(10-26-2022 12:03 PM)thespywhozaggedme Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 11:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 11:34 AM)thespywhozaggedme Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 09:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  Ah, the original C-USA Virus has now infected the Big XII. We've seen it mutate and matriculate from C-USA to the Big East—it killed its host almost immediately—to the Aresco strain in the AAC. Now it seems to be in its Yormark phase in the Big XII. Keen eyes of science, pay attention!

Matriculate?

matriculate verb
ma·​tric·​u·​late | \ mə-ˈtri-kyə-ˌlāt \
matriculated; matriculating
Definition of matriculate
transitive verb
: to enroll as a member of a body and especially of a college or university
intransitive verb
: to be enrolled at a college or university
She matriculated at the state university.

-23??

Ever bend the English language to the will of your ink pen, er computer keyboard?

My computer keyboard does not have “will”, free or otherwise. Just admit that you did not know what the word meant. And you used it incorrectly. It’s no big deal. Just like my -23 is no big deal.

Lol

I 100% know what it means and I used it as a metaphor as in the virus entering the conference.

(10-26-2022 12:34 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 11:26 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 10:12 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 10:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 09:51 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  C-USA and the Big East didn't have $30m media rights deals though, they were more like 1/10th of that (or I presume even less for the original C-USA).

I listened to his entire interview on sic'em yesterday and thought it was good, though I would say that he's less optimistic today about getting a deal done soon than he was a few days ago.

The Big XII doesn't have a "$30m media" deal either. Regardless, not sure what that has to do with my statement WHATSOEVER. It's the same old same old "national conference" crap that infects those looking right outside the main movers and shakers.

Clearly there is a money threshold, beyond which you achieve stability as a "national conference". $2m doesn't get you there. $75m does, assuming the B1G knows what they're doing. $30m is pretty close to the median of those 2. And Cincy, UCF, BYU, and WV clearly think that it's enough to convince them to travel a lot more.

The big 12 doesn't have a "$30m media" deal? Technically, they have a much greater than $30m media for a couple more years, and if they don't sign a new deal until their early window opens in 16 months they'll still be in great shape. By several accounts, they're close to $30m on a 3 years early renegotiation in which the networks have every reason to lowball them.

This is another one of your useless attempts to argue an opinion. Did you do the research on inflation based on the year? How about the increasing value of live sports, diversity of broadcasts?

Stop being a clown and take it for what it is: this is the same old tired dialogue that’s been going on since the 90’s.

It hasn't been going on for me since the 90's, if you've been talking about it that long then good for you though.

Didn't you predict that they'd have a $25m media deal? Why argue over a few million bucks that wont start appearing until 2025 at the earliest?

You seem to be really invested in a weak big 12. I, however, do not care one bit for the big 12, the pac, or the ACC, other than how they impact they SEC. I'm just looking at all of the information currently available and giving my thoughts on what that means.

Wait a minute, are you worried that the big 12 will become so strong as to poach some ACC schools in the distant future? I applaud your long-term viewpoint, but question your motivations regarding this topic.

No, I just don’t think it will happen. We’ve been hearing about a national conference for years. I said it wouldn’t happen when it was AAC vs MWC. What dog did I have in that fight?

(10-26-2022 12:46 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  IMO, Yormark’s comments about “going national” will not go over well with most B12 university presidents.

I seriously doubt Yormark is saying anything that the member university's haven't approved of or agree with. Who do you think hired him in the first place?

(10-26-2022 01:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 09:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  Ah, the original C-USA Virus has now infected the Big XII. We've seen it mutate and matriculate from C-USA to the Big East—it killed its host almost immediately—to the Aresco strain in the AAC. Now it seems to be in its Yormark phase in the Big XII. Keen eyes of science, pay attention!

Lol. Odd take. The CUSA plan---which is actually to take the best schools available---regardless of location---has actually been a winning strategy (outperforming the "stay regional" option)---with one caveat---it works well until the quality of the distant school is little different that the quality of the nearby schools. At that point, its no longer worth the downside of an over sized footprint when the nearby schools are nearly as good as the distant potential addition. Both the early version of CUSA and the original AAC both were very successful large footprint experiments--especially the AAC that vastly exceeded most everyone's expectations.

Taking the 4-corners would likely accomplish what Yormark is shooting for---a 16 team league that has around 20% of its inventory in the eastern time zone, 50% of its inventory in the central time zone, and 30% of its inventory in the Mountain and Pacific western time zones. Thats a pretty good split without its schools having to deal with regularly traveling go all the way to the Pacific coast.

