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(02-08-2023 11:33 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(02-08-2023 10:12 AM)Lush Wrote:  i seem to recall someone living in north carolina who was beyond thrilled with the wes miller hire; even prior to the hire. take it easy 92

Wes did some great things at UNCG during his tenure and he's well respected among many UNC fans down here. That said, I've given honest criticisms and used game results and stats to back up what I'm saying so it isn't just based on emotions. One guy on this board jumps on me as soon as I say anything that isn't all John Denver's "Sunshine on My Shoulders" about Wes and this team. I'm apparently a Xavier fan or should root for somebody else because I have a different opinion. What does that sound like - cancel culture!!!

LMFAO. You are so fragile that someone disagreeing with you and refuting things you say is "cancel culture" now.

You're allowed to have an opinion. I'm allowed to criticize it. That isn't "cancel culture". It's quite literally the opposite. You shouldn't need a safe space for your opinions.

(02-08-2023 11:33 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  I've been following this basketball program since my time as a UC student and alum over 30 years ago. I care a great deal about it and want it to be the best. We are a shell of our former program. How do I know? It is now acceptable by some of the fans to settle for 4th or 5th place in a weak basketball league. It is now acceptable to make excuses for every loss. That's fine. Have at it. I need to step back and do other things with my valuable time. This shiit ain't worth it any longer.

This is such a nonsense characterization of what people are saying. When Mick was winning a combined 24 games his first two seasons it didn't mean that kind of result was "acceptable". It meant reasonable people understood rebuilds don't always happen over night. That maybe a discerning person might look beyond the immediate results and look for progress. The progress from year 1 to 2 under Mick was minimal, but we saw a reasonable jump in year 3, another jump (though a disappointing one) in year 4...then a breakthrough in year 5.

We're not even two years into the rebuild. We've jumped from 116 kenpom to 61 kenpom from last year to this year. Some people just think panic this early when there is very clear evidence of real progress is completely idiotic.

But yes...you can have you're opinion. I'm allowed to label it for what it is.

(02-08-2023 11:33 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(02-08-2023 10:12 AM)Lush Wrote:  i seem to recall someone living in north carolina who was beyond thrilled with the wes miller hire; even prior to the hire. take it easy 92

Wes did some great things at UNCG during his tenure and he's well respected among many UNC fans down here. That said, I've given honest criticisms and used game results and stats to back up what I'm saying so it isn't just based on emotions. One guy on this board jumps on me as soon as I say anything that isn't all John Denver's "Sunshine on My Shoulders" about Wes and this team. I'm apparently a Xavier fan or should root for somebody else because I have a different opinion. What does that sound like - cancel culture!!! I've been following this basketball program since my time as a UC student and alum over 30 years ago. I care a great deal about it and want it to be the best. We are a shell of our former program. How do I know? It is now acceptable by some of the fans to settle for 4th or 5th place in a weak basketball league. It is now acceptable to make excuses for every loss. That's fine. Have at it. I need to step back and do other things with my valuable time. This shiit ain't worth it any longer.

I just think your frustration is misdirected. It's not Wes's fault that the admin let a good coach leave and hired a ******* as his replacement. He's cleaning up that mess. You can point to the guys at Kansas St. or Iowa St. and say the rebuild should be quicker, but I don't know how you can't see the progress this team is making. If watching a program rebuild doesn't interest you, I get it. But to come in and vomit up a bunch witless takes about bad coaching after an OT loss on the road to a solid team when one of UC's best players got injured, well you deserve some push back.

(02-08-2023 11:48 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-08-2023 11:33 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(02-08-2023 10:12 AM)Lush Wrote:  i seem to recall someone living in north carolina who was beyond thrilled with the wes miller hire; even prior to the hire. take it easy 92

Wes did some great things at UNCG during his tenure and he's well respected among many UNC fans down here. That said, I've given honest criticisms and used game results and stats to back up what I'm saying so it isn't just based on emotions. One guy on this board jumps on me as soon as I say anything that isn't all John Denver's "Sunshine on My Shoulders" about Wes and this team. I'm apparently a Xavier fan or should root for somebody else because I have a different opinion. What does that sound like - cancel culture!!!

