(05-23-2023 06:57 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The Big 12 should go ahead and invite Colorado, Arizona, and Arizona St. Utah can then weigh their options and decide where they want to go. If they Utes want to hang on to the PAC 7, then the Big 12 can add USF. This actually leads to nice scheduling pods:

Colorado, BYU, Arizona, Arizona St
TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor, Houston
Okla St, Kansas, K St, Iowa St
Cincy, WVU, USF, UCF

Yeah… they’d weigh their options for about 24 hours once Petitti never returns their call. With the 4C, you do something like:

West: BYU Utes ASU/AU
North: CU ISU KSU KU
SW: OkieSt Baylor TCU TTech
East: Houston UC WVU UCF

It’s possible to consider CU in the Texas division, but that’s going all in on Prime and a slap in the face to the folks in Stillwater.

I think Memphis should really be there but no room. The east is where their rivals are, besides UAB… the ACC should consider WVU and UConn. One football brand with one BBall brand. Academics cancels out more or less.

If Colorado is out the door, I don't see Arizona hanging back. If Colorado and Arizona are out the door, I don't see ASU hanging back. And if Colorado, Arizona and ASU are all out the door, I don't see Utah hanging back.

At that point the dominos MIGHT stop falling temporarily, if the Big 10 isn't yet prepared to make its next move, and Washington and Oregon choose to stay put for another year or two rather than join the Big 12 and sign a GOR. In that "train wreck in slow motion" scenario the remaining Pac members would have to respond by inviting two to four MWC schools. Subsequently when Washington and Oregon leave the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools, and finally if and when when Stanford and Cal are rescued the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools.

That would be an ugly outcome for the MWC, which would be torn apart in stages, and ultimately find itself reduced to four to six widely scattered members with limited if any attractiveness to the AAC and very limited rebuilding prospects. For Hawaii fans this is by far the most worrisome potential scenario.

(05-23-2023 07:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  If Colorado is out the door, I don't see Arizona hanging back. If Colorado and Arizona are out the door, I don't see ASU hanging back. And if Colorado, Arizona and ASU are all out the door, I don't see Utah hanging back.

At that point the dominos MIGHT stop falling temporarily, if the Big 10 isn't yet prepared to make its next move, and Washington and Oregon choose to stay put for another year or two rather than join the Big 12 and sign a GOR. In that "train wreck in slow motion" scenario the remaining Pac members would have to respond by inviting two to four MWC schools. Subsequently when Washington and Oregon leave the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools, and finally if and when when Stanford and Cal are rescued the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools.

That would be an ugly outcome for the MWC, which would be torn apart in stages, and ultimately find itself reduced to four to six widely scattered members with limited if any attractiveness to the AAC and very limited rebuilding prospects. For Hawaii fans this is by far the most worrisome potential scenario.

Makes me think, would UO and UW hang back just to allow the conference to rebuild itself by slowly consuming the MWC? That reminds me of one of those nature shows you see in the African savanna. What a terrible outcome that would be.

I don’t see it though. Stanford and Cal, UO and UW, would probably go in as football members until they build up to full shares in the next B1G TV deal. They’d work SOMETHING out… you’d think. Maybe they all go Indy for one or two years and sign game by game contracts with TV/stream networks while they negotiate with the B1G.

(05-23-2023 07:49 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 07:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  If Colorado is out the door, I don't see Arizona hanging back. If Colorado and Arizona are out the door, I don't see ASU hanging back. And if Colorado, Arizona and ASU are all out the door, I don't see Utah hanging back.

At that point the dominos MIGHT stop falling temporarily, if the Big 10 isn't yet prepared to make its next move, and Washington and Oregon choose to stay put for another year or two rather than join the Big 12 and sign a GOR. In that "train wreck in slow motion" scenario the remaining Pac members would have to respond by inviting two to four MWC schools. Subsequently when Washington and Oregon leave the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools, and finally if and when when Stanford and Cal are rescued the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools.

That would be an ugly outcome for the MWC, which would be torn apart in stages, and ultimately find itself reduced to four to six widely scattered members with limited if any attractiveness to the AAC and very limited rebuilding prospects. For Hawaii fans this is by far the most worrisome potential scenario.

