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(02-03-2023 04:41 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 02:03 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-02-2023 09:31 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  People don't remember what rebuilds were like when losing 10 straight games in conference was the norm. Mick was obviously put into a bigger hole than Wes, but man we lost to BRADLEY in the 3rd season of Mick's rebuild. I mean it took years before we even had NIT caliber players.

Then one year we made the tournament and didn't look back. I wasn't sold on Mick until that happened.

Wes is trending in the right direction and feels close to getting us where we need to be. This feels like a bubble team that couldn't get big wins. Happens.

Cronin started basically from zero and left it in good shape.

Brannen regressed it to mediocre.

So far it hasn't seem like it's improved much under Miller and that's what's got people freaking out.

I'm going to disagree he left it in good shape. His last few recruiting classes weren't very good:

2016: Jarron and Nysier were good, but he left a scholly on the table.
2017: Keith Williams (ok, good), but then Trevor Moore, Mamoudou Diarra and Eliel Nsoseme.
2018: Prince Gillam, Rashawn Fredericks, LaQuill Hardnet and Logan Johnson.

As much as we want to blame Brannen (and deservingly so), these classes did not help the situation for 2019, 2020 and 2021. One or more of the 2018 class could be a 5th year senior on the current team if they were half-way decent (Logan Johnson was the better of the bunch but he was no better than what we currently have on our roster).

I mostly agree with this, but I want to shout out Logan Johnson who is an elite defender and key player on the best St Mary's team I can remember. St Mary's has never been known for their defense, but they are elite defensively this year. Logan has a lot to do with it. He's a decent offensive player (not much of a shooter) but he leads St Mary's in minutes because he's so damn good on the defensive end. He's had a hell of a college career.

No doubt Logan is a great defender-- but the overall class was not good. I listened to Mick at a function on campus talk about recruiting-- he was burnt out. He was talking about focusing more overseas going forward grabbing guys from Africa, Europe and even Asia. Now some of our fans blame that on Bohn, but like a lot of people he just reached a plateau at this job and checked out.

Working well for Arizona.

Did he state he was burnt out or was that your perception from wanting to recruit more guys from overseas?

(02-03-2023 06:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 05:22 PM)levydl Wrote:  [

One would think you anti-Cronin guys would just want to give up at this point, but this type of nonsense seems to surface every year.

You don't have to be "anti-cronin" to think his recruiting fell off his last couple of years year. Seemed to me he was looking for an exit. I liked Cronin and spoke highly of his teams. When people were complaining about his slow tempo style i was pointing out it doesn't matter how fast you play.... it's about efficiency.

But his recruiting fell off after the jarron, brooks, Scott senior class. It's undeniable.

There's no point in rehashing this for the millionth time, but the idea that Cronin did not leave the program in good shape is silly.

(02-03-2023 06:34 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 06:26 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 05:22 PM)levydl Wrote:  [

One would think you anti-Cronin guys would just want to give up at this point, but this type of nonsense seems to surface every year.

You don't have to be "anti-cronin" to think his recruiting fell off his last couple of years year. Seemed to me he was looking for an exit. I liked Cronin and spoke highly of his teams. When people were complaining about his slow tempo style i was pointing out it doesn't matter how fast you play.... it's about efficiency.

But his recruiting fell off after the jarron, brooks, Scott senior class. It's undeniable.

There's no point in rehashing this for the millionth time, but the idea that Cronin did not leave the program in good shape is silly.

He left a damn good senior class with some landmines to navigate the next couple of years after. The right coach would have been fine, but could very well have missed the tournament in year 2. Definitely would have needed to find a couple of high end guys that weren't in the program.

The wrong coach ended up compounding the issue and putting the program in a really bad place

(02-03-2023 06:28 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:41 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 02:03 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  Cronin started basically from zero and left it in good shape.

Brannen regressed it to mediocre.

So far it hasn't seem like it's improved much under Miller and that's what's got people freaking out.

I'm going to disagree he left it in good shape. His last few recruiting classes weren't very good:

2016: Jarron and Nysier were good, but he left a scholly on the table.
2017: Keith Williams (ok, good), but then Trevor Moore, Mamoudou Diarra and Eliel Nsoseme.
2018: Prince Gillam, Rashawn Fredericks, LaQuill Hardnet and Logan Johnson.

