Date: December 21, 2022

Time: 8:00 PM

Opponent: LSU (10-1, 0-0 SEC)

Place: Maravich Center (13,215)

Television: none

Webcast: ESPN+ *(subscription)

Radio online: 640WXSM.com

LSU 2022-2023 Schedule

LSU 2022-2023 Roster

LSU Message Board

I am.. slightly scared for this one

Shaw, Gregory, and Ilic appear to not be on the bench? Or at least not dressed?

[edit: Yes, they're on the bench. Just haven't taken their warm-ups off.]

Lucky not to be down 20+.

If Joe Hugley were coaching and Jordan King sat the whole game at the end of the bench, I’m convinced we would be ahead in this game.

Thats a crazy statement. Hughley, surely your joking

That is really the best we can come up with? Either the coaching is horrendous, or Jordan King is a bonehead. He is killing us. We had lots of way better options and that is the shot we take with 10 seconds left. Inexcusable and pathetic.

King is a detriment to the team this year. Needs his eyes checked. Tried to be the hero and totally choked on a TERRIBLE shot SMOTHERED with 10 seconds left. Coach needs to put a leash on that.

Guards in general can’t shoot to save their mama’s life. The bigs played their asses off, yet again.

Otherwise, terrible 1st half nearly salvaged by a tremendous 2nd half effort. The three ball has got to start falling if this team wants to find some path to a .500 season….on to Wofford, who played LSU just as close.

Jordan King and #5 are terrible and killing us. They should not touch the floor. Have smith tipler and hairston rotate. King has knocked us out of winning every single game. Why let King do hero ball there? Does Oliver even draw up plays to suit our strengths?

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Even if King makes that 10 seconds is left for LSU to run anything and easily win. Why allow them 10 seconds? That is to much!

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I would rather Smith be getting King’s start/minutes and push development running the offense along with Tipler. Tipler is not getting as much flack, but he’s got the same garbage shooting heroics as King—but he is coming up with big plays that aren’t in King’s vocabulary this year. Oliver has got to talk to Jesus this holiday season and call it a lost cause with Jordan. Do not let him tank the team’s conference in his final year. It’s just not worth it! A comeback win tonight would have got butts back in the seats at Freedom Hall, not to mention a fat Christmas for the Oliver family (bonus $).

Our big men gave it their all. I wish they had a semblance of less than mediocre guard play so they could get a W at some point.

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Honestly I turned it off in the second half . I told my wife they will make a run then blow it at the end ….again.

Groundhog day.

Yeah, Tipler was red hot. 3-12, 0- 5 3pt and Smith was 0-4, 0-3 3pt, plus played no D and as usual managed to be out of bounds with the ball. That's 3 sraight games that he has been out of bounds at crucial times, not because of defensive pressure, just unfored errors.Tbe bigs and guards time after time did not get back on D and gave up uncontested layups.

Its ok to call someone out but to put all the blame on King and Oliver is ridiculous.

I didn't say anything after the lose to Asheville but I noticed, as usual the criticism of Coach and King but somehow no one noticed or made reference to Josh Taylor leaving the game with 10 mon left in Ist half and played 0 minutes in 2nd half. Losing one of our best rebounders and 3pt shooter is a major blow. The team and coaches overcame Taylors loss and had the Bucs in postion to win. Asheville got every break in the last 15 sec. Bucs played tremendous D 3 straight possessions and never got one possession and was beat on a 30ft contested, desperation 3pt shot. Kings fault, Olivers fault?

To be fair, how about critiquing the offense, defense, and floor mistakes of all the players instead of just King.

No one on this board would have predicted the Bucs would play LSU as tough as they did. It was a testament to the coaching staff and the players to have a good game plan and the players fighting for a win. One of the major problems is the Bucs must play hard as possible for 40 minutes, All the players must minimize the silly mistakes.

Go Bucs

King is a returning senior, the presumptive court leader, making bad decisions and continuing to shoot blanks. Oliver is not keeping a leash on it. At least myself, I pointed out that “the guards can’t shoot to save their mama’s life” which of course I really mean the three ball. As it goes, King alone did not lose tonight’s game, but he absolutely threw away the last ditch effort. More poise is needed from King and the coaching staff in those moments. Perhaps there was a play that got sacked by LSU’s defensive scheme. Maybe that forced King out of rhythm and reaching for something out of thin air. But why with 10 seconds left?

