(12-22-2022 07:31 AM)etsubuc Wrote:  That said, I still believe that if King isn't able to change his approach he should be a role player off the bench. His best shots are mid-range pull up jumpers. However, he seems to think that he is Steph Curry throwing up garbage shots early in the shot clock from long range. He has been doing it since he has been here, and yes, perhaps that is the way that he has been playing since the playground and junior high. He showed last season that he can hit those types of shots, but overall they mess with the flow of the offense. In close games where each possession is critical, those poor shots are very costly. And, we don't need them! This season, our best players are in the post.

Hey, I don't disagree with you, really. Like I said, I wasn't defending either Oliver or King; only that one must realize it's a nuanced situation and a little bit of "take the bad with the good" kind of thing.

This reminds me SO much of the story of Timmy and bartow. We all know that in Tim's first year, he was able to be controlled/channeled and kept in check, by his older, wiser godfather-esque teammates Jerald and Zakee. And what a successful meld that was. Then after they graduated, from Tim's year 2 thru 4,he was (literally) a loose cannon, for better *and* for worse. And bartow couldn't control him - and gave up trying - leading to the infamous "Timmy's my guy". If he *could* have controlled him, ETSU would quite possibly have at least 2 more NCAA tournaments wins under it's belt.

Of course the difference is that King doesn't have an older mentor-type teammate because of how quickly teams (certainly including this one) turn over these days. ALSO...........and I probably should have made this another bullet point............who's Oliver's "coach on the floor"? There's not even any good candidates outside of King. Strothers would likely be choice #2, but we all know he's not fully ready for that role. We can wish that it were not so, but there's just no other option for now. And sometimes just *that* is a very critical piece of the puzzle. If Jancek was a guard and had the ball in his hands a lot, he would likely be good at it - but it's gotta be a guard - and we just don't have a good range of choices there. Ideally, yes, Oliver can do the channeling, or fine-tuning, or whatever we want to call it. We'll see. I just think that Oliver, without likely using those words, at least out loud, sees it as a "take the bitter with the sweet" scenario. Just my guess on it.

[addendum: Yes, King is probably trying to do too much. Last year, with Sloan running things, he could be a successful shooting guard. Is it too much for him to be both the point and shooter? Well, so far, it may be - but there are times when it can work. Again, we'll see......]

It was one heck of a game. We did scare LSU for sure. Now we have enough film and games behind us to figure this out.....Go Bucs

I know it sounds crazy. But I'm going to throw this up on the board anyway. I've had a few conversations with folks who follow the bucs from a distance (chicago, dallas, knoxville) and on more than once occasion someone has brought up the question, "Could the bucs be cursed?"

Everyone usually laughs at the absurdity of it, then stop to consider just how badly the bucs seem to play at the end of every game. I don't personally believe in curses, but I am bent to believe in Karma. And if there is such a thing, the bucs seem to have a lot of bad karma these days.

I prefer (but hate to) call it "karma" for the twin sins of Noland caving to political/financial forces, and shay (and Forbes, more clearly in retrospect) treating players as expendable. That despite the latter two stating pithily about "buying into", respect, etc., etc. And yes, I know it happens a lot of places; that doesn't make it right. Something quite a few posters on this board haven't agreed with over the years. Probably, on balance........the caving was the biggest impact. Noland was certainly caught in the proverbial "between a rock and a hard place". Still waiting for some news organization with guts to publish the details on all that. And sure, I suspect it may never happen.

IMO, we brought it on ourselves. Not the fans (mostly), but just the way ETSU is set up as a state institution. Lot of good comes with that, of course, but always lots of strings that come into play. And I'm of course not just talking about athletics. As I wrote in another post..............money, altho a 'necessary evil', drives too many decisions. And sure, I also know that's subject to each person's perspective and where they fit into the stakeholder construct. Just the way I see things.

I personally don't think that necessarily explains the failure to complete games favorably this season. I just think that's still a painful learning/growing process. Of course the DNA of that stems at least partly from the things I stated at the top.

IMO, the blame lies inside the NCAA. They've become the parent who chooses to appease rather than teach.

(12-23-2022 06:15 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I prefer (but hate to) call it "karma" for the twin sins of Noland caving to political/financial forces, and shay (and Forbes, more clearly in retrospect) treating players as expendable. That despite the latter two stating pithily about "buying into", respect, etc., etc. And yes, I know it happens a lot of places; that doesn't make it right. Something quite a few posters on this board haven't agreed with over the years. Probably, on balance........the caving was the biggest impact. Noland was certainly caught in the proverbial "between a rock and a hard place". Still waiting for some news organization with guts to publish the details on all that. And sure, I suspect it may never happen.

IMO, we brought it on ourselves. Not the fans (mostly), but just the way ETSU is set up as a state institution. Lot of good comes with that, of course, but always lots of strings that come into play. And I'm of course not just talking about athletics. As I wrote in another post..............money, altho a 'necessary evil', drives too many decisions. And sure, I also know that's subject to each person's perspective and where they fit into the stakeholder construct. Just the way I see things.

I personally don't think that necessarily explains the failure to complete games favorably this season. I just think that's still a painful learning/growing process. Of course the DNA of that stems at least partly from the things I stated at the top.

Five in a row by an average of 2.8 points. Right now, this team needs to stay farm away from Vegas. Too far away and too detached to know the inside of that political disaster. From what was made public, I did see Noland between that proverbial rock and hard place — and would ask his critics of how they would have handled it. Again, from a distance, I place the blame for that bad situation for the institution of ETSU squarely on the shoulders of Shay and Carter.

Again, from a distance, I place the blame for that bad situation for the institution of ETSU squarely on the shoulders of Shay and Carter.

Agree with 66

Both AD Carter and Shay should shoulder most of the blame for the rapid demise of the once proud men's hoops program. Shay who should have never sniffed a D1 HEAD coaching job to start with, and of course Scott Carter for hiring him. Speaking of Carter's hires, they haven't been exactly home-runs. Most all have been disasters.

One huge difference maker is the talent level. Compareing this team with Forbes teams, way down.on every level. King, Tipler and Seymore sre the only players that have at least 1 yr of experience playing at the D1 level. All other players got either a few garbage minutes or played at at lower level. This team has no proven leader and is woefully short in experience. It's trial by fire,, learning on the go. That's why you play the OCC, to build individual and team experience, money games and a few guaranteed wins to bolster team and fan morale.

If this team can keep their heads up and continue to improve, they have shown they are capable of winning games, especially in what looks to be, a weak SoCon.

There are no substitutes for talent, experience, a desire to improve, coaching and teamwork. They go hand in hand to forge a winner.

GO BUCS