This guy seems pretty plugged in on the pac side and seems to be pushing this idea.How would you feel about a full merger?

Jackson

I think you want to merge, merge with the ACC, not the PAC.

I'd take a full merger with the PAC 12 over losing teams to the PAC 12. But, the analysis is probably more favorable to expand with the 5 or 6 best brands and locations rather than bringing on all 10 PAC schools.

Stanford, Washington, Oregon, Arizona State, and Colorado would deliver all of the key PAC brands and markets to the Big 12. A Coast-to-Coast network that delivers the Bay Area, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, Phoenix, Seattle, Denver, Orlando, Portland, Salt Lake City, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Des Moines etc, has great potential.

More in-depth analysis is needed to determine whether Utah, Cal, or Arizona add value or deserve a spot.

Utah would help to fully deliver the SLC and Utah markets to the conference and brings a great rivalry game with BYU.

Cal might more fully deliver the Bay Area market and penetrate more into California and brings a ho-hum rivalry game with Stanford...and may be an OOC rivalry game with UCLA?

Arizona would help to fully deliver the Phoenix and Arizona markets to the conference and brings the decent(?) rivalry game with ASU.

Do these schools have WAR value such that it's worth to double-dip in their market?

??

Exhaust all options in first just getting the top candidates, but hard to argue as likely whichever conference is first in either a) Able to steal members from other 2 conferences or b) Complete a full merger will likely solidify as the number 3 conference.

3 options be first, smarter, or cheat. SMU and A&M aren’t in here so let’s not cheat. Let’s try to be smarter for time being but if that don’t work being first usually wins the prize in such a scenario.

it is a dumb idea

too many teams, too many dissimilar goals

too many chances for each conference group to try and hold their position as the power brokers in the new conference more specifically UW and Oregon that everyone knows have one foot dangling out the door hoping to jump off.......and then the Stanford, Cal, UW and little brothers that will pull the academic snobbery that hampered the PAC 12 for a long time and that is well past over with in the new conference landscape

too much dead weight.....sorry WSU, sorry Oregon State, Cal the academics are great, your athletics suck and your facilities and debt load are in shambles bye, CU you suck too no need for hanger on ers

right now is a time to be decisive not to behave like a G5 conference just hoping to continue to exist by adding warm bodies (the Big 12 has already made that mistake once and made the mistake of "looking into that" a few other times)

the time is now to build a conference that has stability and not tons of internal issues even if there might be a few short term consequences of that (perhaps a VERY SLIGHTLY lower payout) for not taking a couple of teams that would be on the next bus out or that would provide instability talking about jumping ship at every turn

in addition to even get those programs you almost certainly have to bring in their little brothers, their "support programs" that will fall in line with them while falling in line to suck on the field and suck up media money and media slots.....not worth it

Texas and OU and USC and UCLA and their new conferences did not make their moves for anything related to academics (nor did those conferences and others make those moves a decade ago)

there has been no massive improvement in research funding for Nebraska in the Big 10 nor academic standing (in fact one could make the argument they ignored the AAU for a decade and moved to the Big 10 like it was the most important decision their university has ever made)

there has also not been a massive amount of growth in research for CU over the past decade or more as compared to a number of schools in the Big 12.....it was larger, but not by a lot and there are tons of factors that could play into that.....in the case of NU well several similar Big 12 schools grew their research faster than NU has in the Big 10

so the idea of associating athletically for academic gains is massively overrated and all the more so when those schools you want to attach to academically will want nothing to do with that......time to let that failed idea die....and time to build a conference that is cohesive with similar goals (even if everyone knows that they would jump if given the chance) instead of just packing in masses of crap and trying to brute force numbers and cling to past (failed) measures of conference or athletic/academic value

the Big 12 has no business adding failed "conference leaders" that are still too stupid to see their failures, looking to an ATHLETICS conference for academic prestige, or diverting course to pick up dead weight just to have a larger collection of do nothing struggle buddies

This Wilner guy was touting the P12/ACC "loose partnership" alliance and the P12's future viability just days ago. What happened? LOL. He's been a P12 apologist and knows things aren't good. I don't see a full merger with a conference on the ropes. The B12 IMO is in a better position of strength and with our new commish at the helm I fully believe and expect he will use that to the conference's advantage.

(07-13-2022 04:37 PM)Claw Wrote:  I think you want to merge, merge with the ACC, not the PAC.

No you dont. Right now the ACC deal is still competitive-----but it has another 14 years to run. Inflation is currently running 9%. You dont want to be in a long term deal right now.

A full merger with the Pac12 is not my favorite idea---but it does have some advantages. We'd get our own conference network---and it might actually start making money with a substantially larger more populated footprint. The merger would also largely control almost all of the P5 content west of the Mississippi. Thats simply too much content and too many fan bases to ignore. It virtually guarantees the networks will want the Pac12/B12 merged conference will be part of any post season the B10/SEC design. Finally, a conference with recruiting grounds in Florida, Texas, and California is always going to be able to field competitive talent.

(07-13-2022 04:34 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  This guy seems pretty plugged in on the pac side and seems to be pushing this idea.How would you feel about a full merger?

Jackson

No

(07-13-2022 06:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-13-2022 04:37 PM)Claw Wrote:  I think you want to merge, merge with the ACC, not the PAC.

No you dont. Right now the ACC deal is still competitive-----but it has another 14 years to run. Inflation is currently running 9%. You dont want to be in a long term deal right now.

A full merger with the Pac12 is not my favorite idea---but it does have some advantages. We'd get our own conference network---and it might actually start making money with a substantially larger more populated footprint. The merger would also largely control almost all of the P5 content west of the Mississippi.

