(09-21-2023 12:27 AM)jrj84105 Wrote: I still think that Oklahoma State and Iowa State have the lowest potential floor of any of the B12 programs because from the low population states (Iowa, Kansas, Utah, Oklahoma, West Virginia) those two are the ones that have an in-state P2 competitor. OKSU and ISU are intrinsically disadvantaged compared to the rest and appear to be coming into the nB12 with no momentum. I think they’re more likely to be culled than WF and BC which is why I think the B12 fails and not the ACC.
Since the Big 12 became numerically challenged in 2011, Oklahoma St. has the 2nd best conference record in that span. They draw a lot of students and athletes from Texas. They are #6 among all schools in NCAA titles with 52. Texas (56) and Penn St. (53) passed them in the last couple of years. They have an NCAA basketball title and a winning record all time in football, unlike KSU, KU and ISU. They did fine when OU was on all time winning streaks in the Big 7 and they were still in the MVC.
Oklahoma has twice the population of Nebraska. It has 1/3 more than Mississippi which has 2 P2 schools, 1/3 more than Kansas which has 2 P5 schools and 25% more than Utah and Iowa which have 2 P5 schools.
Actually, OK St has 2 NCAA basketball titles from way back (consecutive, I believe) before they joined the Big 6 (they were Oklahoma A&M at the time). Many (most) of those titles may be in wrestling.
Wrestling and golf.
While OU was becoming an 800 pound gorilla in football, OSU invested their limited resources in non-revenue sports. They have 34 national championships in wrestling and 11 in men's golf.
As Bullet alludes to, when discussing the location of OU or OSU, their location in relation to the state of Texas must be taken into account. OSU is located in northern Oklahoma, but is still only 4 hours from DFW. OSU recruits Texas heavily for athletes and for regular students. Both OU and OSU function athletically as Texas schools. For this discussion, OSU is more like Texas Tech than Iowa State.
I'm not bullish on OSU's football future in a post-OU/Texas Big 12. They have to get on board with NIL and the transfer portal, but I don't know if they can get another coach that fits them better than Gundy. And, they need OU more than they're willing to admit. Their pride is leading them to cut themselves off from OU when they need Bedlam the most. But I don't see them getting relegated to a lesser conference than the new Big 12.
Bedlam has been so 1-sided, I don't blame them for ending it. By the time they relent, you guys won't want to schedule them, unfortunately. You'll have 8-9 very tough SEC games, and 1 game for a National opponent. USC, Washington, or Miami looks a lot better than a school 80 miles away.
OSU has some attractive home non-conference opponents in the future such as Alabama, Arkansas, Nebraska, and Oregon. They don't want to give those up. Alabama going to Stillwater in 2028 is a really huge deal. That'll be the biggest non-conference game they've had since Georgia came in to open their rebuilt stadium.
Still, I don't really blame OSU for dumping Bedlam football, but they're keeping it for the sports in which OSU can beat OU...which are all of them, even softball. It's an 80 mile trip. OU is taking the high road. OU's athletic department can't afford not to play OSU in as many sports as possible. It's a cheap, short trip to play a power conference opponent. OU isn't going to burn that bridge if they don't have to.
There may be a situation in the future where OU plays OSU in addition to a name brand opponent. There will be new administrations at both schools when it happens.
(This post was last modified: 09-21-2023 11:48 PM by johnintx.)
(09-21-2023 08:45 AM)bullet Wrote: Since the Big 12 became numerically challenged in 2011, Oklahoma St. has the 2nd best conference record in that span. They draw a lot of students and athletes from Texas. They are #6 among all schools in NCAA titles with 52. Texas (56) and Penn St. (53) passed them in the last couple of years. They have an NCAA basketball title and a winning record all time in football, unlike KSU, KU and ISU. They did fine when OU was on all time winning streaks in the Big 7 and they were still in the MVC.
Oklahoma has twice the population of Nebraska. It has 1/3 more than Mississippi which has 2 P2 schools, 1/3 more than Kansas which has 2 P5 schools and 25% more than Utah and Iowa which have 2 P5 schools.
Actually, OK St has 2 NCAA basketball titles from way back (consecutive, I believe) before they joined the Big 6 (they were Oklahoma A&M at the time). Many (most) of those titles may be in wrestling.
Wrestling and golf.