It's also odd to compare CUSA and their football/hoops brands with the B12. Apples and oranges. Known brands with eyeballs and fan interest and ESPN/FOX supporting is what helps to drive a "national conference." Also, the Big East wasn't broken up because of this. It fell apart because the C7 hoops schools and the football first schools were at odds with the vision and direction of the conference. It didn't help matters that the Big East was also at the bottom of the money pile and this contributed to the defections to the ACC, B12 and B1G.

(10-26-2022 02:44 PM)surrealpirate Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 12:46 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  IMO, Yormark’s comments about “going national” will not go over well with most B12 university presidents.

I seriously doubt Yormark is saying anything that the member university's haven't approved of or agree with. Who do you think hired him in the first place?

Yep. Considering what a concern being stuck in G5 was for some of the old guard, I can imagine they view this as their way of maintaining their seat at the big kids' table while future-proofing for any further expansion ambitions from the SEC and B1G.

(10-26-2022 03:07 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 01:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 09:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  Ah, the original C-USA Virus has now infected the Big XII. We've seen it mutate and matriculate from C-USA to the Big East—it killed its host almost immediately—to the Aresco strain in the AAC. Now it seems to be in its Yormark phase in the Big XII. Keen eyes of science, pay attention!

Lol. Odd take. The CUSA plan---which is actually to take the best schools available---regardless of location---has actually been a winning strategy (outperforming the "stay regional" option)---with one caveat---it works well until the quality of the distant school is little different that the quality of the nearby schools. At that point, its no longer worth the downside of an over sized footprint when the nearby schools are nearly as good as the distant potential addition. Both the early version of CUSA and the original AAC both were very successful large footprint experiments--especially the AAC that vastly exceeded most everyone's expectations.

Taking the 4-corners would likely accomplish what Yormark is shooting for---a 16 team league that has around 20% of its inventory in the eastern time zone, 50% of its inventory in the central time zone, and 30% of its inventory in the Mountain and Pacific western time zones. Thats a pretty good split without its schools having to deal with regularly traveling go all the way to the Pacific coast.

It's also odd to compare CUSA and their football/hoops brands with the B12. Apples and oranges. Known brands with eyeballs and fan interest and ESPN/FOX supporting is what helps to drive a "national conference." Also, the Big East wasn't broken up because of this. It fell apart because the C7 hoops schools and the football first schools were at odds with the vision and direction of the conference. It didn't help matters that the Big East was also at the bottom of the money pile and this contributed to the defections to the ACC, B12 and B1G.

I actually wasnt the one who chose the CUSA-Big12 comparison. "Esayem" did. My post was literally a response to his post claiming the Big12 had contracted the CUSA virus. All I was stating was that the "best available schools regardless of the large footprint" concept that CUSA was using actually works pretty well as long as the quality of the school remains substantially higher than it would be if the same conference simply selected from the nearby available schools within a much more compact footprint.

Interview Today at UCF:
- desire to be National conference and add teams that are additive
- UCF is very Brand focused and incredible marketing, wants to bring those lessons to the other Big 12 members
- Thinks hosting events in Orlando, FL will bring our conference to the international marketplace
- Likes that UCF is a young fan base, wants the conference to be younger
- New members are very additive to the "Continuing 8"
- Congratulated UCF on successful Volleyball and Women's Soccer teams
- Optimistic CFP Expansion getting done sooner than later
- Supports UCF Space uniforms from a brand perspective
- UCF is a big part of the Big 12 brand getting younger and hipper
- NIL needs uniformity and a national standard, supports student athletes rights but NIL needs some tweaking
- We don't have to expand, only if its additive.
- "As much as I think about expansion, I also very happy where we are today. If a year from now its just the 12. That's great. No problem with that at all."
- July 2023 will be the reveal of rebranding and the new Big 12 with help from an outside creative agency.

(10-26-2022 03:07 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 01:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 09:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  Ah, the original C-USA Virus has now infected the Big XII. We've seen it mutate and matriculate from C-USA to the Big East—it killed its host almost immediately—to the Aresco strain in the AAC. Now it seems to be in its Yormark phase in the Big XII. Keen eyes of science, pay attention!

