(09-21-2023 08:35 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:16 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 02:47 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 12:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  You aren't making your point. Couldn't read the DMN article, but it was about pulling strings. You had a state representative write you a letter. You didn't get in because of the legacy of 5 generations. You got in because someone influential wrote a letter. I know plenty of people who went to UT who can't get their kids in.

I agree with the poster who said that 2.0 students are not getting into UT because their parent went there. There's no box to check on the application that makes someone an auto-admit. There isn't at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, or Rice either...

However, many of the top 6-15% students whose parents went to UT at a school like Highland Park, Memorial, Alamo Heights, etc. have the same type of connections that I had, which help get them into school. Not all, but many. If it's not legacy admissions, I guess you can call it "Good 'Ole Boy Network" admissions, which isn't very different in spirit.

After having spent 4 years as a kid in a bottom 25% high school, and now seeing my own kids spend years in a top 5% high school (both public’s), I’d say that there is a very real difference in the quality of student that each produces. Maybe the quality of instruction is comparable, though we had no AP classes and no access to them through a local college when I was in hs, but the quality of the actual graduates can vary widely from school to school in most cases. But not at highland Park, or Memorial, or Austin Westlake. The kids at the 15th or 20th percentile this year will be similar to the kids at that same rank from past years, and they’ll generally be far better-prepared for life at A&M or UT, and at least as successful as the average kid from a weaker school who had a much higher class rank.

Another thing I remember from my early years in college is how I was the only kid I knew who was an engineering major and didn’t take calculus in high school. All of my buddies, guys from other outfits, random people I knew from class, they’d ALL had calculus before. My high didn’t offer calculus, and I was out of math classes to take by my sr year. I still did fine bc math is easy for me, but it wasn’t due to the great preparation my high school provided, and most kids in my situation would have immediately dropped that class and enrolled in pre-calc.

Well my Houston HS didn't offer Calculus but other HSs in HISD did. HISD did the standard 9th-Algebra I, 10th-Geometry, 11th Algebra-2, 12th-Trig/Elementary Analysis (pre-calc). Some of the better HISD schools like Bellaire and Lamar did offer Calculus, but you had to double up on Math in 10th or 11th grade. My DFW HS used 8th-Algebra I for advanced students, 9th-Geometry, so I didn't take Calculus there or even honors math courses because I was a year behind in sequence.

I found College Calculus pretty easy and I took it in the Math Department instead of Business Calculus since I figured that would be too easy. But for other people I could see not having HS Calculus making it difficult. Because I was in a really good HS in 11th and 12th grade I felt really well prepared. Similarly my son went to a good private school and they do peer review of papers in college. He is just amazed how poorly most of those other students write. And my son was probably in the bottom half of his graduating class. But it was an outstanding school that prepared him well (even if he had a little too much fun in HS).

Things have really changed in HISD since I went to Westbury many, many, many years ago. All of my friends were in calculus senior year. We never had to double up on classes since we started that track in Jr High. My kids took calculus in HISD ten years ago. But that was at Carnegie Vanguard so I didn't know it was uncommon elsewhere.

This right here is the definition of living in an Ivory Tower. You went to Rice, and your kids went to one of the very best, if not the actual #1 school in Texas. It's not unreasonable to assume that Carnegie Vanguard students would have better Academic opportunities. Though, perhaps I know what most schools are like b/c I went to that tiny rural high school in the '80s, and I realize that Alamo Heights or Carnegie Vanguard are very much the exceptions rather than the rule.

(09-21-2023 09:09 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-21-2023 12:42 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:16 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 02:47 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I agree with the poster who said that 2.0 students are not getting into UT because their parent went there. There's no box to check on the application that makes someone an auto-admit. There isn't at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Duke, or Rice either...

However, many of the top 6-15% students whose parents went to UT at a school like Highland Park, Memorial, Alamo Heights, etc. have the same type of connections that I had, which help get them into school. Not all, but many. If it's not legacy admissions, I guess you can call it "Good 'Ole Boy Network" admissions, which isn't very different in spirit.

After having spent 4 years as a kid in a bottom 25% high school, and now seeing my own kids spend years in a top 5% high school (both public’s), I’d say that there is a very real difference in the quality of student that each produces. Maybe the quality of instruction is comparable, though we had no AP classes and no access to them through a local college when I was in hs, but the quality of the actual graduates can vary widely from school to school in most cases. But not at highland Park, or Memorial, or Austin Westlake. The kids at the 15th or 20th percentile this year will be similar to the kids at that same rank from past years, and they’ll generally be far better-prepared for life at A&M or UT, and at least as successful as the average kid from a weaker school who had a much higher class rank.