LMFAO. You are so fragile that someone disagreeing with you and refuting things you say is "cancel culture" now.

You're allowed to have an opinion. I'm allowed to criticize it. That isn't "cancel culture". It's quite literally the opposite. You shouldn't need a safe space for your opinions.

(02-08-2023 11:33 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  I've been following this basketball program since my time as a UC student and alum over 30 years ago. I care a great deal about it and want it to be the best. We are a shell of our former program. How do I know? It is now acceptable by some of the fans to settle for 4th or 5th place in a weak basketball league. It is now acceptable to make excuses for every loss. That's fine. Have at it. I need to step back and do other things with my valuable time. This shiit ain't worth it any longer.

This is such a nonsense characterization of what people are saying. When Mick was winning a combined 24 games his first two seasons it didn't mean that kind of result was "acceptable". It meant reasonable people understood rebuilds don't always happen over night. That maybe a discerning person might look beyond the immediate results and look for progress. The progress from year 1 to 2 under Mick was minimal, but we saw a reasonable jump in year 3, another jump (though a disappointing one) in year 4...then a breakthrough in year 5.

We're not even two years into the rebuild. We've jumped from 116 kenpom to 61 kenpom from last year to this year. Some people just think panic this early when there is very clear evidence of real progress is completely idiotic.

But yes...you can have you're opinion. I'm allowed to label it for what it is.

This is sad and awful. It's like having Sponge Bob and Patrick argue.

92's dog got into his good bourbon

i had realistic expectations for this team. i figured nit. i reserve my complaining for year two in the twelve. if the twelve can sustain this momentum year in as the premier league, twelve money, we should succeed by default. bold predictions: bill self leaves for 'tucky while calimari goes to austin. kansas in turn gets tony bennett... sean miller follows in pete gillen's footsteps

Wes isn't the guy. Fire this loser and start over in the Big12.

(02-08-2023 11:56 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(02-08-2023 11:33 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(02-08-2023 10:12 AM)Lush Wrote:  i seem to recall someone living in north carolina who was beyond thrilled with the wes miller hire; even prior to the hire. take it easy 92

Wes did some great things at UNCG during his tenure and he's well respected among many UNC fans down here. That said, I've given honest criticisms and used game results and stats to back up what I'm saying so it isn't just based on emotions. One guy on this board jumps on me as soon as I say anything that isn't all John Denver's "Sunshine on My Shoulders" about Wes and this team. I'm apparently a Xavier fan or should root for somebody else because I have a different opinion. What does that sound like - cancel culture!!! I've been following this basketball program since my time as a UC student and alum over 30 years ago. I care a great deal about it and want it to be the best. We are a shell of our former program. How do I know? It is now acceptable by some of the fans to settle for 4th or 5th place in a weak basketball league. It is now acceptable to make excuses for every loss. That's fine. Have at it. I need to step back and do other things with my valuable time. This shiit ain't worth it any longer.

I just think your frustration is misdirected. It's not Wes's fault that the admin let a good coach leave and hired a ******* as his replacement. He's cleaning up that mess. You can point to the guys at Kansas St. or Iowa St. and say the rebuild should be quicker, but I don't know how you can't see the progress this team is making. If watching a program rebuild doesn't interest you, I get it. But to come in and vomit up a bunch witless takes about bad coaching after an OT loss on the road to a solid team when one of UC's best players got injured, well you deserve some push back.

I think it can be both. The team has showed good improvement although still doesn't have any good wins. Last night's loss was squarely on Wes. D getting shredded in second half with mostly layups with no adjustments...Zone? 7 point lead with 230 left and we shoot early in clock and last five shots 3 pt misses. Take some time, drive to the hoop and score or get to the foul line. A good coach would have found a way to win last night.

One ray of sunshine. I had some Xavier fans complaining to me today. Said our loss to Tulane cost them a Quadrant 1 win. So there is always that.

If we are allowed to talk about Xavier, they lost their 2nd leading scorer and leading rebounder and were able to win 2 straight. One against a Top 20 team.