While OU was becoming an 800 pound gorilla in football, OSU invested their limited resources in non-revenue sports. They have 34 national championships in wrestling and 11 in men's golf.
As Bullet alludes to, when discussing the location of OU or OSU, their location in relation to the state of Texas must be taken into account. OSU is located in northern Oklahoma, but is still only 4 hours from DFW. OSU recruits Texas heavily for athletes and for regular students. Both OU and OSU function athletically as Texas schools. For this discussion, OSU is more like Texas Tech than Iowa State.
I'm not bullish on OSU's football future in a post-OU/Texas Big 12. They have to get on board with NIL and the transfer portal, but I don't know if they can get another coach that fits them better than Gundy. And, they need OU more than they're willing to admit. Their pride is leading them to cut themselves off from OU when they need Bedlam the most. But I don't see them getting relegated to a lesser conference than the new Big 12.
Bedlam has been so 1-sided, I don't blame them for ending it. By the time they relent, you guys won't want to schedule them, unfortunately. You'll have 8-9 very tough SEC games, and 1 game for a National opponent. USC, Washington, or Miami looks a lot better than a school 80 miles away.
OSU has some attractive home non-conference opponents in the future such as Alabama, Arkansas, Nebraska, and Oregon. They don't want to give those up. Alabama going to Stillwater in 2028 is a really huge deal. That'll be the biggest non-conference game they've had since Georgia came in to open their rebuilt stadium.
Still, I don't really blame OSU for dumping Bedlam football, but they're keeping it for the sports in which OSU can beat OU...which are all of them, even softball. It's an 80 mile trip. OU is taking the high road. OU's athletic department can't afford not to play OSU in as many sports as possible. It's a cheap, short trip to play a power conference opponent. OU isn't going to burn that bridge if they don't have to.
There may be a situation in the future where OU plays OSU in addition to a name brand opponent. There will be new administrations at both schools when it happens.
Yeah, I'm not saying that OU is going to harbor ill-will about it, I'm just saying that, at least in football, there will be higher priorities for a while. Down the road maybe? Yeah, it could happen, perhaps even long-term, but if it remains as one-sided as it's been thus far, OSU will quickly find other OOC teams to schedule.
(09-21-2023 10:48 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote: Bedlam has been so 1-sided, I don't blame them for ending it. By the time they relent, you guys won't want to schedule them, unfortunately. You'll have 8-9 very tough SEC games, and 1 game for a National opponent. USC, Washington, or Miami looks a lot better than a school 80 miles away.
OSU has some attractive home non-conference opponents in the future such as Alabama, Arkansas, Nebraska, and Oregon. They don't want to give those up. Alabama going to Stillwater in 2028 is a really huge deal. That'll be the biggest non-conference game they've had since Georgia came in to open their rebuilt stadium.
Still, I don't really blame OSU for dumping Bedlam football, but they're keeping it for the sports in which OSU can beat OU...which are all of them, even softball. It's an 80 mile trip. OU is taking the high road. OU's athletic department can't afford not to play OSU in as many sports as possible. It's a cheap, short trip to play a power conference opponent. OU isn't going to burn that bridge if they don't have to.
There may be a situation in the future where OU plays OSU in addition to a name brand opponent. There will be new administrations at both schools when it happens.
Yeah, I'm not saying that OU is going to harbor ill-will about it, I'm just saying that, at least in football, there will be higher priorities for a while. Down the road maybe? Yeah, it could happen, perhaps even long-term, but if it remains as one-sided as it's been thus far, OSU will quickly find other OOC teams to schedule.
Yep. They've already found one. OSU is playing Tulsa home-and-home for at least the next eight years. Tulsa is replacing OU as the in-state rival for them. It's a win-win for both parties: OSU can win that game most years, and their fans will fill up Tulsa's stadium in years when they play there.
If the expected on-field separation between the SEC and Big 12 occurs, Bedlam may never come back in football for competitive reasons.
(09-21-2023 10:48 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote: Bedlam has been so 1-sided, I don't blame them for ending it. By the time they relent, you guys won't want to schedule them, unfortunately. You'll have 8-9 very tough SEC games, and 1 game for a National opponent. USC, Washington, or Miami looks a lot better than a school 80 miles away.