Another thing I remember from my early years in college is how I was the only kid I knew who was an engineering major and didn’t take calculus in high school. All of my buddies, guys from other outfits, random people I knew from class, they’d ALL had calculus before. My high didn’t offer calculus, and I was out of math classes to take by my sr year. I still did fine bc math is easy for me, but it wasn’t due to the great preparation my high school provided, and most kids in my situation would have immediately dropped that class and enrolled in pre-calc.

Well my Houston HS didn't offer Calculus but other HSs in HISD did. HISD did the standard 9th-Algebra I, 10th-Geometry, 11th Algebra-2, 12th-Trig/Elementary Analysis (pre-calc). Some of the better HISD schools like Bellaire and Lamar did offer Calculus, but you had to double up on Math in 10th or 11th grade. My DFW HS used 8th-Algebra I for advanced students, 9th-Geometry, so I didn't take Calculus there or even honors math courses because I was a year behind in sequence.

I found College Calculus pretty easy and I took it in the Math Department instead of Business Calculus since I figured that would be too easy. But for other people I could see not having HS Calculus making it difficult. Because I was in a really good HS in 11th and 12th grade I felt really well prepared. Similarly my son went to a good private school and they do peer review of papers in college. He is just amazed how poorly most of those other students write. And my son was probably in the bottom half of his graduating class. But it was an outstanding school that prepared him well (even if he had a little too much fun in HS).

My school did what yours did, with Trig/pre-calc in 12th, but I skipped a year in math somewhere early on. I remember that by 9th I was in with the sophomores in Geometry. It didn't so much hurt me as just leave me less well prepared than the kids from the more academically rigorous schools. Ironically, my old school is now pretty good as that area has experienced huge growth since I graduated. I should go back there for football games and talk some noise about how rough it was for us old timers back in the 80's...

Like I said, Plano was a hick town that built a new HS just for juniors and seniors to keep their football team in one school and had just moved into the highest classification (4A at that time), and Frisco was a general store at a road crossing. Both have over 200,000 now and Plano has numerous Fortune 500 offices. At a class reunion in the 90s when a classmate talked about living in Frisco, I assumed she meant San Francisco! it didn't occur to me that someone would live in Frisco, TX. Plano was the northern edge of the suburbs when I was in HS.

My family barber and family vet were in Frisco when I was growing up. There were MILES of empty fields all around the city back then in the late 70s and 80s. One little 3A school there when I was in high school. I remember thinking that Matt Lepsis wasn't that intimidating on a basketball court (though I fortunately never ran into him in football).

(09-21-2023 12:40 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-21-2023 09:09 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-21-2023 12:42 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 08:16 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  After having spent 4 years as a kid in a bottom 25% high school, and now seeing my own kids spend years in a top 5% high school (both public’s), I’d say that there is a very real difference in the quality of student that each produces. Maybe the quality of instruction is comparable, though we had no AP classes and no access to them through a local college when I was in hs, but the quality of the actual graduates can vary widely from school to school in most cases. But not at highland Park, or Memorial, or Austin Westlake. The kids at the 15th or 20th percentile this year will be similar to the kids at that same rank from past years, and they’ll generally be far better-prepared for life at A&M or UT, and at least as successful as the average kid from a weaker school who had a much higher class rank.

Another thing I remember from my early years in college is how I was the only kid I knew who was an engineering major and didn’t take calculus in high school. All of my buddies, guys from other outfits, random people I knew from class, they’d ALL had calculus before. My high didn’t offer calculus, and I was out of math classes to take by my sr year. I still did fine bc math is easy for me, but it wasn’t due to the great preparation my high school provided, and most kids in my situation would have immediately dropped that class and enrolled in pre-calc.

Well my Houston HS didn't offer Calculus but other HSs in HISD did. HISD did the standard 9th-Algebra I, 10th-Geometry, 11th Algebra-2, 12th-Trig/Elementary Analysis (pre-calc). Some of the better HISD schools like Bellaire and Lamar did offer Calculus, but you had to double up on Math in 10th or 11th grade. My DFW HS used 8th-Algebra I for advanced students, 9th-Geometry, so I didn't take Calculus there or even honors math courses because I was a year behind in sequence.

I found College Calculus pretty easy and I took it in the Math Department instead of Business Calculus since I figured that would be too easy. But for other people I could see not having HS Calculus making it difficult. Because I was in a really good HS in 11th and 12th grade I felt really well prepared. Similarly my son went to a good private school and they do peer review of papers in college. He is just amazed how poorly most of those other students write. And my son was probably in the bottom half of his graduating class. But it was an outstanding school that prepared him well (even if he had a little too much fun in HS).

My school did what yours did, with Trig/pre-calc in 12th, but I skipped a year in math somewhere early on. I remember that by 9th I was in with the sophomores in Geometry. It didn't so much hurt me as just leave me less well prepared than the kids from the more academically rigorous schools. Ironically, my old school is now pretty good as that area has experienced huge growth since I graduated. I should go back there for football games and talk some noise about how rough it was for us old timers back in the 80's...