As much as we want to blame Brannen (and deservingly so), these classes did not help the situation for 2019, 2020 and 2021. One or more of the 2018 class could be a 5th year senior on the current team if they were half-way decent (Logan Johnson was the better of the bunch but he was no better than what we currently have on our roster).

I mostly agree with this, but I want to shout out Logan Johnson who is an elite defender and key player on the best St Mary's team I can remember. St Mary's has never been known for their defense, but they are elite defensively this year. Logan has a lot to do with it. He's a decent offensive player (not much of a shooter) but he leads St Mary's in minutes because he's so damn good on the defensive end. He's had a hell of a college career.

No doubt Logan is a great defender-- but the overall class was not good. I listened to Mick at a function on campus talk about recruiting-- he was burnt out. He was talking about focusing more overseas going forward grabbing guys from Africa, Europe and even Asia. Now some of our fans blame that on Bohn, but like a lot of people he just reached a plateau at this job and checked out.

Working well for Arizona.

Did he state he was burnt out or was that your perception from wanting to recruit more guys from overseas?

Perception. There were other things said. He was basically sounding like Danny Glover/Roger Murtaugh “I am too old for this shyte” (he didn’t say that but he might as well have).

I’ve seen that look before, he was ready to leave- not saying it was his fault, he needed something different. Many of us reach that place eventually professionally.

(02-03-2023 07:52 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Perception. There were other things said. He was basically sounding like Danny Glover/Roger Murtaugh “I am too old for this shyte” (he didn’t say that but he might as well have).

1987 baby! CAvenue is in my neck of the generation woods.

(02-03-2023 07:52 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 06:28 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:41 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:30 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  I'm going to disagree he left it in good shape. His last few recruiting classes weren't very good:

2016: Jarron and Nysier were good, but he left a scholly on the table.
2017: Keith Williams (ok, good), but then Trevor Moore, Mamoudou Diarra and Eliel Nsoseme.
2018: Prince Gillam, Rashawn Fredericks, LaQuill Hardnet and Logan Johnson.

As much as we want to blame Brannen (and deservingly so), these classes did not help the situation for 2019, 2020 and 2021. One or more of the 2018 class could be a 5th year senior on the current team if they were half-way decent (Logan Johnson was the better of the bunch but he was no better than what we currently have on our roster).

I mostly agree with this, but I want to shout out Logan Johnson who is an elite defender and key player on the best St Mary's team I can remember. St Mary's has never been known for their defense, but they are elite defensively this year. Logan has a lot to do with it. He's a decent offensive player (not much of a shooter) but he leads St Mary's in minutes because he's so damn good on the defensive end. He's had a hell of a college career.

No doubt Logan is a great defender-- but the overall class was not good. I listened to Mick at a function on campus talk about recruiting-- he was burnt out. He was talking about focusing more overseas going forward grabbing guys from Africa, Europe and even Asia. Now some of our fans blame that on Bohn, but like a lot of people he just reached a plateau at this job and checked out.

Working well for Arizona.

Did he state he was burnt out or was that your perception from wanting to recruit more guys from overseas?

Perception. There were other things said. He was basically sounding like Danny Glover/Roger Murtaugh “I am too old for this shyte” (he didn’t say that but he might as well have).

I’ve seen that look before, he was ready to leave- not saying it was his fault, he needed something different. Many of us reach that place eventually professionally.

LOL delusional.

Convince Nolley to come back and get Bidunga to commit and reclassify to ‘23 and things start to look completely different for next year.

Lot easier said than done though.

(02-03-2023 01:38 PM)BearcatDave Wrote:  We got a good Juco guard i saw via twitter..

That's right. Daveon and Jizzle both love getting into the paint and making things happen. Those two, with Dan, and we'll see a ton of FT opportunities in the future.

(02-02-2023 02:38 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Yep. Until this team actually wins against a team with a pulse, I'm in the prove it camp. 1/2 of the AAC is a complete mess.

We play well against cruddy teams. We should. It makes it hard to evaluate when we've played so many bad teams and lost to all the decent ones. Our season signature win is still Tulane on our home court.

We even lost to one of the bad teams we played but that was very early.