OSU has some attractive home non-conference opponents in the future such as Alabama, Arkansas, Nebraska, and Oregon. They don't want to give those up. Alabama going to Stillwater in 2028 is a really huge deal. That'll be the biggest non-conference game they've had since Georgia came in to open their rebuilt stadium.
Still, I don't really blame OSU for dumping Bedlam football, but they're keeping it for the sports in which OSU can beat OU...which are all of them, even softball. It's an 80 mile trip. OU is taking the high road. OU's athletic department can't afford not to play OSU in as many sports as possible. It's a cheap, short trip to play a power conference opponent. OU isn't going to burn that bridge if they don't have to.
There may be a situation in the future where OU plays OSU in addition to a name brand opponent. There will be new administrations at both schools when it happens.
Yeah, I'm not saying that OU is going to harbor ill-will about it, I'm just saying that, at least in football, there will be higher priorities for a while. Down the road maybe? Yeah, it could happen, perhaps even long-term, but if it remains as one-sided as it's been thus far, OSU will quickly find other OOC teams to schedule.
Yep. They've already found one. OSU is playing Tulsa home-and-home for at least the next eight years. Tulsa is replacing OU as the in-state rival for them. It's a win-win for both parties: OSU can win that game most years, and their fans will fill up Tulsa's stadium in years when they play there.
If the expected on-field separation between the SEC and Big 12 occurs, Bedlam may never come back in football for competitive reasons.
The SEC has been a huge boon for us in the $$ department, as it has been for many others, but I wouldn't expect us to leave the Big 12 behind on the field any more than we do the ACC and B1G. 2 years ago? Sure, I thought they were cooked, and I wouldn't have been shocked to see them just merge with the AAC, but they've manage to recover admirably and will remain a credible competitor to our Conference indefinitely.
(09-22-2023 02:10 PM)johnintx Wrote: If the expected on-field separation between the SEC and Big 12 occurs, Bedlam may never come back in football for competitive reasons.
When these public institutions utilize athletes to support a greater mission that's supposed to enrich the state, the prospect of losing these games always hurts. Cart going way ahead of the horse.
(09-21-2023 12:27 AM)jrj84105 Wrote: I still think that Oklahoma State and Iowa State have the lowest potential floor of any of the B12 programs because from the low population states (Iowa, Kansas, Utah, Oklahoma, West Virginia) those two are the ones that have an in-state P2 competitor. OKSU and ISU are intrinsically disadvantaged compared to the rest and appear to be coming into the nB12 with no momentum. I think they’re more likely to be culled than WF and BC which is why I think the B12 fails and not the ACC.
Since the Big 12 became numerically challenged in 2011, Oklahoma St. has the 2nd best conference record in that span. They draw a lot of students and athletes from Texas. They are #6 among all schools in NCAA titles with 52. Texas (56) and Penn St. (53) passed them in the last couple of years. They have an NCAA basketball title and a winning record all time in football, unlike KSU, KU and ISU. They did fine when OU was on all time winning streaks in the Big 7 and they were still in the MVC.
Oklahoma has twice the population of Nebraska. It has 1/3 more than Mississippi which has 2 P2 schools, 1/3 more than Kansas which has 2 P5 schools and 25% more than Utah and Iowa which have 2 P5 schools.
Actually, OK St has 2 NCAA basketball titles from way back (consecutive, I believe) before they joined the Big 6 (they were Oklahoma A&M at the time). Many (most) of those titles may be in wrestling.
Wrestling and golf.
While OU was becoming an 800 pound gorilla in football, OSU invested their limited resources in non-revenue sports. They have 34 national championships in wrestling and 11 in men's golf.
As Bullet alludes to, when discussing the location of OU or OSU, their location in relation to the state of Texas must be taken into account. OSU is located in northern Oklahoma, but is still only 4 hours from DFW. OSU recruits Texas heavily for athletes and for regular students. Both OU and OSU function athletically as Texas schools. For this discussion, OSU is more like Texas Tech than Iowa State.
I'm not bullish on OSU's football future in a post-OU/Texas Big 12. They have to get on board with NIL and the transfer portal, but I don't know if they can get another coach that fits them better than Gundy. And, they need OU more than they're willing to admit. Their pride is leading them to cut themselves off from OU when they need Bedlam the most. But I don't see them getting relegated to a lesser conference than the new Big 12.