Makes me think, would UO and UW hang back just to allow the conference to rebuild itself by slowly consuming the MWC? That reminds me of one of those nature shows you see in the African savanna. What a terrible outcome that would be.

I don’t see it though. Stanford and Cal, UO and UW, would probably go in as football members until they build up to full shares in the next B1G TV deal. They’d work SOMETHING out… you’d think. Maybe they all go Indy for one or two years and sign game by game contracts with TV/stream networks while they negotiate with the B1G.

I could see them adding maybe 2 more members in that scenario.

Oregon State and Washington State aren't going anywhere. Stanford and Cal likely aren't going anywhere. Add a couple of Western schools and stick at 8 for a little while.

I wonder if Montana and Idaho are available.

Although I think it's also possible Oregon and Washington could just go independent. Stick it out for a few years until something better comes along, I could see that.

I do want to say in general that I don't get the idea of doubting this report simply because it comes from a "Big 12 source." For one, Tramel is a serious reporter, I don't see why he would be repeating lies. Second, just because the Big 12 has a vested interest in a certain outcome doesn't mean it isn't true.

People are getting reactionary over the idea that the 4 Corners haven't moved to the Big 12 in recent months so they're assuming it's BS. Why? It hasn't even been a year since USC and UCLA announced they were leaving. Just because things don't happen at the speed of message board theorizing doesn't mean there's nothing to it.

If the PAC loses four schools to the B12 one has to think that others will follow. Oregon State and Washington State would be smart to beg for admittance into the B12 at that point.

Gotta give credit where credit is due: the B12 has not only survived the loss of OU and UT… they are thriving.

(05-23-2023 08:11 PM)Ned Low Wrote:  If the PAC loses four schools to the B12 one has to think that others will follow. Oregon State and Washington State would be smart to beg for admittance into the B12 at that point.

Gotta give credit where credit is due: the B12 has not only survived the loss of OU and UT… they are thriving.

They replaced those two huge brands with g5 schools. They havent even added the 4c and you and others are already claiming victory!

Slow down, sir.

(05-23-2023 07:49 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 07:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  If Colorado is out the door, I don't see Arizona hanging back. If Colorado and Arizona are out the door, I don't see ASU hanging back. And if Colorado, Arizona and ASU are all out the door, I don't see Utah hanging back.

At that point the dominos MIGHT stop falling temporarily, if the Big 10 isn't yet prepared to make its next move, and Washington and Oregon choose to stay put for another year or two rather than join the Big 12 and sign a GOR. In that "train wreck in slow motion" scenario the remaining Pac members would have to respond by inviting two to four MWC schools. Subsequently when Washington and Oregon leave the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools, and finally if and when when Stanford and Cal are rescued the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools.

That would be an ugly outcome for the MWC, which would be torn apart in stages, and ultimately find itself reduced to four to six widely scattered members with limited if any attractiveness to the AAC and very limited rebuilding prospects. For Hawaii fans this is by far the most worrisome potential scenario.

Makes me think, would UO and UW hang back just to allow the conference to rebuild itself by slowly consuming the MWC? That reminds me of one of those nature shows you see in the African savanna. What a terrible outcome that would be.

I don’t see it though. Stanford and Cal, UO and UW, would probably go in as football members until they build up to full shares in the next B1G TV deal. They’d work SOMETHING out… you’d think. Maybe they all go Indy for one or two years and sign game by game contracts with TV/stream networks while they negotiate with the B1G.

Here's an interesting thought. 4C to Big 12. UO and UW join the B1G with USC and UCLA. The remaining 4 beg the ACC to join them if the B1G stops with the 4. With 3 groups of 4 teams, maybe they agree to maintain playing each other with 2 crossover games to play the other 8 teams once every 4 years (assuming all leagues stay at or go to 9 conference games). Though maybe the original 8 PAC schools opt to maintain playing a game or 2 with each other instead with their history and leave out the 4C schools (might give ESPN some PAC after dark games).

(05-23-2023 05:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I believe Tramel is finally the first established credible reporter to report this, so buckle your seat belt. This ain't the Monty Show folks!

Didn't Ourand or Marchand tell us to "Watch Colorado" a month ago.