Lol. Odd take. The CUSA plan---which is actually to take the best schools available---regardless of location---has actually been a winning strategy (outperforming the "stay regional" option)---with one caveat---it works well until the quality of the distant school is little different that the quality of the nearby schools. At that point, its no longer worth the downside of an over sized footprint when the nearby schools are nearly as good as the distant potential addition. Both the early version of CUSA and the original AAC both were very successful large footprint experiments--especially the AAC that vastly exceeded most everyone's expectations.

Taking the 4-corners would likely accomplish what Yormark is shooting for---a 16 team league that has around 20% of its inventory in the eastern time zone, 50% of its inventory in the central time zone, and 30% of its inventory in the Mountain and Pacific western time zones. Thats a pretty good split without its schools having to deal with regularly traveling go all the way to the Pacific coast.

It's also odd to compare CUSA and their football/hoops brands with the B12. Apples and oranges. Known brands with eyeballs and fan interest and ESPN/FOX supporting is what helps to drive a "national conference." Also, the Big East wasn't broken up because of this. It fell apart because the C7 hoops schools and the football first schools were at odds with the vision and direction of the conference. It didn't help matters that the Big East was also at the bottom of the money pile and this contributed to the defections to the ACC, B12 and B1G.

I wasn’t comparing the talent level, just the concept. Obviously this is the best collection of natty conference programs.

C-USA was just the beginning of the idea that still exists, putting disparate pieces together with a national identity: Conference United States of America.

The Big XII is a handful of SWC schools, a dollop of Big 8, mix in a little WAC, etc. and it’s the recipe for a national conference!



* I might have to retire from the board. I read people defending me! Oh, how me old heart warms!

There are no successful "national" college-level conferences. There never have been. It might work, but it is definitely an experimental and unproven model.

(10-26-2022 01:07 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 12:46 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  The B1G can go “national” because it has state-flagships with massive enrollments and prestigious research reputations. Possibly, the ACC could try to go “national” because it has a lot of elite universities that purposely compete nationally for students.

Name one school the ACC would accept that'd sign John Swofford's GoR?

That's easy.

Here's 4

Cin, UCF, WV, Memphis

Let's see: stability; with a long term espn media deal; regional footprint; past matchups/rivals; and oh look, Notre Dame; etc etc.

And they each say yes in a heartbeat, regardless of whether FSU continues as a member or not.

(10-26-2022 04:06 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 01:07 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 12:46 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  The B1G can go “national” because it has state-flagships with massive enrollments and prestigious research reputations. Possibly, the ACC could try to go “national” because it has a lot of elite universities that purposely compete nationally for students.

Name one school the ACC would accept that'd sign John Swofford's GoR?

That's easy.

Here's 4

Cin, UCF, WV, Memphis

Let's see: stability; with a long term espn media deal; regional footprint; past matchups/rivals; and oh look, Notre Dame; etc etc.

And they each say yes in a heartbeat, regardless of whether FSU continues as a member or not.

If WVU was a school the ACC would accept, they would already be in the ACC.

(10-26-2022 04:06 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 01:07 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  Name one school the ACC would accept that'd sign John Swofford's GoR?

That's easy.

Here's 4

Cin, UCF, WV, Memphis

Let's see: stability; with a long term espn media deal; regional footprint; past matchups/rivals; and oh look, Notre Dame; etc etc.

And they each say yes in a heartbeat, regardless of whether FSU continues as a member or not.

Not sure the ACC would accept Memphis, although Jim Phillips seems desperate for anything that could be passed off as good news ("Hear ye, Hear ye! The ACC has signed with FishBait Solutions!")

So, yeah, Memphis. Maybe.

But why would Cincinnati, UCF and WVU leave the BigXII for an ACC where somewhere around half of the league's members have Super Two options the moment a friendly judge helps them wriggle out from underneath John Swofford's GoR.

ACC stability is based in large part on key members agreeing to accept an annual $50M media rights shortfall — year after year after year — as opposed to working to find an exit from a dying conference.

(10-26-2022 04:37 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 04:06 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 01:07 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  Name one school the ACC would accept that'd sign John Swofford's GoR?

That's easy.

Here's 4

Cin, UCF, WV, Memphis

Let's see: stability; with a long term espn media deal; regional footprint; past matchups/rivals; and oh look, Notre Dame; etc etc.

And they each say yes in a heartbeat, regardless of whether FSU continues as a member or not.

Not sure the ACC would accept Memphis, although Jim Phillips seems desperate for anything that could be passed off as good news ("Hear ye, Hear ye! The ACC has signed with FishBait Solutions!")

So, yeah, Memphis. Maybe.

