national prestige along with national eyeballs. Bringing them would allow a legitimate rebuild the option to also add some serious basketball muscle for the eventual NCAA tournament split that IS coming.

As for Rice, North Texas and UTSA it is about location. Also, they would likely pay half the exit fee of Memphis and Tulane. I'm also trying to make sense geographically. UTSA has only been playing DIV 1 FB for 11 or 12 years. I have heard Rice gets decent viewership ratings.

Again, I do think Navy FB paired with Wichita St. in combination with Hawaii FB and Gonzaga would be a good add and would create a good BB conference as well.

Rice could be a power, but they're like Stanford without the emphasis on Olympic Sports. Super focused on Academics, content to field a non-competitive football team. UTSA is the opposite, they are trying to follow the UCF model of building things right and getting to the P4, and their Academics are decent but not the overwhelming focus like at Rice. If I had to pick one of them for a new Conference, then it would UTSA.

I am quite keen on UTSA. Big market and they are the main school in that market. Gets into Texas which is good for recruiting. In my "perfect world" for a "best of the rest" conference would be:

West

OSU
WSU
SDSU
Fresno
UNLV
Hawaii FB/Gonzaga

East

BSU
CSU
AFA FB/Wichita St
Memphis
Tulane
Rice

If you want to go to 14 teams move BSU to the West and add two from Navy FB, Tulsa & North Texas. Not sure if there is another Oly sports school to pair with Navy so perhaps have AFA in all sports. Navy would always draw well in San Diego.

UTSA is the entire local sports scene in SA, at least it was until the Spurs drafted Wembanyama. They averaged about 29k last year for home games, and they're at 38k this year through 2 games. If I was in charge of rebuilding the Pac, I'd put them high on my list.

(09-25-2023 02:36 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-25-2023 11:05 AM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-25-2023 12:48 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 01:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 10:48 PM)Tigersmoke4 Wrote:  Maybe it's a west coast thing but anyone that has any idea of who UTSA, North Texas or Rice are understand that they are deadweight programs that would make any respectable rebuild seem "weak ". I can guarantee you that the tv execs will. The Academies bring national prestige along with national eyeballs. Bringing them would allow a legitimate rebuild the option to also add some serious basketball muscle for the eventual NCAA tournament split that IS coming.

As for Rice, North Texas and UTSA it is about location. Also, they would likely pay half the exit fee of Memphis and Tulane. I'm also trying to make sense geographically. UTSA has only been playing DIV 1 FB for 11 or 12 years. I have heard Rice gets decent viewership ratings.

Again, I do think Navy FB paired with Wichita St. in combination with Hawaii FB and Gonzaga would be a good add and would create a good BB conference as well.

Rice could be a power, but they're like Stanford without the emphasis on Olympic Sports. Super focused on Academics, content to field a non-competitive football team. UTSA is the opposite, they are trying to follow the UCF model of building things right and getting to the P4, and their Academics are decent but not the overwhelming focus like at Rice. If I had to pick one of them for a new Conference, then it would UTSA.

I am quite keen on UTSA. Big market and they are the main school in that market. Gets into Texas which is good for recruiting. In my "perfect world" for a "best of the rest" conference would be:

West

OSU
WSU
SDSU
Fresno
UNLV
Hawaii FB/Gonzaga

East

BSU
CSU
AFA FB/Wichita St
Memphis
Tulane
Rice

If you want to go to 14 teams move BSU to the West and add two from Navy FB, Tulsa & North Texas. Not sure if there is another Oly sports school to pair with Navy so perhaps have AFA in all sports. Navy would always draw well in San Diego.

UTSA is the entire local sports scene in SA, at least it was until the Spurs drafted Wembanyama. They averaged about 29k last year for home games, and they're at 38k this year through 2 games. If I was in charge of rebuilding the Pac, I'd put them high on my list.

UTSA, Memphis and Tulane are must gets. Really depends on if a few go or if all MWC go and we do the relegation thing. If it’s relegation then 24 is the absolute minimum and 32 is better.

The funny thing is if it’s the latter it’s not clear SDSU makes the upper tier league: Fresno, Wyoming, AF, Boise, are all clearly better…. UNLV, SJSU, CSU, Hawaii all could be better.

I’m not sure if I could stop laughing if they did the relegation model and SDSU didn’t make it.

Washington State scheduled a home/home with North Texas in 2025/2030

Its probably nothing

(09-23-2023 12:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 10:47 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:25 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:23 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  I hope they can keep the [PAC] name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

You should be. That's the odds-on scenerio, after WSU+OSU get full control, settle the PAC's fianance + personel issues, and get final word from BY/BigXII.