I try to be optimistic, but can't get sky high about the team to this point. As you say, we generally beat the teams we should and lose to good ones - a classic NIT resume.

The good news is, without any games left vs. Houston until the conference tournament, there is a lot of opportunity to go on a run. Mark points out that the current 2nd-4th place teams still have to play Houston. But, we also have to play two out of three of those on the road. No room for error at this point. 6-2, maybe even 7-1, finish needs to happen to avoid an early tussle with Houston, in FW.

(02-04-2023 08:48 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  

(02-02-2023 02:38 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Yep. Until this team actually wins against a team with a pulse, I'm in the prove it camp. 1/2 of the AAC is a complete mess.

We play well against cruddy teams. We should. It makes it hard to evaluate when we've played so many bad teams and lost to all the decent ones. Our season signature win is still Tulane on our home court.

We even lost to one of the bad teams we played but that was very early.

I try to be optimistic, but can't get sky high about the team to this point. As you say, we generally beat the teams we should and lose to good ones - a classic NIT resume.

The good news is, without any games left vs. Houston until the conference tournament, there is a lot of opportunity to go on a run. Mark points out that the current 2nd-4th place teams still have to play Houston. But, we also have to play two out of three of those on the road. No room for error at this point. 6-2, maybe even 7-1, finish needs to happen to avoid an early tussle with Houston, in FW.

Begsthe question. Would you rather be 4 or 5 seed and get a bye but play Houston in semi finals or get the 6 seed and have to play an extra game against Tulsa but be on the other side of the bracket as Houston.

Obviously ideally they just win enough to get the 2 or 3 seed.

(02-04-2023 08:57 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 08:48 AM)Ring of Black Wrote:  

(02-02-2023 02:38 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Yep. Until this team actually wins against a team with a pulse, I'm in the prove it camp. 1/2 of the AAC is a complete mess.

We play well against cruddy teams. We should. It makes it hard to evaluate when we've played so many bad teams and lost to all the decent ones. Our season signature win is still Tulane on our home court.

We even lost to one of the bad teams we played but that was very early.

I try to be optimistic, but can't get sky high about the team to this point. As you say, we generally beat the teams we should and lose to good ones - a classic NIT resume.

The good news is, without any games left vs. Houston until the conference tournament, there is a lot of opportunity to go on a run. Mark points out that the current 2nd-4th place teams still have to play Houston. But, we also have to play two out of three of those on the road. No room for error at this point. 6-2, maybe even 7-1, finish needs to happen to avoid an early tussle with Houston, in FW.

Begsthe question. Would you rather be 4 or 5 seed and get a bye but play Houston in semi finals or get the 6 seed and have to play an extra game against Tulsa but be on the other side of the bracket as Houston.

Obviously ideally they just win enough to get the 2 or 3 seed.

I'd rather get Houston in the final. Depth doesn't seem to be a strong suit of theirs. It was probably was the main factor in Cronin's final UC team beating them in the tourney final, after that UH team had swept UC in the regular season. On the other hand, we've seen a willingness from Wes to play a lot of guys.

(02-02-2023 02:39 PM)JUSTGOPLAY Wrote:  This bunch is vastly improved from where they were in December......If they had one guy they could throw the ball to in the last three or four minutes of the game and say "OK, go close this thing out for us" we could hang with good teams. Nolley is a good scorer, but he can disappear at winning time. DeJulius can be checked at winning time. This group is a Steve Logan or Jaron Cumberland away from being back to where they need to be....

This is where i'm at and i think we are more or less seeing what this team is at this point in time. They have made improvements and hopefully will continue on a positive trajectory. its talent will get better but the bolded is what's truly missing. As much as i loved JEIIIs athleticism, Jarron was a killer. He was HIM before that term had any meaning. Everyone respected that and, tbh, his rep earned him calls that this team simply doesn't get. i think the recruits coming in are talented but the transfer portal is probably where we are going to find the closer that we need.

(02-03-2023 04:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 02:03 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-02-2023 09:31 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  People don't remember what rebuilds were like when losing 10 straight games in conference was the norm. Mick was obviously put into a bigger hole than Wes, but man we lost to BRADLEY in the 3rd season of Mick's rebuild. I mean it took years before we even had NIT caliber players.