Asheville was lost in the first 10 mins of the second half where the team came out flat, disorganized, and sloppy. Helluva shot by Pimber.

P.S. I don’t think King should just flat out be benched, but it’s time to stop firing at will. Stick to the mid range and drive/drive n dish game and only shoot open threes. No more shots 5+ feet behind the line, no more contested pullups from three, no more low percentage/stat killing arrogant shots that are as good as turnovers at the clip he’s firing. Enough is enough. Same for Tipler.

While it's pretty hard to disagree that King is losing us games right now, there are things that are not being mentioned.

1. He could be absolutely red hot - and won us games last year. Kinda like Good, except not to that degree, of course. So think of Pigram's slump(s) - one minor one, and one *real* bad one, as I recall. He even quite playing for a bit. Yet in the long run he sure won us a lot more game than he lost us. Will King be able to turn things around? Who knows? But it's possible.

2a. Because of the first part of #1 above, King is totally willing and unafraid to take that last shot. Our bigs often don't finish well. Oliver knew he would be confident taking it. Was that a wrong decision? Who knows?

2b. It's not like King's shots are looking bad. Many of his misses were very nearly not misses. Yes, he sometimes - not even rarely - makes poor decisions on his shots. But that's just part of his psyche. I'm not saying it can't be improved; it would wonderful if it could be. Much, much easier said than done. What I'm saying is that whatever his shooting percentage is (and I know it's not wonderful), it could just as well be 10 points higher and his delivery would be the same. He's not bricking them up there.

3. As I pointed out in another post, King may be our best on-the-ball defender right now. I think he is, altho Tipler and Smith certainly have their moments.

4a. King is a gunner; a high-volume shooter, and it's *real* hard to change that without messing with the mind. He has no conscience because that's the way he's always been since the playgrounds or junior high school. We would want someone with no conscience taking that shot. Tipler would have been ok. Who else? Smith? Maybe, but he's not yet shown that cold-blooded nature - just hasn't had the chances. And neither one of those had hit a 3-pt. shot all game, I don't think. Point being, sometimes a 25-30% gunner with high confidence at the end of the game is better than a 40% shooter who might not feel so unafraid. I'm just sayin'; not judging. I'm not claiming that that was a wrong decision or a right one. Only that it seems like you all aren't digging down to that level. Sooooooo much of shooting is confidence. Oliver *knew* King would shoot with confidence. I could be wrong, but I bet that was a huge part of his decision, if indeed that was the plan. (Often in those situations, with 8 seconds, there'll be a plan A and a plan B, depending on how the D reacts.)

4b. Serious question -- with the game on the line, who would we want at the FT line? Right - King. If he can handle that pressure, then he can handle the pressure of a last-second FG attempt. He may not make it, but he's a good option just because of that factor.

5. That leaves the possibility of Taylor, who altho a big, was shooting the best from outside. Guess who LSU was expecting to take that shot? Right. And since Taylor generally can't take a man off the dribble, his chances of getting a clean shot weren't that high - or at least I suspect that was Oliver's thinking.

To be clear....................I'm not 'defending' Oliver (or King); I'm just pointing out factors that perhaps you all haven't weighed. We almost certainly wouldn't be having this discussion if the shot went in.

(12-21-2022 11:37 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  No one on this board would have predicted the Bucs would play LSU as tough as they did. It was a testament to the coaching staff and the players to have a good game plan and the players fighting for a win. One of the major problems is the Bucs must play hard as possible for 40 minutes, All the players must minimize the silly mistakes.

At the end of the UNC-A game, in the post-game interview, Oliver lauded his team, said he loved them, and literally said that they could win any given game remaining on the schedule. And he meant it. And I actually agreed with him. And still do. Did I think we'd beat LSU down there? No, but didn't discount it as a realistic possibility. It truly would not have shocked me. There's *still* a lot to like about this team. I think they're showing grit, and determination. When (or even if) that shows up as Ws, we can't know, and even the best of "teams" can eventually get discouraged. But I don't see any dissension, no quit, no selfishness. None. I see good spacing, (mostly) decent-to-good ball movement. Team chemistry, altho not yet up to the level of the 30-4 team and the few years that preceded that (nor can it be as they're mostly new), is not bad at all. It's pretty decent. But yes, I still see a fair amount of poor decision-making. Turnovers may have 'turned' the corner, if you'll pardon the borrow. Obviously those'll be up and down.