Tight timeframe to do all of that.

No rush -- OSU and WSU have two years. Until then they can do a scheduling alliance with the most likely future partner, if they make the terms favorable.

However, if whoever of the PAC10gone didn't challenge the PAC's withdrawal rules recently (thus OSU+WSU's would have near-absolute rule now of the PAC-12), this could have been handled yesterday.

They (WSU/OSU admins) claim they can put together a schedule as late as late fall, but I think that would be pushing it. Thanksgiving? That would be really late.

And independence would basically decimate their programs. Everyone good would transfer in all the sports. They wouldn't be able to recruit. There would be no chance for NCAA championships. It is not really a feasible alternative. Even Notre Dame requires a conference for sports other than football.

I think their only choice at this point is joining with the MWC. The only questions are the structure it takes.

We've been down this road before. There still is time to put together an independent, or quasi-independent, schedule for 2024, although time is starting to run low.

Both Oregon State and Washington State have three OOC games scheduled for 2024, which should be unaffected by realignment. Schedule each other, and they're up to four games apiece.

From there, the following FBS programs all have at least one open date remaining for 2024:

Boston College
Duke
North Carolina State
Rice (2 dates)
Northwestern
Rutgers
FIU
Army (2 dates)*
UConn
Notre Dame
Central Michigan
Boise State (already scheduled to play Oregon State, would have to schedule Washington State)
Nevada
New Mexico
UNLV
Utah State
Cal
Stanford
UCLA
Washington
Auburn

* Based on current schedule. If Army joins the AAC, those dates likely will be subsumed by conference games. However, that also means that Army will have to schedule six additional games on the schedule, which will free up an additional date for the affected opponents. Cancelled games figure to come from among Ball State, UConn, Syracuse, Dartmouth (FCS), Rice, UNLV, UMass and Wake Forest. This assumes that Army will keep both Air Force and Navy, and that Army-Navy game will be OOC.

In addition, a number of previously scheduled OOC games for 2024 become conference games as a result of realignment. Not sure how these will be treated. They are:

Arizona-Kansas State
Baylor-Utah
BYU-Utah

Finally, the Indiana-Louisville game has been cancelled. Indiana says that it will pick up an FCS opponent. Not sure what Louisville's plans are, so they may get an open date as well.

It's a tight fit, but there are more than enough games available for both to put together a full schedule. The bigger problem may come for basketball and olympic sports.

Note: none of this is to suggest that independence is a long-term option for either Oregon State or Washington State. Long-term, I think a merger with the Mountain West is the only option, unless the Big XII or ACC has a change of heart (both unlikely.) But I do think an independent or quasi-independent schedule may be a stopgap necessity in the short term.

(09-26-2023 10:07 AM)tf8693 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 12:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 10:47 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:25 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:23 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  You should be. That's the odds-on scenerio, after WSU+OSU get full control, settle the PAC's fianance + personel issues, and get final word from BY/BigXII.

Tight timeframe to do all of that.

No rush -- OSU and WSU have two years. Until then they can do a scheduling alliance with the most likely future partner, if they make the terms favorable.

However, if whoever of the PAC10gone didn't challenge the PAC's withdrawal rules recently (thus OSU+WSU's would have near-absolute rule now of the PAC-12), this could have been handled yesterday.

They (WSU/OSU admins) claim they can put together a schedule as late as late fall, but I think that would be pushing it. Thanksgiving? That would be really late.

And independence would basically decimate their programs. Everyone good would transfer in all the sports. They wouldn't be able to recruit. There would be no chance for NCAA championships. It is not really a feasible alternative. Even Notre Dame requires a conference for sports other than football.

I think their only choice at this point is joining with the MWC. The only questions are the structure it takes.

We've been down this road before. There still is time to put together an independent, or quasi-independent, schedule for 2024, although time is starting to run low.

Both Oregon State and Washington State have three OOC games scheduled for 2024, which should be unaffected by realignment. Schedule each other, and they're up to four games apiece.

From there, the following FBS programs all have at least one open date remaining for 2024:

Boston College
Duke
North Carolina State
Rice (2 dates)
Northwestern
Rutgers
FIU
Army (2 dates)*
UConn
Notre Dame
Central Michigan
Boise State (already scheduled to play Oregon State, would have to schedule Washington State)
Nevada
New Mexico
UNLV
Utah State
Cal
Stanford
UCLA
Washington
Auburn

* Based on current schedule. If Army joins the AAC, those dates likely will be subsumed by conference games. However, that also means that Army will have to schedule six additional games on the schedule, which will free up an additional date for the affected opponents. Cancelled games figure to come from among Ball State, UConn, Syracuse, Dartmouth (FCS), Rice, UNLV, UMass and Wake Forest. This assumes that Army will keep both Air Force and Navy, and that Army-Navy game will be OOC.