But why would Cincinnati, UCF and WVU leave the BigXII for an ACC where somewhere around half of the league's members have Super Two options the moment a friendly judge helps them wriggle out from underneath John Swofford's GoR.

ACC stability is based in large part on key members agreeing to accept an annual $50M media rights shortfall — year after year after year — as opposed to working to find an exit from a dying conference.

First of all, even if I accepted your premise (which, with respect, I'm not sure that I do) that there is a more than 50% chance that the SEC and Big10 may take most of the ACC schools south of VA in the near future, I think all 4 of those incoming schools still say yes..

But, while it's fun to talk about re-arranging deckchairs like that, I don't think that's going to happen unless circumstances dramatically change (which pf course they could). P-level conferences for the last few decades typically only add schools in singles or pairs.

So you can pick whatever 4 schools to leave the ACC (with the caveat that ND isn't leaving to join B10 or SEC), and those incoming 4 are still a "yes" to join the ACC.

As for WV - that's all about timing and circumstances, and what's available.

And I'd argue that, with media having expanded beyond the big 3 ota network channels, that the scales have tipped slightly towards adding schools for marketable content. ACC needs to not be left behind. And WV's rivalry with Pitt (and others) is marketable, and a boon to any media deal - nationwide. So local metro area really is less of a factor than forum posters seem to want to say it is.

And adding those 4 lets them go back to espn and have a conversation. yes, espn wants to keep them on the cheap - but espn also wants to keep them. and upping the outlay, even a little, especially with gaining an increase of content which including long-term nationally-known, marketable rivalries, is helpful to espn, and it's growing monopolies of the east coast and SE corner of the US.

(10-26-2022 03:21 PM)Claw Wrote:  There are no successful "national" college-level conferences. There never have been. It might work, but it is definitely an experimental and unproven model.

B1G is a national conference that has made a ton of money doing so. The regional identity left with the Maryland and Rutgers add, and continue with UCLA/USC.

As long as the money is there, I see national conferences as better viability for any and every conference. As a money-making entity, you want national interest above regional interest. I see the world expanding with first, the creation of internet, and now, the growth of social media as a new modernization. In society, I see a breaking away of hyper-regionalism, and that is shown in college football as well, with schools who have came together that are not regionally appropriate because they have similar goals.

(10-26-2022 05:00 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  So you can pick whatever 4 schools to leave the ACC (with the caveat that ND isn't leaving to join B10 or SEC), and those incoming 4 are still a "yes" to join the ACC.

So let's say the SEC (for Round 1) takes Clemson, FSU, UNC and UVA.

That means with no further changes, the Bearcats, Knights and Mountaineers would be weighing these two options

Big XII: Baylor, BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas, K- State, Okla. State, TCU, Texas Tech, UCF, WVU

or

ACC: BC, Cincinnati, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, NC State, Pitt, Syracuse, UCF, VT, Wake, WVU and *ND

One certainly can make the case — particularly for travel/geography reasons — that the ACC better fits the three Big XII schools deciding whether or not to change leagues.

The ACC's problem, though, lies in both optics and reality.

The moment Clem/FSU/UNC/UVA announce they're leaving, the ACC will be stumbling toward its deathbed. It's gonna be just like the Pac-12 is right now — every school out for itself trying to find its best landing spot while the commissioner shifts into Baghdad Bob "all is well" mode.

What school wants to join a conference like that?

(10-26-2022 11:54 AM)esayem Wrote:  Ever bend the English language to the will of your ink pen, er computer keyboard?

Speaking of which—there's a term from barbecue latitudes.

(10-26-2022 05:25 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 05:00 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  So you can pick whatever 4 schools to leave the ACC (with the caveat that ND isn't leaving to join B10 or SEC), and those incoming 4 are still a "yes" to join the ACC.

So let's say the SEC (for Round 1) takes Clemson, FSU, UNC and UVA.

That means with no further changes, the Bearcats, Knights and Mountaineers would be weighing these two options

Big XII: Baylor, BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, Iowa State, Kansas, K- State, Okla. State, TCU, Texas Tech, UCF, WVU

or

ACC: BC, Cincinnati, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Memphis, Miami, NC State, Pitt, Syracuse, UCF, VT, Wake, WVU and *ND

One certainly can make the case — particularly for travel/geography reasons — that the ACC better fits the three Big XII schools deciding whether or not to change leagues.

The ACC's problem, though, lies in both optics and reality.