Of course, spur of the moment reactions and comments on a message board following a loss are not to be taken for well-formulated (or even accurate thoughts). The team did play well last night, as they have in some of the other losses. Both the coaching staff and players obviously deserve credit for that.

That said, I still believe that if King isn't able to change his approach he should be a role player off the bench. His best shots are mid-range pull up jumpers. However, he seems to think that he is Steph Curry throwing up garbage shots early in the shot clock from long range. He has been doing it since he has been here, and yes, perhaps that is the way that he has been playing since the playground and junior high. He showed last season that he can hit those types of shots, but overall they mess with the flow of the offense. In close games where each possession is critical, those poor shots are very costly. And, we don't need them! This season, our best players are in the post.

As for Oliver, my main issue is a personal one- I don't like the style of basketball that he prefers to play. Even if King were to hit that last shot (or some of the other poor shots that he took), it just isn't good basketball IMO. To be fair, I didn't like Shay's style either. Perhaps I am getting too old to enjoy the way that much of modern college basketball is played.

(12-22-2022 07:07 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(12-21-2022 11:37 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  No one on this board would have predicted the Bucs would play LSU as tough as they did. It was a testament to the coaching staff and the players to have a good game plan and the players fighting for a win. One of the major problems is the Bucs must play hard as possible for 40 minutes, All the players must minimize the silly mistakes.

At the end of the UNC-A game, in the post-game interview, Oliver lauded his team, said he loved them, and literally said that they could win any given game remaining on the schedule. And he meant it. And I actually agreed with him. And still do. Did I think we'd beat LSU down there? No, but didn't discount it as a realistic possibility. It truly would not have shocked me. There's *still* a lot to like about this team. I think they're showing grit, and determination. When (or even if) that shows up as Ws, we can't know, and even the best of "teams" can eventually get discouraged. But I don't see any dissension, no quit, no selfishness. None. I see good spacing, (mostly) decent-to-good ball movement. Team chemistry, altho not yet up to the level of the 30-4 team and the few years that preceded that (nor can it be as they're mostly new), is not bad at all. It's pretty decent. But yes, I still see a fair amount of poor decision-making. Turnovers may have 'turned' the corner, if you'll pardon the borrow. Obviously those'll be up and down.

I think this team is very close to being good. They are right there. I am wondering if King is being asked to do a lot more than he did last year. He is more of a catch and shoot guy and it looks like he is being asked to do a little more than that this year. I am no expert, just my thoughts. If we can keep this team together next year with the addition of some guard help we could be very good.

(12-22-2022 09:44 AM)peppersbro Wrote:  

(12-22-2022 07:07 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(12-21-2022 11:37 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  No one on this board would have predicted the Bucs would play LSU as tough as they did. It was a testament to the coaching staff and the players to have a good game plan and the players fighting for a win. One of the major problems is the Bucs must play hard as possible for 40 minutes, All the players must minimize the silly mistakes.

At the end of the UNC-A game, in the post-game interview, Oliver lauded his team, said he loved them, and literally said that they could win any given game remaining on the schedule. And he meant it. And I actually agreed with him. And still do. Did I think we'd beat LSU down there? No, but didn't discount it as a realistic possibility. It truly would not have shocked me. There's *still* a lot to like about this team. I think they're showing grit, and determination. When (or even if) that shows up as Ws, we can't know, and even the best of "teams" can eventually get discouraged. But I don't see any dissension, no quit, no selfishness. None. I see good spacing, (mostly) decent-to-good ball movement. Team chemistry, altho not yet up to the level of the 30-4 team and the few years that preceded that (nor can it be as they're mostly new), is not bad at all. It's pretty decent. But yes, I still see a fair amount of poor decision-making. Turnovers may have 'turned' the corner, if you'll pardon the borrow. Obviously those'll be up and down.

I think this team is very close to being good. They are right there. I am wondering if King is being asked to do a lot more than he did last year. He is more of a catch and shoot guy and it looks like he is being asked to do a little more than that this year. I am no expert, just my thoughts. If we can keep this team together next year with the addition of some guard help we could be very good.

Totally agree. Like Coach said after the game the difference was just maturity. The talent is there and we all know the team could be 9-4 right now or 10-3 right now and we would be talking about soaring to new heights. We have some time off now to prepare for conference play and have a chance to be right in the thick of it if we play like the last two games with some more confidence and maturity. Those two road games will tell us a lot.