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(12-30-2022 09:10 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 12:04 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(12-29-2022 10:23 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  I believe it's about half that number actually, and the vast majority is in the form of military and humanitarian aid packages, not a "blank check" like some far right conspiracists would have you believe.

The US is offloading outdated equipment that is being phased out anyway, and Ukraine desperately needs equipment. A perfect match. And Ukraine is using that equipment to bring one of the United States' chief geopolitical foes to its knees. That's a win-win-win.

And it's being done without putting a single American service-member in danger. So a win-win-win-win. Oh, and for a fraction of the cost of our annual military budget...is that pentuple win??

This administration is putting on a masterclass in international relations and geopolitics. Never thought I'd say that. Russia neutered, NATO solidified and expanded, message sent to China in case they get uppity about Taiwan. All in a day's work!

Well said

Afghanistan

Biden administration got us out of that hellhole. No more American lives being lost in a well-intentioned but futile undertaking.

(12-30-2022 09:10 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 12:04 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(12-29-2022 10:23 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  I believe it's about half that number actually, and the vast majority is in the form of military and humanitarian aid packages, not a "blank check" like some far right conspiracists would have you believe.

The US is offloading outdated equipment that is being phased out anyway, and Ukraine desperately needs equipment. A perfect match. And Ukraine is using that equipment to bring one of the United States' chief geopolitical foes to its knees. That's a win-win-win.

And it's being done without putting a single American service-member in danger. So a win-win-win-win. Oh, and for a fraction of the cost of our annual military budget...is that pentuple win??

This administration is putting on a masterclass in international relations and geopolitics. Never thought I'd say that. Russia neutered, NATO solidified and expanded, message sent to China in case they get uppity about Taiwan. All in a day's work!

Well said

Afghanistan

We had to leave eventually, and Trump forced the current administration's hand by negotiating with terrorists and laying out an timetable. What a dumb thing to do. "Hey, we're leaving by this date, so that's when y'all can just come back and take over the country"

But you knew all that, didn't you?

(12-30-2022 11:18 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 09:10 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 12:04 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(12-29-2022 10:23 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  I believe it's about half that number actually, and the vast majority is in the form of military and humanitarian aid packages, not a "blank check" like some far right conspiracists would have you believe.

The US is offloading outdated equipment that is being phased out anyway, and Ukraine desperately needs equipment. A perfect match. And Ukraine is using that equipment to bring one of the United States' chief geopolitical foes to its knees. That's a win-win-win.

And it's being done without putting a single American service-member in danger. So a win-win-win-win. Oh, and for a fraction of the cost of our annual military budget...is that pentuple win??

This administration is putting on a masterclass in international relations and geopolitics. Never thought I'd say that. Russia neutered, NATO solidified and expanded, message sent to China in case they get uppity about Taiwan. All in a day's work!

Well said

Afghanistan

We had to leave eventually, and Trump forced the current administration's hand by negotiating with terrorists and laying out an timetable. What a dumb thing to do. "Hey, we're leaving by this date, so that's when y'all can just come back and take over the country"

But you knew all that, didn't you?

I understand your feelings here.

My perspective is we spent a couple decades there with immense cost in blood and treasure.
At some point we transitioned our desire for kicking butt into nation building. We supposedly trained and equipped that” Built” nation with all they best stuff, bases, container ships of cash, etc.
Presumably the Afghan’s were then ready to demonstrate whose side they were on.
Guess what. The date came and within hours they turned tail and ran, leaving all the equipment and treasure to the Taliban, and melted away into the shadows.
So what is the point here. It’s not that the Taliban knew we were leaving. Trump negotiated the date with them. The point is the Afghans gave not the first **** about protecting their own country.
Compare and contrast with Ukraine.

(12-30-2022 11:53 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 11:18 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 09:10 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 12:04 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(12-29-2022 10:23 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  I believe it's about half that number actually, and the vast majority is in the form of military and humanitarian aid packages, not a "blank check" like some far right conspiracists would have you believe.

The US is offloading outdated equipment that is being phased out anyway, and Ukraine desperately needs equipment. A perfect match. And Ukraine is using that equipment to bring one of the United States' chief geopolitical foes to its knees. That's a win-win-win.

And it's being done without putting a single American service-member in danger. So a win-win-win-win. Oh, and for a fraction of the cost of our annual military budget...is that pentuple win??

This administration is putting on a masterclass in international relations and geopolitics. Never thought I'd say that. Russia neutered, NATO solidified and expanded, message sent to China in case they get uppity about Taiwan. All in a day's work!

Well said

Afghanistan

We had to leave eventually, and Trump forced the current administration's hand by negotiating with terrorists and laying out an timetable. What a dumb thing to do. "Hey, we're leaving by this date, so that's when y'all can just come back and take over the country"

But you knew all that, didn't you?

I understand your feelings here.