In addition, a number of previously scheduled OOC games for 2024 become conference games as a result of realignment. Not sure how these will be treated. They are:

Arizona-Kansas State
Baylor-Utah
BYU-Utah

Finally, the Indiana-Louisville game has been cancelled. Indiana says that it will pick up an FCS opponent. Not sure what Louisville's plans are, so they may get an open date as well.

It's a tight fit, but there are more than enough games available for both to put together a full schedule. The bigger problem may come for basketball and olympic sports.

Note: none of this is to suggest that independence is a long-term option for either Oregon State or Washington State. Long-term, I think a merger with the Mountain West is the only option, unless the Big XII or ACC has a change of heart (both unlikely.) But I do think an independent or quasi-independent schedule may be a stopgap necessity in the short term.

The number of games is one problem, the bigger issue is timing. How many of those schools looking for a game have open dates in Oct and Nov? That's usually a full stock of conference games that can't be bought out for any price.
Now multiply these problems for ALL sports. A 2024 indy schedule is effectively impossible unless WOSU want to play each other constantly.

Maybe the ACC is patiently waiting for WOSU to win their court battle, and then offering them once they can afford to come into the league on partial shares like Stanford and Cal did? Two top 25 football programs would surely help the ACC stake its claim as the clear #3 and offer travel partners to the newest members.

(09-26-2023 10:54 AM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  Maybe the ACC is patiently waiting for WOSU to win their court battle, and then offering them once they can afford to come into the league on partial shares like Stanford and Cal did? Two top 25 football programs would surely help the ACC stake its claim as the clear #3 and offer travel partners to the newest members.

4 west coast teams would definitely improve scheduling. Under 3 + 5/5/5 scheduling format for football, schools would have three permanent rivals and rotate other conference members so that every member would play every other member every three years and home and home over a six year cycle. The west coast teams would have all of their permanent rivals on the west coast.

In basketball, you would have one permanent rival that you play home and home annually, and play every other conference member once annually to make a 20 game schedule.

The key question is whether ESPN would pay full television shares for WOSU. Without a commitment from ESPN, further expansion does not work. I assume WOSU would take reduced payouts.

(09-26-2023 10:24 AM)clunk Wrote:  

(09-26-2023 10:07 AM)tf8693 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 12:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 10:47 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:25 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  Tight timeframe to do all of that.

No rush -- OSU and WSU have two years. Until then they can do a scheduling alliance with the most likely future partner, if they make the terms favorable.

However, if whoever of the PAC10gone didn't challenge the PAC's withdrawal rules recently (thus OSU+WSU's would have near-absolute rule now of the PAC-12), this could have been handled yesterday.

They (WSU/OSU admins) claim they can put together a schedule as late as late fall, but I think that would be pushing it. Thanksgiving? That would be really late.

And independence would basically decimate their programs. Everyone good would transfer in all the sports. They wouldn't be able to recruit. There would be no chance for NCAA championships. It is not really a feasible alternative. Even Notre Dame requires a conference for sports other than football.

I think their only choice at this point is joining with the MWC. The only questions are the structure it takes.

We've been down this road before. There still is time to put together an independent, or quasi-independent, schedule for 2024, although time is starting to run low.

Both Oregon State and Washington State have three OOC games scheduled for 2024, which should be unaffected by realignment. Schedule each other, and they're up to four games apiece.

From there, the following FBS programs all have at least one open date remaining for 2024:

Boston College
Duke
North Carolina State
Rice (2 dates)
Northwestern
Rutgers
FIU
Army (2 dates)*
UConn
Notre Dame
Central Michigan
Boise State (already scheduled to play Oregon State, would have to schedule Washington State)
Nevada
New Mexico
UNLV
Utah State
Cal
Stanford
UCLA
Washington
Auburn

* Based on current schedule. If Army joins the AAC, those dates likely will be subsumed by conference games. However, that also means that Army will have to schedule six additional games on the schedule, which will free up an additional date for the affected opponents. Cancelled games figure to come from among Ball State, UConn, Syracuse, Dartmouth (FCS), Rice, UNLV, UMass and Wake Forest. This assumes that Army will keep both Air Force and Navy, and that Army-Navy game will be OOC.

In addition, a number of previously scheduled OOC games for 2024 become conference games as a result of realignment. Not sure how these will be treated. They are:

Arizona-Kansas State
Baylor-Utah
BYU-Utah

Finally, the Indiana-Louisville game has been cancelled. Indiana says that it will pick up an FCS opponent. Not sure what Louisville's plans are, so they may get an open date as well.