(05-23-2023 08:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I could see them adding maybe 2 more members in that scenario.

Oregon State and Washington State aren't going anywhere. Stanford and Cal likely aren't going anywhere. Add a couple of Western schools and stick at 8 for a little while.

I wonder if Montana and Idaho are available.

Although I think it's also possible Oregon and Washington could just go independent. Stick it out for a few years until something better comes along, I could see that.

I do want to say in general that I don't get the idea of doubting this report simply because it comes from a "Big 12 source." For one, Tramel is a serious reporter, I don't see why he would be repeating lies. Second, just because the Big 12 has a vested interest in a certain outcome doesn't mean it isn't true.

People are getting reactionary over the idea that the 4 Corners haven't moved to the Big 12 in recent months so they're assuming it's BS. Why? It hasn't even been a year since USC and UCLA announced they were leaving. Just because things don't happen at the speed of message board theorizing doesn't mean there's nothing to it.

I think ESPN can pick up some 10:30 or 11pm games if remaining 6 go Indy. They got to get a scheduling agreement with the MWC first if not a full blown raid. Even the Big 12 OOC. That’s only five games among them. They all have to find 7 other opponents or play their rival 2x in the same year. And where does BBall temporarily go?

Another thing to explore is temporary Big 12 membership with an opt out after three years while the B1G sorts itself out.

(05-23-2023 08:25 PM)Chicklets Wrote:  Didn't Ourand or Marchand tell us to "Watch Colorado" a month ago.

I dunno about them, but many of the reasons I've suggested that Colorado is a good move for the Big10, make sense in spades for the Big12.

And for Colorado, whether they wait in the PAC, or in the Big12, for a Big10 invite, is kinda immaterial...

(05-23-2023 05:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I believe Tramel is finally the first established credible reporter to report this, so buckle your seat belt. This ain't the Monty Show folks!

Berry Tramel is indeed very well sourced. It certainly makes sense that, as a former member of the Big 12, CU would lead the way for Pac-12 schools considering a move to the Big 12. I would be surprised if Arizona doesn't soon follow.

(05-23-2023 06:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I don't belive anything from any sources from the Big 12 worth a grain of salt.

What if Big 12 source(s) said Boise to be invited?

(05-23-2023 08:32 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 08:25 PM)Chicklets Wrote:  Didn't Ourand or Marchand tell us to "Watch Colorado" a month ago.

I dunno about them, but many of the reasons I've suggested that Colorado is a good move for the Big10, make sense in spades for the Big12.

And for Colorado, whether they wait in the PAC, or in the Big12, for a Big10 invite, is kinda immaterial...

Im sure there wont be exit fees and the Big 12 will just let them walk if they feel like it.

(05-23-2023 08:28 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 08:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I could see them adding maybe 2 more members in that scenario.

Oregon State and Washington State aren't going anywhere. Stanford and Cal likely aren't going anywhere. Add a couple of Western schools and stick at 8 for a little while.

I wonder if Montana and Idaho are available.

Although I think it's also possible Oregon and Washington could just go independent. Stick it out for a few years until something better comes along, I could see that.

I do want to say in general that I don't get the idea of doubting this report simply because it comes from a "Big 12 source." For one, Tramel is a serious reporter, I don't see why he would be repeating lies. Second, just because the Big 12 has a vested interest in a certain outcome doesn't mean it isn't true.

People are getting reactionary over the idea that the 4 Corners haven't moved to the Big 12 in recent months so they're assuming it's BS. Why? It hasn't even been a year since USC and UCLA announced they were leaving. Just because things don't happen at the speed of message board theorizing doesn't mean there's nothing to it.

I think ESPN can pick up some 10:30 or 11pm games if remaining 6 go Indy. They got to get a scheduling agreement with the MWC first if not a full blown raid. Even the Big 12 OOC. That’s only five games among them. They all have to find 7 other opponents or play their rival 2x in the same year. And where does BBall temporarily go?

Another thing to explore is temporary Big 12 membership with an opt out after three years while the B1G sorts itself out.

For non-football, it's probably better to keep the PAC around until the better all sports option comes around. If they had an 8 school league then they can play 7 conference games and have plenty of room for other match-ups across the country...or to host a few extra G5s at home.