Wait, Oklahoma State wants to end Bedlam in football?? This is idiotic. I would have thought Oklahoma would have wanted to discontinue the series. Ok State has everything to gain and OU everything to lose when it comes to Bedlam. It's like Penn State and Pittsburgh. As long as they don't play, people will continue to see PSU as the top school in PA. Same in Oklahoma. Oklahoma State's only chance at legitimacy in Oklahoma is to play and beat Oklahoma. If Oklahoma is willing to play Oklahoma State, Oklahoma State is completely idiotic to say no (and I'd say the same to Washington State, Oregon State, and to a lesser degree Cal with UCLA although I don't know how much people see Cal-UCLA as a rivalry as opposed to UCLA-USC and Cal-Stanford).
Of course if Oklahoma State wants to be good enough to beat Oklahoma they should first be good enough to beat South Alabama first
(09-21-2023 12:27 AM)jrj84105 Wrote: I still think that Oklahoma State and Iowa State have the lowest potential floor of any of the B12 programs because from the low population states (Iowa, Kansas, Utah, Oklahoma, West Virginia) those two are the ones that have an in-state P2 competitor. OKSU and ISU are intrinsically disadvantaged compared to the rest and appear to be coming into the nB12 with no momentum. I think they’re more likely to be culled than WF and BC which is why I think the B12 fails and not the ACC.
Since the Big 12 became numerically challenged in 2011, Oklahoma St. has the 2nd best conference record in that span. They draw a lot of students and athletes from Texas. They are #6 among all schools in NCAA titles with 52. Texas (56) and Penn St. (53) passed them in the last couple of years. They have an NCAA basketball title and a winning record all time in football, unlike KSU, KU and ISU. They did fine when OU was on all time winning streaks in the Big 7 and they were still in the MVC.
Oklahoma has twice the population of Nebraska. It has 1/3 more than Mississippi which has 2 P2 schools, 1/3 more than Kansas which has 2 P5 schools and 25% more than Utah and Iowa which have 2 P5 schools.
Actually, OK St has 2 NCAA basketball titles from way back (consecutive, I believe) before they joined the Big 6 (they were Oklahoma A&M at the time). Many (most) of those titles may be in wrestling.
Wrestling and golf.
While OU was becoming an 800 pound gorilla in football, OSU invested their limited resources in non-revenue sports. They have 34 national championships in wrestling and 11 in men's golf.
As Bullet alludes to, when discussing the location of OU or OSU, their location in relation to the state of Texas must be taken into account. OSU is located in northern Oklahoma, but is still only 4 hours from DFW. OSU recruits Texas heavily for athletes and for regular students. Both OU and OSU function athletically as Texas schools. For this discussion, OSU is more like Texas Tech than Iowa State.
I'm not bullish on OSU's football future in a post-OU/Texas Big 12. They have to get on board with NIL and the transfer portal, but I don't know if they can get another coach that fits them better than Gundy. And, they need OU more than they're willing to admit. Their pride is leading them to cut themselves off from OU when they need Bedlam the most. But I don't see them getting relegated to a lesser conference than the new Big 12.
Wait, Oklahoma State wants to end Bedlam in football?? This is idiotic. I would have thought Oklahoma would have wanted to discontinue the series. Ok State has everything to gain and OU everything to lose when it comes to Bedlam. It's like Penn State and Pittsburgh. As long as they don't play, people will continue to see PSU as the top school in PA. Same in Oklahoma. Oklahoma State's only chance at legitimacy in Oklahoma is to play and beat Oklahoma. If Oklahoma is willing to play Oklahoma State, Oklahoma State is completely idiotic to say no (and I'd say the same to Washington State, Oregon State, and to a lesser degree Cal with UCLA although I don't know how much people see Cal-UCLA as a rivalry as opposed to UCLA-USC and Cal-Stanford).
Of course if Oklahoma State wants to be good enough to beat Oklahoma they should first be good enough to beat South Alabama first
Bedlam is probably the most 1 sided “rivalry” in CFB. Gundy is 3-13 against OU since 2006 and is 151-56 against everyone else. He’s had a winning record in all of those years despite tha annual Bedlam Beatdown. Can you blame him for looking for an excuse to discontinue the series?
Since so much of the team is from other States, claiming superiority over OU, even if it’s possible, is not necessary for OSU.
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Is The Oklahoma State Team Quiting?