My perspective is we spent a couple decades there with immense cost in blood and treasure.
At some point we transitioned our desire for kicking butt into nation building. We supposedly trained and equipped that” Built” nation with all they best stuff, bases, container ships of cash, etc.
Presumably the Afghan’s were then ready to demonstrate whose side they were on.
Guess what. The date came and within hours they turned tail and ran, leaving all the equipment and treasure to the Taliban, and melted away into the shadows.
So what is the point here. It’s not that the Taliban knew we were leaving. Trump negotiated the date with them. The point is the Afghans gave not the first **** about protecting their own country.
Compare and contrast with Ukraine.

I am well aware of the pointless endeavor of nation building in a broken country. I spent a year in that place. They are an impoverished, uneducated people that are more loyal to their tribe/family than to a manufactured nation with made up borders. It was always going to be like this. That's my point. The Taliban were just waiting us out, they already knew the outcome. So this thing had to end eventually, and Biden had to take that bullet. The "end" was always going to be a messy debacle and whoever was president at the time would take all the flak of the last 20 years of BS. Biden isn't any more or less at fault than any other US politician in that timeframe.

The pullout could have been better of course. But we also could have been preparing for an endgame for the last 20 years. It's actually amazing that the pullout wasn't even worse. It's a very messy situation that can't be boiled down to "it's this one person's fault". I wrote down a lot of my thoughts about Afghanistan last year when we pulled out. I think I posted them in this forum if you'd like to read them. I go into why the nation building failed, why the Afghan military lost so quickly after we left, and why the whole thing was such a confusing mess right from the start.

(12-30-2022 12:27 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 11:53 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 11:18 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 09:10 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 12:04 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  Well said

Afghanistan

We had to leave eventually, and Trump forced the current administration's hand by negotiating with terrorists and laying out an timetable. What a dumb thing to do. "Hey, we're leaving by this date, so that's when y'all can just come back and take over the country"

But you knew all that, didn't you?

I understand your feelings here.

My perspective is we spent a couple decades there with immense cost in blood and treasure.
At some point we transitioned our desire for kicking butt into nation building. We supposedly trained and equipped that” Built” nation with all they best stuff, bases, container ships of cash, etc.
Presumably the Afghan’s were then ready to demonstrate whose side they were on.
Guess what. The date came and within hours they turned tail and ran, leaving all the equipment and treasure to the Taliban, and melted away into the shadows.
So what is the point here. It’s not that the Taliban knew we were leaving. Trump negotiated the date with them. The point is the Afghans gave not the first **** about protecting their own country.
Compare and contrast with Ukraine.

I am well aware of the pointless endeavor of nation building in a broken country. I spent a year in that place. They are an impoverished, uneducated people that are more loyal to their tribe/family than to a manufactured nation with made up borders. It was always going to be like this. That's my point. The Taliban were just waiting us out, they already knew the outcome. So this thing had to end eventually, and Biden had to take that bullet. The "end" was always going to be a messy debacle and whoever was president at the time would take all the flak of the last 20 years of BS. Biden isn't any more or less at fault than any other US politician in that timeframe.

The pullout could have been better of course. But we also could have been preparing for an endgame for the last 20 years. It's actually amazing that the pullout wasn't even worse. It's a very messy situation that can't be boiled down to "it's this one person's fault". I wrote down a lot of my thoughts about Afghanistan last year when we pulled out. I think I posted them in this forum if you'd like to read them. I go into why the nation building failed, why the Afghan military lost so quickly after we left, and why the whole thing was such a confusing mess right from the start.

First, thanks for your service.

I will never ever fault those on the line. What happened at the airport is not any troops fault. They were brave and did their best with a mucked up situation.

(12-30-2022 09:10 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(12-30-2022 12:04 AM)Charm City Bronco Wrote:  

(12-29-2022 10:23 PM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  I believe it's about half that number actually, and the vast majority is in the form of military and humanitarian aid packages, not a "blank check" like some far right conspiracists would have you believe.

The US is offloading outdated equipment that is being phased out anyway, and Ukraine desperately needs equipment. A perfect match. And Ukraine is using that equipment to bring one of the United States' chief geopolitical foes to its knees. That's a win-win-win.

And it's being done without putting a single American service-member in danger. So a win-win-win-win. Oh, and for a fraction of the cost of our annual military budget...is that pentuple win??

This administration is putting on a masterclass in international relations and geopolitics. Never thought I'd say that. Russia neutered, NATO solidified and expanded, message sent to China in case they get uppity about Taiwan. All in a day's work!

Well said

Afghanistan

Presumably you wanted us to stay in Afghanistan forever. Trump had 4 years to get us out of Afghanistan and didn't. You can't seriously think that a president that is not even willing to read intelligence summaries - or anything, for that matter - would plan a successful withdrawal from Afghanistan? That would have been even worse - but Trump never would have done it because job one - and the only job for Trump - is trying to boost his own ego.