Then one year we made the tournament and didn't look back. I wasn't sold on Mick until that happened.

Wes is trending in the right direction and feels close to getting us where we need to be. This feels like a bubble team that couldn't get big wins. Happens.

Cronin started basically from zero and left it in good shape.

Brannen regressed it to mediocre.

So far it hasn't seem like it's improved much under Miller and that's what's got people freaking out.

I'm going to disagree he left it in good shape. His last few recruiting classes weren't very good:

2016: Jarron and Nysier were good, but he left a scholly on the table.
2017: Keith Williams (ok, good), but then Trevor Moore, Mamoudou Diarra and Eliel Nsoseme.
2018: Prince Gillam, Rashawn Fredericks, LaQuill Hardnet and Logan Johnson.

As much as we want to blame Brannen (and deservingly so), these classes did not help the situation for 2019, 2020 and 2021. One or more of the 2018 class could be a 5th year senior on the current team if they were half-way decent (Logan Johnson was the better of the bunch but he was no better than what we currently have on our roster).

Cumberland, Brooks, Williams, Johnson, and Nsoseme.

or...

Lahkin, Nolley, Dejulius, Woods and Davenport.


Which squad you taking?

(02-04-2023 11:01 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 02:03 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-02-2023 09:31 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  People don't remember what rebuilds were like when losing 10 straight games in conference was the norm. Mick was obviously put into a bigger hole than Wes, but man we lost to BRADLEY in the 3rd season of Mick's rebuild. I mean it took years before we even had NIT caliber players.

Then one year we made the tournament and didn't look back. I wasn't sold on Mick until that happened.

Wes is trending in the right direction and feels close to getting us where we need to be. This feels like a bubble team that couldn't get big wins. Happens.

Cronin started basically from zero and left it in good shape.

Brannen regressed it to mediocre.

So far it hasn't seem like it's improved much under Miller and that's what's got people freaking out.

I'm going to disagree he left it in good shape. His last few recruiting classes weren't very good:

2016: Jarron and Nysier were good, but he left a scholly on the table.
2017: Keith Williams (ok, good), but then Trevor Moore, Mamoudou Diarra and Eliel Nsoseme.
2018: Prince Gillam, Rashawn Fredericks, LaQuill Hardnet and Logan Johnson.

As much as we want to blame Brannen (and deservingly so), these classes did not help the situation for 2019, 2020 and 2021. One or more of the 2018 class could be a 5th year senior on the current team if they were half-way decent (Logan Johnson was the better of the bunch but he was no better than what we currently have on our roster).

Cumberland, Brooks, Williams, Johnson, and Nsoseme.

or...

Lahkin, Nolley, Dejulius, Woods and Davenport.


Which squad you taking?

Some of you are missing the forest through the trees here. This is why I generally stay away from basketball posts. Yes, that lineup is up is better, I am talking about the following year and thereafter when we would have to rely on the fruits of the 2017 and 2018 class.

(02-04-2023 11:54 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 11:01 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 04:23 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 02:03 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(02-02-2023 09:31 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  People don't remember what rebuilds were like when losing 10 straight games in conference was the norm. Mick was obviously put into a bigger hole than Wes, but man we lost to BRADLEY in the 3rd season of Mick's rebuild. I mean it took years before we even had NIT caliber players.

Then one year we made the tournament and didn't look back. I wasn't sold on Mick until that happened.

Wes is trending in the right direction and feels close to getting us where we need to be. This feels like a bubble team that couldn't get big wins. Happens.

Cronin started basically from zero and left it in good shape.

Brannen regressed it to mediocre.

So far it hasn't seem like it's improved much under Miller and that's what's got people freaking out.

I'm going to disagree he left it in good shape. His last few recruiting classes weren't very good:

2016: Jarron and Nysier were good, but he left a scholly on the table.
2017: Keith Williams (ok, good), but then Trevor Moore, Mamoudou Diarra and Eliel Nsoseme.
2018: Prince Gillam, Rashawn Fredericks, LaQuill Hardnet and Logan Johnson.

As much as we want to blame Brannen (and deservingly so), these classes did not help the situation for 2019, 2020 and 2021. One or more of the 2018 class could be a 5th year senior on the current team if they were half-way decent (Logan Johnson was the better of the bunch but he was no better than what we currently have on our roster).