Like I said, Plano was a hick town that built a new HS just for juniors and seniors to keep their football team in one school and had just moved into the highest classification (4A at that time), and Frisco was a general store at a road crossing. Both have over 200,000 now and Plano has numerous Fortune 500 offices. At a class reunion in the 90s when a classmate talked about living in Frisco, I assumed she meant San Francisco! it didn't occur to me that someone would live in Frisco, TX. Plano was the northern edge of the suburbs when I was in HS.

My family barber and family vet were in Frisco when I was growing up. There were MILES of empty fields all around the city back then in the late 70s and 80s. One little 3A school there when I was in high school. I remember thinking that Matt Lepsis wasn't that intimidating on a basketball court (though I fortunately never ran into him in football).

There was about 4 miles of nothing along Coit Road (except for A&M's Dallas research station) south of the Plano Hospital. 20 years later when my sister lived in Plano it was miles of dark red brick doctor's boxes. One of the nice features of not having heavy zoning-you don't have style police telling you what every house must look like. Not that I don't like dark red brick doctor's boxes, but when they all look the same....

(09-18-2023 09:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  USF is #89 ..... I believe that is our highest ranking ever. Clearly inside the top 100.

Steve you feel smarter?

I think by 2026 an invite goes out to USF to either the ACC or Big12

(09-21-2023 05:59 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(09-18-2023 09:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  USF is #89 ..... I believe that is our highest ranking ever. Clearly inside the top 100.

Steve you feel smarter?

I think by 2026 an invite goes out to USF to either the ACC or Big12

I don't think that there is much chance that the Big 12 is inviting anybody until one of 2 things happens:

1. They're negotiating their new deal in the leadup to 2031

and/or

2. Their media partners offer them money for additional schools, and the Big 12 Presidents think that the additional school(s) will be additive long term.

2026 precludes them from looking at #1. Common sense and the fact that nobody has even given USF a casual examination despite their clear availability for decades precludes #2.

So then, our only realistic option is the ACC. They also could have USF anytime they want, so something major would have to change in the ACC for them to add USF by 2026. Like, I dunno, a few schools leaving to join the SEC, perhaps? I've been quite bearish on that happening for a while now, though it's certainly possible. However, even then, if the ACC only lost, say, Clemson and FSU, would they feel an urgent need to grab USF? I think the answer to that is a resounding NO. USF is probably the ACC's #1 backfill candidate, but they'd need to lose more than 2 schools to start thinking about going there.

In my opinion, it’s unfortunate that almost all rankings are moving away from measuring what places are the hardest to get into and/or are the most prestigious and are now trying to measure which schools do better than expected based on their incoming student demographics. That’s certainly useful too but hopefully some organization steps into the void and creates a ranking system that goes back to measuring how prestigious a school is.

(09-22-2023 08:54 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  In my opinion, it’s unfortunate that almost all rankings are moving away from measuring what places are the hardest to get into and/or are the most prestigious and are now trying to measure which schools do better than expected based on their incoming student demographics. That’s certainly useful too but hopefully some organization steps into the void and creates a ranking system that goes back to measuring how prestigious a school is.

Look at ARWU, AAU (yes or no) and average SAT/ACT scores. If they're elite in one of those then it's probably a good school. If they're AAU and elite in the other 2 then you've got a winner. If they're very high in ARWU and they're AAU, then avg SAT/ACT can be a nice tiebreaker. Michigan has a 1435, Cal has a 1415, and Texas has a 1355 avg SAT? They're all AAU and all public Ivies ofc. Cal is 4 in ARWU, Michigan 18, Texas 25? Ok, I'd then rank them Cal #1, Michigan #2, Texas #3, though I'd also consider where you live and your intended major. If you live in California, Michigan or Texas, then just go to your State Flagship of course. Unless you can get into an Ivy or another T1, and/or money is no object.

(09-22-2023 08:54 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  In my opinion, it’s unfortunate that almost all rankings are moving away from measuring what places are the hardest to get into and/or are the most prestigious and are now trying to measure which schools do better than expected based on their incoming student demographics. That’s certainly useful too but hopefully some organization steps into the void and creates a ranking system that goes back to measuring how prestigious a school is.

Well how hard it is to get into is kind of a basic supply/demand valuation.

If its easy to get into, then students aren't valuing it as much.

Of course you have the market distortions like automatic admissions or schools that are designed to admit nearly everyone. Schools in smaller states like Nebraska, where you have few options, are often more open, but Nebraska was AAU until recently.

But in private schools, the only real distortion is whether they take the common app, making it easy to apply.