It's a tight fit, but there are more than enough games available for both to put together a full schedule. The bigger problem may come for basketball and olympic sports.

Note: none of this is to suggest that independence is a long-term option for either Oregon State or Washington State. Long-term, I think a merger with the Mountain West is the only option, unless the Big XII or ACC has a change of heart (both unlikely.) But I do think an independent or quasi-independent schedule may be a stopgap necessity in the short term.

The number of games is one problem, the bigger issue is timing. How many of those schools looking for a game have open dates in Oct and Nov? That's usually a full stock of conference games that can't be bought out for any price.

Nobody's conference schedule has been finalized yet. They have opponents, but not dates. Conference schedules begin earlier now than they used to, and a number of FBS programs already have played at least one conference game. Washington State and Oregon State could schedule each other for late in the season (they'll probably have to do that), and ND would only have an open date for either 10/5, 11/2 or 11/23 (they would have bye weeks in the other two dates.) Because of Labor Day falling on 9/1, there are two bye weeks per team next year, so both of those could be scheduled for October and November. Based on that, one of these teams would have 3 of 9 October/November dates taken care of, the other would have 4. Once you've scheduled the remaining games, perhaps a small payment to conferences in question could guarantee an available date in remaining weekends in October and November.

Quote:Now multiply these problems for ALL sports. A 2024 indy schedule is effectively impossible unless WOSU want to play each other constantly.

I've already said you probably can't do this for other sports. They may have to park basketball and olympic sports in the Big West, WAC or WCC for a year or two.

(09-24-2023 01:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  As for Rice, North Texas and UTSA it is about location. Also, they would likely pay half the exit fee of Memphis and Tulane. I'm also trying to make sense geographically. UTSA has only been playing DIV 1 FB for 11 or 12 years. I have heard Rice gets decent viewership ratings.

Again, I do think Navy FB paired with Wichita St. in combination with Hawaii FB and Gonzaga would be a good add and would create a good BB conference as well.

um, where have you "heard" this? (all 3 fans want to know)...

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Pac-2 is like a penny stock attempting to remain on the NYSE after the company sold all its stores and outlets, and only exists as a mailing list.

I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

Stu, honestly, this is laughable. You're saying that OSU and WSU should abandon the Pac-12 brand, one of the few relatively valuable assets left to them, simply so that the legacy of the conference isn't spoiled by their restocking with so-called lesser schools? Members that leave a conference don't (or shouldn't) have any say in the future of that conference -- or its past.

(09-26-2023 10:54 AM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  Maybe the ACC is patiently waiting for WOSU to win their court battle, and then offering them once they can afford to come into the league on partial shares like Stanford and Cal did? Two top 25 football programs would surely help the ACC stake its claim as the clear #3 and offer travel partners to the newest members.

That's not how travel partners work unfortunately. Neither OSU nor WSU are close enough to Calford for their olympic sports to be able to play multiple teams within a weekend.

(09-26-2023 11:13 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(09-24-2023 01:33 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  As for Rice, North Texas and UTSA it is about location. Also, they would likely pay half the exit fee of Memphis and Tulane. I'm also trying to make sense geographically. UTSA has only been playing DIV 1 FB for 11 or 12 years. I have heard Rice gets decent viewership ratings.

Again, I do think Navy FB paired with Wichita St. in combination with Hawaii FB and Gonzaga would be a good add and would create a good BB conference as well.

um, where have you "heard" this? (all 3 fans want to know)...

There was a graph going around of average viewership of a bunch of teams and Rice ended up looking pretty nice because their sample size was only 3 games (presumably against Texas or Houston) and everyone else's were 10x that.

(09-23-2023 04:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(09-23-2023 08:17 AM)Garden_KC Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The Pac-2 is like a penny stock attempting to remain on the NYSE after the company sold all its stores and outlets, and only exists as a mailing list.

I hope they can keep the name alive and bring it over to the MWC.

But I'm not optimistic.

I hope not. I hate to see the conference and records of the basketball and football greats who played for Rose Bowl and National Championships broken by players going against much lower competition and just happy to make a pre-Christmas Bowl game and the NIT.

It is better the conference always be associated with the likes of USC, UCLA, Washington, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Arizona (Basketball) and not by the likes of New Mexico, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii and SJSU. Frankly, I'd rather the MWC schools and the PNW "State" schools buy the WAC name from the glop that currently holds it.

Talk about a God awful take. A good reminder why i'm very thankful the Big12 said no to CAL and Stanford, no need for that overinflated ego and snobbiness