Cumberland, Brooks, Williams, Johnson, and Nsoseme.

or...

Lahkin, Nolley, Dejulius, Woods and Davenport.


Which squad you taking?

Some of you are missing the forest through the trees here. This is why I generally stay away from basketball posts. Yes, that lineup is up is better, I am talking about the following year and thereafter when we would have to rely on the fruits of the 2017 and 2018 class.

I didn't post that to rip on this year's team.

However, we are just not back to where we were under Cronin. Not yet.

No one is saying that, Mick made like 9 straight Tournaments. I'm only saying that in Year 2 of the Wes rebuild, he's far ahead of where Mick was in Year 2, year 3, and right about where Mick was in year 4. Given how difficult Mick's rebuild was that makes sense.

Bearcat defense has been elite in conference.

Uc is first in fewest points per possession allowed
Uc if first in effective fg% defense.
1st in defense rebounding %
3rd in foul %

They do an incredible job running teams off the 3 point line as teams take fewer threes against uc than anyone else in the conference.

But they don't sacrifice interior defense as they lead the league in 2point percentage defense.

They also lead the league in fewest opponents assists per fg attempt (meaning they make their opponents play a ton of iso ball).

This team is defending their asses off.

(02-06-2023 07:24 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Bearcat defense has been elite in conference.

Uc is first in fewest points per possession allowed
Uc if first in effective fg% defense.
1st in defense rebounding %
3rd in foul %

They do an incredible job running teams off the 3 point line as teams take fewer threes against uc than anyone else in the conference.

But they don't sacrifice interior defense as they lead the league in 2point percentage defense.

They also lead the league in fewest opponents assists per fg attempt (meaning they make their opponents play a ton of iso ball).

This team is defending their asses off.

Really impressive.

Combine that with Wes Miller's recruiting for next season and it's easy to understand the value in locking him into an extension before a bevy of mid to low level P5 schools with pockets full of cash come calling. Wes seems genuine in appreciating the opportunity to lead an historically elite program too, so if progress continues he could enjoy a long tenure in the best conference in America.

(02-06-2023 08:26 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(02-06-2023 07:24 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Bearcat defense has been elite in conference.

Uc is first in fewest points per possession allowed
Uc if first in effective fg% defense.
1st in defense rebounding %
3rd in foul %

They do an incredible job running teams off the 3 point line as teams take fewer threes against uc than anyone else in the conference.

But they don't sacrifice interior defense as they lead the league in 2point percentage defense.

They also lead the league in fewest opponents assists per fg attempt (meaning they make their opponents play a ton of iso ball).

This team is defending their asses off.

Really impressive.

Combine that with Wes Miller's recruiting for next season and it's easy to understand the value in locking him into an extension before a bevy of mid to low level P5 schools with pockets full of cash come calling. Wes seems genuine in appreciating the opportunity to lead an historically elite program too, so if progress continues he could enjoy a long tenure in the best conference in America.

I should imagine Nolley would find us moving to the BIG12 next year attractive. Throw him a couple of NIL bucks to get him to come back. Every reason to think Lahkin comes back. Can John Newman get a medical red shirt? Find a couple of JUCO rebounders and rim protectors to go with the high schoolers we got coming, and that roster for next year ain't half bad.

(02-06-2023 11:33 AM)JUSTGOPLAY Wrote:  I should imagine Nolley would find us moving to the BIG12 next year attractive. Throw him a couple of NIL bucks to get him to come back. Every reason to think Lahkin comes back. Can John Newman get a medical red shirt? Find a couple of JUCO rebounders and rim protectors to go with the high schoolers we got coming, and that roster for next year ain't half bad.

The question is whether NIL can beat $40k a year (pretax) for a five month season. if so, there's a chance he stays.

How much do G League players make?

He's got a daughter so i don't know if he's interested in going overseas for more lucrative pay.

Setting money aside, the question is one that's probably similar to what Pace faced: if he comes back and plays against better competition, will he have better results?

He's averaging 15.8 pts, 5.6 rebs, and 2.7 assists, on 44.4% from 3 and 47.6 FG%. Do those numbers go up in b12 competition? i don't think so. Put it altogether and i think he's gone for sure.