The moment the Clem/FSU/UNC/UVA announce they're leaving, the ACC will be stumbling toward its deathbed. It's gonna be just like the Pac-12 is right now — every school out for itself trying to find its best landing spot while the commissioner shifts into Baghdad Bob "all is well" mode.

What school wants to join a conference like that?

you mean compared to the leftovers of the PAC and B12 trying to eke out a deal - after the big 10 poaches them again? all things being equal, local regionalism wins. saving on travel costs plus restoring rivalries? yes, still accept in a heartbeat

(10-26-2022 03:19 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 03:07 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 01:05 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 09:00 AM)esayem Wrote:  Ah, the original C-USA Virus has now infected the Big XII. We've seen it mutate and matriculate from C-USA to the Big East—it killed its host almost immediately—to the Aresco strain in the AAC. Now it seems to be in its Yormark phase in the Big XII. Keen eyes of science, pay attention!

Lol. Odd take. The CUSA plan---which is actually to take the best schools available---regardless of location---has actually been a winning strategy (outperforming the "stay regional" option)---with one caveat---it works well until the quality of the distant school is little different that the quality of the nearby schools. At that point, its no longer worth the downside of an over sized footprint when the nearby schools are nearly as good as the distant potential addition. Both the early version of CUSA and the original AAC both were very successful large footprint experiments--especially the AAC that vastly exceeded most everyone's expectations.

Taking the 4-corners would likely accomplish what Yormark is shooting for---a 16 team league that has around 20% of its inventory in the eastern time zone, 50% of its inventory in the central time zone, and 30% of its inventory in the Mountain and Pacific western time zones. Thats a pretty good split without its schools having to deal with regularly traveling go all the way to the Pacific coast.

It's also odd to compare CUSA and their football/hoops brands with the B12. Apples and oranges. Known brands with eyeballs and fan interest and ESPN/FOX supporting is what helps to drive a "national conference." Also, the Big East wasn't broken up because of this. It fell apart because the C7 hoops schools and the football first schools were at odds with the vision and direction of the conference. It didn't help matters that the Big East was also at the bottom of the money pile and this contributed to the defections to the ACC, B12 and B1G.

I wasn’t comparing the talent level, just the concept. Obviously this is the best collection of natty conference programs.

C-USA was just the beginning of the idea that still exists, putting disparate pieces together with a national identity: Conference United States of America.

The Big XII is a handful of SWC schools, a dollop of Big 8, mix in a little WAC, etc. and it’s the recipe for a national conference!

* I might have to retire from the board. I read people defending me! Oh, how me old heart warms!

I guess that was sort of my point. Yormark and Warren are being told by media types that it is no longer necessary to fit within a tight, incremental geographic window. Brands and access to markets with eyeballs/streaming numbers are driving the bus now. Top brands visible in all time zones are desired. The B1G will stretch from New Jersey to California. The Big 12 from West Virginia/Florida to Utah. These Conference Commissioners aren't making these moves in a vacuum. They are having discussions/negotiations with TV powers for a reason - networks foot the bill. Also, there was talk at one time of some P12 schools jumping ship to the ACC. I don't remember any pushback from posters regarding that potential "national conference footprint" scenario. The point is CUSA can't survive as a disparate collection of schools because, with all due respect, no one cares on a national level about watching those programs on TV - let alone the fact they have two-thirds empty stadiums for games.

(10-26-2022 02:44 PM)surrealpirate Wrote:  

(10-26-2022 12:46 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  IMO, Yormark’s comments about “going national” will not go over well with most B12 university presidents.

I seriously doubt Yormark is saying anything that the member university's haven't approved of or agree with. Who do you think hired him in the first place?

Oh, no doubt that they hired him and may even provide public “support”. He’s only 90 days into his tenure, which likely has a long-term (5 year) contract.

Regardless, the interests of diverse universities are much more complex than at for-profit Brooklyn Nets and Roc Nation. IMO, it seems naive to believe that a CEO and Board members must be perfectly aligned. Yormark is in a honeymoon phase, so he has leeway to make bold statements. “Going national” just doesn’t seem like a winner.

(10-26-2022 05:43 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  ....
Yormark is in a honeymoon phase, so he has leeway to make bold statements. “Going national” just doesn’t seem like a winner.

Agree. Unless a P2 conference says it, 'going national' sounds desperate. It sounds like celebratizing a policy of casting about anywhere for anybody you can add.

In saying this Yormark probably intends to shape perceptions of which league is out front in the race to be the Best of the Rest conference.