Not a geography major, but I'm pretty sure USC, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Iowa, Arkansas, LSU are west of the mississippi river.

One could say the above programs represent "almost all of the popular p5(lol...its not 2007) content west of the mississippi" and that would be a much more accurate statement than yours.

(07-13-2022 06:35 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(07-13-2022 04:37 PM)Claw Wrote:  I think you want to merge, merge with the ACC, not the PAC.

No you dont. Right now the ACC deal is still competitive-----but it has another 14 years to run. Inflation is currently running 9%. You dont want to be in a long term deal right now.

A full merger with the Pac12 is not my favorite idea---but it does have some advantages. We'd get our own conference network---and it might actually start making money with a substantially larger more populated footprint. The merger would also largely control almost all of the P5 content west of the Mississippi. Thats simply too much content and too many fan bases to ignore. It virtually guarantees the networks will want the Pac12/B12 merged conference will be part of any post season the B10/SEC design. Finally, a conference with recruiting grounds in Florida, Texas, and California is always going to be able to field competitive talent.

this is a horribly failed idea that has proven to be such

1. ESPN offered the PAC 12 ZERO DOLLARS and ZERO CENTS to take over the PAC12n because they knew that content was simply not wanted....the market has spoken loudly and clearly........NO ONE called their cable company to demand the PAC12n

and the idea that teams in "markets" actually deliver those fans is G5 move up thinking......news flash tilly managed to barely get uH into the Big 12 so now you are in start acting like it instead of using the same failed G5 to P5 aspirant talking points of "let us in and we will show you" or....." "our fans" will show up to the stajium to see GOOD TEAMS" <- uh news flash YOUR FANS would show up no matter what......waiting for "good teams" to come play indicates they are fans of something other than the team in the home stajium

the failed concept of "have to compete with pro sports" is just more nonsense

2. conferences have SPOKEN.....they do not give a crap about Cal, Stanford, Colorado or for that matter UW and Oregon or AU and ASU

that does not mean SOME of those teams and their "markets" would not be a benefit to the Big 12 especially if the Big 12 was smart enough to leave those that compete in academics more than athletics and those that collect checks behind along with a couple of programs that have hired 100% of the hookers that Missouri used to send to Big 10 board meetings to try and get in the Big 10


there is no "mass of markets" that makes a conference network a success or that makes media partners simply start tossing cash at a conference filled with teams that were just left behind......that is G5 thinking where the goal is simply to be the best of the leftovers and to try and brute force your way to that (which seems to have failed the AAC and was a bad idea for the MWC back when they lost TCU and Utah and responded by adding the rest of the WAC (that they had abandoned years before specifically to get better and it worked)

no program in the Big 12, PAC 12 or any conference that might end up in a similar position (ACC) is going to just add warm bodies and "markets" and then get paid for that collection of meh......all while telling media partners "look at the mass if disinterested residents we have in all the areas where our programs are located now pay us"

if that was remotely how it worked the SEC SEC SEC would have fallen apart a decade ago or longer

but how it works is media partners want programs that have fans that actually show up to games and that demand their team be on top networks....they do not want a bunch of "hey look warm bodies with TVs pay us"

I’d prefer we not take the pacific 6. They will only destabilize the conference.
No more than 3 mtz (to make a pod with byu).
Maybe 1 east (to make another pod of 4)

Thus probably no to a merger if we can just take 3.

Absolutely no reason to do a merger. We can take anywhere from 2-6 of the top value programs and be in a great position.

Brief mention of a merger from an Arizona news outlet

Jackson

(07-13-2022 04:34 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  

This guy seems pretty plugged in on the pac side and seems to be pushing this idea.How would you feel about a full merger?

Jackson

I think the eventual reality will be a merger of all 3 conferences.....ACC, Big 12, and PAC into one coast to coast league split into 3 conferences.....

EAST
Cincinnati
Louisville
West Virginia
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
Miami
UCF
USF
and one of ECU, Temple or UAB

MIDWEST
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
BYU
Utah
Baylor
Houston
Texas Tech
Texas Christian
SMU
Memphis

WEST
Oregon
Oregon State
Washington
Washington State
Stanford
Cal-Berkeley
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado
Colorado State
San Diego State
and one from UNLV, Boise State, New Mexico, Utah State

Of course due to academic mission reasons it's possible Stanford and Cal-Berkeley would not pursue this.....but that is my vision of the future, or something very similar.

Only merge if necessary. I'd rather take four teams. Arizona, Utah, Colorado and Arizona St. Then that would force Oregon and Washington to make a move. The only possibility would be the Big 10. If the Big10 says they are not interested then the Big12 would be the next opportunity. The ACC G.O.R would make it too costly financially to add anyone. Even taking just 2 teams from the PAC would completely cause more teams to jump to the Big12 imo. If Yormark can put together some financial numbers that show that there is a significant increase in payout over the Pac and ACC then they most likely will jump if the Big 10 stands pat.

I’m not to crazy about it “full merger”

RENTING Oregon, Washington and Stanford is NOT what The BIG12 needs right now, imho.

This is where Yormark will make his mark here.

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I'd prefer it to losing schools, but otherwise hate the idea. I really just want the Big 12 to talk the four corners schools and leave the west coast schools out. That way we have 16 and can pick off ACC schools later when they get raided.

I would be ok with a full blown merger, Though I think it would be a bit tough with 22 schools. I would love to see B12 add to 4 or 6 instead. I think Az schools Col, and Utah would be perfect footprint and # wise.

Going to 16 allows for 4 pods of 4, yielding a 9 games conference schedule: 3 2 2 2
Make a scheduling alliance easier with the B1G and or SEC (there is minimal geography overlap)
And still allow a g5 game