However, I will admit, the situations are different. Both those games were at home. It's easier to be able to game plan when you know a guy is going to be out rather than have your guy go down in the middle of the game on the road.

I'm not saying UC should won that game. But I am curious to see what kind of adjustments Wes will make going forward to compensate the loss of Vik, like S. Miller had to compensate for the loss of Freemantle. Granted Wes is limited on personnel options, but I'm not sure shooting 48 3-pt shots a game is going to be the answer either.

Honest question:

What has Wes shown thus far to make you feel he's the guy that will lead UC to the promised land?

His current roster has four 4-star kids and roughly 10 players on the roster that are 4th and 5th year guys. And he's managed a 16-9 record with zero good wins. We can talk about improvements in individual players but that hasn't led to wins.

Next year's recruiting class gives me some hope and if he can keep signing guys like that he'll be successful. But one year of good recruiting is not yet a trend. Someone give me a reason to have hope!

(02-09-2023 08:17 AM)Cat-Man Wrote:  If we are allowed to talk about Xavier, they lost their 2nd leading scorer and leading rebounder and were able to win 2 straight. One against a Top 20 team.

However, I will admit, the situations are different. Both those games were at home. It's easier to be able to game plan when you know a guy is going to be out rather than have your guy go down in the middle of the game on the road.

I'm not saying UC should won that game. But I am curious to see what kind of adjustments Wes will make going forward to compensate the loss of Vik, like S. Miller had to compensate for the loss of Freemantle. Granted Wes is limited on personnel options, but I'm) not sure shooting 48 3-pt shots a game is going to be the answer either.

I get what you're saying but:
1. Xavier has a better roster. They just do. Their key guys are basically all seniors or super seniors and they are all good.
2. Freemantle is somewhere between the 4th and 6th best player on Xavier's team.
3. I actually think Freemantle's replacement is a better player than Freemantle. He's a much better defender AND he's been a more efficient offensive player. You can quibble with that, but even if you disagree the dropoff isn't much. The big issue losing Freemantle causes for Xavier is eating into their already limited depth (they are very depended on their top 6).
4. Vik is UC's best offensive player (you can debate this, as nolley is right there), best defensive player (this is undeniable) and best rebounder (this is undeniable). It's a much bigger loss.

So I think the Xavier comp is a pretty bad one, not one we should be looking to as a comparison.

However, you're larger point is a good one. How Wes adjusts is going to be really interesting given his very limited options. Tchewa for USF is 7 foot, 280 and an absolute load on the block. He is a tough matchup even with Vik. It will be interesting to see how we play him. If we overhelp, Tyler Harris has been a Bearcat killer since his time at Memphis. Wes has very limited options when it comes to bigs. I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out the best way for UC to defend without Vik (much less get non-jump shot baskets).

I know there's been the usual speculation online about the type and severity of Vik's injury, but has UC shared any updates on his playing status yet? My hope is that it's not season ending, but less than a month remains and a 4-6 week recovery would be "season ending".

He's the team MVP at this point given what bearcatmark has shared and his absence will likely impact every remaining game.

As I recall, Tolentino has already burned his redshirt. Is he absolutely, positively not an option for limited minutes in the rotation? I know many "bigs" who needed an extra year or two to develop sufficient strength and footwork to compete. If that's the case, Wes desperately needs frontline help in this incoming class.

If scary USF is now Godzirra in Tokyo, just hang it up for the year.

(02-09-2023 09:25 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  If scary USF is now Godzirra in Tokyo, just hang it up for the year.

Who said that?

Talking about specific matchups in an upcoming game and concerns that not having Vik create. Even decidedly mediocre teams can have good players. Harris is a very good player. Tchewa is a really tough matchup on the block for most teams...he's just so big and physical.

When they played a very close game at Houston Harris had 31 and Tchewa drew 10 shooting fouls. I like to discuss matchups in games. That doesn't make them "Godzirra in Tokyo."

Vik or no Vik, USF sucks.

(02-09-2023 09:36 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Vik or no Vik, USF sucks.