Let's say San Diego State doesn't go for the Big 12. Just add SDSU and Fresno State or maybe UNLV and keep everything on the West Coast.

I would say a full scale raid of the Mountain West would be best, but there's no guarantee for those schools that the PAC will be around. If the Big Ten ever calls Oregon and Washington's number then the whole thing comes down either way.

(05-23-2023 08:17 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  Here's an interesting thought. 4C to Big 12. UO and UW join the B1G with USC and UCLA. The remaining 4 beg the ACC to join them if the B1G stops with the 4. With 3 groups of 4 teams, maybe they agree to maintain playing each other with 2 crossover games to play the other 8 teams once every 4 years (assuming all leagues stay at or go to 9 conference games). Though maybe the original 8 PAC schools opt to maintain playing a game or 2 with each other instead with their history and leave out the 4C schools (might give ESPN some PAC after dark games).

ACC is not an option. It’s not even the academic powerhouse it once was, even with the Stanford Cal branding. And FO would be the only option here.

I think they go independent and join the Big West with ESPN paying them a stipend for the fourth window.

Wazzou and OreSt have to find a conference immediately. They can’t wait around any longer.

Best case scenario, the ACC adds a 15th team for two rolling OOC games versus Stanford/Cal when ND is playing another ACC member. That would cover the Bay teams for five weekends. Still quite a few games to find to round out an independence schedule.

(05-23-2023 08:42 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I would say a full scale raid of the Mountain West would be best, but there's no guarantee for those schools that the PAC will be around. If the Big Ten ever calls Oregon and Washington's number then the whole thing comes down either way.

The problem is there is no way to value this conference without a GoR… the departing schools would be taking a flyer on a 4-5 year rental tops. So what’s the value there? What’s the leverage?

(05-23-2023 08:40 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 08:32 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 08:25 PM)Chicklets Wrote:  Didn't Ourand or Marchand tell us to "Watch Colorado" a month ago.

I dunno about them, but many of the reasons I've suggested that Colorado is a good move for the Big10, make sense in spades for the Big12.

And for Colorado, whether they wait in the PAC, or in the Big12, for a Big10 invite, is kinda immaterial...

Im sure there wont be exit fees and the Big 12 will just let them walk if they feel like it.

These days, exit fees are the price of doing business...

(05-23-2023 08:48 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 08:40 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 08:32 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(05-23-2023 08:25 PM)Chicklets Wrote:  Didn't Ourand or Marchand tell us to "Watch Colorado" a month ago.

I dunno about them, but many of the reasons I've suggested that Colorado is a good move for the Big10, make sense in spades for the Big12.

And for Colorado, whether they wait in the PAC, or in the Big12, for a Big10 invite, is kinda immaterial...

Im sure there wont be exit fees and the Big 12 will just let them walk if they feel like it.

These days, exit fees are the price of doing business...

Should have probably posted this too, the B1G doesnt want or need Colorado. Theres a few other schools they would take before them.

(05-23-2023 07:42 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  If Colorado is out the door, I don't see Arizona hanging back. If Colorado and Arizona are out the door, I don't see ASU hanging back. And if Colorado, Arizona and ASU are all out the door, I don't see Utah hanging back.

At that point the dominos MIGHT stop falling temporarily, if the Big 10 isn't yet prepared to make its next move, and Washington and Oregon choose to stay put for another year or two rather than join the Big 12 and sign a GOR. In that "train wreck in slow motion" scenario the remaining Pac members would have to respond by inviting two to four MWC schools. Subsequently when Washington and Oregon leave the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools, and finally if and when when Stanford and Cal are rescued the Pac would have to add two more MWC schools.

That would be an ugly outcome for the MWC, which would be torn apart in stages, and ultimately find itself reduced to four to six widely scattered members with limited if any attractiveness to the AAC and very limited rebuilding prospects. For Hawaii fans this is by far the most worrisome potential scenario.

If the corner 4 leave, my bet is the Pac-12 adds SDSU, SMU, Rice, and Colorado State. Every one else stays put.

Well, the last timeline we heard was late spring to early summer for a P12 media rights deal. That means mid to late June would fall on the back end of that range. If that gets pushed back to late summer/early fall then smoke may start to turn to fire.