I find that to be a boring way to discuss basketball. I've watched enough USF to know the have a couple of strengths.

"USF sucks" offers no insight. I like discussing basketball. What teams might do. What the potential issues can be.

You can believe "USF sucks", but Tyler Harris is still capable of going for 28 points on 54% shooting (as he did last night against Memphis). And Tchewa is still capable of grabbing 10+ rebounds and drawing 10 fouls (as he did last night).

Teams like USF can hang with you if you don't play your best. Looking forward to seeing how the Bearcats play on Saturday night.

(02-09-2023 08:44 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Honest question:

What has Wes shown thus far to make you feel he's the guy that will lead UC to the promised land?

His current roster has four 4-star kids and roughly 10 players on the roster that are 4th and 5th year guys. And he's managed a 16-9 record with zero good wins. We can talk about improvements in individual players but that hasn't led to wins.

Next year's recruiting class gives me some hope and if he can keep signing guys like that he'll be successful. But one year of good recruiting is not yet a trend. Someone give me a reason to have hope!

I see it like this. Let him recruit like hell and support him with good development coaches on the bench.

Face of Team/Reputation...A
Recruiter...B
Developer...C
In Game Coach...D

(02-09-2023 08:57 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  I know there's been the usual speculation online about the type and severity of Vik's injury, but has UC shared any updates on his playing status yet? My hope is that it's not season ending, but less than a month remains and a 4-6 week recovery would be "season ending".

He's the team MVP at this point given what bearcatmark has shared and his absence will likely impact every remaining game.

As I recall, Tolentino has already burned his redshirt. Is he absolutely, positively not an option for limited minutes in the rotation? I know many "bigs" who needed an extra year or two to develop sufficient strength and footwork to compete. If that's the case, Wes desperately needs frontline help in this incoming class.

I think he'd still be eligible for a medical redshirt if the team can provide the right documentation about an injury.

You can play games during the first half of the season and still get a medical redshirt to my knowledge.

(02-09-2023 09:42 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-09-2023 09:36 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Vik or no Vik, USF sucks.

I find that to be a boring way to discuss basketball. I've watched enough USF to know the have a couple of strengths.

"USF sucks" offers no insight. I like discussing basketball. What teams might do. What the potential issues can be.

You can believe "USF sucks", but Tyler Harris is still capable of going for 28 points on 54% shooting (as he did last night against Memphis). And Tchewa is still capable of grabbing 10+ rebounds and drawing 10 fouls (as he did last night).

Teams like USF can hang with you if you don't play your best. Looking forward to seeing how the Bearcats play on Saturday night.

Of course. No fun without an hour of screen time reviewing 38 different metrics to confirm that (reviews notes)...USF sucks.

(02-09-2023 10:03 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(02-09-2023 08:44 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Honest question:

What has Wes shown thus far to make you feel he's the guy that will lead UC to the promised land?

His current roster has four 4-star kids and roughly 10 players on the roster that are 4th and 5th year guys. And he's managed a 16-9 record with zero good wins. We can talk about improvements in individual players but that hasn't led to wins.

Next year's recruiting class gives me some hope and if he can keep signing guys like that he'll be successful. But one year of good recruiting is not yet a trend. Someone give me a reason to have hope!

I see it like this. Let him recruit like hell and support him with good development coaches on the bench.

Face of Team/Reputation...A
Recruiter...B
Developer...C
In Game Coach...D

Disagree that he's a bad in game coach. This just seems like you saw them lose and then point at the coach.

Watch how they adjust during games to what's working and what's not. He'll have DDJ break guys down when that's effective, he'll focus on getting Vik in that pick and roll, he's started running Nolley around screens to get him the ball closer to the basket instead of out at the 3 point line, he's getting Davenport much more stable looks. He scrapped that garbage press, he's got guys rebounding who never had before, the ball really moves on offense, players are improving.

Losing sucks, and the buck stops at Wes, and he gets paid a ton to make this program successful, but there's no doubt in my mind that this team has gotten a whole lot better from last season to this and throughout this season.